Bogotá-Cali by bus?

quindioman says on Nov 28, 2005, 14:09:

Desi I've done the trip Bogota-Armenia by road countless of times (when it was considered a bit more dangerous than it is now).
I'd be the first one to say go for it! Enjoy the scenery along the way.....you are probably well aware the trip will set you back at leat 10 hours....(leaving 8 hours between Bogota and Armenia and another 3 between Armenia and Cali).
Take care

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Rubiazo says on Nov 28, 2005, 14:14:

My only advice is take the NICEST bus you can find. It is only slightly cheaper than the Nausea Express. Make sure that it has the seats that go way back so you can comfortably sleep.

And make sure at least one of the Swedes is packing ;) just kidding.

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litost says on Nov 28, 2005, 14:27:

From my own experience, and that of friends including foreigners who have recently done the trip, it's a safe trip. Check out what time in the morning the Bolivariano Expresso leaves to Bogota, it is the most comfortable and safest in all regards. The trip should be about 10-12 hours depending on stops and traffic. Great changing scenery all the way through. You could break up the bus ride in 2 if you have the time, spending a night in Armenia to see a little of the Eje Cafetero. You could even spend the night in Salento and then continue the trip to Bogota the next day.

OK now, bring on the criticism and scare-mongering, you know who you are....

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Gator says on Nov 28, 2005, 14:36:

Desi... go for it. My wife and her sisters make the trip frequently. To enjoy the scenery make an early start. 11/13 hours and about 500 km.
Catch the bus at the main terminal out close to El Dorado Airport.
Crossing La Linea at about 3.400 is a great experience (if the clouds don't close in). Trip has great scenery, cross the Magdalena at about Girardot, through Ibague, cross La Linea then cost downnnnnnnn hill to Armenia, Tulua, Buga then Cali.

It's really a great trip but like the others said, take the best most comfortable bus possible.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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adela says on Nov 28, 2005, 15:05:

It's late to call the "Terminal" de Cali on this moment. Tomorow I'll find out about traveling by bus Bgta-Cali. I would call also the police report(if there is any about it)....

Màs fe, màs abrazos, màs besos, màs disculpas, màs visitas a nuestros amigos antiguos nos haràn màs plenos cada vez.

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Gator says on Nov 28, 2005, 20:00:

GIB... is right!! You will all die a horrible death!

BTW some of us DO live in Colombia. In fact while we were in Cali our neighborhood was not too far from where Desi lived.

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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quindioman says on Nov 28, 2005, 23:09:

..... "Since we have heard from everyone Colombian or Latin who is making the trip... I don't think any of them actually live here by the way" GIB

What's your point?

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 03:39:

Colombian Rich So do Colombian rich take the bus, no, we usually take our fancy cars. But maybe the guerrilla will stop and kidnap a bunch of strange gringos and let through the rich Colombians. Or is it maybe that if the rich Colombians travel in their fancy cars, it is because we are not worried about guerrilla road blocks.

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 03:42:

Desi And by the way Desi, I think you are beginning to spend to much time in this site. You of all people who are one of the few sensible and rational people who know Colombia, are become prey to the scare mongers? You are the perfect evidence of what a bunch of idiots have done to Colombia´s reputation. They are capable of terrorizing even the most knowledgeable person in the country.

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saritafercho says on Nov 29, 2005, 03:43:

I want HARD FACTS! OK, so how many blonde "gringos" do the Bogota-Cali route each year, and how many get off happily at the other end with nothing more than buslag? I am a tall blonde (ie obviously foreign, obviously "rich") Englishwoman going to Colombia for the first time in December with my Caleño husband. We are travelling from Bogota to Cali by plane as we decided that we can't face a long journey. However the return journey may be by bus or car. I am bored of reading the scaremongering and theory, I want HARD FACTS! I want the truth, I can take it. My husband's (middle class) family use bus, plane and car for this route, never a problem, but they are also aware of the risks. BTW I don't like the word gringo to be used to apply to anyone who is from the "western! world. For me a gringo is American. But OK OK, I suppose it is a convenient catch-all phrase.

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 03:52:

Hard Facts This is the wrong site for hard facts, most people here are married to Colombians and have been by plane to Colombia just a few times and know All the Facts after having almost never left a city. Then you have the scare monger type who know more than any Colombian living here, like me, and disqualify any opinion we might have with all kinds of offensive posts. Hence the absense of Colombians on this site. Go to the Lonely Planet forum, where you will find lots of advice by real travellers who travel around Colombia permanently, or if Carter is around, he owns a hotel in Santander province and if very familiar with the backpacker scene. I think Carter has also retired from this site though, as for him that is in contact with travellers on a daily basis, it must be upsetting and boring to listen to all this idiot stories about the "dangers" of travelling through Colombia´s main roads.

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litost says on Nov 29, 2005, 04:41:

God... did anybody actually read the above post by GIB? Do we need to? I love the scroll down function!

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saritafercho says on Nov 29, 2005, 04:41:

no answers yet Still no hard facts... Of all these people you know who have been kidnapped, how many are actually normal foreign people just visiting? My husband lost his father and brother 10 years ago to secuestro so he knows what it is all about I guess. We think that the last travellers kidnapped were in Ciudad Perdida, where they frankly should not have gone according to my Col. family. Anyway, I guess this is getting off the original thread here, sorry.

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litost says on Nov 29, 2005, 04:50:

None.... 0.... no normal foreign visitor has been kidnapped on a bus in Colombia for as far back as I can remember. There was the case of a guy who was taken from a bus in rural Choco a few years ago. That would be it. Maybe a few have been robbed over the years, more likely. But none of the random murders or kindappings people seem to think goes on frequently in Colombia.

I've been posting on this site longer than GIB and many others, those who were here from the beginning (when it was actually informative and respectful) including Desi know I am colombian and have lived in Colombia most of my life (lived several years in the US as a kid and now studying Masters in France) and travelled around. I even posted a link so as to share pics of the places I've visited. This is the last time I will identify myself, like so many other colombians I'm getting really tired of this crap.

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 05:03:

Sarita The problem is when you have people like GIB who are always casually walking when somebody gets killed, has just been where there was a bomb or always knows somebody up high that tells him that specific point where somebody is asking about is very dangerous. What a coincidence. It does get annoying. But the truth is that of the 900 or so kidnappings in Colombia last 12 months there have been around 20 dual nationals, none tourists and most of them (not sure if all) Colombians with a dual passport. Out of those kidnappings, 50% had a economic purpose the others are either political or family oriented. These last ones have become a problem as usually have to do with poor emigrants who have left their partner taking care of the children and who know want to take their children away to their new home. The problem starts as Colombian children need permission by both parents to leave the country and usually the parent still leaving in Colombia does not want his kids to leave as it represents not only separating from his children but also the end of a permanent source of income from abroad. Most of these children leave Colombia via the Ecuadorian border. These are facts.

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 05:06:

GIB Not long ago you were saying travelling to Cali was very dangerous. That now that the guerrilla was getting stronger and that you would not travel or advice on anybody travelling. What made you change your mind. I hope I do not run into you, it might ruin this nice and enjoyable trip.

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 05:17:

What ever GIB, you suit yourself. Believe what you want to believe. Just make sure your kind of gringos stay away from this country, that is find with me. With one like you, this country has more than its fare share. By the way weren´t you moving to Argentina because there were not as many gold diggers as here? What happened to that plan?

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 05:19:

Tourists More than 1.000.000 foreign tourist will have visited Colombia in 2005. Aren´t we glad most of them are not from the USA, I could not cope with more GIB´s around. Or are they from the USA?

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litost says on Nov 29, 2005, 05:21:

So what the hell does my living in France right now have to do with the validity of my opinions???

For the record, I just got here a month ago and came to study with a scholarship, under which I have to go back to Colombia to contribute to the country's development. You definitely must have the ultimate Rambo complex, you think that just because you're a gringo and have been around Colombia for a while you are some kind of guru with the authority to lecture even us colombians on our country??? You try to play down objective and informative posts by people like juanalejo and myself by saying that we don't live in the country or that we don't represent the REAL Colombia???

I've been posting on and off on this site for the pure joy of talking about my country and encouraging others to get to know it too. I have no kind of "hidden agenda" or alternate identity... I actually have a life! I just wanted to be helpful and give a more balanced view of Colombia. It seems day by day that this is no longer a place where this can be done.

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elmodefoque says on Nov 29, 2005, 06:27:

Middle class/rich Colombians refuse to accept or admit the extreme dislike the very poor have toward them and that means 60% of the population. They like to think the poor are happy and honky dory. The poor actually enjoy being their maids, garners and begging them for hand outs etc. hell noooo!! what makes a pretty young poor peasant girl put on a uniform, rubber boots, and grab a ak-47 and gotto the jungles to guard kidnapped Colombians and gringos? Not all colombianas are out at the best clubs in Colombian lusting for foreigners, others are out there planning a way to grab them by the balls and haul them to the jungle and not to have sex, I assure you. I don’t carry that hate like many poor do thought I lived that poverty. The few years I lived there were the most prominent years of my life and I saw and experience a lotta things that left a nasty taste in my mouth and now when I go back and sometimes hang out with the midde/rich Colombians I could see that things have not change much, most don’t give a crap about the poor and even enjoy and make fun of their poverty. Modefoque, you’re full of shit, we don’t see or hear any of that stuff! of course not! is not safe to ride around their towns , you will never know what they think cause they ain’t got no computers, they don’t travel abroad to study, they don’t speak or care to learn English, they are not out there listening to rock Latino or eating quarter pounder with cheese. All we know is that for almost 40 years is almost impossible to travel by bus in rural Colombia. What makes a young guerrillera take a captured Paramilitar and shove a 12 inch bowie knife in his heart, hate! while MOST (not all) Colombian middle class women are pushing each other at clubs to meet gringos, gerrilleras are fighting to the death next to their poor broke ass colombian men. That side of Colombia, few get to see or hear. I love to start a web site called theverypoorandangrymodefoquesfromcolombia.com
I know get it over it, old news. Farc is old news too.

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 29, 2005, 09:43:

Now I've finished reading all the messages on this thread (even the lengthy ones from GIB). I appreciate all of you taking your time and giving me your opinions about the possible trip I'm planning.
Quindioman, litost, gator: that's pretty much how I feel myself about this trip. I'd love to take this opportunity to show the Colombia I know to my family (especially my grown kids and their significant others), I'm aware of the length of the trip having done it once in a colective taxi. I've taken the bus from Cali to Honda and back, but that was an excursion. I've also taken the bus from Cali via Pasto to Ipiales and back, half a lifetime ago (so it seems). I get motion sickness myself but I believe there's medicine for it.

I wouldn't be too worried myself (juanalejo, you're right; I've been infected by the paranoia of this site) but for those four precious "Swedes" I'll be taking with me on this trip (actually, only two of them Sweden-born); all of us can be easily identified as foreigners, three speak so-so Spanish, all of us blonde or light-brown haired, one redhead and all but one have blue eyes. I'm talking about my family.

No, I don't believe we'd be targeted in any way; as juanalejo pointed out, also litost, there's plenty of foreign visitors that visit Colombia and I believe the kidnapping statistics regarding ordinary tourists is not alarming at all.

Sarita, I'd like to see some statistics too. How many foreign tourists have been taken from a regular intracity bus in 2004-05? How many on this particular route from B/tá to Cali at daytime? How many of them have been just ordinary tourists, not involved in absolutely anything in Colombia? First-time visitors? Europeans? Scandinavians?

Cheers,
Desi




Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada




Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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elmodefoque says on Nov 29, 2005, 10:41:

This happened to me during my first trip back to Colombia, 1979. My uncle, a very upper middle class Barranquillero with the sunglass case hanging from belt and handkerchief and I, then a very NYC hippie type long hair and all, had the bright idea of going fishing. My uncle suggested we get a couple of those very poor modefoques in Cienga to take us out in their canoe. First we had to walk around all these wooden shacks, stinking of fish, with all eyes following us. Keep in mind, both my uncle and I looked just like all these modefoques but dressed completely different like we had money. Anyway we finally found a couple low lives and they took us out, my freaking whimpy uncle doze off and I was watching these guys closely, did not trust them on bit. . The canoe is really a long ass tree with middle dug out just like you see in movies. at one point I over heard one guy tell the other, all the way from the other end,- I’ll take the big guy (me) and you take the little fat guy (uncle) let’s take their money cut their throat and throw them over board. Check please! I woke my uncle up and I told him lets get the fuck outta here. We walked thru that village and every modefoque was staring at us, like they can’t believer we made it back alive.
Moral of the story. Not all Colombians are like the ones you find in Zona Rosa, keep your ass in big cities among the wealthy/middle class Colombians and you’ll have a great time.

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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carter says on Nov 29, 2005, 10:49:

as a foriegner working in the tourist industry in Colombia a regular bus traveller and a person who meets around 5-10 foriegners who are travelling by bus on a weekly basis.

I can tell you that Litost is correct that there has been only one case in Colombia (Choclo) of a foriegner being killed on a bus ride after being caught in crossfire. Other than that there has been 0 cases of foriegners being kidnapped off buses being reported in the media.

Now GIB may go on about how things go unreported but what about after the event? If a kidnapped victim eventually gets killed it makes the international papers especially in his home country. If he makes it out alive he goes home and tells his story and I have never heard these stories in the media and the large varity of nationalities that I meet on a regular basis have never read these stories.

i advise the bus ride Desi unless any events occur in the area between now and then.

GIB, I do not advise hiring a car and driving as a foriegner if you are pulled over you will be valued a lot higher than a gringo on a bus. I have heard more cases of foriengners in cars having problems than those travelling by bus and I really think you may be going the wrong place for advise.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Nov 29, 2005, 11:24:

thanks, carter for coming out of your semi-retirement to answer my question. I don't know yet if we'll make this trip or when we're in Bogotá I'll be able to convince my people to get on the bus. My daughter's greatest fear is not being kidnapped by the guerrilla but the bus falling off a cliff at 4000 meters. All of them would trust my advice on the matter and I feel a little overwhelmed at the responsibility.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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juanalejo says on Nov 29, 2005, 18:22:

Buses Besides Bolivariano (www.bolivariano.com.co) try also Expreso Palmira (S26) who also have really nice busses. (www.expresopalmira.com.co)

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 29, 2005, 18:29:

I would tend to agree with Carter that people in private cars are more likely to experience problems than people riding on a bus. The people that my wife knows who were kidnapped were all nabbed while driving their own cars in rural areas outside of Medellin. She allows her kids to ride the bus unaccompanied between Medellin and Bogota or Medellin and Cali but then they are Colombians.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Atrevido says on Nov 29, 2005, 19:16:

My wife and I took the bus from Bogota to Cali about a year ago. Eleven hours. There were no problems though we learned later that there had been a skirmish between the FARC and army a couple of days earlier. Traffic was stopped for several hours till the FARC were subdued but no kidnappings were involved.

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rf says on Nov 29, 2005, 20:13:

why even take the risk? If you can afford to travel by air don't bother with the risks. Its not worth it. Get on a plane and you will be in your hotel in less than 2 hours. Unfortunately, even a bus ride for locals is a strain on their budget. Therefore, the are forced to take this risk regardless of the threat of danger. Traveling by road in Colombia is a known risk. I really don't understand why someone would bother if they can afford air transportation. If you can't and bus is the only way to go.. well you know the risks. Don't expect a magical reply on this site.. it won't happen. The risk is VERY REAL. If you decided to travel on a bus.. be smart... avoid foreign clothes, don't show off, be very humble and try to blend in as much as you can. Travel with someone who speaks the language.

Remember.. you are in a third world country... and even though you are traveling between to major cities... the world between bogota and cali is completely different. BE SMART!

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juanalejo says on Nov 30, 2005, 04:35:

rf Very ignorant response, as if an American would blend in any where in the world. And by the way I can afford travelling by plane, the reason I travel by car is: one because it is one of the loveliest trips you can take any where in world, two because I love having my own car in Cali. That is why I travel this road several times a year. And here people are complaining about a road where hardly ever is there and incident but it is Ok to go to Cali the most "dangerous" city in the country. Why don´t you guys just stay at home and watch tv. For most cultured travellers in world, travelling is not chasing gold diggers and getting drunk, it is actually about seeing a country and its people. I wonder sometimes why can´t many of you guys just find a girl at home instead of going to a place to find it, where you are daily bitching about the place. And let me see last Christmas season 18 million people travelled by car, how many security incidents..........none.

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caslug says on Nov 30, 2005, 06:15:

there is an inherent danger riding the bus.. in COL, FARC is one risk, albiet a small one, especially on major roads, MED to Cali, BOG to MED, BOG to CALI, etc., The bigger risk i would have is getting a cheap bus that didn´t do it´s maintenance or have bad drivers, and having an accident. Some parts of the road from MED to Cali, especially through the mountains, are do NOT have sturdy rails on the side of the road to prevent a bus from going over. Many parts of the road were one lane, so drivers try to pass one another, sometimes on blindman curve. So go in the day with a expensive bus company is my advice. But 10 or 13 hrs is LONG time to sit on a bus.

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lozza says on Nov 30, 2005, 06:31:

I always travel by bus. If you can afford it, fly, the difference in time traveling is immense. However, I understand why many people say don’t travel by bus it has been a voiced concern for years, but I have been traveling all over Colombia by night bus for the past 5 years between Bogota-Medellin, Medellin-Cali, Cali-Popayan, Medellin-Cartagena and for two years frequently between Medellin and Valledupar.
I’m not saying you should or shouldn’t travel by bus, I’m not encouraging or discouraging it, I’m just saying I have always traveled by bus, usually at night and have never had a negative experience, other than dripping air-conditioning, over or under heating, rancid food-stops, shitty stereos and terrible movies!! I have also met many other foreigners who do the same and I have never heard a first hand story of robbery or kidnapping.
I guess what I want to know is to whom are all these robberies and kidnapping happing. I have never heard of a foreigner being kidnapped straight off a bus, I have heard first-hand stories of The ELN or FARC stopping buses, checking ID and that’s it and I have heard first-hand stories of Colombians being robbed on the bus (some years ago now). The most frightening experiences/stories I have heard are those concerning bad driving and the accidents that have occurred.
As others have already mentioned, traveling by day is worth it for the scenery, although further north it can get a bit monotonous.
Just a bit curious about the ‘don’t travel by bus as a foreigner, you may be kidnapped’ voice that is so popular. How many foreigners have actually been kidnapped off the buses in recent years?

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 30, 2005, 08:23:

Just a question, Iozza. Do you know anyone, Colombian or not, who has been kidnapped?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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lozza says on Nov 30, 2005, 08:31:

Yes, I have known several people who were kidnapped, particularly when i lived in Valledupar. I have also had various students who had had family members kidnapped (often more than once)and sometimes killed.
I have heard countless stories of Colombians being kidnapped, usually rich Colombians, or political, and a couple of stories of foriegners being kidnapped - while on botany tours, or military exercises, or from powerful international companies etc. But i have never heard of a foriegner being kidnapped from a bus.

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utopiacowboy says on Nov 30, 2005, 11:43:

Thanks for the response!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Cerealkiller says on Nov 30, 2005, 14:20:

What a very informative post. I am planning on traveling Bog-Cali myself sometime in January, I've always done it by plane and the thought of doing the whole tour thing is absolutely thrilling.
I wont say GiB's posts are a little alarming, BUT Ill do it nevertheless, it should be an experience.
Desi, when are you planning on traveling to Cali? If you get there before I do, let me know how it went, and if i do it before I can tell you ;)
Good luck!!!

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Atrevido says on Nov 30, 2005, 15:15:

Utopia I do know two Dutch people personally who were kidnapped off a bus though it may not count here as it was more of a colectivo and not following a main route. It was traveling southwest of Popayan and the driver sold them to the ELN. My friends even saw the money exchange. My doctor at Imbanaco was briefly kidnapped (but not off a bus) in that mass kidnapping by the ELN at kilometer 18 about five years ago. Fortunately for him he was too old to walk long distances so they didn't keep him. Also the son of the owner of my subdivision was kidnapped by the FARC two years ago on the Cali-Buenaventura highway from a private car. He hasn't been heard of since. Spend some time in Cali-Valle and it doesn't take long to meet people who have been or have relatives/friends who have been kidnapped.

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calipro says on Nov 30, 2005, 20:13:

GIB is right. "But, as for me, would I take four blonde heads on a bus ride from Bogota to Cali? Nopper probably not."

I would not take a bus ride for Bogota to Cali. Chances are nothing will happen to you. But, if your bus is stopped by FARC you will suffer a fate worst than death (years of being chained to a post in the middle of the jungle with a tarp over your head and nothing to do or nobody to talk to).

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litost says on Dec 1, 2005, 01:47:

Let's bring things into perspective, on terms that I think we could all agree on:

1 the chances of a guerrilla roadblock happening on that road at any time are very low
2 the chances of it happening during the day and if you're travelling on a company like Bolivariano are even lower
3 the chances of it happening precisely the day and time you travel and on your bus are extremely low
4 the chances that you as a regular foreign tourist (and not even american) will actually be kidnapped as a result are slim to none

Can we say there is NO risk of anything happening... well no, but that's like saying that there is NO risk of getting hit by lightning in a storm. For some people who are happy just going from city to city not very adventurous or appreciative of nature, landscape and small town life, even that tiny risk is not worth taking and I respect that. But don't make it a nightmare for those interested in seeing more of Colombia, enjoying the scenery and actually "travelling" in the country not just "going" there from airport to airport.

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lozza says on Dec 1, 2005, 05:18:

I'm with Litost on this.
It is a myth that foriegners are 'targets' for the FARC or ELN, they are not. The targets are rich Colombians, known families that the guerilla groups have information on and will have less hassle getting the money from. The FARC and ELN generally do not make chance kidnappings, it is organised. The information the guerilla groups have on the population is extensive. They do not have so much information on foriegners and it is more likely to be an international hassle that they do not need.
Apart from perhaps a political statement (which was what the ELN claimed when they kidnapped the backpackpackers in the Sierra Nevada) why would an unknown foriegner be kidnapped off a bus when there are plenty of very well known rich Colombians to target. 'But foriegners have more money', yes foriegners usually are economically better off compared to the averge Colombian, but compared to a rich Colombian, i'm pretty skint - the last person who told me about a family member being kidnapped said they had to pay about $400million pesos to be released - now if i get kidnapped for that amount, i'll be staying with the guys in green, coz that kind of money doesn't happen in my life!!

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calipro says on Dec 1, 2005, 05:36:

I'm with and without Litost on this... Agree that chances are slim that you would actually be stopped by FARC but if you are and you are an american you will suffer a fate worst than death IMHO. Even if you live though the ordeal you won't be the same person.

Simply being an american will make you a prime target for kidnapping. The U.S. government provides billions of dollars in military aid to Colombian to specifically find and kill FARC. There probably isn't anything more the FARC would like to find on a bus than an american or a rich colombiano ( the colombiano for cash and the americano for political reasons).

The only reason that I even got in this discussion is because GIB is like the little boy that cried wolf to often and there are some that might not take him seriously.

I'll take my money out of an ATM in a bad part of Cali all day long before I would travel by bus all over Colombia. I personally have little fear of street crime in Colombia because I'm probably a little more likely to actually freak out and kill a colombiano myself than ever be killed by one. But, even I have to admitt that I'm afraid of a group of men with automatic weapons and a political agenda.

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carter says on Dec 1, 2005, 05:42:

Altrevido Can you please tell us more about these two dutch friends who were kidnapped.
Were they released?
how long were they held for?
was it reported in any press?
What was their business in Colombia? (tourists, Volounteers or business)
when did it happen?

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 1, 2005, 07:57:

calipro has managed to to get me scared. Now I'm really nervious. Bah.

Cheers,
Desi


Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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rf says on Dec 2, 2005, 07:31:

to jaunalejo juanalejo viejo good point... i like the golddiggers and getting drunk remark .. you got a cuckle from me. But in all seriousness I still continue to believe WHY TAKE THE RISK? If you are not a local and plan to travel by road I just don't see why anybody would want to take the risk. I understand the risk is low, but for a foreigner to simply take the risk without some carefull planning just sounds ridiculous to me. Personally i just can't see myself taking the chance (even if its 5%) to lose my FREEDOM over seeing the country and its people as you mentioned. I'll stick with the post card.. but thats just me

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litost says on Dec 2, 2005, 07:55:

more like 0.005%, but ok to each his own.

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quindioman says on Dec 2, 2005, 19:25:

out of curiosity can someone compare the percentages of air crashes versus the percentage of tourists getting kidnapped in Colombia?

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poco says on Dec 2, 2005, 20:21:

Percentages - Risk vrs. reward Bus riding is great,,, until the trip lasts 2 hours,, then it sucks. You can only see so much country until it gets tiring. Cali / Bogota trip takes you through some hot, muggy areas,, so I’ve been told.

I’d suggest planning to see some towns,, not that the towns will be much but you will get a feel for the country side. I never tire of trips to Armenia sometimes I decide to go there for lunch and a look around. There is always something new to view.



Forget the FARC,, this is your biggest problem.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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litost says on Dec 3, 2005, 01:37:

If you're on a comfortable bus like the luxury service on Bolivariano, have good company to talk to or music to listen to, you can endure a much longer bus ride and not end up worn out.

The thing with Colombia precisely is that the landscape is so diverse and stunning that you do not get tired so quickly. I love looking out the window and seeing the people who offer fresh fruits, crafts, local treats, etc. along the road. You pass right by tons of little houses/farms where you see chickens, horses, cows wandering around freely. You see people swimming, fishing in the rivers. You notice how at different altitudes the crops change from sugar cane, to coffee, to potatoes, etc.

After so many years of doing that road on bus, amazingly I still enjoy it to the point that even if I have enough money to travel by plane I sometimes prefer land travel. But that's just me, and I can be a little different than most people at times when it comes to this.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2005, 03:18:

I've been looking at Expreso Bolivariano and Expreso Palmira's web pages and been thinking about a trip from Cali to Armenia or Manizales and back as an alternative. I would like to visit the Zona Cafetera and Parque del café too. Santa Rosa sounds like a real cool place too and I haven't been there before. Crossing La Linea is something I will do too, but maybe just myself, at this time. We'll keep planning the trip. I also enjoy riding the bus much more than flying, for the same reasons you (litost) mentioned. You get so much closer to everything, get such a good picture of everyday life looking through a bus window. I get a little nauseated on the bus and on winding roads, but sitting in the front with plenty of open space in front of my eyes usually helps; I can also take some motion sickness medication prior to the trip.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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carter says on Dec 3, 2005, 09:27:

Desi try Salento
A friend Tim has a lovely house there aimed at foriegners. small town and on the edge of the national park. if your interested let me know and I´ll send his info

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litost says on Dec 3, 2005, 12:07:

Definitely Salento. And when you do decide to go to the Eje Cafetero let me know and I'll give you some tips and hook you up with a friend who just opened up a hostal in Santa Rosa.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2005, 12:33:

carter, litost Thank you both for tips on lodging. I'll let you know when the time comes. On my last visit to Cali I wanted to go Parque del café but my relatives in Cali didn't think it was safe enough for me. I think now that they just didn't want to go there themselves. This time I'll be on my own.

Now, if I can get these Swedes to Colombia I believe the Zona Cafetera is a must. It's at reasonable distance from Cali and the risk of something happening is really minimal. I've been in the north of valle (Sevilla/Caicedonia) area and the hills are lovely. The termales in Santa Rosa and the wax palms in Salento would definitely be on our list of things that we should see.

Cheers,
Desi

Embrace your uniqueness. Time is much too short to be living someone
else's life.

-Kobi Yamada

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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