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Brujeria

UTC (or Benedict Arnold or whatever he's calling himself these days) often alludes to brujeria. He posits the idea that a cheating husband, caught in flagrante delicto, can claim that witchcraft 'made him do it'. And such is a Colombiana's regard for the supernatural order, that she considers hubby a victim of some irresistible bewitchment and not the philandering hound the evidence suggests.

Spiffing wheeze, eh chaps?

But my question is, has anyone of your acquaintance ever tried this dodge and actually got away with it? Perhaps some of you bold lads have actually done so yourselves...

Solo curiosidad.

By kalder on Oct 4, 2007, 12:08 in Friendly Talkzone.

LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:13:

YES.
My friend said that it was down to an ex girlfriend of her current man having fotos of him and doing witchcraft to make him "enfermo" for the ex, apparently he was rendered helpless.

Also a costeña friends husband was unwittingly given "agua de cho** at " and was also rendered helpless and became her love slave, only because of the brujeria though, nothing to do with him at all.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:15:

jajajajaj Monita that was fun jajajajajajajaja

LOL

Elección no canonización....

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:16:

Gabo the worst thing is that I had to keep a straight face.

HOWEVER I do believe in brujeria, don't you?

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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kalder says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:19:

How interesting Mona. Thank you.

I would ask Señora Kalder. But, well, I doubt it'd be the wisest subject to broach with one's spouse...

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:21:

I do have respect for it, the fact that scientist can't explain something does not mean that ir doesn't exist...

for example, brazilian witchcraft.... mis respetos!!!

Elección no canonización....

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lpdiver says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:21:

My doc just recently gave me some medicine with side effects. Sleep driving and having sex while sleeping and not recalling the events are listed side effects!!!

t

"cook some rice!"

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kalder says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:22:

"Monita that was fun"

God, you're not the 'costeña friends husband' are you gabolicious?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:23:

Ja! Gabo african withcraft? Dejelo quieto!

Un caleño me dijo una vez que no enamoraria a una costeña por temor a que terminaran mal y ella lo jodiera con la brujeria.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:28:

LOL Kalder noooooo I am not!!!

LOL

"One of my aunts believes that a bruja cuased her Divorce...she doesnt seem to think it had anything to do with the fact that her X was 5 years younger than her..." esanch.... maybe another bruja maybe 5 years younger than her cause her divorce...

=D

Elección no canonización....

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:32:

Esanch 5 years is nothing, I know plenty of men with older women and they feel lucky.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:32:

Oh ok point taken.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:32:

oh so it was another bruja 10 years younger than your aunt... jajajaja

Elección no canonización....

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:33:

Bruja inmunda jaja

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:34:

jajajajajaja a veces mi paisa dice eso.....

jajajajajajaja

Elección no canonización....

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:36:

a mi se me hace Monita que yo soy tu marido el que viaja, que tu vives en bogota... y que tu y yo estamos casados

jajajajajaja

=D

Elección no canonización....

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:39:

Gabo sera? Pues tu y el son tan distintos que me parece imposible!
Es que tu paisa es una bacana como yo ;-)

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:41:

super bacana!!! por eso estoy enamorado... oh sera que me habrá hecho brujería??? jajajajajaja

Elección no canonización....

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:47:

esanch I know alot of women who are in their late forties and turn heads wherever they go.
too bad about your aunt, lo que no es para uno..

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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gabolicious says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:49:

esanch she can hire another bruja in order to bring back her X

Elección no canonización....

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lpdiver says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:51:

esanch...lots of plastic surgeons in colombia...

t

"cook some rice!"

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 4, 2007, 12:54:

LOL Ipdiver jaja yes they can do miracles jaja

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capitan_centella says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:00:

brujería?. . .

Thank god i´m a Budhist¡

;-)

"When you open your eyes, you turn around with the world, But it can change, if you only close it, and see a dream to yourself." Me.

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lpdiver says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:01:

well maybe that explains why my wife isn't as interested in relocating to colombia as I am. Of course she does have a lot of relative that have expressed interest...

t

"cook some rice!"

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eywed says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:05:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:09:

Listen IP and eywed, if your women go to Colombia, you should both watch out too, there is plenty to choose from for a woman too, take it from me.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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lpdiver says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:11:

IA_MONA it is LLLLLLP. I am not in the market. Neither is my wife to my knowledge.

t

"cook some rice!"

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eywed says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:11:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:14:

IP sorry what is LLL...?
Please don't take what I said too seriously, I am not talking about who is on the market..

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:15:

jajaj, esanch that depends of the woman and how she look after herself and her attitute, i have a friend and he is 25 his wife is 45 and he is besotted with her, and he is a good looking guy. but he said she is fun to be with

i think depends the relationship if it become boring well i won't blame the both of them looking for someone else usually men look for younger models to feel "young" omen tend to look for mature guys.

i never feel threaten in Colombia but i do know some Colombian friends that don't let her gringo husband out of side.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:17:

but I agree mona, good looking guys there too. so why men need to have all the fun

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:18:

Alot of guys over there have a thing for married women, oh and here too actually jaja

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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eywed says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:19:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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lpdiver says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:19:

LA_MONA perhaps the name is fitting jk. MY name is LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPDIVER not IIIIIIIIIPDIVER. Seems as LLLLLLLLLA_MONA and not IIIIIIIIIIIIIA_MONA you would have gotten it. All in good fun.

t

"cook some rice!"

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:19:

tell me about it!!!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:22:

oops lpdiver i also though it was an i instead of an L and how long i know you from pbh? and i just find out jeje

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lpdiver says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:23:

kat1...tienes rubio pelos tambien?

t

"cook some rice!"

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LA_MONA says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:24:

Oooppss sorry LLLLP driver jaja

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 4, 2007, 13:27:

nooo, but come on lpdiver tell me the difference between I (i) upper case and l ( L) in lower case)

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manINred says on Oct 4, 2007, 19:18:

Kalder-

Perhaps my line of thought is controversial, but here I go:

To answer your original question, I have come to several conclusions on tendencies in Colombian society after witnessing and experiencing the cultural goings-on and every-day life in Antioquia, specifically Medellin. Women to some extent are still subordinate to men in many ways and this parallels the lingering 'machista' element that unfortunately pervades most latin american society. Many women will overlook most occasions of cheating, not exclusively instances occuring in a 'brujeria' setting. They do so because of a psychological incapacity to stand up to it and a cultural tendency to overlook it, perhaps embracing it as something that happens with their men who are 'incapable' of preventing it. Perhaps it is more a willingness to forgive and search for the best in their male 'soulmate', 'lifepartner' (whatever you want to call it) or perhaps it is instead the insecurity of potentially being without her husband after a furious spat. Perhaps it is a mixture of both. I do not know the causes, but I do notice that it is culturally accepted in Colombia to a much greater extent than in England and Canada, and it is overlooked, forgiven, and forgotten much more easily than anywhere else I have been.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 4, 2007, 19:28:

I was seeing this girl one time in Colombia. Taking a page from the UTC playbook, I tried calling her a bruja and kept asking her, jokingly, "what sort of brujería is this?". At first she was slightly pissed off. I called her "mija" and explained I thought this was short for "mi bruja" and not "mi hija". I found out that her birthday was on Hallowe'en. When we went to Juan Valdez Café and she ordered the Nevado Wicao, I explained what "Wicao" meant in English. I saw plenty of her brujería that week. ;)

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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lpdiver says on Oct 4, 2007, 19:30:

As a woman you should relate to the period!

t

"cook some rice!"

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Man Tequila says on Oct 4, 2007, 19:33:

Jaja. When Kat1 is done with you you'll be lucky if you have a semi-colon after making your point. Sum people don't care for those sort of commants.

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kalder says on Oct 5, 2007, 00:40:

Your reasoning is more than plausible manINred.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

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Man Tequila says on Oct 5, 2007, 09:44:

There is a great discussion of adultery in Jared Diamond's book "The Third Chimpanzee". But maninred's views are rather paternalistic, even though I agree with them to some extent. Mathematically, the same number of men and women have to be cheating for extramartial (heterosexual) relationships, it is not just men who cheat innocent women who are clueless as to what is going on. Indeed, women in Colombia can be more aggressive chasing men than in many other countries I have seen. Even when married, although this is not my personal style. Many Spanish countries have the stereotype of doting mother and macho husband with mistress, not just Colombia. If Clinton had been President of France, no one would have cared about Monica Lewinsky.

Brujería may give power to women who feel they need leverage in a machista society. Some cultural acceptance of cheating is definitely there. Psychological inability to address the problem would vary among individual women but would probably be less of a problem than the insecurity of being without a partner and the relationship with the family given the stigma of divorce. I do not think Colombian women are weak or particularly happy about their husbands sleeping around. Brujería maybe a convenient excuse for all involved but I think UC is likely overemphasizing how much stock people place in it.

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lpdiver says on Oct 5, 2007, 09:50:

MT...precisely! Who the heck are all the men cheating with.

t

"cook some rice!"

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eywed says on Oct 5, 2007, 11:04:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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manINred says on Oct 5, 2007, 11:50:

"Mathematically, the same number of men and women have to be cheating for extramartial (heterosexual) relationships, it is not just men who cheat innocent women who are clueless as to what is going on."

While I agree with what you wrote Man Tequila, I disagree with this. Theoretically you do not need to have mathematically the same number of men as women cheating on each other extramaritally. There are many unmarried naive young girls and prostitutes and single women who will bed cheating husbands. Obviously the dice can be rolled the other way, women can and do cheat on their husbands in Colombia, as you pointed out. Either way, it would be interesting to see the statistical data.

My experience was women cheating on men generally wasn't the case, and the overwhelming 'victims' of cheating were women. Most of my male friends (with VERY few exceptions) would actually brag to me about cheating.

I would never want to paint the women of Colombia as weak, doting women. To clarify: the fact that I know many colombian women to be strong, intelligent and level-headed makes me even more incredulous as to how and why they allow cheating, when I see the amount damage it causes them.

I do not mean to be paternalistic nor patronizing in my series of observations, but indeed due to the nature of the observations I'm afraid that's how it may come out.

Eyewed, are you Colombian? Your views are interesting, but I'm afraid that I do not agree with them at all (in fact in Colombia, I know your insinuation that all colombians cheat false) but it does help demonstrate a cultural acceptance of cheating by passing it off as human nature, again, something to which I disagree with.

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manINred says on Oct 5, 2007, 11:53:

And to add, interestingly enough, cheating girlfriends have been much more aggressive in 'bagging' me here in Canada than they have in Colombia, not that i'm anything worth 'bagging', mind you :)

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eywed says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:00:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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eywed says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:09:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:09:

It's the same everywhere "Jim" here in the UK infidelity is at an all time high, most cases of meeting someone at work.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:15:

In which country?
I find that extremely hard to believe.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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eywed says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:15:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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lpdiver says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:19:

Jim Bridger...I nominate Soul Man over your cheating heart..."WHo was making love to your old lady while you were out making love?"

t

"cook some rice!"

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:21:

None of that in my company Jim ;-)

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:22:

Any links? Jeez between you and Utopia, I'm out of my depth here.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:24:

Jaja peso I always know its you when fog and james bond references are made, how are you old chap?

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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Man Tequila says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:25:

I don't get out to a lot of cockfights, so UC may have a point. My exposure to brujería is limited. But I did make a point of asking Colombians about it, mainly since I wanted to see how they reacted. I was surprised that plenty of educated people did seem to take it quite seriously, though most told me the "problem" was worse in Venezuela, Brazil and the coastal parts of Colombia (implying, but not saying directly, that this might be due to the Afro element. This could be true, but racism and regionalism might also be playing their part).

While ManInRed's explanation makes sense, I would point out:

- Cheating by women in Colombian society is not broadly accepted, and would thus be more discreet. The women I know who do cheat rarely brag about it, certainly not to people they do not know extremely well. Colombian men would be far more likely to brag about it, even if it was not actually occurring. The fact Colombian men tell ManInRed about their adventures means little to me.

- Saying single women and prostitutes "cheat" with married men is common in Colombia. This point of view traditionally places the blame entirely on the man and holds the woman or prostitute blameless. Many times the single woman is actively pursuing the married guy and in my view should not be absolved of all responsibility. The prostitutes I have talked to in Colombia largely seemed to already have kids and feel they were pushed into that life due to the pressures of single parenthood and the expenses of children, which may be true -- although most others in similar situations do not succumb to this way of thinking. I do not know if these prostitutes were or are, in fact married, or their circumstances. So it's hard for me to say. I have not talked to that many prostitutes, I guess.

I may not be worth bagging either, but have found Colombian women slightly more aggressive than Canadian women. I also think many Colombian women are FAR less naive than they sometimes would have you believe.

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eywed says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:31:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:32:

Peso no worries, and many thanks. I did find those statistics very hard to believe mind you.
Hope your family is well too.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:33:

So you like Vallenato too?

Man T good observations there.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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eywed says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:34:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Man Tequila says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:41:

I'm fairly good at reading and writing Spanish (and trying to get better). My spoken Spanish is improving by leaps and bounds, and I can understand much of what people say to me. I can usually understand what I see on TV. When people sing, however, it is harder to understand. I can inderstand a well-articulated song, like "Que bonita es esta vida". Octavio Mesa or Buena Vista Social Club is harder (they like their slang), a few Colombians sing with the clarity of Bob Dylan or Ozzy Osbourne...

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:44:

I have noticed that Man T, your spanish is doing great and no doubt you recent trip there has helped alot, did you understand the vallenato I sent you?

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:46:

mona i though you were out pub crawling hehehe

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:50:

Cos it's friday night? I don't go to pubs, I 'm not into cigarrette smoke...unless it's a cuntry pub of course. Hold on there's a no smoking law now isn't there? Well I'm still not into pubs...

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:52:

but there is a ban in the UK now for smoking in pubs....

i usually go out saturdays, fridays can be pretty quiet here

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:53:

well here they are all country pubs, quite nice actually

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 13:55:

Kat I have turned into a granny I'm just not into going out anymore, home seems like the best place to be, how boring of me ;-)

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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msaucey says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:05:

Mona does this mean you're going to have another celebration at home with some haagen-dazs?

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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Man Tequila says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:08:

Thanks for the Vallenato, Mona, yes I did understand and enjoy that a lot. I have lost a few people very special to me and this song brought back some bittersweet memories. I hope other people here might enjoy it too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlHpZjOKLpA

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:20:

Glad you liked it ManT, makes me very sentimental too.

MSaucey baileys flavour tonight jaja can't remeber if it's female or a male flavour, I think it's female jaja

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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Man Tequila says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:21:

(Mi primer amor was a wonderful person who went on to do much international charitable work. She died at a very tender age, when a plane crashed into the mountains. God rest your soul, querida.)

"ay amor mío, ay mía,
en mí todo ese fuego se repite,
en mí nada se apaga ni se olvida,
mi amor se nutre de tu amor, amada,
y mientras vivas estará en tus brazos
sin salir de los míos."

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:28:

OMG!! Man T you poor darling! OK well I'll have more mercy next time I'm tempted to send you a cortarse las venas vallenato then, que en paz descanse.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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msaucey says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:37:

Very Tragic MT....

Mona... Have you ever tried Tequila Rose...?... If you come across it, you should try it... It's like tequila for the girls....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:38:

I haven't... is it a haagen daaz flavour? jaja

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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msaucey says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:42:

Nope..... That would be more like rum raisin ice cream....

It's a strawberry cream liquer with a splash of tequila..... It's yummy....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:43:

Msaucey don't get me going, please! Sounds yummy alright mm

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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manINred says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:47:

Eyewed, I do not need to walk in your shoes to understand the 'real world'. Our expereinces are varied, and add very differently to our individual understandings of this world. I have lived in 3 continents and grew up with several very different cultures, and I certainly do not get my impressions of the 'real' world from a 'college class'.

While cheating is widespread in Canada and Europe (the developed world), is it is widespread, rampant, and culturally accepted as it is in Colombia? The answer is no. That is all I was saying, and trying to put some reason behind my observation.

In response to Man Tequila (and Eyewed): I enjoy discussion with you, well-reasoned, non-confrontational, logically coherent, and there's an overall level of decency to your writing, thank you.

Man Tequila, I do believe we differ one key point of moral standing. When it comes to cheating, it is my firm belief that the person who is in a commited relationship has the moral obligation not to cheat (o sea not to kiss, have sex with, or engage in intimate activity socially reserved for couples). That onus is not on the person who is single (therein lies our difference of opinion). A man or woman can say no. It is as simple as that. If I am a single man and sparks fly with a girl, would I care if she has a boyfriend? No. I wouldn't (and haven't). Why should I? a) Her personal life, at least during my initial encounters with her, is none of my business and b) it's her perogative if she wants to pursue me, or engage in something romantic that I am pursuing. There is perhaps partial exception my stance if a woman (or man) is actively and maliciously trying to break up a family. But even then, unless physical force or blackmail is used, the man (or woman) can simply say NO.

Now to all of you, I must dismiss your concerns about my naivety. I understand that women are much more reserved in opening up to me about their cheating affairs. I understand that people lie. I do not take into consideration people's accounts of fidelity who I don't trust or know well (unless I speak to someone who I know well and trust who knows them well and tells me about them). The only people who I bother using as a basis for judgement are my close friends, and what they tell me about their own experiences and those of their friends. Indeed I have encountered women who cheat, women who will cheat on their husbands for other men, etc..., but evenso I do not think that it is as common as men who actively engage in cheating. I am also sure that men tolerate cheating much less in Colombia than women in Colombia do. I also stand by the reasoning and speculation of my original line of thought on this topic, which is lost somewhere above in this thread.

"many Colombian women are FAR less naive than they sometimes would have you believe"
This is very, very true, and more and more I find that it is true not just of Colombian women, but of people around the world!

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msaucey says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:48:

I like their catch phrase...

http://mccormickdistilling.com/tr/

The naughty and nice.....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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manINred says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:51:

"I may not be worth bagging either,"

Don't be humble now, I'm sure that's not the case :)

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LA_MONA says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:56:

"But even then, unless physical force or blackmail is used, the man (or woman) can simply say NO."

ManlRed excellent point too, this is what I try and tell my girlfriends who think that it's a girls fault or get upset with the woman who has an affair with their guy, it's HIS fault not hers, she couldn't care less.

ManlRed Man Tequila is a catch if there ever was one, he's lovely through and through and a Doc for christ sakes.

Msaucey what's with that new pic? Jaja

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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manINred says on Oct 5, 2007, 14:58:

Let me also make known this.

I learned the hard way when I first went to Colombia about lying and stealing and confiding in people who 'no vale la pena'. I returned later on to Colombia with a much greater understanding of the people and culture, and with this new perspective in mind, I had a much more enjoyable time, and was able to make observations on a completely different level than when I first went there. My observations are therefore not baseless, in fact very very valid, because I have several levels of comparison with which to make them and a much more intrinsic understanding of the country, as many other people who write here do also.

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manINred says on Oct 5, 2007, 15:09:

Thanks La Mona! I have found the exact same thing to my very close amigas! I try telling them that of course it perhaps wasn't right of the girl to go with the guy, but the blame must lie mostly with the cheating boyfriend. It's almost as if by blaming the girl, the novio gets excused, and the upset girl can rationalize that it is therefore not his fault and he will be a good boy as long as the evil girl doesn't get him. Terrible reasoning, in my humble opinion.

"Man Tequila is a catch if there ever was one"
And there you go, right from the horse's mouth!

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Robert Jorge says on Oct 5, 2007, 16:17:

The periods of time when I was single, between the age mid 20s to now; if it hadn't been for married or involved women, I would have had some long dry streaks. What I am saying is, I was single, had nothing to worry about, but the women that I seemed to attract for some reason were "taken." So, I have experienced cheating quite a bit - but I was the "other person" and the cheater was the woman. I am not saying it was right, but it didn't and hasn't bothered my conscious. I figured it was their problem, not mine. I was horny and single with nothing to lose.

Off topic a little, but an observation: If you are involved with, dating, engaged, or married - especially to an attractive person, some women can be much more aggressive at trying to get you in bed, or the bathroom, parking lot, etc. I don't know if this is a US phenomenon, but the US is the only country this has happened to me ... I lied, I just remembered a couple of instances where this happened in Colombia.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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eywed says on Oct 5, 2007, 19:19:

Ay Hombe!!!!!

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Serious_Jo says on Oct 5, 2007, 19:37:

I don't understand that either. One time I ask a lady whose husband keeps cheating on her, why is she mad at the other women and keeps forgiving the husband. She tells me that she cannot give hard time to her husband cause she wants to keep him and he is a good father and provider. So instead, she turns her anger against the bitches who want to steal such a good husband from her. And on the other hand, "she is so sure her husband loves her, despite the long list of lovers and one-night stands". I really don't get it.

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Man Tequila says on Oct 5, 2007, 19:58:

I was in no way implying that married men who succumb to prostitutes or single women do not share the bulk of the blame -- they should indeed value and protect their established relationship. What I am saying is that relationships are sometimes frail and ephemeral and that sometimes good people fail, make poor decisions, or are at times vulnerable. I do not think this always makes good people bad. Brujería does not make sense to my scientific mind. The North American "system" of losing everything and destroying a family over a brief and regrettable mistake also makes little sense to me, frankly, though I respect fidelity. There is a cost to rigid social values, but also a cost when they are too loose. What I am saying is that blame is not all-or-nothing, not a zero-sum game. That it is not out of the question that the man might bear only 80% (say) of the blame for a given case. I am a humanitarian but meet few perfect people. That said, I sometimes have dry spells. Though single, I do turn down the married women who hit on me -- though flattering, it also says something unflattering about that person's values. I do disagree that a single person knowingly involved with a married couple (though not a casual boyfriend) is blameless, though the geneticists and Darwinists tell me otherwise. I do not judge others for making lapses of judgement and I despose hypocrisy.

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manINred says on Oct 6, 2007, 11:34:

"The North American "system" of losing everything and destroying a family over a brief and regrettable mistake also makes little sense to me"

I wouldn't say that's exactly a system we have in North America. I agree with you though, people make mistakes, and people can make up for those mistakes. It woudl be highly regrettable to not give someone a second chance after the stupidity of a one-night fling. It is idiocy, because people can and do change for the better. I would be very cautious in awarding a third chance upon a second infraction, but again, depending on circumstance, perhaps it is warranted. Third time out, because it's proof that a leopard doesn't change its spots.

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lpdiver says on Oct 6, 2007, 11:53:

manINred...just remember for every instance of being caught they did the big nasty over three hundred time with out being caught.

t

"cook some rice!"

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manINred says on Oct 6, 2007, 12:03:

haha, yes, perhaps! one of the reasons I hate generalizing is because every individual person and circumstance merits its own unique solution!

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LA_MONA says on Oct 6, 2007, 12:17:

You have good points to consider MlR but I don't think its idiotic to show someone the door if they are unfathful, if you know the relationship won't be the same..even if you forgive them you may not be able to forget and so to be fair to youself and also to the person who cheated maybe it would be best to move on. That is what that "stupidity" can cause and people know it full well when they are unfaithful.

However it depends on the circumstances like distance and other factors that maybe one could consider contributed to giving in to tempation.

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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LA_MONA says on Oct 6, 2007, 12:22:

By the way you are a very patient guy!
Don't ever say that to a woman that you'd forgive her up to 3 times jaja

Para volar, es preciso tener resistencia. -M.Lin

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slguy says on Oct 6, 2007, 12:49:

I'm amused by all the psychobabble about brujeria.

It's simple - easier to blame infidelity on bullchit than to admit he/she screwed someone else, until you get tired of making excuses. Then it's not your fault, not their fault- it the fault of the bruja. Everbody wins! jajajajajajjaa

What a silly load of crap.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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manINred says on Oct 6, 2007, 14:13:

If you had bothered reading some of the discussion slyguy instead of rudely (and ignorantly) passing it off as a silly load of crap, you would have noticed that some of us concluded that blaming the 'third party' is indeed the easy way out.

You're right La Mona, what I meant to say was it is idiotic to show someone the door without assessing the situation first. If it's just a kiss, that's different from sex, etc...!

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lpdiver says on Oct 6, 2007, 15:41:

manINred...that right I believe president Clinton established that a blow job is not sex.

t

"cook some rice!"

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slguy says on Oct 6, 2007, 16:07:

maninred,

was not my intention to insult you, or anyone else. If you feel insulted, I am truly sorry.,

And I DID read the whole thread. What do you think prompted my comment? ;)

What I tried to say was- couch this "brujeria" thing in whatever sociological, psychological, psychiatric terms you want to. It's still only the easy way to forgive bad behavior, and put the blame for this behavior anywhere except where it belongs.

BTW, maninred, just because a guy calls a turd a turd doesn't make him "ignorant" - any more than calling folks names when you have zero idea exactly how smart they are, does.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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manINred says on Oct 7, 2007, 00:56:

ahh good slyguy, then we are in agreement then! I jus thought you were being deliberately agravating by trying to detract from our conversation by passing it off as bullshit, which i don't think it is.

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goin_south says on Oct 7, 2007, 01:19:

I think he was.
I think it is.
But, I also think it (the idea of blaming things on brujeria) is terribly amusing.

Which is what this thread is about,...the amusement.... I think.

Where do we go from here?

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john_stark says on Oct 7, 2007, 09:33:

I am a "firm" believer in la brujeria. Every time my sister-in-law bends over in those tight jeans.

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lpdiver says on Oct 7, 2007, 09:39:

dayum cowboy I forgot to find out where she lives so I could go on a sight seeing trip while in the area...although the was still plenty to see.

And I am sure you are always stocking the bottom shelf in the fridge with her favorite items!

t

"cook some rice!"

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Man Tequila says on Oct 7, 2007, 10:33:

My good gal got a mojo, she's trying to keep it hid
But Georgia Bill got something to find that mojo with
I said she got that mojo, and she won't let me see
And every time I start to love her, she's tried to put them jinx on me.

Well she shakes it like the Central, she wobbles like the L and N
Well she's a hotshot mama, and I'm scared to tell her where I been
Said my baby got something, she won't tell her daddy what it is
But when I crawls into my bed, I just can't keep my black stuff still

-- Scarey Day Blues, Blind Willie McTell

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john_stark says on Oct 7, 2007, 11:03:

Yeah those old bluesmen, they knew all about la brujeria.

There's always a lot to see in Medellin, Tony. I like to ride in a cab with the window open and my head out with my tongue hanging out like a dog. Arf! Arf!

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lpdiver says on Oct 7, 2007, 11:21:

I've never been in a cab in Medellin with the window up...unless it was raining.

t

"cook some rice!"

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slguy says on Oct 9, 2007, 00:37:

The Duck's correct.

But- so as not to ruffle anyone's feathers ;), it's the practice I'm amused by, not the analysis.

Maybe it's just jealousy on my part. More than once, I could have used such a handy excuse! For some reason, no one ever bought my "The devil made me do it" line of crap. Next time, I'll try the "Bruja" line, instead....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 9, 2007, 02:41:

Brujeria El Gran combo de puerto rico. my favourite salsa group. the best!!!!

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