PBH / colombia (active forums more▼ | travelguide | pictures) / post

Bold Nicolas Sarkozy/Luis Eladio Pérez plan to free hostages

Many of the finer details are not available yet, but some information has been released or leaked to Argentina's El Clarín and to Paris Match. El Tiempo is updating its website with additional information right now.

Apparently former hostage Luis Eladio Pérez came up with the original idea and had previously said he would talk to Uribe, Chávez and Sarzoky. It has been developed further since then. Reportedly, FARC has already agreed with certain parts of the plan, but some details are not ready yet.

Apparently Uribe heard the initial proposal, and he has accepted to work on a legal framework to free guerrillas accused of crimes against humanity (I wonder if the "Justice and Peace" paras will demand similar treatment...?).

The known details include: No DMZ in Colombia, direct exchange between France and FARC in French Guyana or elsewhere, political asylum for some of the freed guerrilla leaders, and a different treatment for FARC as a whole if they stop kidnapping and using other terrorist methods,

This "different treatment", according to El Clarín, may include a removal from European terror lists, political asylum for the guerrillas in French soil, and a so-called "political recognition of FARC as a belligerent force".

The one issue that seems worrying is this one, precisely. Would FARC gain political recognition OR belligerent status? They are not one and the same, even if they are removed from terror lists. Some people equate both, but they are very different. That may be their aspiration, but only time will tell what actually happens...

Other than that...I wonder if this revelation is prudent at this time.
-----------------------

ES UNA INICIATIVA DE UN EX PRISIONERO DE LA GUERRILLA DE COLOMBIA QUE ENTUSIASMO AL PRESIDENTE FRANCES

Audaz plan de Sarkozy para que las FARC liberen a los rehenes

Ya hay detalles acordados con la guerrilla. Entregarían a Ingrid Betancourt y a los restantes cautivos en Martinica o en la Guyana francesa. A cambio liberarían a líderes rebeldes y Francia daría un trato diferente a la organización.
Por: María Laura Avignolo

Fuente: PARIS CORRESPONSAL
El presidente Nicolas Sarkozy organiza un plan para liberar a los rehenes en manos de la guerrilla de las Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia. Sería a cambio de rebeldes importantes detenidos, en un intercambio directo entre las FARC y Francia que podría realizarse en la Guyana Francesa o en Martinica, dos territorios franceses de ultramar.

El plan original pertenece al ex rehén y ex congresista colombiano Luis Eladio Pérez y se lo presentó al presidente francés en su despacho del Palacio del Eliseo. La estrategia está avanzada e incluso algunos aspectos fueron modificados por los franceses.

Pérez debe viajar mañana a Caracas y a Bogotá para entrevistarse con el presidente, Hugo Chávez y con Alvaro Uribe. El objetivo de las reuniones que serán durante la próxima semana es ultimar detalles que ya han sido acordados con la guerrilla.

Sarkozy estaría dispuesto a dar a las FARC un trato diferente si dejan de utilizar métodos terroristas, como los secuestros.

El ex legislador pasó seis años en poder de la guerrilla y fue el compañero de cautiverio de la ex candidata presidencial franco-colombiana Ingrid Betancourt, a quien vio desfalleciente y deprimida por última vez el 4 de febrero, antes de su liberación. En su testimonio relata que Ingrid está forzada a vivir con varios rehenes enfermos mentales, que se masturban y que los guerrilleros trataron de violarla.

En una entrevista con el semanario Paris Match, el ex congresista colombiano detalló el plan original y admitió que fue modificado en la última semana antes de su viaje a París, tras contar con la aprobación de las FARC. La guerrilla busca intercambiar 39 rehenes políticos, entre ellos Ingrid Betancourt y tres estadounidenses, contra la liberación de 500 guerrilleros prisioneros.

Pérez cree que la guerrilla está buscando una solución política, está convencido que Uribe "aceptará el plan. Francia va a jugar un rol crucial, pero debemos ser discretos", dijo Pérez. También cree que hay una voluntad de las FARC de negociar la liberación de los rehenes, "más allá de sus posiciones divergentes", cuya ala militar es hostil a una negociación política con Uribe.

Según fuentes que accedieron al plan, este incluye el reconocimiento político de las FARC como fuerza beligerante, la supresión de la guerrilla de la lista europea de organizaciones terroristas y una proposición de asilo de los guerrilleros liberados en territorio francés.

Pérez señaló que "por primera vez, pareciera que las FARC quieren avanzar políticamente.

No se le debe cerrar la puerta, como yo le he dicho al presidente Uribe, que parece haber entendido", declaró a Paris Match.

Pérez también advirtió en esa nota que "no se resolverá el problema militar mientras persistan los factores de la violencia como la miseria o la desigualdad".

El ex congresista lo que ha conseguido del mandatario colombiano es "inicialmente establecer un marco legal que permita la liberación de guerrilleros acusados de crímenes de lesa humanidad".

"Yo creo que él va a aceptar la voluntad política de reconocer a las FARC para permitir un acuerdo entre prisioneros de guerra, militares y policías contra guerrilleros", continuó Pérez.

Entonces, ¿en qué contexto serían liberados los rehenes civiles? "Estos rehenes, incluida Ingrid Betancourt, serán liberados como un gesto político de las FARC porque ellos no cambian civiles por militares", explicó.

Según Pérez, la famosa zona desmilitarizada que exigen las FARC debería ser evitada. Esa fue su propoción a Sarkozy: "Presidente Uribe, déme usted los guerrilleros encarcelados, los grandes, no los pequeños, los que interesan a las FARC. Nosotros haremos directamente el intercambio entre Francia y la guerrilla. No hay necesidad de zona desmilitarizada, ni necesidad -como lo pide Uribe- de que los guerrilleros juren sobre la Biblia que ellos no volverán al combate después de la liberación".

Entonces, si todo sale bien el intercambio sería en la Guyana Francesa -costa norte de América del Sur entre Brasil y Surinam- o en Martinica -una de las Antillas Menores del Caribe-. "Francia podría dar asilo a algunos de ellos, como Simón Trinidad", miembro del secretariado de las FARC preso en EE.UU., lo que facilitaría el triángulo Washington-París-Bogotá para avanzar en en la liberación. "La voluntad política está. Es necesario un poco de entusiasmo para que, en unos días, Ingrid esté con nosotros".

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2008/03/22/elmundo/i-03215.htm

By juancegomez on Mar 22, 2008, 17:52 in Politics & the war.

Sam Salmon says on Mar 22, 2008, 18:07:

" political asylum for the guerrillas in French soil"

Well they can have the bastards and the bastards can all rot in the Green Boring Hell that is French Guyana.

I wonder what the French electorate thinks of this?

In addition-anyone who thinks FARC is going to quit dealing dope/kidnapping and murdering has been out in the sun too long.

' a la orden!'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 22, 2008, 18:18:

As I've said before, what's best for the hostages is not always what's best for Colombia. This is definitely true in this case. I understand that Luis Eladio wants to help the hostages and I feel for him for the ordeal he went through. However, this plan has too high a cost for releasing the hostages. Besides, the plan is too convoluted and is bound to fail. Also, which hostages would be released? It seems like Sarkozy only cares about Ingrid anyway.

I'm so glad that Sarkozy is so willing to "treat the farc differently" if they promise to be good boys and not kidnap anybody or blow up small towns for a while. Before he proposes taking the farc off the terrorist lists and granting them belligerent status, he can lead by example and declare belligerent status for the hordes of young muslim thugs that terrorize the suburbs of Paris on a nightly basis. That makes about as much sense as doing it for the farc. By this logic, Al Queda would be eligible for belligerent status. Maybe ETA can join in the fun as well. Too bad Algerian terrorists aren't still operating in France. We could sign them up as well.

If the farc are ever granted belligerent status, the first thing they would do is declare all military, police and politician hostages as legitimate prisoners of war. Chavez and all his ladies in waiting would become more bold and open about helping "the bolivarian revolution". We should do everything possible to gain the release of the hostages as long as it isn't detrimental to the overall wellbeing and safety of Colombia and its people. This plan is not the right solution.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 22, 2008, 19:15:

39 against 500, 39 first class hostages freed and the others can stay in hell...
Would it happen the same in the US? Would it happen the same in France or Germany? I don't think so. This is Colombia, the rich are always more important than the others, so who cares?

It is hard for a family member of a forgotten second class hostage to not have evil thoughts. A chance to see the good old AUC back on work again. A great percentage of Colombians would surely help.

As a foreigner, I can say that I would be ashamed of my own country accepting to propose something like this. Can Uribe accept something like this?

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

0 funny, 0 helpful.

durito says on Mar 22, 2008, 19:18:

I don't believe the President of France has any ability to singlehandedly remove a group from the EU's terrorist list, and I doubt the rest of Europe will go along.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Mar 23, 2008, 03:55:

"It is a shit argument." "Better you shut up." buggy

You are such a nice little boy! And such an educated and sophisticated vocabulary.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 23, 2008, 07:07:

Buggy, you are so full of shit you can't even put together a coherent argument. First, you say that the muslim youths rioted a WHOLE TWO YEARS AGO. I guess since they are only shooting at cops now and burning police stations (late November 2007 and earlier this month) instead of burning cars, the problem is solved in your eyes. Do you hang out in the banlieues? Just last week, French police conducted raids to round up muslim thugs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7300408.stm

Then you state that the Algerian terrorists are still operating in France because of an action TWELVE YEARS AGO. You are so determined to make a point that you don't even make sense. By your logic, something that happened two years ago (and continues to have effects) is not relevant to French security issues, while something that happened twelve years ago is.

I see that my comments hit a nerve. It isn't so nice when foreigners make light of the violence in your country, is it? Now you see how we feel when you offer your asinine opinions about the security situation in Colombia. Everything that spews from your small mind is a "shit argument".

BTW, I'm really scared that you told me to shut up. Since you call us para sympathizers, I guess I better run to the Aguilas Negras for protection.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rikito says on Mar 23, 2008, 07:39:

Hey Buggy...Happy Easter!

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:10:

I think the Government of France should put up a multi-billion dollar escrow account as a sort of "bail" for the FARC scumbags they're considering freeing and the leadership to whom they're considering offering asylum. Each time one of these characters "backslides" and commits a crime, the people of Colombia get to keep another cool Billion as reparations.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:11:

"At least you say where your sympathy goes."
My sympathy surely does not go to the one who only care about the rich and forget about the poor people in the name of a fake humanitarian proposal. Yes, not to people like your president.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:29:

... yet you keep posting Cassini

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:30:

.

Robi...........are those real leather gloves you are wearing in this picture...?.

.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:30:

"My sympathy does not go to Sarkozy but I support those who make something for the freedom of the hostages ALIVE."

Why don't they put out a proposal of 500 vs. 500, then? Why they keep forgetting about the others?
Because they only care about one, for their political hidden reasons. I told you before, I hope Ingrid will be the last being released, as it is normal for a leader go after the people he wants to lead.
The last one talking about everyone, it was the church and not the people that you were naming.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:36:

...
Why don't you talk about the post and not the person?
I never talked about you in a bad way, I always try to say you give a positive contribution to PBH, and that's the way it got.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:42:

Buggy......I have Robi's home address if you want it............

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:43:

Yes, give it to him... :-)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:46:

Ok, sorry about that, edited my post... let's keep it civil...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:47:

And Buggy................." buggy says

" You are a very little person with very little ideas."

This is a photo of Robi..........you are so right...........as always..

.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:49:

Still I can't see the "little ideas"... :)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:49:

They're to small to see.........

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 09:55:

So, cassini, tell us, why do those "noble" persons keep forgetting about the others?
Why is it always Ingrid, Ingrid and a few more?
Why are there first and second class hostages?
Why 39 vs. 500?
Why I never read anything anywhere about family members of the forgotten ones?
Why the family members of the forgotten ones do not make trips to Rome to see the major and the pope?
Why there is something in the air telling me that after Ingrid will be released mr. President will stop being so active?

Would it happen the same in the US? Would it happen the same in France or Germany? I don't think so. This is Colombia, the rich are always more important than the others, so who cares?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 10:21:

About what Juancegomez wrote..

"Apparently Uribe heard the initial proposal, and he has accepted to work on a legal framework to free guerrillas accused of crimes against humanity (I wonder if the "Justice and Peace" paras will demand similar treatment...?). "

That's a big point, in case none noticed it. How can Uribe accept it? Hard to tell.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 23, 2008, 11:31:

I am on the same line as Robi. I have said before that Sarkosky just cares about getting released Ingrid to him to boost his approval ratings.

Cassini, you don´t even live here, what do you know?

About what Juance said: I don´t think paras can object much. Paracos got a very sweet deal. After they´re done with they little stint, nobody is going to go after them, whereas demobilized Farianos... who knows. One has to remember that FARC and AUC are, most of the time, not very educated people, hence not forgiving. My impression is that people in Locombia see FARC as the root of all problems and a very large % of population see paras as a natural response to them.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 23, 2008, 11:44:

So you are CASSINI after all...
You should check what ID you are signed on as before you answer...

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 23, 2008, 11:47:

... but you living in France do ?

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 11:48:

Buggy,
I frankly see that your arguments defending or trying to deny the different treatment of rich and poor people in FARC hands are very weak, to say the least.

"Why is it always Ingrid, Ingrid and a few more?"
Because Ingrid has the french nationality and because France must care its citizens (like Italia with the journalist woman in Iraq or Afghanistan).

OK, you admit it then. Mr President just cares about her fate, whatever will happen to the others.

"Why 39 vs. 500?"
It was asked by the FARC and the colombian government did not say no to the assumption.

So, if FARC would ask 1 (Ingrid) vs. 500, you would still be justifying it by saying "FARC asked it"?

"Why I never read anything anywhere about family members of the forgotten ones?"
Do you know Gustavo Moncayo ? Did you see the hostages families in Plaza Bolivar ?
Why don't the colombian newspapers speak of them?

Of course I read about him.
The glamour given by the media to the forgotten ones is merely a fraction to the one given to the others. Mr president and his band follow the same line of action.

"Why the family members of the forgotten ones do not make trips to Rome to see the major and the pope?" Gustavo Moncayo made a long trip. But these travels need money ...

So, it is just a matter of money. We can pay for the trip, but you can be sure that the mother of a campesino won't get to happen the pope, anyway. Powerful families rule Colombia and the world, and you are accepting it.

Why there is something in the air telling me that after Ingrid will be released mr. President will stop being so active?" I think that the european countries will act for a peace process not only for release of hostages.

European countries have a great expertise in talking and nothing more. It is not their problem and they will do nothing more. Mr. President will help the FARC to earn political recognition if they release Ingrid.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 23, 2008, 14:53:

is he in your ignore list?

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 14:53:

Not at all... just Ray, of course. Did the Irish fu**er write anything on here?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:00:

Now, you guys, hold it right there!

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:00:

Hey, where is jack_jason? I cannot see his comment anymore and i did not put him on ignore... LOL

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:02:

I asked b/c he kept saying not so nice things, and with you writting in the thread and not saying anything seemed like he was in your ignore list.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:03:

I deleted his comment and yours too.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:06:

Are you talking about Ray or Jack_Jason? I never used the ignore button.
Ray is a good friend, we always fight each other on here, sometimes is funny, sometimes is not, but we try...

Jack_Jason is another story. I thought that he was just a stupid trolling around, but he posted some good lately. He has and hard on me for GIB. I don't care, whatever he writes on me, and he doesn't about what i do on him, fine for me.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:11:

Just ignore him.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:21:

Desi, do I ever talk to him without being named? Did you ever see it?
If you looked at it, there was a smile on my comment... and I believe jack was just joking too.
I think he had too much Marsala tonight, there are quite funny comments on other threads from him... LOL

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:27:

Now, since you are here... this bother me, because it was not expected and not from the people i was expecting it, and it is not a joke:

buggy says on Sunday March 23rd, 2008 9:33:
You are a very little person with very little ideas.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:27:

I'm not so sure....it didn't look like he was joking to me. Perhaps you know him better. I know you've been at it before...and I'm not letiing this rather interesting thread be ruined by some silly fighting.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:30:

I know you've been at it before... what do you mean Desi? I never talked about him unsolicited. Not once. And I never use offensive words if they do not do it with me, and even then, rarely.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:35:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall a past incident when you two guys were exchanging insults.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 15:46:

Since you asked, you are wrong, Never insulted him once.

I was copying and pasting his words around to let people know about it. It was about GIB. He said that he was my fiance. And said that me, Cassini and GIB used to sleep in the same bed.

You emailed and warned him to stop insulting people on this board. I've never asked for it, that time.

Ironically, it happened again when I emailed you that he had to stop insulting Cassini, the same guy that call me little man here in this thread. He was calling him "Stronzo", remember?
I emailed you because I think Cassini is the voice of the contrary and an important person on this board, but that constant insult against him was causing problem in the discussion. Cassini-Buggy do not know anything about this.

Then, you emailed me to tell me about it.
Do you want me to post it here? It is interesting stuff.

Now, frankly, if you were a good moderator, and after warning him twice (when he did the first thing about GIB and then for Cassini), you would have deleted his account, but still, you do your job with your style. Good.

I don't know, I can be wrong. I tell you, let him talk, he does not bother me at all. But defend the people who cares, Desi.

Ok, I just see that you deleted his comment calling a sonofabitch or something like that someone on another thread. What do you wait, Desi? Need more?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:15:

Robi......why do you like sleeping with Cassini and Gib..?

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:18:

Yes, I deleted another post of his. It was a kind of generic ad hominem attack at all bus drivers in London.

Whatever, we'll deal with him; it's our business. The same with buggy/cassini. At our time, in our way. There's several things that have to be taken into consideration when deleting people when there are no new inscriptions.

If you have any further comments on my moderation please send me a p.m...or even better, send Peter or Colombiche a p.m.

Cheers!

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:20:

"f you have any further comments on my moderation please send me a p.m...or even better, send Peter or Colombiche a p.m."

Cheers... I see that you take it in the wrong way, as always. Quite childish, but... ok.
Do not worry, you won't have any more email from me.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:31:

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME HE GOT WARNED
He was insulting GIB, Cassini and then myself, for taking a part in that...

Desideria says on Thursday January 31st, 2008 9:40:
Jack_jason, I've deleted your comment because it broke blatantly the rules we have for this forum. Please keep it civil.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

jack_jason says on Thursday January 31st, 2008 13:56:
Come on Desi, I did not name any PBHer, Does any of the names I wrote actually exist? the answer is not, and you know that. And do not tell me about being Civil, because 30% of what I have red in PBH web page is just disgusting. Then it is very hypocritical to delete my comment. May be you have not enough character to think by your self, and just follow the thoughts of some crybabies in PBH. I can pass all the night long coping and pasting all the comments that actually have broken PBH rules. But, may be you do not delete them because they are your mates, or because they have been crapping this web page for so long?. I do not give a tinny ass about the way people treat me in PBH or in any chat over the internet, If I cannot eat a sarcastic, or violent comments coming from any one in PBH or the WWW, what can I expect from me in the real life? If people in PBH who feel horribly treated by sarcastic or violent comments are not capable to overcome them, then they should not even to show up out side their houses because the world is not a web page, the world will really hart them, with out any sorry. And the guy who wrote about my comments should put the trousers on and show off a little bit of character and psychological strength. I like most of the people here, I like even Gringoinbogota, he probably knows that the www is full of %$£^&, all kind of people, good and bad. He fought back against me, so what, it is fine for me if he fights back, I do not feel terrible, I am not going to cry out or write a threat specially based on him letting every one know I am not capable to overcome his comments on me. I think I am not dealing with underage children instead, I think I am dealing with strong minded people. So Desi, come on, do not let your self be managed by some guys comments. Can you actually prove that the names I wrote actually exist in PBH?
This is just spanglish, please do not correct me

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:35:

TODAY, IT WAS THE THIRD.
A couple of unsolicited insults. I took mine as a joke, before Desi jumped on it.

Moderation on PBH? A joke.
Let us handle our problem Desi, better.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

DodgerDogs says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:48:

È gran pazzia lu cuntrastari cu du' nun pô vinciri né appattari... Si o No ?

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:49:

Cassini/Buggy immediately reverts to personal attacks. Since he is incapable of defending his nonsensical arguments, he threatens people, insults them and generally shows himself to be a pathetic troll. He never enters into a rational debate. When he told me I didn't know anything about French security problems, he didn't respond when I answered with facts. He just jumped on me for exactly quoting his comment about shit arguments. In any case, he is mildly entertaining in the way a dog is entertaining when they chase their tail incessantly. However, his entertainment value quickly fades and he just becomes an object of pity.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:51:

Verdad, DD... LOL It is just a lot of fun...
But, fuck... don't tell me that... nooooo.... incredible! LOL

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:54:

Robi, keep private messages private.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 16:59:

.

.............Desi, might I suggest that you just delete Robi's account...............or control it in such a way, that he can only post in Bolivia section....................

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:01:

Sound like a good idea, Ray.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:08:

Ok, you deleted my post... I was going to edit my self like this... Censura again? Ridiculous.

Your honor, I reformulate my spell...

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME HE GOT WARNED
Desi, warned him after my email, to defend... Buggy/Cassini!!!!

To:
> Subject:
> From: my_pbh at yahoo.com
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 03:37:30 -0800
>
> (This message was sent from the PBH website by another user. The user
> does NOT have access to your email address directly, but if you reply
> to this message, they will see your email address. You can turn of
> messaging in your account settings.)
>
> Desi,
> Jack_Jason is calling Cassini Stronssini all over the board...
> As an example, have a look at
> http://poorbuthappy.com/colombia/post/son-terroristas/
> He claims to speak Italian.
> Stronssini is like call him Stronzo (very typical to change a name
> that way) for an Italian speaking... a very big offence against
> someone.
> He has been warned by you in the past... warn again?
> If I was a moderator, I'd delete him in a heartbeat...
>
> --
> You are receiving this email because you selected to receive emails from poorbuthappy.com
> You can stop receiving emails by logging into your account and changing the setting.
>

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:09:

I can post my part of the email, right, Desi?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:13:

Remember Ray, if I go, you go... ;)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:14:

So, what you a re saying is that I should delete jack_jason for ad hominem attacks because this was the third time?

How about deleting you instead for publishing private messages? Ok, first time, just a warning. We haven't implemented that system yet.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:17:

So, you threaten me for telling things how they are. Good move.

Delete me Desi. Ok.
You'll be the one making a good show out of yourself. I assure you.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:19:

Close my eyes and... gosh I am still here... Desi, this is not the right way to talk about things. Really.
I was not going to tell anything, but you jumped on it.
And told that I was the one (not the only one) insulting.

I told you that it was not the truth and that guy was used about it.
You wrote that you did not remember well, so I helped you to remember.

I say that you don't know how to moderate a forum, and that has always been my thought. You know about it. It doesn't have anything to do if you're a nice and intelligent person at all.
Because you are a nice and intelligent person.

Again, you got it in the wrong way.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:23:

Robi, I'm dead serious about this: I'm extremely unhappy about your posting private correspondence here. PM's are meant to keep private. I am going to have a serious trust issue with you, robi.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:23:

Do it Desiiiiiiiii.............ZAP him..............swat.....swat......swat.................

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:27:

I posted your part because there was nothing wrong in it, nothing bad, nothing harmful.
It was a good response, if you ask. Something to be proud of.

I took away your private address.

You told about it, I was going to edit myself. Although I don't understand what's wrong in it.

At least, I don't post on here private IP address... :)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:33:

LOL Ray.
Gods, Robi, that was not intentional...you didn't need to bring that one up...second time. So. I'm not perfect, who is? You?

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:39:

I try, hard, Desi... and you? I know you do. :)

God, it was not my intention to harm anyone showing a message. And, I really did not. As i told you, it was a very nice answer by your side.

Really, why can't you stand anyone who says that you moderators don't do a good job? There is nothing to be ashamed of, there is not a moderator school out there.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 17:45:

Robi.............Desi's paltry salary for being a moderator is only $125,000. It is obviously a thankless job. She gets the opportunity to read many intelligent comments, mostly mine. She also has to read an awful load of stupid comments, mostly yours.

Robi............why do you hate people from Finland....??

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:09:

I know Finland quite well, beautiful country.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:11:

Q: Is this now considered hickjacking a post?

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:13:

They're like El Gordo y El Flaco of PBH. They take their act on the road and hit all the swankiest threads. At least they're entertaining.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:22:

Wrong, we're two Gordos. :)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:24:

Well. El Gordo y El Gordo doesn't sound right. "El Gordo y El Flaco" is the Spanish name for Laurel and Hardy. I wasn't actually calling you two fat.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:26:

I knew it, I knew it, CG :)
... but... I hardly can imagine someone calling us El Flaco..;

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:35:

I knew it, buggy... Take care, problems are forgotten...
But please, understand that people can have different ideas from yours.

Must be late in France? A nightmare?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 23, 2008, 18:36:

Robi..............why is it that EVERYBODY has different ideas from you..?

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

robi666 says on Mar 24, 2008, 02:32:

I am still pleased at DD's comment:
"È gran pazzia lu cuntrastari cu du' nun pô vinciri né appattari."
"It's insane to oppose when you can neither win nor compromise."

It is all about it.
A great piece of Sicilian philosophy, elegant, in perfect Sicilian. Where did he get it from?
My discussion with Desi was painted in it.
It was funny and appropriate, since Jack_Jason claims to live in Sicily.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Mar 24, 2008, 07:27:

I am aghast at some of the comments of buggy/cassini. Do people in Europe really think like that?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rikito says on Mar 24, 2008, 07:47:

Desideria, it is amazing to me that a socialist country like Sweden produces so much parochial censorship. Freedom of speech is the most precious freedom that a person has and you seem to feel that you are the arbiter of what is and what isn’t correct. Sounds like you would be better off working with the Saudi internet. Unless you own this site and unless people are clearly made known of the rules, I challenge your sophomoric right to restrict what a person says. This was tried in the 1930’s in Europe and it failed…apparently with the exception of Sweden.

I don’t like Buggy/Cassini or people of his ilk who feel that they have intelligence far greater than anyone else. In the case of Buggy/Cassini, he or she gives ample evidence as to why many people, especially Americans, feel that France is not worth flushing down the toilet. There are several others in here I choose to discount anything they say as disingenuous, AND I am sure there are many in here that would rather pound sand up there ass than to give any credence to what I say, but freedom of speech is just that…freedom. I understand that in Sweden there is a pick and choose element of social correctness, but people should be allowed to say what they think as long as it relates to Colombia and the topic being discussed. If you want to police something try to keep people on the topic instead of allowing comments to degenerate into useless discussion, bad jokes or abuse, such as what this topic has degenerated to. Your recent actions of political correctness are probably one of the reasons what many worthwhile PBHrs have gone elsewhere…such as CatherineB. That and Buggy/Cassini.

Why is it that almost all of the PC/social police are women?

Des, make the rules, advise people clearly and without the parochial PC crap, and apply them consistently and fairly. Post the rules so that people have to read and agree to them every time they log on. Don’t try to regulate what someone can or cannot say based on your view of the world…you do not do a very good job of it.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 24, 2008, 08:12:

Rikito, you see that little monkey next to the box where you write your comments? If you click on "be nice" the rules of this forum are all spelled out for you. I didn't make them but I agree with them. As long as Peter trusts my judgement I will continue moderating this forum using the original intention, the spirit of this travel forum and the rules written down by the owner as my guide. It has nothing to do with Sweden, my personality or being politically correct.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rikito says on Mar 24, 2008, 08:25:

I disagree with you completely...you allow your personal/social views to cloud your thinking. But this is not the palce to debate them. You are the boss and the boss must be obyed and not questioned. Just remember the number of wonderful contributors we have lost since you have imposed your will.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Mar 24, 2008, 08:52:

"Just remember the number of wonderful contributors we have lost" Rikito

And they have been replaced by the likes of buggy/cassini. At least some of those who left provided information that might be useful for those who actually travel/live in Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RAAAY says on Mar 24, 2008, 08:56:

Yeah........where's the guy with the information on taxi drivers and their remote controlled exploding cell phones...??

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

0 funny, 0 helpful.

ColombianoGringo says on Mar 24, 2008, 08:59:

Ja Ja. What's funny was that coming back from Colombia recently, I picked up a Maxim en Español in MIA and it had an article on how to turn a disposable camera into a shock device, but it made me laugh because of the whole stun gun cellphone taxi driver thread.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 24, 2008, 13:38:

Buggy, the comparison is so ridiculous that it does not need to be addressed. It's all part of the job; I have nothing else than my own common sense to go on. I don't think it's personal, in any ways, since this "Rikito" does not know me or have any idea of how I think. If I started a fight with every right-winger here I'd be involved in a hundred battles every day. He has a low opinion of me; what can I do, perhaps he's not a top performer in my book either; we'll let it at that.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

jorgegdiaz says on Mar 24, 2008, 13:41:

I think eveyone is enttitled to an opinion (even Cassini). What I found hard to convey is being judge and part.

"To err is human - and to blame it on a computer is even more so."Robert Orben

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rikito says on Mar 24, 2008, 18:34:

Just had a very interesting experience. I wrote and submitted a comment about the ability of a person to arbitrily restrict the free expression of another and the posted was deleted by the monitor.

Oh well, freedom of speech, like life, is just an experiment anyway...right Des?

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 25, 2008, 01:34:

I haven't deleted anything you wrote, Rikito. I just woke up.

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

0 funny, 0 helpful.