Banks and bank accounts

Alma del Norte says on Apr 17, 2008, 18:23:

Sorry, I can't offer a solution to your woes. I am sure banks are fully entitled to refuse an account with or without a reason. They cannot be compelled to do so.

Why can't you go back to Davivienda? I opened an account with them yesterday. I asked if a cedula was necessary for foreigners - they gave me a big affirmative. Odd.

I am interested in your reasons for your dissatisfaction with Davivienda. So far their internet banking system has been hopeless, (early days), and their fees seem high.

Other than that - good luck.

La vida es una rutina

Noelito40 says on Apr 17, 2008, 18:39:

Well Alma, for a start, charging for online transactions is a rip off, imagine having to pay every time you look at your balance online! or when you save Davivienda money by paying a bill using a direct debit!! And if you dare to call them on the phone they charge you 1200. I know that all banks here charge transaction fees and a monthly charge but not all of them charge you for online banking-

Also they doubly deducted a TV cable bill (in total $286,000) and we had to go through all the hoops to get our money back (with Davivenda and TV Cable playing table tennis blaming each other for the problem and us sitting in the middle)

The main reason I won´t open an account with them though is that I want to invest some funds in a CDT, and Davivienda´s rates are well below the rest, they are fine as a small personal bank, but they are not in the game when it comes to the big boys---

Noelito

Alma del Norte says on Apr 17, 2008, 19:11:

Shit! I think I've opened an account with the wrong bank!

There's been quite a bit of discussion here about The Best Bank Account, and I don't remember any adverse comment about them, so that, combined with the fact that I can withdraw COP 500,000 in one transaction, led me to Davivienda.

Looks like I'll be out and about researching the alternatives tomorrow - I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the heads-up!

La vida es una rutina

mranderson says on Apr 17, 2008, 20:44:

I have an account with davivienda too since they were the only bank that would open an account for me no problems at all. Seems ok to me but I agree their fees are way too high. I'm going to stick with them though until I get a history here. What's that..6 months or a year?

BTW I only keep a few hundred thousand pesos in there max.

wcarmack says on Apr 18, 2008, 00:22:

We had no problem opening bank accounts at two banks although both required multiple trips to the branch as well as approval from "the main office". We thought we would give ourselves an option of seeing which bank screwed us less on fees - and we intend to maintain only modest balances.

Both banks required our cedulas - not the temporary contrasena - as well as proof of the source of our funds.

tomtom33 says on Apr 18, 2008, 04:43:

As far as I know all Colombian banks charge way too much for everything.

After 3 years of trying to open an account with them, Bancolombia told me that they would not open an account for anyone who does not have permanent residence.

I finally opened an account with BBVA, and I opened it with a contraseña. I successfully transferred money into Colombia to buy a house. Now Banco de la Republica tells me that they will not register the transaction because it was done by BBVA. The Colombian mind fuck lives on. All I can do is what I can do. PS, BdlR says that it will only register transactions done by Bancolombia and one other bank.

robi666 says on Apr 18, 2008, 07:20:

What? When did it happen?
I transfered fund with BBVA, registered with form 4 and 11 and never had a problem with Banco de la Republica.
They are really full of surprises...

Tom, email sent.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Noelito40 says on Apr 18, 2008, 08:03:

Now I´m even more confused?? Are BdlR just making things up as they go along? Does it depend on what time of the day you get them or who you talk to there?

I thought that Colombia was trying to attract foreign investment

Noelito

lawyer CO says on Apr 18, 2008, 08:16:

the problem here is divided into 3 aspects:

1. without the original cedula ( final) not even colombians can open a bank account. If foreign or colombia gets a banl account it get closed in the few months when they notice their mistake.

2. The residence: it means for tax law that you have to live more than 6 months in Colombia and only is possible with a visa and cedula.

3. screw transaction: that`s why you have to hire a good lawyer so he can do all the process and bother the bank until the fill the form you want. the rule is once we have your money, we dont care about you...but a lawsuit can be useful sometimes.

Esteban Rada
lawyer
email: lawyerscolombia at yahoo.com

droble77 says on Apr 18, 2008, 08:41:

The banks are the most powerful institutions in Colombia. It's the way the elite assert control over everyone else INCLUDING the expats!

Should I ever live in Colombia, I'd be really leery of this entire thing. You just have to brace yourself for a lot of stress. Making contacts, having a good lawyer, and trying to get some "palanca" is probably the prerequisite before you even make the first step. That's where really knowing the language and the local customs can help, otherwise, just bend over and grit your teeth. . . ;-))

miamimike says on Apr 18, 2008, 09:01:

Droble77-really incredible to read something like this isn't it?? That's quite an experience TomTom went through also. Colombia needs to upgrade its transparency dept if they hope to expand their business. What's gonna happen when all those Chinese business flood the banks? She's gonna blow,,,LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Noelito40 says on Apr 18, 2008, 09:47:

Banks everywhere are a law onto themselves, Colombia´s no different. From my brief experience here though, I would imagine that they have so much clout as a cartel that they effectively tell the BdlR and the Finance ministry what to do!! so what is annoying me is that the banks are refusing to accept my money?? And how does Colombia expect to prosper if it makes it so difficult for foreign investors to invest here?

By the way, just to clarify, I have a valid cedula extranjera (albeit temporal) and I am resident here more than 6 months (and I was able to open an account after a week here in Davivienda!! just with my Irish passport??) so clearly it´s the banks themselves applying their own rules.

Noelito

francis says on Apr 18, 2008, 10:05:

When I lived in Colombia my husband and I had the same problem. All of the Colombian banks turned us down the only one that allowed us to open a bank account was Banistmo they are a bank from Panama that operates in major cities in Colombia. We opened our bank account in Bogota they have about 3 branches there one near Gran Ahorrar, another in Chico and one in the north of Bogota.

rjstuff says on Apr 18, 2008, 10:17:

How does it work if your spouse is Colombian? Would the spouse be able to open an account and then add you as a joint account holder - couldn't that work? I was able to add my wife to my bank accounts by just using her SSN, I would think that we could do the reverse in Colombia with her adding me to her account (that she opens first) after I have my cedula. Any comments on this approach or am I singing an old tune?

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 10:23:

Banking and Immigration in Panamá is horrible, but sounds like the 19th Century, and much worse in Colombia!

droble77 says on Apr 18, 2008, 10:24:

Noel, the problem in Colombia is that obviously, a family needs a bank account to "get ahead in life" and to able to do/qualify for certain things. But many families simply can't AFFORD to invest the little they can save since the banks will nickle and dime their savings away. . .

Not to mention the interesting little habit of sums of money or transactions disappearing into the ether, or being charged twice!!

elk says on Apr 18, 2008, 10:31:

If you think the Colombian banking systems has problems then try Costa Rica, Nicaragua or Panama. We are not living in the U.S. where banking rules are written and followed.
This is also the first time I've paid a bank to hold my money in a savings account.

Davivienda is the worst with fees for accessing your account online. They even debit your account if a bank employee accesses your account via the web to address a question for you.

I have accounts with both Bancolombia and Davivienda and find Bancolombia to be the best. I opened both with a temporary cedula when I had only two months in country.

I also had an account with BBVA, but due to my size was unable to get through the security door without help from management. I finally closed the account! The security door will accept only one person at a time...and I repeatedly heard the automated message and alarm..."Only one person please". All bank customers and employees would turn to look every time I entered the bank. The process was repeated again as I left the bank.

I have the same problem using the "Green Metro Buses" I don't have to crawl onto the bus, but it might be easier due to the low ceilings.

I still like Colombia and enjoy living here, but one needs to adjust to the culture and the Colombia business style....

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:08:

elk says on Friday April 18th, 2008 10:31:

"If you think the Colombian banking systems has problems then try Costa Rica, Nicaragua or Panama. We are not living in the U.S. where banking rules are written and followed."

Elk, I have lived in Panamá for nearly two years, and I am on my third bank (private), and as bad as it was with the previous two, larger, banks, it was nothing like the horror stories I read on PBH.

Noelito40 says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:09:

Banks the world over do everything they can to screw every last penny out of you, that´s the nature of the beast and in a country like Colombia, I would imagine the authorities have neither the will nor the muscle to take them on, but what I can´t believe here is that the banks are turning down business?

Also rjstuff, getting the account in my wife´s name and me being added might be an option, but she´ll have a problem then when I transfer funds from back home, she won´t be able to account for the origin of funds into her account?

Noelito

miamimike says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:11:

Noelito40 says on Friday April 18th, 2008 9:47:

Banks everywhere are a law onto themselves, Colombia´s no different
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Noelito40--I disagree thats banks everywhere are the same and here's why; I'm on our Condo Board of Directors and recently we opened a new Condo Business account at a large well known Bank in Miami. During the process in the bank, at NO time were we asked for passports, We showed our IDs( valid florida driver's licenses), Minutes of the meeting where we were appointed and that was it, otherwise then a few signatures and in less the 20 minutes, 5 of us Board members had the new account opened, our names on the account and we were out the door. How long would this have taken in Colombia, weeks, months???

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:12:

I only pay a $7 fee for a wire transfer, and I think maybe $5 if my banker must cut a paper check to pay a bill (I only need call him, or send an e-mail). We have something like the ACH which pays some of my bills, without a fee, and no charge to use ATMs. I have a free Visa/bank card, and only a $250 minumum on deposit.

I wish I had found The Bank of Saint George first.

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:14:

Mike, they have a Miami office, but am not really sure if is a branch.

miamimike says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:19:

SS-interesting I'll check it out. I looked at the Miami Online Directory for a bank by that name but nothing came up. Here in Miami, most of all your major International Banks are located on Brickell Ave between south 6 to 8th streets.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:23:

And I still don't really what constitutes a private bank, but I do have my own personal banker here, and he speaks pretty good English.

www.stgeorgesbank.com

jonas says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:26:

Noelito40 says on Friday April 18th, 2008 11:09:
...
Also rjstuff, getting the account in my wife´s name and me being added might be an option, but she´ll have a problem then when I transfer funds from back home, she won´t be able to account for the origin of funds into her account?

you should look further into this. Before I had my own account here I once transfered money into my gf´s account (just under $5k, Bancolombia) and when she received it she had to fill out a form. I remember that on that form there was an option to say that you receive this money for somebody other than the account holder and to put that person´s data. (Which we did not do)

What I have, I do not want to lose, but Where I am I do not want to stay, but those I love, I do not want to leave, but those I know I no longer want to see, but Where I die, I do not want to go;I want to stay where I have never been

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:27:

Elk, I just remembered I also have free internet access and electronic bill payment.

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:33:

Question:

I used the ATMs of Bancolombia (no fee), and they have a branch in Panama City, which of course must be chartered in Panamá, but probably really a different bank. I wonder if opening an account here would be at all helpful if I were to buy a place in Colombia?

Ctg Bound says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:37:

Noelito40,

Opening a bank account even if you have a cedula is crap shoot, a Colombian bank doesn't have to open an account for you if they don't want to, much the same as anywhere else.

I have opened about 10 accounts here over the years with no problem, the way to do it is just go to a bank that the manager or under manager is a friend or a friend of a friend.

You contact the above person first, then arrange to go to the bank branch they work at.

Hopefuly then you should have no problems, it certainly removes most potential problems.

sloopskipper says on Apr 18, 2008, 11:48:

Cool, thanx!

Alma del Norte says on Apr 18, 2008, 12:41:

QUOTE Elk: "Davivienda is the worst with fees for accessing your account online. They even debit your account if a bank employee accesses your account via the web to address a question for you."

Now you got me crying...

And the idea of PAYING for a Savings Account, astounds me.

It's a whole new world of banking for me. Via most ATM's, I can access my UK bank account almost anywhere in the world, withdraw £350 per day, without fees. I can access my Current, Savings acounts & credit cards on-line anytime without any fees whatsoever. THEY pay me interest.

They don't have quite so many branches, however.

Just a quick one: contraseña = cedula temporal? (or is that something different?)

La vida es una rutina

Ctg Bound says on Apr 18, 2008, 12:47:

Alma del Norte,

Most Countries have to pay for banking, the UK removed that problem several decades ago as long as you wern't overdrawn, which to me was pretty fair system I thought.

Some do good groups in the UK started their campaining regarding overcharging on people who were overdrawn over the last few years, which picked up last year, if they keep it up, many in the UK will soon be paying for banking services again.

tomtom33 says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:27:

A contraseña is what you get from DAS while you await your cedula which may be temporal. When you get your cedula, you have to turn in your contraseña.

It is not illegal in the US for banks to levy any kind of surcharges for whatever they like. Competition and customer aversion is what keeps things in check.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:28:

Ctg,

"fair system" - yup, luvvverly system. Sorry, did I sound a bit spoilt? jajja!

I'm a big fan of the almost extinct Building Society/Mutual system. I've banked with Nationwide for nigh on 20 years without so much as a glitch. I'm expecting big things of Zopa, too.

Just a quick one: contraseña = cedula temporal? (or is that something different?)

Sorry, don't want to hijack thread...

La vida es una rutina

Ctg Bound says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:31:

Alma del Norte

"Just a quick one: contraseña = cedula temporal? (or is that something different?)"

Yes.

tomtom33 says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:34:

CB, the answer is no. See above.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:34:

ta CB - it equals or it's something different? lol!

La vida es una rutina

Alma del Norte says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:36:

ta TT! listo.

La vida es una rutina

Ctg Bound says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:40:

tomtom33,

Opps, I mis read her, I thought she said "something like that" in the brackets.

Yep you are correct.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:42:

HER? cheeky twat! Think I need a new handle. I keep getting mistaken for a bird.

La vida es una rutina

Ctg Bound says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:44:

Alma del Norte,

I always thought you were a her, obviously not.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:47:

Or maybe I just show too much of my feminine side...

La vida es una rutina

Ctg Bound says on Apr 18, 2008, 13:49:

Alma del Norte,

No you were correct the first time, I thought it because of the handle.

britabroad says on Apr 18, 2008, 14:50:

Noelito,
Can I ask what "International Banks" you tried to open your account with?
I opened mine here with HSBC along with my Colombian wife with no problem. And her cedula is not the original as that was nicked 2 years ago (still awaiting replacement). Basically, it's down to the manager of the branch. If they think you'll be transferring millions here and will make a buck, they'll open an account. I was actually asked how much I'd be transferring each month and the manager actually said, "What will we gain from this?"
I was gobsmacked.
If your bank in Ireland has overseas branches they may be able to facilitate the opening of an account here. Off shore accounts are the other possibility, but HSBC require you to keep your balance at (you'll like this one) £60,000 if you reside in Colombia, because it's on their list of "dangerous countries".
At least FARC etc will know you're worth at least that if they come knocking. It's ridiculous.
Prepare yourself for the fees though, $2,200 for each ATM transaction, $2,500 for checking your balance, $1,600 tax once you've withdrawn more than $5m, etc etc. It took me months to get used to it and to stop argueing with the bank.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

Noelito40 says on Apr 18, 2008, 15:06:

Believe it or not, HSBC was one of the banks who said no to me (at the third meeting after 2 meetings with them where they welcomed me with open arms!!), the other was Citibank.

I still use my Irish bank for atm withdrawals etc, no charge! but the real reason I want to open an account here is for investment, the interest rates are more than double what I get back home

Noelito

rjstuff says on Apr 18, 2008, 18:54:

Am I wrong in thinking that I can maintain my US bank account also and withdraw using my debit card? I don't like how long the Colombian bank takes - when I sent my wife a check, it took almost 6 weeks for them to give her the funds - the funds were transferred out of my US bank in about 2 weeks or so. And of course the Colombian bank charged a conversion or transfer fee also. The ATM charges 1% but it might be the best way to go if the US bank allows me to keep it even though I may not be in the US physically. And the fees would be a little difficult to get used to but I guess as someone else said - you stop complaining in the end. My plan is not to really transfer my millions as I do not have any. (I should put that in my will - Give millions to so-and-so if you can find it). I have my pension deposited in the US bank and can withdraw it as I need it. I do end up putting away some of it for travel etc. and then I withdraw it out to pay the travel bills. Do any of you maintain your US visa cards or do you try and get Colombian bank backed Visa cards? It would be a pain if I couldn't withdraw what I need while traveling (currently I can take out $500 a day).

Robert Jorge says on Apr 18, 2008, 23:44:

So, after reading this entire thread, my conclusion is it is foolish or futile to try and bank in Colombia. If and when I ever move there, I'll just keep US accounts, use prepaid credit cards for large purchases, have cash on hand, and to hell with Colombian banks. If the Colombian banking industry would get their heads out of their asses, they and the whole Colombian economy would reap profits and see more growth.

To be fair, 3 weeks ago I took the wife (US permanent resident, has social security card, etc) to a large bank to open a simple checking account with a modest amount of money she had earned. Hell, I'll mention the name - Sun Trust, Destin, FL. branch. Anyway, everything was cool, the 23 year old "executive" typed in her information, and then handed us a sheet of paper saying the account opening was denied; there was no explanation. And he said that we could call an 800 number for an explanation. (Called - nothing ... it was Telecheck) So, no US bank account for her for absolutely no reason.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

miamimike says on Apr 19, 2008, 02:38:

Robert Jorge says on Friday April 18th, 2008 23:44:

So, after reading this entire thread, my conclusion is it is foolish or futile to try and bank in Colombia. If and when I ever move there, I'll just keep US accounts, use prepaid credit cards for large purchases, have cash on hand, and to hell with Colombian banks. If the Colombian banking industry would get their heads out of their asses, they and the whole Colombian economy would reap profits and see more growth.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good points you make RJ! I'm really surprised more posters here aren't on to the Prepaid Credit cards as you can load up to 10G on each one(the ones they sell in my area) and no limit as to how many you can carry. So simple yet so under utilized,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

sloopskipper says on Apr 19, 2008, 02:45:

I maintain all my U.S. credit cards, bank/brokerage accounts after living nearly 2 years in Panamá, but I think you will find that you will need a U.S. mailing address and telephone number to do that.

http://www.aeropost.com provides me two mailing adresses in Miami, one for letters, and a physical street address for packages. They fly my mail to Panama City and deliver to my apartment (Panamá does not have home mail delivery). Aeropost has service in Colombia.

My U.S. phone number is a Skype-In number with a Pennsylvania area code (you choose any A/C) which out-calls to my Panamanian cell phone. I can call from computer anywhere in the World, usually about 2 cents per minute. Toll-Free numbers and Computer-to-computer calls are free, with amazing voice quality. www.skype.com

Be aware of the foreign transaction fees on U.S. credit cards (as much as 3%, and even transactions in dollars). I just applied for a Capital-One CC, for that reason.

tomtom33 says on Apr 19, 2008, 03:42:

I have both CapitalOne credit and debit cards. There are no fees of any kind including no international transaction fees. And my debit card account pays a decent rate of interest. I have been using both in Colombia since Oct. of last year. These 2 cards will continue to be my financial workhorses in Colombia.

When I return to the US this summer, I will get 2 more CapitolOne debit cards. They each have a US$500 per day limit. Then I can get US$1500 per day if needed. And I'll probably get a credit card for my novia and a spare.

I'll probably keep the BBVA account for awhile. But that while may not be too long.

I still have a condo in the US, and my mail is forwarded to a friend.

And I have VOIP service that costs about US$13.50 per month for 500 minutes per month anywhere in the lower 48. Incoming calls are free. It has a Madison, WI, phone number. People in Madison can call me as if I was still there.

sloopskipper says on Apr 19, 2008, 04:49:

I was pissed when my KLM/NWA WorldPerks airline credit card started, last month, charging me 3% for transactions in Panamá which is a dollar denominated economy, and I pay $60(?) per year to have the damned card. I had been charging everything I can to get my Skyteam (Copa, Continental, etc.) miles, but with a 3% fee is not so attractive.

I was charged for that Visa in Colombia in October, but ATM cash withdrawls at BanColombia with my AmEx show no fees.

I applied for a CapitalOne No Hassle which offers 2 miles per dollar, no transaction fees, and annual $39. I didn't get instant approval because my U.S. address is effectively a PO Box, although all my cards and other accounts now have that address.

I just renewed my Skype-In number, which increased to $60, annually. You can also call my number the same as if is a normal number, but calls my computer if I have Skype running, or otherwise out-calls to my cell, here in Panamá.

In-coming calls from the U.S. cost me 2 cents per minute.

Ctg Bound says on Apr 19, 2008, 06:06:

Robert Jorge,

I agree I wouldn't bother with a Colombian bank account unless you had some business to do here, I recemend sticking to debit cards based on your home Countries banking system.

morphus says on Apr 19, 2008, 06:23:

Colombia is a dysfunctional society. Thats why many Colombians are leaving Colombia.

Gator says on Apr 19, 2008, 06:34:

Imagine-in the USA you are asked for a bank reference and your reply is, "I don't have one."

If you are planning to establish residence IN Colombia I strongly urge you to establish a banking relationship.

Short time-stick with ATM's

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Noelito40 says on Apr 19, 2008, 06:49:

I think some of you are missing my point here. I of course still use my Irish debit or credit cards for atm and shop purchases, it´s great, I get the official exchange rate and pay little or no fees. (I have no intention for now of getting a Colombian credit card (the rates are extortionate), but I wanted to transfer funds to avail of the high interest rates in CDTs (10% as opposed to 4% back home) plus I had planned on investing in some real estate, but I can´t do anytihng until I am allowed open an account here!

Noelito

Ctg Bound says on Apr 19, 2008, 06:50:

Gator,

"If you are planning to establish residence IN Colombia I strongly urge you to establish a banking relationship"

Why?

sloopskipper says on Apr 19, 2008, 07:06:

I would have preferred not to have been bothered with that here.

In Panamá, you can pay some things with a gringo check, but the float time can be 15 working days, although I can see the money leave my U.S. account in 24-48 hours. From what I read, it is probably worse in Colombia. Most businesses will not accept them and I don't like to operate with cash, or have to "go someplace" to pay bills. My U.S. electronic bill payment systems will not make foreign payments, but I have that with my private bank here.

Does electronic bill payment exist in Colombia? Probably a hefty fee, if it does.

I can not imagine not having a local bank.

Ctg Bound says on Apr 19, 2008, 07:39:

sloopskipper,

"Does electronic bill payment exist in Colombia?Probably a hefty fee, if it does."

Direct Debit exists, I pay one bill by DD, never looked to see what the charges are.

Ctg Bound says on Apr 19, 2008, 07:45:

sloopskipper,

I just had a look at the account, I pay Direct TV fee of 194,800 pesos a month from my BanColombia account.

The fee for the transaction is 779.20.

sloopskipper says on Apr 19, 2008, 07:56:

That's really trivial, although I don't pay anything here, or in the U.S.

But, I am curious since you bank with BanColombia. I wonder if opening an account with BanColombia in Panamá would be any advantage with opening an account in Colombia.

Any idea?

Alma del Norte says on Apr 19, 2008, 08:12:

Quote Noelito:
" think some of you are missing my point here. I of course still use my Irish debit or credit cards for atm and shop purchases, it´s great, I get the official exchange rate and pay little or no fees. (I have no intention for now of getting a Colombian credit card (the rates are extortionate), but I wanted to transfer funds to avail of the high interest rates in CDTs (10% as opposed to 4% back home) plus I had planned on investing in some real estate, but I can´t do anytihng until I am allowed open an account here!"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I don't think anyone is missing your point Noel, it's just that no one has the answer to your very particular question. And as we know, even if they had the answer, your experience would probably end up being very different. Frustrating? Yes, very.

I opened that Davivienda account to facilitate something very similar to what you are trying to do. Are you looking for a short-term holding account albeit with high interest, or something longer term? Or both?

PBHers DO like to talk around the subject.

La vida es una rutina

bill230 says on Apr 19, 2008, 08:13:

my shoes

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 19, 2008, 08:28:

Gator's right...you'll need some banking reference...if you're gonna have residence there. Though, we never keep very much there as your personal banking information will not be private.

Additionally, if your going to be buying property, what we did was find your atty. group there that you trust (large one in bogota), that would accept the wire transfer from the states and make payment for the property. Then you have no low bank employees seeing alot of cash come in your name for future k&r..

I've got a friend that Azetec here also knows that they tried to grab, he flew out like 1 day before they were going to grab him.

Gator says on Apr 19, 2008, 08:29:

"Why?"

When you have active bank accounts in good standing, you are proving that you can manage money and are part of the community..

Establish the basis for a loan, if you ever need one

A banker with a personal interest in you is more likely to look favorably on your wire transfers, loan application and requests that may differ from their "normal" business practices.

That's why we make it a policy to stop in occasionally to say hello-you know the old saying, "Out of sight out of mind."

We can pay certain utility bills and credit card on line. The big block seems to be a lack of faith in this type of banking, especially among lower income people. Any bills in the USA we pay by online check writing, free, through our Citibank gold account.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

Ctg Bound says on Apr 19, 2008, 09:24:

Gator & Frank Rizzo,

You don't need a Colombian bank account to have residence in Colombia, although it does no harm when they are doing the paperwork.

I was just wondering why Gator strongly urged it, but could think of no reasons other than the ones he states.

I agree with the remainder of your reasons, but if you don't plan on doing some sort of business here as I stated I see no point in it, I pay all my personel bills bar one in cash.

Thats my view, but each to his own.

Noelito40 says on Apr 19, 2008, 09:29:

Alma del Norte... It was actually both, I want to have a normal cuenta ahorros to pay all bills online, but also want to invest in a CDT for a year, (and want to have funds here to buy property off plans) but unfortunately I´m not permitted to do any of those...

And Gator, you are dead right that it is important to build up a banking relationship with your branch, but this is primarily to put in the groundwork for when you go looking for loan, but how can you build up a relationship if you are not allowed open up an account?

One other option that I´d like your advice on, is, is it easier to set up an account if you are a registered business, or is their too much chance of opening up a Pandora´s box here?

Noelito

Ctg Bound says on Apr 19, 2008, 09:34:

Noelito40 ,

"One other option that I´d like your advice on, is, is it easier to set up an account if you are a registered business, or is their too much chance of opening up a Pandora´s box here?"

Its more paperwork than a personnel bank account, aboa lot more, you will have to give the same personnel paperwork, plus paperwork related to the business, the system to open an account is the same I recomend for a personnel account above.

Ctg Bound says on Apr 19, 2008, 09:37:

sloopskipper,

"But, I am curious since you bank with BanColombia. I wonder if opening an account with BanColombia in Panamá would be any advantage with opening an account in Colombia."

I don't think it will make any differance, as it is in a differant Country, people have tried that with Citibank, but no harm enquiring at a branch in Panama.

sloopskipper says on Apr 19, 2008, 10:02:

Here is a little tidbit I picked up on panamaforum regarding U.S. Banks operating in foreign countries:

Re: Banco Cuscatlan/W-9 form


This pretty well sums it up. from:
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/fw9.pdf

Purpose of the Form
A person who is required to file an information return with the
IRS must obtain your correct taxpayer identification number (TIN)
to report, for example, income paid to you, real estate
transactions, mortgage interest you paid, acquisition or
abandonment of secured property, cancellation of debt, or
contributions you made to an IRA.



--- In panamaforum at yahoogroups.com, "reedmyrna" wrote:
>
> We have been informed by Cuscatlan that our account will be closed.
We
> refused to sign the W-9 form supplied by Citibank--who purchased
> Cuscatlan.
>
> Myrna
>

pedro says on Apr 19, 2008, 10:09:

Noel, which city are you living in?

It may be most efficient if you have a personal introduction through another PBHer, and go to a branch where they already have opened accounts for foreigners.

Make sure you mention to the bank employee about the CDT, and that you want to open it immediately for x million pesos.

I'm with HSBC at the moment... they have internet banking at no extra cost. There is a bill paying option online, which has so far turned out to be a damp squib. I tried paying a couple of different bills with valid references, and it gave an error that wouldn't let me do the payment.

que nota!

Noelito40 says on Apr 19, 2008, 10:21:

Thanks Pedro, but HSBC were one of the banks that turned me down, (branch near Palatino in Bogota) and this was after I told them that I´d be opening a CDT with them and I told them how much I´d putin it, and that I´d be opening it immediately...

I always thought I was a pretty average person, but I´m beginning to think the banks must be thinking I´m a bit of a Scarface!! haha ;-)

Noelito

tomtom33 says on Apr 19, 2008, 12:03:

If one wanted a banking relationship for the purposes of getting a loan in the future, you might want to examine the kinds of loans available in Colombia and the rates of interest. These loans are usurious to say the very least. You would be better off taking a cash advance on a credit card.

I will never say never. But I highly doubt that I would ever want any kind of loan in Colombia for any reason ever.

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 19, 2008, 12:09:

That's true tomtom....... there are reasons to have a bank account and company in colombia depending on your situation though. There can be some strong advantages.

Noelito40 says on Apr 19, 2008, 12:38:

Frank is right, I too hope the day never comes when I have to get a loan from a Colombian bank, their rates would have you thinking you´d gone to sleep and woken up in Harare!! but if you want to invest here or do any form of purchasing, or bill paying, it´s best to have an account here...

Noelito

britabroad says on Apr 19, 2008, 12:43:

Noelito
You were saying that the interest rates in Colombia were better than in Ireland. I only get 2% interest paid here on a Savings Account, so that may not be the case. Some UK current accounts pay up to 5% at the moment. So my cash stays in the UK and is transferred when I need it.
If you're looking to live here long term and play the game by informing Revenue and Customs that you've quit the country you will need a Colombian account to show that your finances are being utilised here etc. There may be tax advantages in that, depending on your situation.
I was totally transparent about emigrating here, but my UK bank cancelled my credit card as soon as they knew that I wouldn't be resident in the UK. I also used to have free ATM transactions abroad, but they stopped that too.

Leave the big stick at home...carry a cannon!

Noelito40 says on Apr 19, 2008, 12:50:

I´m currently getting 5% (4% net) in Ireland and that´s one of the best around. In colombia I can get 9-10% on a CDT deposited for one year. (Of course once you take away inflation, the real rate in Colombia is much less, but in Ireland it´s as good as zero!), I´ll have a diversified portfolio alright and the CDT will form the most conservative (low risk/return) part, the rest will be srepad around...

To be honest britabroad I am looking at being long term in Colombia so want to start off some businesses or investments here..

Noelito

Frank Rizzo says on Apr 19, 2008, 12:58:

I hear ya Noelito...on being diverse with investments..

As far as real estate, i couldn't agree more...than buying right, and continuing to buy, for a future if you want to live there.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 19, 2008, 18:38:

Noelito,

I've just been looking at Davivienda's CDT interest rates:

For an investment of 100 - 500 million over a 356 - 539 day period you are going to get 7.9%. 500 million or more and you will get 8.1%.

From what you have said and the rates you are aspiring to, this doesn't seem too bad given the troublesome alternative,

Or am I missing something?

La vida es una rutina

Noelito40 says on Apr 19, 2008, 19:33:

These are reasonable rates alright, but they are 2% less than the other banks...

Noelito

aztec says on Apr 20, 2008, 04:28:

rjstuff says on Friday April 18th, 2008 10:17:

"How does it work if your spouse is Colombian? Would the spouse be able to open an account and then add you as a joint account holder - couldn't that work? I was able to add my wife to my bank accounts by just using her SSN, I would think that we could do the reverse in Colombia with her adding me to her account (that she opens first) after I have my cedula. Any comments on this approach or am I singing an old tune?"

Exactly the way my wife and I opened an account with Citibank. It has been active for at least six or seven years. We have had no problems transferring large amounts of funds from the USA to the Bogotá bank. We have also transfered large amount of money back from Citibank Bogotá to Georgia.

Must admit when we first attempted to open an account were met with bewildered looks from the bankers. Seems that many if not most local bank (branch) managers have never seen a foreign investor much less talked with one. You simply need to be patient until you find someone in the institution who understands and is equipped to handle your problems.

Compounding Colombian Banking frustrations is the world wide push to make all financial transitions transparent. Documentation for financial transactions may become even more burdensome.

Germany currently has presidency of both the EU and the G8. Chancellor Merkel of Germany is applying great pressure in Europe to open up the process and gain control of off shore banking. For example, Liechtenstein long know as a tax haven is her latest target for greater transparency.

gringoloid says on Apr 20, 2008, 10:07:

can anyone comment on citibank in Medellin?

if your comment is favorable, would you keep thousands of dollars, in pesos of course, in the account for months on end?

mranderson says on Apr 20, 2008, 10:16:

So I can have my wife open an account in citibank in medellin and then add me to her account? Is citibank better than the others for international transfers?

gringoloid says on Apr 20, 2008, 10:30:

mranderson................i think gator is correct in having a good relationship with your bank. citibank may be better, especially if you have an account in the states.

sending a bank wire through four banks in three different countries is more like an art, rather than a science.

i just had one going to the channel islands in england that was lost for 2 months and it would still be lost if i didn't find the money myself. i'm surprised barclays even talked to me, being that i don't have an account there.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 20, 2008, 10:38:

G'loid - don't wish to be pedantic, but the Channel Islands are not part of England, nor are they part of the United Kingdom. Channel Islanders are however, British.

La vida es una rutina

aztec says on Apr 20, 2008, 10:42:

I don't know if Citibank in better. I believe others here have had success with other banks. But, I do believe that all transfers back and forth between the USA and Colombia go through Citibank New York.

For example I use BOA in Georgia but transfers still go from my BOA through Citibank N.Y.

Have you tried a savings account. Sometimes that is much easier to open.

gringoloid says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:13:

alma, duly noted. my vendor there speaks with a heavy british accent and he's in St Heleir in Jersey. It's a good thing i didn't say France or you'd really be upset.

I don't know if i'll be doing anymore business with him as i have to go through 4 banks to get to his account.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:18:

Upset? moi?

What's a heavy British accent? ;)

La vida es una rutina

gringoloid says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:40:

alma..........i don't know but it's fun to talk with them, especially the women.

I worked for a British company in the states once............everything was understood...........except for one man born and raised in London that I didn't understand a word he was saying.

Alma del Norte says on Apr 20, 2008, 11:45:

Dik ai chavvy, must've been the motown slosher . Thaat's right guvnor!

No doubt a Cockney geezer - I have that problem myself.

La vida es una rutina

Rikito says on Apr 20, 2008, 16:12:

I suggest you all try Citibank Colombia. I was in the country for one week and I opened an account with no problems. Cedula...yes. Proof of stuff from other banks...yes. Where is the depsoit money coming from...yes. Paying a fee for every stupid thing like online services...nope, not a peso. Customer service...it's a way of life for them. They made me feel welcome here and even gave me some adive on what to look for whne buying a house in Colombia.

One more thing...when I had prolblems with a money transfer from yhe U.S. to Colombia, Citibank called my U.S. bank to find out what was happening and how to solve the problem.

It is not life that matters, but the journey.

Noelito40 says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:11:

Rikito, I must be living in a parrallel universe Colombia as my experience of Citibank was the complete opposite!!

Someone earlier in the thread commented that opening an account here was a crap shoot, and I´m beginning to believe that, the next bank I go to I´m going to bring a set of dice rather than my cedula...!!!

Noelito

Ctg Bound says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:15:

Noelito40,

I have friends who have both positive and negative dealings with Citibank even though they had a Citibank account in the US.

A crap shoot it is.

tomtom33 says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:25:

When I wired money to Bancolombia, it had to go through Citibank in New York. When I wired money to BBVA, it went straight to BBVA.

Noelito40 says on Apr 20, 2008, 17:41:

I can belive that tomtom and it may have to do with the intermediary banks. For me for example I have to transfer from Euros to US$ and then to pesos, so 2 cambios and 3 banks to take their piece of the action, but if I have an account with a Colombian bank which has a Euro account with their intermediary bank, I can cut out the US$ angle completely, transfer directly from euros to pesos and save a fortune (This is one of the reasons why I was so annoyed with HSBC´s refusal to allow me an account as they have such a euro account, with their intermediary Lloyds.)

Noelito

Noelito40 says on Apr 24, 2008, 09:26:

Just an update...I spoke with a member of my wife´s family who had a friend of a friend in Banco De Credito... so I called into them yesterday, gave them all the same papers I gave the other banks and today, just 1 day later, I have a fully functional account in Banco de Credito, so it seems it´s palanca, palanca, palanca, ...not what you know but who you know!!

One other point to clarify is that I assumed that if your Colombian account had an intermediary bank with a euro account you could transfer diurectly from euros to pesos and save on the dollar exchange rate, but I´m told that it is the law here that any incoming foreign currency transactions must be denominated in US Dollars, (I assume so that the BdlR can calculate the amount of foreign investment)...

At least there is a happy ending to this part of the journey...but I´m not naive enough to think that this will be the last problem I have with banks in Colombia!!???

Noelito

lpdiver says on Apr 24, 2008, 14:58:

Noelito40,

I believe this is what Gator was referring to when he said that one needs to develope a relationship with a banker. I would further that relationship with a lunch every so often. As you indicated you do expect future problems and it might be nice to be able to stand on your own in the future.

t

"cook some rice!"

Alma del Norte says on Apr 26, 2008, 22:21:

Well I'm glad Noelito got sorted.

Looks like Davivienda, however, want to leave me well and truly up shit-creek without a paddle...

I went into the branch and whispered into the adviser's ear the amount I wanted to transfer into my account from the UK. "Yup!" she said, "no problem" and gave me a photocopy of all the relevant codes and account numbers:

I suggested I might need to provide some more information. She didn't know, but disappeared for 15 minutes and came back with a list. Apparently, I have to have my account for 4 months. I have no idea why, I don't know what that will prove when all I want to do is dump a large sum of money in a savings account.

On transfer, I have to supply:

Extactos Bancarios
Certificacion Laboral
"Impuestos del Exterior"

and 2 other things which I can't make out now. Oh, apparently, these things don't have to be translated, so even if a "certificacion laboral" exists and I have one, they don't need to be able to read it. As I tried to get more information on "what and why", she was obviously becoming bored with the process, she didn't have the answers and I was thinking; "well, if you don't want my business". With hindsight, I should have persisted and asked to speak with the horse's mouth, but banks just aren't my scene if you know what I mean!

What do you think will happen if I just transfer the dosh, anyway? Surely they won't refuse the business? Any other suggestions vis a vi other banks?

La vida es una rutina

robi666 says on Apr 26, 2008, 22:54:

Noelito,
I may be missing something...
I perfectly understand the problem.
Did you try to find out if BBVA has an account in Euro in Europe?

Another PBHer had a problem with the exchange rate of HSBC from Euros and wanted to open a BBVA account.

I recently (three days ago) had a problem with BBVA exchange rate from Euros. So, I am going to realize if they have an account in Euro in Spain. They know nothing about it in my bank in Medellin...

I could find this on the Internet as intermediary for BBVA Colombia, but it needs to be verified:
CUENTA CORRIENTE No. 419007760
BBVA: Madrid España
SWIFT: BBVA ES MM

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Ctg Bound says on Apr 27, 2008, 05:27:

Alma del Norte,

I was told to transfer money overseas from my Davienda account, I needed it to be open for 6 months, maybe its two months more as it is a business account OR I am sending money out of the Country not into Colombia.

I transferred money overseas a week after opening it, the bank manager rang head office and got permission, the manager told them what I wanted to do and would only open an account with them if I could start the overseas transactions straight away, maybe you should try that.

If you do get permission to transfer money in or out, MAKE SURE you speak to the branch on each occasion to get a good F/X rate, my first rate was about 50 pesos less the market rate, I have done about a dozen overseas transfers since then and now get just a few pesos less the F/X rate.

Noelito40 says on Apr 28, 2008, 10:50:

Alma del Norte, sounds exactly like my experience. They all welcome your account and make it sound like it´s all plain sailing, then if you want to deposit a relatively large sum (in Colombian terms) they get cold feet. It´s then that they tell you you need a banking history to have an account. As a few posters have mentioned, they seem paranoid about any foreign funds as it might be linked to dodgy money??, and yes they will refuse the business??!!

In particular Davivienda staff seemed particularly ignorant of accounts for foreigners, I just think that the guys in the local branches (and I was dealing with the manager of the branch!) have little or no experience of foreign account holders/transactions. Maybe if you go to the head office of Davivienda you might have more joy, but I reckon, without a personal introduction from a native with an account in Davivienda, your chances are slim…

If they do open an account for you and allow you immediate deposits from abroad, apart from the documents you mention, I would get a statement of income from your UK company, or if your deposit is the result of a house sale or legacy, you will need a statement of origin of funds. (I had mine from Ireland, all in English, and none of the banks asked for it to be translated)

As I mentioned previously I did get a personal introduction in Banca de Credito, had my account within a day, and initiated a funds transfer the following day (funds should hit my account late this week).

Robi…

Re direct transfer from Euros, my understanding was…
Open an account here with an international bank who has an intermediary with whom they have a Euro account, so you could transfer directly from euros to pesos, so only one exchange rate.

I was then told that…
All funds transfers into Colombia must be transferred into US $, so can´t avoid this, so it´s euros to US$ and then to pesos…
If this is right, then it´s academic whether BBVA has a euro intermediary or not.

I´m expecting my funds to be transferred this week so I´ll keep you all posted on the rates, costs, etc

Noelito

robi666 says on Apr 28, 2008, 10:59:

Noelito, I asked it because almost three years ago I transfered money to buy my apartment into a Conavi (now Bancolombia) account. They had two different intermediary bank, one for Euros transfer (in Europe) and one for Dollars transfer (in USA).

I do not use that account anymore, and things may be changed in three years. But there was not problem to transfer directly from Euros to Pesos.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

Noelito40 says on Apr 28, 2008, 11:22:

Interesting Robi, but as I´m only here 6 months I can´t speak for the rules 3 years ago? it´s probably be worth your while talking to this bank, as eliminating the dollar cambio from the equation saves a fair bit of money in any transfer...

Noelito

Alma del Norte says on Apr 28, 2008, 14:05:

Ctg Bound, Noelito

Thanks for the information guys.

La vida es una rutina