Bogota vacatoin, observation slanted for newbies to BOG or COL

Dan says on Nov 25, 2004, 11:49:

restaurants The last time I went to Bogota, I visited a place around La Calera that looked out into Bogota. At night it is beautifull seeing all the lights of the city. Anyway, My girlfriend told me this place was expensive and that she doesn't go there much because of that, Just for the two of us, the bill was 143K pesos. well... she warned me about it before hand but I didn't have a problem with it.
I havn't heard of anyone like that ordering a full appetizer and THEN the main course after that. Did she eat it all? If you get "peeved" at going to an expensive place like that, maybe you could talk to her about it. Hope your trip goes well. Enjoy yourself.
Dan

God Bless America!

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 25, 2004, 13:25:

Blvd Mall? Do you mean the Zona T, where the streets are closed and it's a pedestrian area with lots of restaurants?

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caslug says on Nov 25, 2004, 14:04:

I don't know exact location... It's a big inside mall, the local taxi driver just called it Boulevard Mall, But it had Hollywood Casino inside. Where's Zona T? I stayed near carrare 15 & calle 85(carulla supermarket) in zona norte. I remember they close on sunday carrer 15 to cars so people can walk and bike around.

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juanalejo says on Nov 25, 2004, 14:41:

Appetizers It is absolutely normal to order an appetizer per person and then a main course. Most appetizers are main course style in smaller sizes. It is a family dinner it is not badly seen to share but you actually change plates, if it is a date you might share a bite, just to try it out, in a formal dinner it is completely out of question.

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litost says on Nov 25, 2004, 14:51:

I think caslug is talking about the Bulevar Niza shopping mall, which is on the calle 127 with avenida Suba (northwest Bogota). It's an ok mall, but not what you would usually show to a foreigner in Bogota.

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caslug says on Nov 25, 2004, 15:32:

I agree, It's an ok mall.. I only went there because an amigas lived close and we wanted to meet somewhere close to her. But as mall goes, I lived in orange county, CA which has malls and malls, and then you have LA. I like checking out malls in different cities or country to see how locals look like and how they shops. I actually prefer to shop in little stores on the streets. Near where I stayed, there was a little swap meet going on in front of the carulla supermarket, with little stalls of merchants selling knick nacks.

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cremaster says on Nov 25, 2004, 15:54:

What did you expect? "She recommended the famous Viejas restaruant(expensive), I was a littled peeved that my friend took me here. I wanted something more authenic family style colombian food, what locals would go to, not some fancy restaurant."

If you expect to be treated a certain way - as a man and not merely as a wallet - then you have to act like a man. You should have expained your wishes to your friend and then held firm. Complaining about the situation now does little good.

And I sincerely hope you take this as constructive criticism and not a flame,
Patrick

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Lionheart says on Nov 25, 2004, 15:55:

appetizers and etiquette It seems the Colombian customs are the same as in Europe. Normally appetizers are not shared, espcially when you order a full menu, where the sequence of dishes is matched. Some restaurants offer special mixed appertizer plates for several people, where you pick and select the appetizers you want. Within the family or with close friends you can exchange plates, but never at a formal dinner. Shoving food off the plate onto somebody else's plate is considered extremely rude.

Question on etiquette: Do Colombian's keep the fork in the left hand and knife in right hand at all times like in Europe? If you eat with a spoon or fork only, where does the left hand go, on your lap or the wrist resting on the table edge(Germany)?

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caslug says on Nov 25, 2004, 16:26:

Great comment!.. but, we're not talking about a full menu...like you would order in a 4/5 star restaurant, or what we americans call a pre-fix menu. I have eaten at those and paid quite a lot of money for that. Vieja is a upscale(very) colombian restaurant, but it is not a pre fix menu. the appetizers are not match to the meal(ie, 5 course meals).

You right cremaster, I was complete gentlemen throughout, didn't complain or questions it(till now), made no fuss, and enjoy the rest of the evening. It just i cast a wary eye on women who choose expensive restaurant on our first date, when she doesn't know anything about me, except I'm a foreign tourist. We have women like that here in america too, we call them "high maintenance". BTW, those three women i mention were a minority, most where quite happy to suggest someplace more economical.

I guess i'm use to eating in america where it's more much more informal dinning. Even at upscale restaurants. Heck, most american upscale restaurant, did away with there dress codes long time ago. Espcially in California. I pretty sure, colombian use their left hand for forks like americans and europeans.

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kernow62 says on Nov 25, 2004, 16:34:

Good questions Lionheart Table manners may indeed differ in different areas of Colombia too. I imagine Cachacos are more European in their table manners. I noticed that they do not put elbows or arms on the table as per the norm in Europe. Alos curious what if any foods are supposed to be eaten in the fingers. In Europe I eat pizza with a knife and fork, but in the US it is perfectly acceptable to pick it up and eat it in the hand. My wife who is from Bogotá does not even pick up a rib or a piece of chicken with her hand, I am not talking about food from a street vendor, but in more formal family or restaurant settings.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Nov 25, 2004, 17:24:

Zona T If you stayed at 85th and 16th then you were very near the Zona T. That's between 84 and 82 (Calles) and 12 and 13 (carreras). Also nearby are the Atlantis and Andino shopping malls. The whole area there is the Zona Rosa.

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juanalejo says on Nov 26, 2004, 06:46:

Etiquette Lionheart, I was taught to change fork to the right when eatting and to the left when cutting, but it all seems so complicated. I do not know when in my life I changed to keeping the fork always in the left and I have noticed a lot of people do it now a days. About the free hand when eating, it is to be kept visible on top of the table, my father used to teach me via the rudest way possible by asking me in public if my b.... were itching if my hand was on my lap instead of on top of the table.

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poulet says on Nov 26, 2004, 08:22:

yep, you use the fork with your left hand when cutting and with your right when eating. If you're just using a spoon your left hand goes on the table. You NEVER EVER place your elbows on the table I find it extremely rude.

caslug, some entrées you share some you dont. If you're between family members you would definitely share, but if not then each person would order what they want. Another thing, to me what you call appetizers are entrées (entradas in Colombia), to me appetizers are drinks, generally alcoholic.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 26, 2004, 08:51:

fork and knife We don't change fork from left to right as we eat. We don't cut up our food first, only the portion we put into our mouths. It's considered bad table manners here to first cut up all the food and then eat with only a fork. The fork is always kept in the left hand, and the knife in the right hand. The fork is never used as a ladle or spoon to bring the food into your mouth. You cut up the food and pile it daintily on the top of the fork holding the meat or other solid pieces attached in the teeth of the fork. Elbows on the table is an absolute no-no.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 26, 2004, 10:19:

what unoccupied hand? I only have two of them, and they're both occupied when I'm eating, except when I'm eating soup or dessert:) Just to be argumentative: fork always in the left hand, knife always in the right hand. When eating soup: spoon in the right hand, left hand rests easily on the wrist supported by the edge of the table, not in the lap!
Children are raised up from the age of two to the correct use of fork and knife.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 26, 2004, 10:45:

that's the only way we've been taught. It's neat and very easy, once you get used to it. When I was in Colombia with the kids last time I had drilled them thoroughly to mind their table manners at the grandparents'. When the old folks grabbed greasy chicken legs with their hands and started munching them my children could not hold back but started laughing...saying..."Mommie, and you were worried about OUR table manners!"
In Colombia they say that the chicken, pork and woman is held in the hand...
Cheers,
Desi
(of course, all table manners is just a social agreement of what is seemely in that culture. We frown on gringos' seemingly sloppy and childish table manners:)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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caslug says on Nov 26, 2004, 10:53:

ahh, the lost art of dinning etiquette... I can see from the post here that americans are very lax in our table manners. I attend luncheons/dinners with business owners, company executives all the time, and we always cut food w/ our fork&knife then use the fork to put in our mouth. I agree that formal dinning etiquette is a lost art(especially in USA), it's really not something that is taught anymore plus there are some many different type of cusines that don't use the standard fork/knife/spoon settings.

Poulet, thanks for the info on the appetizer definition. I guess part of my love for traveling to different countries is to learn about differences in culture or life from my own.

In the USA, appetizers in most restaurants(except upscale french) are for sharing with at least one person. Example of a popular appetizer is fry calamari, chicken wings, bruschetta, sashami salad, etc., and usually made to share because of portion size. Unless you go to a very upscale french restaurants, fix course menu is not the norm. Even at very upscale steakhouse($70-100/person), appetizers are shared. I guess that why I found it a little suprising that some of my dates in COL, will try to eat the appetizer(big portion) solo, and the main dish(big portion), most restaurants in COL i dined at give plentiful portions for their appetizers or entres.

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Lionheart says on Nov 26, 2004, 13:09:

mmm, rather the lost art of etiquette in general When I was growing up in Germany my German step-father was very strict about manners in general, not just the table manners. How to shake hands correctly, in which sequence to sit down at the table, etc. Also the art of being a cavalier has been lost in the USA. Holding the door open, taking her coat off and hanging it up, pulling the chair back a bit, sitting down after her, standing up when she goes to powder her nose, and other endless little things to show attention ....

I love holding the car door open and watch her take her seat in her mini skirt ...... grin

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 26, 2004, 13:45:

good manners I believe the virtue of having been raised up traditionally is just that you always "know" what's the right thing to do at any given situation. It becomes an instinct rather than something you have read inthe books You can break the rules of the etiquette just as easily if you think somebody is receiving a shabby treatment. All this "good manners" is just a code of behaviour that takes into consideration the feelings of everybody else. It's not pleasant sitting at the table with a sloppy eater, or somebody who picks his teeth, makes disruptive noises, chews with an open mouth showing the contents inside his/her mouth, talking loudly, spilling or knocking over things...it's very basic, indeed.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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caslug says on Nov 27, 2004, 10:46:

concept of time... it took me a while to figure this one out...I would agree to meet my friend at a certain time, BUT she typically would be 1-3 hrs late w/o calling. Couple of times, I would call when they are 30-45 min late and they are still at home. I asked the hotel manager about this and he told me this is normal in BOG/COL. As a vacationer w/ limited time, this becomes and issue, but i can see that if you live there then it wouldn't be a big issue. The best way I find to avoid this is if I offer to go pick them up in a taxi...

Another thing I found out talking w/ many women in BOG, was their safety concerns. All of them mention that it is not safe/recommended for a women to be out alone when dark, like waiting for a cab, walking to store or bus, etc., Once I found this out, I would offer to have the taxi drop them off first before taking me to my hotel after our date. In the past, i usually just get them a cab, pay for it then take a seperate cab of my own.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 27, 2004, 11:04:

concept of time No Colombian woman would ever be that desperate as to show up at the time that has been agreed upon. It's understood that if you say, for example, at 8 p.m. it only means that it's not going to be before that. It can be anytime after.
I can understand if you feel vexed by that, but that's the way Colombians conceive time in reference to social commitments. Business appointments are another story, even there there's more generous allowance for being "late" but not by those margins.
I am very punctual by nature and upbringing, but when in Colombia I try to take into consideration the different concept of time that people there have. I wouldn't want anybody being several hours late, however, without letting me know that there's going to be a delay.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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toneloc24 says on Dec 2, 2004, 15:32:

Question to Desi then re: punctuality

Is it seen as disrespectful if the guy who waits 30 mins past the agreed-upon time for his date just leaves and makes other plans?

Do Colombian men put up with this? Somehow I sincerely doubt it, but just asking.

Being seen as desperate can work both ways.

I just feel that if a lady is not considerate and understanding with my time, I can be the same way. I feel it's about respect. None received, none given.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 2, 2004, 15:38:

We used to call this Indian Time when I lived in Oklahoma. What time does the Pow-Wow start? The Pow-Wow starts when the Pow-Wow starts.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Atrevido says on Dec 2, 2004, 16:02:

Good one utopia! I prefer time measured in moons. Desi don't forget to mention one should never place their knees on the table. Dating various Colombian women I had one who consistently arrived two or more hours late. I really couldn't figure what she was trying to prove but on the second date (there weren't many more) she told me "when I get married I want a car". So I conclude that any colombiana who is that incumplida probobly wants you to buy her a car and I ain't talkin' no Renault Master. An hour wait is outragious. No second date. More than an hour merits dire action (those guys on the Yamahas).

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toneloc24 says on Dec 2, 2004, 16:40:

Atrevido - I'm not sure about what other dudes are thinking, nor really do I care, but if ANY chick is later than 30 minutes without so much as a call, date's over.

2nd date??? No wonder dudes get pushed around and played out by chicas.

Next action, pick up the phone and call someone else. By the way, there are too many other Colombianas available to be stuck with one who doesn't respect your time...and maybe you. Especially when she's know your time is limited. C'mon guys, use your brains.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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caslug says on Dec 3, 2004, 09:39:

agree... that more than 1 hr is late ridiculous. I was tempted couple times to make multiple date at the same time and go with the one that shows up first! When your on vacation, your time is more important because you have limited days you'll be in town.

Bogota truly is a microcosism of COL society, it has everything from COL of old to the new modern COL. It has the COL of poverty to riches. All pretty much within walking distances. Tone and I went from hanging out in zona central(poor, slightly dangerous area) for a beer during the day to having a beer in Park93 where we sat in a bar(cafe azul) that look like it could be a posh bar in Manhattan, LA, SF, etc., We saw locals that probably had more money than us. :-)

Another great place to hang out at is the Casinos, you meet the most interesting people. I meet a young american pro tennis player on tour(rank 800 or so) playing blackjack, when then head out hitting some bars afterward. Another night, I was playing w/ 2 US embassy guys and they had no fear of locals. We were all playing with a local guy who didn't know how to play, and busted our cards. This local guy was with his GF and knew English, the Embassy guy said outloud me and his coworker, "lets move to another table, this idiot f*cking things up!". Well the local guy heard that and left the table, so we could play without him. I then asked them,"aren't you afraid of pissing off the locals?" and they replied,"no, they should be afraid of us". That's when I asked them who they work for(US Embassy), i joked with them about the tourist visa thing, and they said that it's so strict that Embassy employees can get in lots of trouble even joking about it w/ locals. They did admit, that they love living/working in COL. They were friendly to Tone & I and even told us about local places to check out.

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caslug says on Dec 3, 2004, 09:47:

another experience.. I had that made my trip enjoyable and memorable was when I went down to Plaza de Boliver one day to take pictures of the plaza, the presindential palace and surrounding areas. It was during the weekday during the day, and I never felt danger at all. All the soldiers & guards i talked with were very friendly. When I got to the Plaza, I saw some protest was happening. So there was bunch of black uniform riot police w/ bunch of tourist police around too. I took some fotos of the protest(student were protesting about privatizing education).

Well, I went up to one tourist police and asked him about the protest and he explain it to me. Then all of the sudden, a whole bunch of them started crowding around me, asking me where I was from, what I was doing in BOG, etc., Bunch of kids really, we talked(about US, guy things, etc.,), joked around for an hours or so. They even let me take fotos of them and me with them. (I can't seem to post foto to my foto gallery, so if anyone knows how, pls tell me so I can post it) Then they asked me if I wanted to checkout the police museum, and then 2 of guys escorted me down and got me into a tour of their musuem. COL are definitely great host.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2004, 10:12:

more about tardiness I'm afraid the Colombians don't see it that way. For them it's a sign of rudeness to be on time, since it's not customary to be late, and it's expected. To insist on showing up on time means that you consider your time more valuable than their time, which is of course, untrue.
Say, for an example, that you are invited for a dinner at some friends' at 7 p.m. If you should show up at that time you'd embarass your hosts since the wife would be in the shower and the hubby wearing his underwear in the middle of shaving and the kitchen would be a mess. Things happen all the time to make people to be late: the car didn't start, the taxi was late, the maid didn't show up, the mother-in-law chose to stop by unannounced to give you a harangue about your failing to comply with her requests to drive you somewhere (you'd totally forgotten, since you got in a fight with your spouse whose girl/boyfriend just called and threatened to send you the moto if you didn't pay up with the money he/she just spent for your vacation reservations in San Andres)...it's an exciting life and all these little incidents make life quite unpredictable.
For you guys who think your date showing up late think she's irrespecting you think it's quite the contrary: she's just spent hours and hours (plus bundles of pesos) making herself pretty for the date, of course she is going to be late! It's all for your benefit, so what are you complaining about!
An hour is ok, an hour and a half would require a phonecall, two hours...I'd just find a new date. Just don't expect punctuality from folks who don't live by the clock.
Knees on the table? Sounds uncofortable and slightly painful....

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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toneloc24 says on Dec 3, 2004, 11:58:

Desi, I understand cultural differences and I'm willing to adjust to many,...but this is downright stupid and disrespectful.

Am I suppose to wait an extra 60-90 minutes, probably while I'm hungry, for a date who's late and hasn't even bothered to call? Not speaking about novias or esposas, just some new random chick who knows you're on vacation and your time is limited.

I sincerely doubt Colombian men put up with that crap either. To show up on time signifies desperation? I think to wait 60-90 minutes for some ungrateful, disrespectful brat is much more of a sign of desperation.

Please stop defending bad behavior. It is truly disrespectful. You think men don't need and/or plan some time to get ready beforehand as well? It may not be hours, but at least we are respectful enough to be ready at the agreed-upon time.

I look at it like this, set the boundaries upfront, or suffer the consequences. In the end, whatever treatment you receive, is reflective of what you deserve.

I have no problems leaving a late date without a call to say anything. While in BOG with Caslug one nite, his date had these time issues. He was upset about it. My date was missing in action, I had no qualms about leaving the meeting point (hotel) after 15-30 mins, and going to eat. I was hungry and she failed to even call. From the restaurant, after ordering my food, I called back to the hotel, and she had made it there by then. I went back and got her, and arrived back in time for my food to come out. The ONLY reason I called the hotel and went back to get her was because she was from out of town, and didn't know much about Bogota.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2004, 12:13:

it's all about their time, not yours. Please don't read me wrong, I am in favor to be punctual myself. I was raised that way, and I think it's just good manners to be on time, but when you can't beat them, just join them! For a casual date, I agree, a half an hour is pretty much the norm, after that you ought to start making phone calls to explain yourself. Have a bite to eat before, take it easy, relax. You know your date will be late, so you can be a bit tardy yourself, since nobody is expecting you to show up at the agreed time. It's just a reference frame, anyway.
Somehow, I've discovered, it's just impossible for Colombians to show up on time for social engagements. I leave it at that. I don't think any disrespect is intended, it's just the way things are.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Mr. Hollywood says on Dec 3, 2004, 12:27:

Protest Caslug, I walked through Plaza Bolivar during that same protest and asked a cop what it was about, too. Funny, we might have practically bumped into each other.

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toneloc24 says on Dec 3, 2004, 13:02:

Desi - voice of reason once again Thanks for the clarification. I will never just accept that your time is more important than mine, and vice versa.

That will take much getting used to on my part. My ex-novia in BAQ was horrible about time, until I left without her a few times. After 30 minutes and two drinks in the bar waiting for her, I left so as not to get drunk while sitting there waiting. She was pissed but she also got the hint quickly, as I went ahead and had a great time without her. I felt kinda bad the 1st time, but she needed to understand my time was valuable as well. We had missed a few events, due to her tardiness. We even missed chivas scheduled to leave at 8:30, due to her tardiness.

Thanks for explaining.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2004, 14:31:

everybody I've ever known have been horrible with times. I've grown used to it, and don't consider it an issue any longer. But I'm kind of curious about why you consider your time more valuable than theirs. You're there on a vacation, they are working, right?
However, I had to repair the roof of my Cali house a couple of years ago. I called the roofers and made an appointment at 2 pm. I felt a bit stressed and took a taxi to my house, arrived at 2:05 pm and the guys were already on the roof.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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caslug says on Dec 3, 2004, 14:59:

My time is NOT more valuable than my local amigas. I have high regard for their time and effort to meet me, so I expect them to show me the same courtesy. I'm sure it's also a cultural perspective too... I never let them sit around waiting without notice for more than 30 mins w/o a call. COL are not 1 or 2 hrs late for work, so apparently they CAN and DO make a effort to be on time when $$ or career is involve. So it's not like it's impossible. The people that choose to be very late, made a choice NOT to treat YOUR time as important as their boss or clients.

I understand that unexpect things sometimes happen, no problem, just call and give me and update, most COL i've went out with have cell phones. BTW, after explain this to many of my amigas, they quickly learn the lesson to call me if they are running very late.

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caslug says on Dec 3, 2004, 15:03:

Hollywood, do they hold... protest at the Plaza de Bolivar alot? Or did we just happen to stumble on to one that day? I love to post some fotos, but I'm having problems trying to upload the fotos onto this site.

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toneloc24 says on Dec 3, 2004, 15:26:

Desi - I do respect your opinion. I enjoy listening the otherside of the coin, but.....it is not about whose time is more important. It's about simple respect. Women take for granted that we're supposed to wait for them. Why is that?

If a meeting is planned at 8 or 9, and the lady gets off work at 5, if she's running later from whatever, there is plenty of time to pick up the phone and either ask out of the date or ask for more time. Men do this. Is it unreasonable for women to do the same? It does seems uncommon.

Yeah, I'm on vacation, and my time schedule might be different from hers. But more than likely, we'll have figured out a time that logistically works for both of us, with plenty of flexibility. Common courtesy is engrained in most people. I can't believe that Colombia is so different.

Is it about the appearance of being desperate, or value of time thing?

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2004, 15:40:

it's more of value of time, I think. For Colombians, time in itself carries no big value. They'll tell you "6 p.m." for an example, meaning it can't be earlier than that. Anytime later is ok. Since it's a social engagement, it's ok to be late. Yes, I think it's common courtesy to let you know you're running late. A half an hour isn't really "late". Two hours, yes. I would draw a line at 45 minutes, but that's just me.
What I really hate is when people tell you "we'll meet in the afternoon". That can be anything after 12 noon, to me. For Colombians it's more like in the evening.
I don't think they'll ever be able to understand that "respect" thing.
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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caslug says on Dec 4, 2004, 09:26:

Safety in BOG... As i travel to different places I would ask the taxi drivers what strato and how safe those areas are in day or night. The general concensus was strato 3 was safe in the day to walk around, shop etc., BUT not safe a night. Strato 4(upper class) area were the same except at night some areas were better(more street light for example). I remember dropping an amiga that had a house in Strato 4 at night, and her whole residential neighborhood had no street lights(pitch black on the street). Quite scary on the surface, of course that's why it is not recommend for a women to stand outside a street corner(even in strato 4) and hail a cab at night. Strato 5(zona rosa) is pretty safe at night. I walked from the casino to my hotel(4-6 blocks) fairly often late a night. Just stay on the main streets and in well lighted area.

One night my friends and I went to this after hour club(2AM-5AM) in Chapinero and it was OK to hang out in front but not walk around the street. So to hail a cab, they call one for you, it was not recommended to walk couple of blocks to the main street to hail a cab(something i would do in NYC).

As a foreign tourist, you do have to be more "aware" at night or during the day in some areas. Things like walk with a purpose, no your surrounding, don't get drunk, don't flash money/jewlery, etc., are good advice to follow. Never did the safety issue "cramp" my enjoyment, so for anyone thinking about going to BOG/COL and are concern about safety... Just go, use common sense, and you'll have a great time.

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kernow62 says on Dec 4, 2004, 15:45:

What is wrong with batteries? My wife's cousin uses battery power here in Florida, it is how I power my CD player, big deal. The batteries must be recharged so I don't understand your reason for bringing it up. Now the water situation is a problem, but if one has access to clean water whether plumbed to a house or going to a local well it is better than no water. Incidentally that same cousin has a wind powered well for their water supply.

I have never visited the real Colombia, but I am looking forward to exploring more and more each time I visit.

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