Back in one piece

Peter (Moderator) (Dev team) says on Dec 1, 2006, 17:00:

Thanks, great story!
Thanks, great story!

Poor but snappy

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 01:45:

recueldos de Cali para ti

http://www.calirentals.net/

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 01:49:

.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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aztec says on Dec 3, 2006, 04:43:

I don't remember... ...seeing streets in Cali like the last one pictured. Even the poor sections were better taken care of when I was there last. One doesn't have to be rich to remove the rubbish.

Looks like a war zone.

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goin_south says on Dec 3, 2006, 04:51:

I remember seeing a vast part of Cali, like these... and, it wasn't because they were 'under construction'.

Vast? Why? Because my gf took me through the middle of town, from one end to the other... o',... from one Carrefour to the Other.

On the other hand, I remember seeing lots of places like this (top photo) in Medellin, because I think they are reconstructing much of that entire town... a good thing. Medellin will shortly (in jus a few short years) be a true World-Class City and Destination.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2006, 05:02:

I don't see the point publishing pictures like that. We all know that there are slums in every city in Colombia and everywhere in the world (well, almost everyehere, except here).

I don't go to those neighbourhoods. Since I'm not a gringo looking for a young third-world woman I have no business in the those parts of the town.

Cheers,
Desi



«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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aztec says on Dec 3, 2006, 05:42:

Desideria you are... ...correct about publishing the pictures on this site. The better course of action would be to send them to the mayor. Perhaps the thought of the whole world seeing them would motivate someone in his administration to be proactive in eliminating the problem.

Most politicians abhor negative publicity.

Before someone says that the mayor has bigger problems let me propose that community morale is directly affected by this visible lack of support from their elected government.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2006, 05:52:

aztec, there's a problem with sending those pictures to the mayor of Cali. He's blind.

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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aztec says on Dec 3, 2006, 06:06:

He's blind. You are not joking are you?

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fugdis says on Dec 3, 2006, 06:47:

nice Nice pics Arthur.That should keep everybody away.

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 3, 2006, 10:50:

El alcalde ciego No lie, the Mayor of Cali is blind. Of course that hasn't stopped him from robbing the city blind.

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bufalo says on Dec 3, 2006, 11:19:

I forgot about him being blind, glad to hear you had a good time.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor Avianca sucks major.

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 11:42:

slum tourism Elmo,i asked a Taxi driver to take me around there but he looked at me in disbelief and said "no me meto por alli! me bajan!"aztec,its no joke,the Mayor is blind as a Bat.Desi,am i only allowed to publish the pretty pictures of Cali?and whats wrong with looking for a "Third-World" Woman?it sure beats looking for a Gringa....anyday!

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2006, 12:03:

nothing wrong, arthur I was just explaining why I don't go to the olla de Cali. Isn't that where the pics were taken? or in Aguablanca? I don't even recognize the place. I don't care where you guys go to find your chicas, but if I were a guy I'd think twice before getting in a bar or whatever in one of those neighbourhoods. Especially if I were a gringo. Especially if I were alone.

Elmo, Arthur has made a special effort to find the absolutely most disgusting place in Cali to stop more gringos going there so that he can be the big frog in a little pond.

Cheers,
Desi


«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 12:31:

Desi in case you already have forgotten iam in the tourism buisness.so its not to my advantage to stop Gringos from comming here to Cali.neverless,i wouldnt mind being the big frog in the little pond....jijiji

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 3, 2006, 12:53:

You had me fooled there, Arthur so, you published these two photos of the worst part of the olla de Cali hoping to attract more tourists to that city? Perhaps you have some nice rentals in that area?

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Cerealkiller says on Dec 3, 2006, 13:01:

Im with Desi, These are the worse pics of Cali Ive ever seen. I have never been to a place like that other than to volunteer...and I have been to Cali many times. Id say many Caleños dont even know that place.
Good Job, to whoever posted that, youve mademost cringe at the thought of going to Cali.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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utopiacowboy says on Dec 3, 2006, 13:02:

Maldito, Elmo, that was hilarious. I think some of your recent posts have been the funniest you ever wrote.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 13:22:

Desi in that sector i have available 1br.apts.overlooking"La Olla" for 100,000 pesos per month.sorry ladies,next time i will stick with the pretty pictures.i see there is no interest on PBH of the other side of Cali.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 14:21:

all these pics.were taken in "El Centro" within walkin distance from the Bank District(Plaza Caizedo)

http://www.calirentals.net/

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 15:02:

i was just thinking,if we had a female moderator this thread would have been deleted a long time ago.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Cerealkiller says on Dec 3, 2006, 15:21:

Arthur if you have the pics clearly its because the place exists and there is no point in denying the obvious. However, saying that you want to show "the other side of cali" implies Cali has more than one side, why cant you just give a more objective account of what Cali is and show us cali's multiple sides?

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 3, 2006, 16:10:

Cerealkiller If you do a search on this site you will find plenty of positive post/pics. of Cali by me.Thats what gets me,Desi never gives me any credit for them.But when i post one negative view of Cali,Desi becomes all unglued.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Gomezman5 says on Dec 3, 2006, 17:10:

Cali.... It's been talked about quite a bit around here that Cali's general appearance has declined noticibly over the past few years. I will admit, I don't know because I have not been there since 2004. However, others here have commented including some time back, Desi herself. Even Rolos that regulularly visit Cali have told me that they think that while most people agree that Bogota is looking better than anytime in recent memory, they also feel it is happening at the expense of not making needed repairs and capital investments in Cali. This is not me talking. This is coming from both calenos and rolos (including my family) that live in Colombia. Similar comments have been echoed here.

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Crazy4Cali says on Dec 3, 2006, 17:49:

RE: Cali v. Bogota The general consensus I heard in Cali was that Uribe has been actively neglecting Cali in defernce to Medellin and Bogota. On top of that, the mayor robbing the coffers so it doesn't paint a very pretty picture (as Arthur's photography would indicate).

I should, however, point out that the entire town isn't spiralling down into the sewer. In my wife's old neighborhood, someone built an apartment where there used to be some run-down old garage and several houses have been remodeled so the street looks a lot brighter as a result.

Poco a poco, I suppose.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 4, 2006, 01:29:

i was just thinking,if we had a female moderator this thread !Arthur Brode).

Be not so sure about that.

Arthur, I have enjoyed the pics of Cali you have posted and have said so, maybe not in so many words, but I have commented all of them.
The olla de Cali has always existed, always been there, but never as bad these pictures show. There was an article in El Pais about this cancer growing in the middle of the city itself, as Arthur says, just a few blocks south from Plaza de Caycedo and it was dismal reading. According to that article, the place is like an infested wound and should be removed from the face of the city. I agree, 100%, if it's true that there are almost no regular families living there any longer, just druggies sleeping at the gaping doors to dilapidated houses, full of flies and thieves prowling on each others.

I have been rather vocal with my criticism how Cali has been on a downward spiral and deteriorating fast all the time during Uribe's administration; there's a general feeling that Cali and also Colombia's major port of exportation, Buenaventura on the Pacific, have been receiving the short end of the stick and not been allocated funds much needed to maintain the infrastructure and security much less for public improvements. Uribe has clearly favored Bogotá and Medellín and also the minor ports on the Atlantic.

There are plenty of new, nice neighbourhoods in the south of Cali, see if we can get some pics of the area around Valle del Lilí, Pance, Ciudad Jardin to offer a morer balanced view of Cali to the potential customers (tourists), Arthur; I'm afraid the pictures of the Olla may not be that productive in attracting customers.

Cheers,
Desi



«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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MacGringo says on Dec 4, 2006, 05:07:

Sure that wasn't taken in Beirut Arthur?...haha

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juancegomez says on Dec 4, 2006, 07:27:

On Cali vs. Bogota/Medellin Bogotá and Medellín may be comparatively favored by the government, I suppose, but keep in mind that those two cities have also had a string of local administrations that, from the looks of things, have been much more responsible and capable than Cali's, especially right now.

It appears that even the Caleños are aware of that difference, given how much they criticize their own mayor.

Frankly, I haven't been to Cali, so I really can't reach the best conclusions about its situation, but it seems like the local administration is the main party responsible for its alleged deterioration (even if not the only one).

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 5, 2006, 01:35:

i was told that Uribe didnt do too good in Cali as far as votes are concerned.maybey that has something to do with the neglect.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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juancegomez says on Dec 5, 2006, 06:02:

arthur brode Doubtful.

Here's the presidential election results for Cali, from the Registraduría's website:

ALVARO URIBE VELEZ - 330,807 - 63.73%
CARLOS GAVIRIA DIAZ - 126,933 24.45%

I've been reading http://www.elpais.com.co lately, and it does seem that Cali's troubles go back much further than the electoral campaign.

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litost says on Dec 5, 2006, 06:45:

Blaming in some way Uribe for Cali's troubles is ridiculous. The city's problems started several years before him coming to office, and the roots of the situation go even farther back. If anything, the local and regional authorities have much more blame to take (on the opposite ideological spectrum as Uribe btw), and well in the end who are the people who elect those people into office... hmm?

Anyways, there are plenty of very nice neighborhoods in Cali, and not just in the South. The area arond the Rio Cali (I think it's called the Oeste, close to that great Obelisco place where you eat empanadas) is very nice, and there are some neighborhoods like Granada with very classy bars and restaurants.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 5, 2006, 09:26:

Yes, it's true that the problems with Cali started way back with the artificially inflated bubble with the cartel and building boom that collapsed as soon as the cartel became history; three or four lousy periods of administration (starting with Mauricio Guzman "oh yeah he stole the money but at least he built the puentes", inept Jhon Jairo and the present blind guy Polo.)

There's, however, much bitterness in Cali concerning Uribe's allocation of funds and the truth is that Cali has become the Cenicienta (Cinderella) among the major cities in Colombia when it once was a proud number two, the capital of salsa and the sports capital of Colombia, la ciudad civica and an example for the rest of the country. That hurts. Uribe's administration has also neglected the major Colombian export port of Buenaventura pulling back the funds that were promised for the betterment of the harbour and deepening of the canal of access.

Sorry, litost, I don't agree with you. The problems that Cali is having now are previous to the Uribe administration but they have accentuated under it.

Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Dec 5, 2006, 09:37:

On the bright side, Our "beloved" blind mayor... has been removed from office as of yesterday for corruption. Of course he still has a chance to appeal. Let's hope Cali finally gets some good leadership, such as the ones that have done so much good for Bogota', Medellin and Pereira.
BillyB

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 5, 2006, 09:51:

Right, billy, I was just reading about his destitution. Maybe the crisis in Cali has touched the rock bottom and there is only one way to go...up.
Cheers,
Desi

«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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www.calirentals.net says on Dec 5, 2006, 10:58:

juan thanks for the election results.obviously,i was misinformed by a secretary friend of mine that works in the "Cam" out of all places.

http://www.calirentals.net/

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litost says on Dec 5, 2006, 11:59:

Desi, as much as I respect you and value your opinion, you often let your emotional love of Cali get the best of you. It is not a President's responsibility to ensure the development and economic performance of every single city in a country. It is an impossible task, even for a workaholic micromanager like Uribe, that's why there are governors and mayors with a very high level of administrative and financial autonomy. A president of a country as complicated on so many fronts as in Colombia has to look after the unity and overall well-being of the country as a whole. If one city is going downhill while the the rest of the country has been on the upside for several years already, I'd say take a cold and objective look at what's going on there. Finding a scapegoat and revisiting old regional rivalries is the easiest thing to do, but gets you nowhere close to the solution.

Medellin had some really terrible years with rampaging crime, violence, drug mafias, the hangover of the cartel days, etc., yet the people from that city managed to keep a positive attitude and in many cases decided to stick around in order to put the city back on track like it is now. Unfortunately, almost without exception all of the people from Cali I've met in Bogota, Miami and Paris over the last few years(wonderful people and some of my best friends btw) say they have no intentions of going back to live in Cali. Yes they are full of joyful memories and at times even nostalgic, but never to the point of seeing a future there for themselves. Sad but true.

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gringolondinense says on Dec 6, 2006, 09:42:

I cant believe this crap!! Arthur is just posting a few pics that happen to show the not-so-nice bits of town. So what? He doesnt have to balance his photos with some upmarket places. What if he posted pics only of the good parts of town? maybe people would moan and say "thet's see the crap bits also arthur".

If people cant handle a few street photos god help us. Or maybe god should sweep up those streets. cheers guys.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Dec 7, 2006, 03:09:

From today's El Pais;

people have started burning the garbage on the streets. There's a graphic article about the garbage on the streets of downtown Cali and about how fed up people are with that.

Cheers,
Desi


«Sé que los seres humanos y los peces podrán coexistir en paz». ( George W. Bush, Saginaw 29-09-00)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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aztec says on Dec 7, 2006, 04:30:

What a shame... ...Desi. I was first in Cali about 17 years ago. I thought it was a beautiful place. My brother in law put us up for a week in the hotel at the country club. One of the most pleasant visits I have ever had to Colombia. Managed to visit some cities not too far from Cali during this time.

The people of this city need to do "something" about the deterioration. What, I have no idea.

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timeout says on Dec 7, 2006, 22:58:

I live in the most beautiful city in the world, according to most, Vancouver. If you were to take the 2nd of arthur's photos and: pave the road, add puddles of urine, feces, vomit, and used needles, then scatter about 50 heroine addicts along the alley, and finally make the buildings bigger and scarier, you'd have an accurate picture of many back streets in downtown Vancouver, only a couple blocks from gastown, a major tourist atttraction here.

Get over it guys.

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