Big news: Extradición de ex jefe para 'Macaco' a Estados Unidos autoriza el presidente Alvaro Uribe

robi666 says on Apr 2, 2008, 15:08:

It is dangerous, too: interesting, let's see what will happen in the next week.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Medellin Traveler says on Apr 2, 2008, 15:24:

I still can't understand why Colombia extradites criminals to the USA.

Why don't they handle their own business? It's a shame, really.

Medellin Es Una Chimba! - www.medellintraveler.com

bamacellist says on Apr 2, 2008, 15:50:

Why is it so hard to understand? These people have engaged in international crime. They can be or have been indicted and or charged in more than country. Each country has the right to prosecute and there are any number of circumstances which will determine where they end up being tried and sentenced. It's no different from interstate crime within the US. In this case, there is apparently a much greater fear of trial in the US, so Colombia uses the threat of extradition as a deterrent. No mystery there. One could argue that there is pressure from Washington, but I would say that so long as Washington sees what it considers as reasonably vigorous prosecution and appropriate sentencing within Colombia, that such pressure would be pretty minimal.

"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."

webmanco says on Apr 2, 2008, 15:58:

ditto MT

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

Man Tequila says on Apr 2, 2008, 16:01:

Assuming that one wants criminals prosecuted, surely their chance of escape and bribery is a lot less if they are extradited to the US? Colombia should handle their own business, when they can. There is still too much corruption.

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...

durito says on Apr 2, 2008, 16:08:

I can understand completely not agreeing with it, but it's pretty obvious why they do it.

juancegomez says on Apr 2, 2008, 16:13:

It's a shame on one level, I agree, but on another it's not exactly bad for Colombia to have additional mechanisms to pressure these individuals, if there are international crimes that merit it (although, of course, drug prohibition shouldn't exist in the first place so any drug charges would be a non-issue, but that's another topic).

If they do not behave and instead choose to take advantage of the local system's flaws for their criminal ends, then it's not entirely unthinkable to send them to another system where, while things aren't exactly sacrosanct, they'll have a rather more difficult time. Some shame remains, but in practice it's a useful mechanism.

On the other hand, apparently at least one paramilitary victim was opposed to removing "Macaco" from the "Justice and Peace" process, in spite of his possible violations of the demobilization terms, arguing that sending him to the U.S. would leave local victims without reparations, truth or justice. So the debate has even more faces.

Sam Salmon says on Apr 2, 2008, 16:15:

Many of these people are *very* connected politically-they would escape justice as sure as shit if allowed any kind of wiggle room-and money and political connections can buy a lot of wiggle room in Colombia.

So let the yanquis pay to keep them locked up-an ideal situation really-for any Govt with the cojones to send them away.

' a la orden!'

webmanco says on Apr 2, 2008, 16:28:

Some extradited do have "muscle power" to negotiate abroad. Wether it is money or names, or both. Yes even at Uncle´s Sam house.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

jorgegdiaz says on Apr 2, 2008, 16:34:

Juance wrote, "On the other hand, apparently at least one paramilitary victim was opposed to removing "Macaco" from the "Justice and Peace" process, in spite of his possible violations of the demobilization terms, arguing that sending him to the U.S. would leave local victims without reparations, truth or justice."

I strongly disagree. If they get a trial (here, US, International court - think Slobodan Milosevic) they´re paying for their crimes. Although the penal system in the US is harsher in terms of sentences, I believe inmates actually have a better "living standard" than in Locombia.

A sentence for a crime is valid here or in Cafarnaum.

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

robi666 says on Apr 2, 2008, 16:53:

I would think also that extradition in this particular case is a more viable and easy way to get him definitely out of Justicia y Paz benefits.
Don Berna was told to be in the same boat. Ironically, they were the two removed from Itagui to be confined on a war ship. Don Berna, as others, is also requested by the US.

I may be wrong, but, apart from the Los Mellizos, who are clearly not para and bought a group just to appear as , this is the first important AUC jefe removed from benefits.
It will be interesting to see what kind of reaction this will have on the processes.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

juancegomez says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:02:

jorgegdiaz: "I strongly disagree. If they get a trial (here, US, International court - think Slobodan Milosevic) they´re paying for their crimes. Although the penal system in the US is harsher in terms of sentences, I believe inmates actually have a better "living standard" than in Locombia.

A sentence for a crime is valid here or in Cafarnaum."

The sentence itself.

But that also depends on the charges against him. If it's only for drug related charges, he may not be so severely punished, if he can make a deal with U.S. prosecutors as other drug traffickers and related individuals have done in the past.

And there's the issue of truth and reparations for his other crimes (massacres, murders, displacement), which aren't that directly related to drug trafficking, if not even at all.

If his U.S. trial (or trials) include a vast series of charges, then you'd certainly have a point.

The victim in question was, I believe, cited in EL TIEMPO earlier this week.

jorgegdiaz says on Apr 2, 2008, 19:22:

If that´s the case, you´ll (they) have a point Juance.

Man with hole in pocket feel cocky all day.

SiV says on Apr 2, 2008, 20:05:

Top narcos and paras in prison in Colombia are the kings of the roost. They still control business, everyone fears them and they live like relative kings with all creature comforts catered for a domicilio (well, a celdacilio).

Ship them out to the States and they're just another cog in the machine. Why do you think none of them want to be extradited?

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Mahatma Gandhi

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:42:

As a US taxpayer it pisses me off but as an effective means of dealing with Colombian scumbags I think extradition is a powerful tool. All their money and the fear they create doesn't buy then anything in a US court or jail, which is certainly not the case in Colombia.

webmanco says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:43:

Mr. H
All their money and the fear they create doesn't buy then anything in a US court

That is not always the case. A few USA courts and Prosecutors usually do negociate with such scumbags

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 3, 2008, 10:48:

Well, maybe I over stated the case, but it buys them all hell of a lot less.

What they use as currency in the US is actually mostly information, turning informants. Or else blackmail if they've got the serious goods on someone important in the US.

robi666 says on Apr 4, 2008, 17:58:

At least, Uribe cannot be accused to be pro paracos in this particular case.

http://www.eltiempo.com/politica/2008-04-04/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR...

Orden de extradición de Carlos Mario Jiménez Naranjo 'Macaco a E.U. fue firmada por el Presidente

El ex jefe paramilitar es requerido por las cortes de los distritos de Columbia y Sur de Florida para que responda por delitos relacionados con narcotráfico y lavado de dinero.

La decisión fue autorizada mediante la Resolución 097 del Gobierno Nacional, con fecha del 3 de abril.

Estados Unidos reclama a Jiménez por delitos relacionados con narcotráfico y lavado de dinero.

De acuerdo con la decisión, Jiménez Naranjo es requerido para que responda por 20 cargos en las cortes de los distritos de Columbia y Sur de la Florida.

El artículo segundo de la Resolución precisa: "No diferir la entrega de este ciudadano, de conformidad con lo expuesto en la parte motiva de la Resolución".

En los considerandos, la decisión señala:

"1. Que mediante Nota Verbal No. 2553 del 24 de agosto de 2007, el Gobierno de los Estados Unidos de América, a través de su Embajada en Colombia, solicitó la detención provisional con fines de extradición del ciudadano colombiano CARLOS MARIO JIMÉNEZ NARANJO requerido para comparecer a juicio por los delitos federales de narcotráfico.

"2. Que el Fiscal General de la Nación mediante resolución del 24 de agosto de 2007 decretó la captura con fines de extradición del ciudadano CARLOS MARIO JIMÉNEZ, identificado con la cédula de ciudadanía No. 71.671.990, decisión que le fue notificada el 27 de agosto de 2007 en el establecimiento carcelario donde se encontraba previamente recluido, a disposición del Juzgado Primero Penal del Circuito Especializado de Cúcuta".

Según la Resolución, la Embajada de los E.U. en Colombia formalizó la solicitud de extradición de Jiménez Naranjo a través de nota verbal del 23 de octubre del año pasado.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

webmanco says on Apr 7, 2008, 04:46:

http://www.eltiempo.com/opinion/columnistas/marajimenaduzn/ARTICULO-WE...

LA FARSA DE LA EXTRADICIÓN DE 'MACACO'

¿Dónde está la bolita?

María Jimena Duzán. Columnista de EL TIEMPO.


Pero y entonces, me preguntarán, ¿cuál es la farsa, si no hay extradición más justificada que la de 'Macaco'? Pues la farsa consiste en seguir creyendo que la extradición es un castigo para los extraditables, como en los tiempos de Pablo Escobar, cuando en realidad hoy es un favor que se les hace. La gran mayoría de extraditables prefieren negociar con las autoridades norteamericanas, entregar un poco de su dinero, revelar unas rutas, a cambio de la tranquilidad para el resto de sus vidas al quedar resguardados de la Corte Penal Internacional, como le pasó a 'Rasguño', quien se fue para los Estados Unidos con todos sus secretos de la 'parapolítica' y el paramilitarismo en el Valle del Cauca.

But, I'm going to start making some assumptions here.... Which means I might actually end up making an ass out of myself ..........Thu 04 17, 2008 11:34 am