Banking in Medellin / Opening a account

Harry says on Mar 30, 2005, 18:15:

I had the same problem as you. None of the Colombian banks would talk to me. I went to Citi Bank in Cali and they got it done.

The problem is that the bank has to have some verification or in other words know the source of the your money. I hope you have some doucumentation for example bank records showing that you have had this money in a savings account, sell of realestate ect.

Citi bank called to my source, my employer in the US to verifiy all my documentation. I also had to have a visa, cedula and a reference in Colombia.

This process took about 5 to seven days. Citi bank then deposited the check in my new account but held it for 30 days before I had access to the money. They did pay me interest for the 30 days.

I wish you luck

Harry

Harry

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bbattiste says on Mar 30, 2005, 18:40:

Use a bank card This may not help because I still live and work in the states and intend to live here, but my wife is Colombia waiting for a visa. But she has a ATM card I gave her and she uses when she needs money....I also used it to pay for the wedding, rings ect.. I leave just a small amount of money in it and transfer all money to it through the internet from a larger account.

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dwmte says on Mar 30, 2005, 18:52:

california... i don't remember saying it was easy. way back in '89 i had to wait for months...they thought i was a dope dealer/traffiker. i finally went to the bank manager and we had a long talk about it.

they wanted to know why some gringo was in medellin bringing in a lot of money in the country. it wasn't until they sent someone to our warehouse to examine what i was mfg that they finally changed their mind. i kind of felt they'ld be past that by now, sorry.

if you go back there, ask for jimmy samuel. he is very reasonable. the last time i was in the office, 2000, the gerente was maria cecillia gaviria gomez. they move mgrs around alot, she might not be there.

good luck.

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tlop says on Mar 31, 2005, 13:07:

Business Visa/Bank Account I am hoping to move to Colombia soon, with the intention of opening a business. If I have a business visa, will I still have a very difficult time opening and wiring money to a Colombian bank account?

Thanks,

Dan

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viewpoint says on Apr 1, 2005, 02:29:

I doubt that any bank in the USA would negoiate (on the spot) a cashier's check drawn on another bank unless you had an account at the bank you are depositing the funds. Attempting to negoiate the check in Colombia (or any foreign country) would (of course) be not doable even if you had an account in that foreign bank (which you don't).

You can open a bank account in the name of your girlfirend and yourself. Your girlfriend will have to act as principal on the bank account until your have some form of Colombian residence visa and a cedula. The easiest bank (in my opinion) to work with is Conavi for this situation. Go to the Zona Rosa branch of Conavi (by the Hotel Park 10) and ask for Diana. She speaks no english but your girlfriend can work out the details. Save your cashier's check for deposit into your bank in the USA that it was drawn on (if they will take it).

Forget anything you know about banking and business in the USA as it doesn't wash in Colombia. Just try to make sense out of their non-sense (it's hard to do). In hindsight, I can say that in 1999 I wandered around Medellin trying to employ my USA business savy only to run into solid concrete walls at every turn. Progress in Colombia for a foreign person is baby steps at a time. Sometimes it takes days (or weeks) to do a task that can be done in the USA in an hour.

Colombia is beautiful and a great place to live but as a foreign person the immigration, banking and business regulations are almost not worth the effort. Most other countries welcome you and your investment but Colombia doesn't. In Colombia every problem has a solution but a foreign person (new to the country) doesn't have a clue on how to solve it.

Finally my Colombian business friends took pity on me and I soon found out that almost all of my problems or difficulties could be solved by one telephone call by them to someone that I was trying to work with or do business with. They could cross bridges by their knowledge of local people (contacts) and business requirements that I couldn't have solved in my lifetime.

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dwmte says on Apr 1, 2005, 04:06:

bank accounts... i remember one thing that helped me. and the problem of getting an account appears not to have changed in these past 15-16 years. it was a pain in the ass way back then.

what i did was go to the government office down behind the mayors office in central medellin and get a number N.I.T. now i can't tell you anymore what those letters mean and i'm not gonna dig it out of storage just to find out. it's like a social security number...all colombians have one. i got it originally, to make it legal to pay my employees' taxes, but found it a great help when i got tired of the b.s. getting a bank account.

the problem of an account was further frustrated by the fact that they didn't want to give it to me in the branch i wanted. ????? bancolombia priviously BIC, told me after months of frustration, i could have an account at a branch downtown. i told them no, i wanted my account in oviedo, near to my home. absolutely not. they told me. i couldn't believe it. non rule rules. they just made em up as we went along. finally out of much anger and more frustration, i stopped the bank manager in the lobby and said we have to have a talk.

we went to his office and after mucha lucha, he conceded and i got my account. can you figure it out? i can't. Oh! i remember telling him that if i didn't get an account, it wasn't gonna be because they thought i was a dope dealer (they did). i told him to come see my business, it wasn't drugs.

good luck.

dw

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Hunter says on Apr 1, 2005, 06:40:

viewpoint Diana at Conavi Zona Rosa is very helpfull person, although I haven't been in there for over a year, its a small world.

Hunter

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calif en la selva says on Apr 1, 2005, 14:20:

thanks for the help! Finally we opened a bank account with Banco Ocidental!! I had them call my empoloyer in Ecuador, they verified that I get paid from them and not drugs ( as they might have thought)
Anyways I opened it up with 300,000 pesos and I can transfer money from my bank in the states electronically W/O problems and no limit.
Tomorrow night we have tickets to see Diomedes Diaz in concert!!
We took care of Notary public with signed and stamped paper work for the wedding, we then went and got our rings ordered!!
So all in all it was a very good day as we accomplished 3 things in one day ( a miricale for Colombia) so we're celebrating!!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 1, 2005, 14:26:

N.I.T. Nùmero de Identificación Tributaria, that'd be your tax id. I wonder if that'd be enough for me to opena bank account in Colombia.
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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viewpoint says on Apr 1, 2005, 15:19:

Better check with that bank again regarding transfer amount limits because I think you got bad information or maybe you mis-interpreted what they said. My recollection is that transfers exceeding about $3,000 US per month (more or less) trigger a reporting requirement with the central bank. I have to file a Form 4 or something like that when I do larger transfers with the central bank within 90 days of the transfer and you better not be late even one day. In fact, you may need advance permission from your "new" bank before they can handle a transfer of more than the $3,000. Another thing to watch is that some banks can put these "smaller" wire transfers directly into your account without your physical presence while others require that you pick up the check in el Centro personally and transport it to the bank for deposit. If you wire transfer the funds in your girlfriends name or another trusted person then they can pick the check up but it will be made out to them and must be deposited into an account in their name.

Nothing is f___ing easy with Colombian banking. A good friend of mine that speaks fluent english works as a branch manager at Banco Ocidental but they have many branches. Hunter can better articulate this than me.

One way around direct wire transfers is www.viamericas.com as they can put the funds direct in any account at any bank they have relations with (which is almost all) in Colombia but they are pricey. I have never had to use them but I have people I know that do mainly for small transfers of money. They will negoiate a lower fee for larger transfers but they are still more pricey than a direct wire transfer.

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dwmte says on Apr 1, 2005, 16:07:

viewpoint... i'm not at all familiar with 'regulations' on monies transfers regarding dollar limits. between 1989 and 1992, i transferred more than U.S. $300,000.00 from a brokerage account through city bank N.Y. to my account in Oviedo and never once had to report it in some special way. i was not a permanent resident, only a tourist. i flew every three months to panama to renew my visa and never had an issue about anything. i don't know why i should, i invested/spent all that money in colombia. they should be so lucky that every tourist would spend so much money.

dw

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viewpoint says on Apr 2, 2005, 03:24:

DWMTE I have no knowledge about the regulations between 1989 and 1992 as I didn't arrive until 1999 but large foreign currency money transfers into Colombia are not that simple for foreign people or for Colombians. They require disclosure (source of funds) and documentation. First before a bank will process the transfer they need to perform their due diligence making sure that the source of funds is legal. As an example you can transfer funds to pay for real estate without taxation or fees but you need to provide copies of the transaction to the bank for advance approval and file the Form 4 with the central bank within 90 days of the transfer to avoid the tax. I have accounts with two banks and a fiduciary who have processed transfers many times for me and that has been my experience. My secretary files the Form 4 documents and my memory is that the penalty or tax for not filing is something like 4-5%.

In the case of Colombians they (I beleive) may have a tougher bridge to cross as Colombia by statue taxes "global income" like the USA does but doesn't enforce the law. However, when Colombians are the receivers of large money transfers of foreign currency they must also prove that the source of funds is legal to the satification of the regulators or face a substanial tax imposed on the funds. Someone recently told me the tax was 30% if you couldn't satisify the regulatory requirement. I beleive that the regulators are looking to tax offshore (untaxed) income of Colombians being repatriated back into Colombia.

Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the current regulations could weigh in here.

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dwmte says on Apr 2, 2005, 03:50:

morning viewpoint.... it looks like the col. govt has simply created a way to put their hands on some of the 'loot', doesn't it.

foreigners wouldn't go for it for a minute, 30% of the cash...hardly! had they put their hands on our funds, i would have pulled our manufacturing operations outta colombia in a heartbeat.

i guess it's the price for 'laundering' money. they also used to allow the 'capos' to build those huge appts/condos between envigado and medellin as the price for repatriating those narco dollars. once the monies were invested in real property, they were miraculouly clean.

dw

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viewpoint says on Apr 2, 2005, 05:11:

DWMTE The Colombian banks make more money just lending money at 14-16% (more or less) than anyone could make investing in real estate in Colombia. As I have posted before Panama City is a better bet for real estate investing or operating a business (in my opinion). The cost of new construction is equal or less per mt2 in Panama and there are still no real estate taxes there for 20 years on new construction with long term low interest rate money readily available. In Panama City the wages are higher and the standard of living is better (for most people). There are over a hundred (for real) banks in Panama and the US dollar (for better or worse) is the country's currency.

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dwmte says on Apr 2, 2005, 07:06:

you're right viewpoint... i had cause to deal with panamanian (and offshore ) banking facilities in the late 80's and early 90's....much easier and a lot less painful than their colombian equivlalents.

as for business...it may be easier and better to run a business in the canal zone, but let's face it....panama city aint medellin.

dw.

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viewpoint says on Apr 2, 2005, 10:09:

DWMTE I sure agree with you 100% of that point as the quality of life is better in Medellin than Panama City. It's just more difficult to make a living for the average person in Medellin than in Panama City. The climate, the city and the people are the best.

Panama City is rapidly becoming the "new" Miami.

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dwmte says on Apr 3, 2005, 07:02:

that's very interesting, viewpoint... i never would have imagined, nay, invisioned, panama becoming the new miami...

granted, it's been years--early 90's--since i had dealings in panama, but back then, panama could have been identified in two terms...black and jewish.

the population was primarily black (canal zone) and the businesses were almost all jewish owned.

now you describe it as (if i may) latino. incredible change.

are you running business in panama? what?

i know that it's very difficult to break into business in medellin. it's all but impossible. there is a status quo there that is protected like the family jewels. the rich and landed have a thing going that they do not want to change. there is little to no thought given to the have nots....or to be more clear, there is no altruismo.

there is a selfishness amongst the 'landed' class in colombia that bespeaks a separation between the economic stratas that will not soon change. the have's think of themselves as almost divinely appointed above the have nots. there is a class system built of steel, and as i've observed over the last 15-16 years, it's not gonna change at all, anytime soon. what do you think?

i would guess it's different in panama--at least in part--because everyone there are transplants...so everyone is jockying for position and hopefully, wealth/success, on a more even playing field.

tell me more of what you've discovered there.

dw

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viewpoint says on Apr 3, 2005, 11:05:

DWMTE First of all I would like to state that I don't understand your term that "Panama could have been identified in two terms...black and jewish". I did not know that any latin amercia country including Panama or Colombia could be defined (or identified) by the color or religion of it's people. I have plently of black and jewish friends from Colombia and Panama that I have always though of as Latinos.

Your post seems to imply they are not latino if they are black or jewish ? You need to make another trip to Panama and smell the roses. It sounds like you are getting the City of Colon mixed up with the term "Canal Zone". If you go back into history to the 40s & 50s Colon was a beautiful city much nicer (at that time) than Panama City. I am sure that all the people in Panama regardless or race or religion consider themselves latinos. Therefore, in that respect there has been no change.

Make a trip to Panama and see what has happened in terms of infastructure improvements, development of residential, business and commerical properties combined with tourism development throughout Panama. It will take your breath away. Panama is a very small country and population compared to Colombia but they have a better formula for attracting immigrants, capital to their country than Colombia has and their progress in recent years is testiment to the success of these progressive policies.

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dwmte says on Apr 3, 2005, 11:23:

sorry if i offended... the comment was not meant ethnocentrically...not my style. simply an observation and a posture resulting from questioning business owners. in that era.

as for colon, never been there, just in the side of the canal zone and the fort. most of the people i encountered were afrolatino (is that better) and all the business owners when asked of their origins replied, "i'm jewish" that being said, i have no further defense on that subject. if an offence has been experienced, it has been taken, not given.

but let us not labor foolish issues...rather enjoy enligntning subjects and matters more akin to greater understanding. as i had stated, years have passed since i was in the canal zone and it was a rather rugged waste land at the time. in fact, on one occassion i was there three days after the u.s. invasion...that was a real mess.

they were using 'smart' bombs that weren't really smart, landing in some cases, two blocks off destination. areas between the canal zone and the fort were completely destroyed. a mostly afro-latino area of squalor housing, completely demolished at a cost of a great deal of innocent human life. a true tragedy. up at the fort, every building, was covered with bullet straifing. it must have been a really bloody shootout, short, but serious.

my wife and i stayed in one of the really nice hotels by the banks and that area wasn't even touched. it was as if there had been no conflict. yet, blocks away, it looked like central baghdad after the invasion.

now, you tell me it has changed into a 'nice looking' place. sounds really interesting.

an interesting story...about 1973, (to be continued)

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viewpoint says on Apr 3, 2005, 11:40:

Well the jewish still control many of the successful businesses in Panama because god gave them more brains that the rest of us. The canal zone is the "zone" from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

Yes, I too was there my first time shortly after the invasion as the housing area you spoke of was certainly damaged by the invasion. The housing you speak of still exists in much its old state of disrepair.

http://www.panaprojects.com/city_properties.html

Here is a few of the over fifty (50) high rise condos under various stages of contruction in Panama City.
http://www.conkasa.com/
http://www.pacifichills.com.pa/
http://www.habitatsrealty.com/

Here's a link to an article on the new 32 million dollar Johns Hopkins Medical Facility that has just been completed in Panama City.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/dome/0206/whats_happening3.cfm

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dwmte says on Apr 3, 2005, 17:14:

i dont have time in this particular moment to access... those particular sites, i will later. but for now, i find this totally interesting...you being there in the same epoch and the rememberances. the same areas.

what/ pray tell, were you doing there in 1989, i know i have an excuse, what's yours.
i even had to spend christmas there that year. the wife flew baack to envigado to be with the family. i asked at the hotel desk if i could borrow the plactic snow man to bring to my room to reduce the sadness at being away from my family. the new in colombia, and the old back in california. and me, in a hotel in panama city, not terribly long after the u.s. had taken over the place, and i had to go there every three months for a number of years.

oh well. i was first there in 1973. that's the story i noted above, to be continued.... that's comin up shortly. i just don't want to get cut off by this damn posting timing mechanism.

dw

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viewpoint says on Apr 4, 2005, 04:51:

DWMTE My ex-wife was Panamanian from a little village outside Santiago in the interior. Her and her relatives dragged me all over Panama to everyplace a road would take us. This went on every year for several years. I remember right after the invasion they took me on my first trip directly from the airport to the "red zone" in the old part of Panama City where no americans were allowed (off limits). Within hours of arriving I am drinking and dancing with Panama's best girls with US military guys who also didn't pay any attention to the red zone restrictions. These guys (GIs) looked so tough that they must have ate nails for breakfast, lunch and dinner (no one f___ked with them). Yes, at that momment in time Panama was certainly under USA control and we had widespread support from the locals for that mission.

I didn't need a bodyguard as long as I was married to her. jajajaja She was 95 lbs of dynamite with a damn short fuse. When she got mad anyone in the same proximity ran for the exit especially if she had found a weapon. She hated men but tolerated me. I once saw her throw a man over two tables and land on him with his back to the floor and her hands around his throat because he patted her butt. He was smart enough to appologise immediately and his life was spared. I later escaped that relationship with my life thank god !!!

The invasion was a turning point for Panamanian vs. USA relations as they greatly improved after that event to the closeness that exists now (out of respect that the USA would fight for their freedom). I do not think that there is much difference between Panama and Puerto Rico (a US territory) in their relationships with the USA.

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dwmte says on Apr 4, 2005, 06:24:

i'm still gonna write that story... about my first visit to panama in '73...just not now, maybe this afternoon when i get back from working.

your escape from death sounds memorable. what happened to the wife? is she still being mean? i've had one of those.

are you living in panama now? from a post of platano's it sounded like you were working on a construction project somewhere in panama.

did you see the movies: sniper and sniper 2? they were filmed in panama. or at least sniper was. great film. it showed me more of panama than the 'zone'. which i saw repeatedly every three months for nearly 3 years. i would always go up to the fort and buy crafts from the cuna indians who would be selling there, around the glorietta near the theatre. the indians changed a lot between the early 70's and the early 90's.

we're currently in daytona beach and hope to move back to medellin later this year. we'll be there for a couple of months this summer just to visit with the family and friends.

dw

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viewpoint says on Apr 4, 2005, 07:15:

My Panamanian ex-wife lives in Phoenix, Arizona and at 55 years old looks like she is 35. She's single and available to those with a strong heart, quick on their feet and lots of patience. Me, I ended up with the best part and that's a great relationship with my step-daughter who didn't follow her mother footsteps (bad habits).

There was a lot of gold treasure (jewelry) that changed hands in Panama of the years for the indians in the interior.

I have a home in Panama and one in Colombia.

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viewpoint says on Apr 4, 2005, 12:53:

Tinto The Johns Hopkins facility is all new and huge in size located in Punta Pacifica in the same area where they just completed a new enclosed airconditioned mall and several new highrise condominum buildings. It's impressive I will say that for sure. I was told in Panama that it may be a franchise using the Johns Hopkins name.

http://www.pacifichills.com.pa/projects.php?module=details&idProyecto=5

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arturo says on Apr 7, 2005, 04:57:

colombian politics prefer swiss accounts

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dwmte says on Apr 7, 2005, 14:27:

viewpoint... back in '73, i was at the tail end of a buying trip that took me across europe, lebanon, syria, israel, ethiopia, nigeria, ivory coast, senagal, brazil, venezuela, colombia, panama, guatemala, mexico and finally back to berkeley, calif.

it was a buying trip for a new store--my third--which would be opening about a month before christmas that year.

when i landed in panama, of course, i had to go see the canal. back then it kinda looked like the french quarter of new orleans. old iron banisters on second floor balconys etc.

well, im walking down the street and come to a stop light and i'm standing there waiting to cross, when up on my right side walk to pairs of legs. at first i notice the sandals and bare feet topped by bbands and bands of beads around the ankles. there were some tatoos on the calfs and further up some trousers that were decorated, then came the costumes...strange to me. and then the necks which were covered with beads and beaded collars. and their shirts with stiched designs that covered them.

as i continue up, i saw these large loop earrings and beaded loops from the ear lobs and round faces that were tatooed. then, i noticed that the hair had all been shaved off except for a round patch maybe 5 or 6 " in diameter. from this 'patch' hair maybe 6-9" long, hung.

i stood there rivited for a minute staring like a fool at both of these indians. then i noticed the male looking dead into my eyes with a rather wise glint that somehow said to me, "...you think we look wierd? check yourself"

the 73 panama story.

dw

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viewpoint says on Apr 7, 2005, 17:08:

DWMTE jajajajajajajajajajajajaja !!! Kuna (Cuna) indians meet Berkley hippie ? jajajajajaja That had to be an eye opener !!!

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VanMan says on Apr 9, 2005, 09:40:

creating a bank account
Well, I can only tell you from my experience. I went to Bancolombia, toa branch that was outside of downtown. I was told I could get a u.s. dollar account there. Wrong. Found out that I could get a peso account there if I had a foreigner ID from DAS. I went to the branch in the North talked to the manager (beautiful tall amazon blonde from medellin) regarding the u.s. dollar account. well, i could get it, but it required me to deposit a minimum of $5000 in u.s. funds. well, i'm poor so what i should do is get a foreigner id and come back and get a peso account. i can wire money from canada and if its under 10,000 i should be ok thats what she said.

any other opinions, comments on this?

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viewpoint says on Apr 9, 2005, 10:10:

VanMan I don't know why you would need a US$ account in Medellin anyway as the incoming wire transfers are converted into pesos so that you can deposit them into a local peso account.

In six years I have never had a necessity to pay anything in Colombia with US dollars. If fact, the street value of any foreign currency is a lot less than the actual government exchange rates.

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dwmte says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:45:

i really feel lucky.... i had to deal with pain in the ass over my oviedo bancolombia account but it was purely political b.s. not regulations. and, i finally got it. that was 15 or 16 years ago. now, i hear about you folks going through all manner of crap just to have a bank account. what a drag.

it's the same thing on getting married and getting your papers and your wife's papers at the embassy. for us, it was a three day deal and we had green (pink) card in hand and out the door. now, i read the horror stories and really sympathize with all of you. it's like going to das now to deal with the embassy. pity.

dw

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VanMan says on Apr 9, 2005, 19:23:

us account Well the u.s., account is not based in Colombia but actually in Panama,cayman islands etc. if you had a lot of money (which i dont) you can open up a u.s. account and transfer to pesos when the u.s. dollar is high.

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viewpoint says on Apr 10, 2005, 04:22:

VanMan Well I guess that makes sense. Plently of Colombians have US$ accounts in Colombia and elsewhere because of the instability of their own peso currency. BanColombia has an office in Panama City as do over 100 more banks from all over the world.

ScotiaBank (Bank of Novia Scotia) has an office in Panama City and is a good bank with offices throughout the Caribbean and many Latin American countries (not Colombia). Check link to their internation locations.

http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/index/0,,LIDen_SID35,00.html

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