Babies, Ex-Wives, and Mother-in-Laws

cali373 says on Sep 8, 2005, 12:47:

I have seen that issue with Colombian woman who are young. It seems that a high number of middle to poor class colombiana's are more interested in having a baby because they are cute than considering the FULL responsibilites of being a parent. The issues I have seen is that they do not think about the financial issues, (unless they are rich), if they are married to the father, the fact that the baby will grow up, time off from working. It seems like it is easier to be a parent in Colombia than the US.

WHY??? Why do they want babies unless both parents are fullly ready.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 8, 2005, 14:08:

What your girlfriend have to do with the stuff that are happening in Colombia? Is not her fault, I think you should try to talk to her and your family (widening their knowledge about Colombia) before she comes and join you, she is going to leave her family behind to be with you and if she is going to find all this problems with your family and babies I really feel for the poor girl.

engage brain before opening mouth

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cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 14:33:

Thanks for your comments. I would hope that piece by piece my family will learn more about Colombia from me and from my fiancee since she will be here soon. If they refuse to warm up to her, then unfortunately there's going to be a rift between me and them that may be unsalvageable. I refuse to bring my fiancee into a forum that will make her feel uncomfortable, even if it's my own family. That would be so wrong considering all she's giving up to be here with me.

I think the baby issue may also have to do with her biological clock screaming. She is 28. That I can understand. The subject of having a baby, as sort of a competitive issue with my ex-wife, is a land mine. Sometimes she brings it up and I try to tell her there is no competition, but she doesn't seem satisfied with that answer. To me it seems like she will only be satisfied if she has a baby, too. Right now I'm thinking OK fine, maybe we have the baby, circle the wagons, and just focus on the three of us. It would be nice to have a network of family support, but if it's not there, it's not my fault.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 8, 2005, 14:41:

Babies are a status symbol For many women, it's the same as when a guy shows off a new car, big-screen TV, or new barbecue. It's instant (give or take nine months) status and attention. When the baby turns two or three, the instant attention starts to wear off so it's time to have another one. (ever wonder why babies are often two-three years apart?)

Of course there are many other, more down-to-earth and less cynical reasons women want to have babies. But the notion of being on an "even level" would seem to indicate some insecurity (to the extent on can divine these things through an internet bulletin board, of course) on her part.

WRT U.S. propoganda on Colombia, Mario said it all. It's just part of the package. All you can do is work on your response so it rolls off your tongue effortlessly.

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caslug says on Sep 8, 2005, 14:57:

the majority of americans dont know crap.. about the world outside the US. I read that ONLY 10 million american travel to ANOTHER country(incl mexico/canada) in any given year. So the amount of people traveling to developing country is even smaller! So what do you expect fr your friends and family?

CAM, have you travelled back and forth to CTG alot? If you have, i'm suprise you're parents are still worry. My parents(and friends) where at first alittle concern, BUT after my third trip. Now no one bats and eye, because after each trip i tell them what COL is like and how it is similar(in many respect) to the US. I help bridge the knowledge gap by showing them things are both country/culture share.

IE, i tell my dad the other day while we were driving in San Diego, that certain part of SD, the houses/apartment look EXACTLY like COL. And explain to my friends what COL has that is EXACTLY like the US(shopping mall, casinos, rich neighborhoods, etc.,) so they feel that COL is not a exotic landscape. Of course they ask about the war, but i tell them that because i hangout in the big city the war isnt a factor.

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cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 15:00:

Crazy4Cali I think you hit the nail right on the head. I think there is some insecurity there, but I don't know how to resolve it. I certainly don't think I've done anything to feed it. Having the baby may be the only way out, which isn't altogether bad. It's something I wanted to do anyway. But I wanted us to have some fun hanging out before taking on the responsibilities of parenthood.

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cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 15:06:

Caslug I'll keep trying. Hopefully I can get to where you are. Unfortunately, to learn something takes an open mind. I don't feel some of the women in my family are that open minded. For example, I was talking to my nephew about it, and my older sister came in and completely cut the subject off saying that she didn't want her son to learn/know anything about it. Mind you caslug, she lives in Vista, minutes away from the border with Mexico, but she proactively prevents her son from knowing any words in Spanish or anything about Latam countries. Reasoning? He's in America. Such closed minds are maddening to me.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 8, 2005, 15:40:

The "Ex" factor Having kids doesn't cure any problems, it only overshadows them for a while (usually until the kids are about five), then whatever problems existed before the baby come back and come back with a vengence. So now you have all the same problems (with interest) on top of the challenges of raising a child (or children).

I think the BEST thing you can do for a new relationship is to spend time together without the distraction of raising kids, let alone babies (Not that I've ever followed that advice, BTW). That time, if well spent, should prove she's numero uno to you.

Now if you're always obsessing over the "ex". What she is doing, how she's taking care of the kids, how she's spending the child support, etc. well, that's a different problem and maybe the baby thing is an attempt at pulling your attention away from the "ex." If so, then it might be easier to stop fussing about the ex (at least in front of your novia).

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adrimm says on Sep 8, 2005, 16:15:

more like cultural than insecurity I don't know that it is an insecurity issue with the fiancee. I think it may be more a little cultural thing. Among most Colombians (living in Colombia) having a child early in marriage (within first year and a half) is the norm (and bluntly, expected). If a child is not produced then people start feeling (discretely) sorry for you becusae a child is needed for a couple to be a "complete" family.

My cousins and aunts are always very surprised to hear that most of my married friends have been married 4 + years and haven't had kids (well one couple just decided it was time).

I was going to say that the closest analogy I can think of is the car (In north america it is the norm that each family (or almost each adult) has a car. It just is. Even if there are buses etc. If a fmaily has no car most people start thinking there is something wrong with them.

I guess a better analogy would be men's haircuts. Most guys have short hair. Why? It's the cultural norm. You start growing your hair out and some people wonder and start to assign labels, treat you differently.

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cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 17:03:

Ah, very interesting adrimm I never thought about that. I suppose that is understandable.

I know I don't bring up my ex alot. I did early on because I wanted to be honest. Didn't want to hide "material information". For my girlfriend, the subject just never went away.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 8, 2005, 17:11:

I hear ya... They want to know everything, until you start to tell them everything.

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adrimm says on Sep 8, 2005, 17:41:

Good thing to be honest Well honesty is the best policy, and imho, not mentioning a previous marriage (esp one with kids) would be shady. I know I wouldn't be pleased if a guy I was planning on marrying didn't disclose that a former wife and kids existed.. it would be grounds to seriously reconsider the quality of character of my intended.

From your fiancee's perspective the fact that you had kids in the previous marriage meant it was real marriage (ie. you produced "family"). Given Colombian standards regarding babies so early in marriage, it is very natural that she would want to have them so you (plural) will "really" be a family, and (given your history) this new marriage will be as real as the previous one.

From here it can seem insecurity/legitimacy thing (and if she feels she is competing with an ex there may be some small legitimacy thing, which is normal, no one anywhere wants to feel second-fiddle to an ex), but **trust me** the Colombian-babies-early-on norm is as culturally expected as the short-haired-guys and family-must-have-car norm in North America. Children come soon.

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cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 17:49:

Thank you again, adrimm Your posts are really enabling me to see this from an entirely different angle. Esp the definition of a "real family." Thanks for taking the time to help me with this.

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adrimm says on Sep 8, 2005, 17:58:

No prob It's a different way of thinking. I don't exactly share it, but I definitly grew up with it. My extended family) is huge and whenever a child isn't born within 2 year, whoo the gossip mill gets going as to whose fault it was, does anyone know who's side of the family has barren people... will they adopt? The whole marriage-for-producing family-is one of the ways in which Colombians are still very traditional.

I wonder if it stems from colonial times when they were probably in a rush to establish a population? The tie of marriage=instababies seems so much stronger than in say, Spain.

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Sylvie says on Sep 8, 2005, 19:38:

I would never have a child wi WHo in their right mind would want to have a child with someone that doesn't even know where his own daughter lives? I'd find it rather stupid to have a child with someone just to be on an even playing field with some other woman.

wow! you're conserned about this but don't know where your daughter lives. hmmm, something seems wrong here.

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cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 19:57:

First of all Sylvie, the mother was an accidental pregnancy when I was younger. I married her to legitimize the situation, and for the benefit of the baby. The whole idea was to give the baby some sense of family when she arrived. Unfortunately, the mother had all kinds of problems, not the least of which was her bipolar depression. She would regularly have temper tantrums that ended in her throwing things, biting me, scratching, etc. I can't tell you how much blood I shed in that relationship. She'd cut up my clothes, smear diapers on my side of the bed, don't even get me started. So finally, one day during one of her temper tantrums, I grabbed her wrists to keep her from continuing to be destructive. She starts screaming at the top of her lungs that I was beating her up. A neighbor called the police. The police came and looked at the shirt torn off my back, the gouges in my cheeks, neck, back, and ears. Her teeth marks in my back. Meanwhile she was of course unscathed. The arrested her and charged her with felony spousal abuse. The City Attorney never pursued the case citing a "lack of evidence" although LAPD had polaroids of my injuries. After she was released from jail, she took the baby to her aunts house about 30 miles north of LA. So that I couldn't go pick up the baby, she tried to file for custody. You can only accomplish this by filing ex parte, and to file ex parte there have to be extenuating circumstances. She wrote on her filing with the court that I was the violent one, and that she had fled to her aunt's house fearing for her life and the life of her child. Courts eat that shit up. After getting into a fistfight with one of the cousins at the aunt's house, she couldn't live there anymore. They kicked her out. Then she went to New Orleans. We never had a visitation arrangement for New Orleans, because the baby was supposed to have been in-state. Our divorce decree says I get "frequent and ongoing contact". The court however, doesn't observe that and doesn't give a fuck. They let her steal my daughter. I filed to have the court force her to come back to California, since it is a violation of state law to relocate out of state without the other parent's permission. I had given her permission months earlier to take the child on a 7 day trip to see her fatally ill foster mother (yeah, my ex's story involves foster care, drug and alcohol abuse in her mother's home, don't get me started). The foster mother lived in New Orleans. So my ex told the court that she interpreted the 7 day permission to mean she could relocate there, even though I was in the courtroom saying "No, it only had to do with a short visit." The court believed that it was an honest mistake on her part, and ALLOWED HER TO STAY THERE. Since then, she has relocated from one house to another, I can't keep track of where she is. She's supposed to let me know where my daughter lives, but she doesn't give a fuck about what the court order says. For the longest she kept saying that she didn't have a phone, till one day she slipped up and called me on it. So then the Hurricane came and she evacuated to Ohio.

I said all that to say this: the transcripts of the court show that I played by the Family Law to save my relationship with my daughter LONG before my costena ever came into the picture. The fact is, the court is incompetent and blindly leaning in favor of mothers, even when the mother violates the court order. So don't even start commenting on my relationship with my daughter if you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Finally, if you read the posts, you would see that having a baby involves more than parity with a previous relationship. The reality is, my fiancee is 10 times the woman my ex was, my post deals with how I might convey that. I'd rather not compare the two, but occasionally I feel pressured to, for HER security.

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cam0940 says on Sep 8, 2005, 20:14:

BTW, this story is one of the reasons why I wrote this post in the first place. Part of the reason there is tension with my family is because my ex has written them emails asking for help with clothes and things after the hurricane. They're sending stuff. Now, I pay my support to the Los Angeles County Child Support services and she can get the money from them wherever she resides. This bitch took my mother's first granddaughter, my sisters' first neice, from all of us and none of us have a relationship with her because she took the baby to New Orleans illegally in the first place. It was her fucked up idea to go to New Orleans and she never should have been there. Only NOW that everything's flooded, she's lost everything, she wants to come crying for help from MY family? She's out of her mind, I can't believe the audacity. But that is the nature of the relationship. I'm totally done with it. Don't even want to hear about it at family functions. And my costena should not feel like she's competing with it. But the bleeding hearts in my family who weren't there when I was pleading to the Family Court for my daughter, they act like they've forgotten how we got in this predicament which is traitorous in my view. And the ultimate insult is that they'd rather talk about my ex and the baby than encourage me to begin my life anew and have a legitimate chance to be a real father and husband.

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Sylvie says on Sep 8, 2005, 21:04:

Excuses excuses, if you cared, you'd find a way to see your daughter. You've basically given up on seeing her. You shouldn't.

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Principe says on Sep 8, 2005, 21:55:

oh my.. Bullshit Sylvie. How do you have the audacity to make a comment like that? This guy has just on a public forum asked for help/insight on how to resolve a family issue regarding his future wife and family. Had to suffer through what any father would never want to suffer through in a relationship, had his own family pretty much turn his back on him, shown that he wants to be happy and be a good father and parent and move on with his life. And you make a comment like that? I'm not even going to write anymore as your head is too far up your ass to even understand what this guy has gone through and will go through mentally in the future. Geez... some people haven't a clue. Think before you write.

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Sylvie says on Sep 8, 2005, 22:09:

I'm honest. I think it should be illegal for people who can’t make efforts to see their existing children to have more children.

I quite frankly don't give a crap about a 33 year old adult and his Colombiana who is begging for a child from a guy who's family doesn’t even like her. I'm more concerned with the existing daughter he gave up on.

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Principe says on Sep 8, 2005, 23:00:

thats where you are naive "I'm more concerned with the existing daughter he gave up on."

And how exactly has he given up on his daughter. From what I read, his exwife took the daughter and there's very little he can do. Sure one day his ex-wife may end up in jail if the courts ever end up giving a rat's ass about her and the laws she has broken... which in reality is probably slim. But mind you if he were to go look for his daughter and find her and take her back to California... my bet is he'd be put in jail faster than you can even type a response to this post. That's reality and that's where the system sucks. But to think he gave up on his daughter... completely wrong. The post you read must be different than the one I read.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 9, 2005, 05:04:

Agree with adrimm About the Colombianas producing a baby betwent the first or two year of marriage. And as you say Cam0940 she may think that her body clock is ticking, many Colombianas worry if they don't have a child by the age of 30. I hope your family gets on with her, she is going to need a lot of support when she gets there.

engage brain before opening mouth

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cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 05:22:

Thanks Principe. Sylvie's obviously very young and missed the crux of what's going on.

This is a grown folks conversation Sylvie. Better to not comment if you can't keep up.

And interestingly kat, she has mentioned the fact that she will be 30 in less than 2 years.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 9, 2005, 05:25:

That sucks... Slyvie clearly has no experience in dealing with the "joys" of child support and Family Court. While I understand her point in the abstract, the sad, unfortunate reality is how the "system" is heavily biased AGAINST the father and not only puts up every roadblock imaginable (on the assumption that all men are deadbeats) it is also a very degrading experience for even the best intentioned men. A couple of years dealing with that can grind down any sense of hope and dignity.

So, whether Cam should or shouldn't do (or could have done) more than he has done is impossible to tell, but it's too easy to judge from the cheap seats and this definitely falls into the "walk a mile in his shoes before you judge" category.

That said, there still seems to be a lot of baggage (as in unresolved issues) with the "ex" and from reading this I can understand why Cam's novia is a bit anxious. Those issues are going to be a constant drain on the relationship, either in terms of money, time, emotion, and/or attention. Not to say it'll be a fatal drain, but it will certainly have an effect.

It's easy to be all excited about the hope offered by a new relationship with a new partner, but the shine on that will fade quickly once real-life sets in and the previously unresolved issues start to surface again.

Ideally, Cam would have his relationship with his ex and his family worked out before bringing a new person into the mix, but life doesn't always work out that way. You do the best you can with what you have. I hope it all works out for him.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Sep 9, 2005, 05:32:

Camo940 When I got married I though that that was my duty, after you get married, you have kids, My husband was ready I wasn't I was 21. But everything work out fine at the end, they're teenagers now, they look more like my brothers rather than my kids.:-)

I can't comment about you ex and your daughter, but we women tend to be a bit jelous and we want LTC just for ourselve ;-)
I think she needs reassurent from you and maybe a baby will bring that commitment stronger. I now can understand why don't you want another baby.

engage brain before opening mouth

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cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 05:51:

I have seen too many men ruin their lives pursuing "fairness" in these situations. Constantly in court for one reason or another, the mother suddenly taking the child out to Chuck E Cheese so as not to be home when it's Dad's turn to pick up the child for visitation, I've seen women go into the court and say the Dad was on drugs (with no basis in truth) so the court would order supervised visitation or suspend visitation altogether. I have come to the conclusion that unless you're dealing with a mother that is sensible and sane enough to go through the "broken family" scenario fairly and with integrity, then you're literally taking on the world alone. This is why some men begin to feel desperate and do desperate things to get the time they deserve with their children. Of course, this all assumes that they were able to serve visitation papers in the first place. If my daughter ever wants to know what happened, I have files of transcripts that I purchased that show what went on. I did not give up on my daughter. I fought the system. Reading the transcripts, the only question my daughter could ask is "Why did mommy do this?"

The fact is, from the time my daughter was born, the mother never believed that fathers counted. Never understood the function of a father in the child's life. She herself never had a good relationship with her father, which is one of the things that surprised me. When we were together, her father came to California. I took her to see him. It was sad watching her try to warm up to him and have this "loving" relationship, while he clearly felt awkward and out of place. My ex's mother never wanted to marry him in the 70s because she was too busy with heroin and ended up dying from alcohol related complications. But she kept telling the poor guy that she didn't want to be tied down and didn't need him. So my ex (as I later found out while trying to figure out WTF was wrong with this woman) grew up moving to the grandparents house when mom was high or drunk, to the aunt's house, finally into foster care, then from foster home to foster home. Years later, seeing her dad, she wanted to put her arms around him and act like nothing ever happened. But by that time, he was warm to her, but there clearly wasn't a father/daughter chemistry there. It was like two strangers trying to pretend they had a relationship. And then after that meeting, she never called him, never went to see him. He really didn't count for her because she had been without him for so long. That's why the same woman, my ex, doesn't care about me having a relationship with our daughter. For her, it's all about the mother. The next few women I went out with, I made it a prerequisite that she came from a whole family and had a decent relationship with her dad. For me, having seen what I saw, I just had to have it that way. We had to have compatible views of how a family should function before I considered her someone I might have a serious relationship with. As a man, it's not an obvious quality to look for unless you've been through it.

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adrimm says on Sep 9, 2005, 09:10:

I do think it is incredibly tragic when a child gets stuck and tortured becuase of a parent (or parents).

We met a little boy about 14 years ago (the friend of the son of a couple we knew), whose parents had had a terrible split. The mother was nuts, she didn't care for him very well at all. He was six or seven at the time, very thin and his clothes were always torn, shoes too small etc. I remember that my mom would give him a change of clothes when they came over and sit and darn his clothes. Once we met her and my mom suggested she check out the local consignment shop for clothes, the woman threw a fit in front of us. A few time we would have both boys overnight and this little guy always cried himself to sleep becuase he didn't have a daddy. We asked our friends, and they said it happened when he stayed at their house too.

The mom didn't want the dad to have any contact with the little boy, and told him all these terrible (and inconsistent) things about his father. And he'd just cry and cry. He had dark circles under his eyes from being so miserable. Anything we did to cheer him up was a temporary distraction. The dad tried to call him and then one day he called when mom was out, (our friends were watching the kid at his own home), and he talked to his son for like an hour.

I swear the little boy was on cloud nine for the rest of the week. "His daddy had called", "His daddy had called", "His daddy had said he loved him and wanted to visit".

Kids don't understand that politics of bad relationships, but they sure as hell bear the burden.

Last I heard, this kid was in a Juvie.

So Mario, while I can understand that you have nothing to do with your ex (perhaps by her own choice), I hope that you never stop making efforts to be involved in your daughter's life, even if your ex battles you on it.

It is not your daughter's fault if your ex is psycho. She needs to know you care. One thing you will learn is that in Colombia blood is considered far thicker than water, your kid is your blood.

Send letters to the school, when she is old enough ,send her a calling card so she can call and get to know you and form her own opinions of you, not just what gets fed to her.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 9, 2005, 09:18:

As hard as it is... (or will be) ...don't play the mother's game of "your father did this..." "your father did that...." and try to prove to the kid how whacky the mother is.

It's bad enough that kid will grow up thinking they weren't loved by one parent but then to find out they weren't loved by the other either leaves them completely messed up.

The best way (and without a doubt, the most difficult) is to keep on showing the child you love them (even from a distance and even if the mother is constantly making it difficult and fighting your every attempt). But don't plan on any instant gratification. It will take at least as long to "deprogram" them as the mother has spent "programming" them. The longer you wait, the harder it will be and the longer it will take.

It sucks BIG TIME, but it's the right thing to do in the long run (and I mean the Loooooooooooonnnnnnnnng run) for everyone.

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adrimm says on Sep 9, 2005, 09:31:

agree C4C Probably not until the child reaches adulthood (at least).

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cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 09:43:

You see adrimm, that is exactly the kind of thing that happens. Far too often fathers are simply disregarded, as if they bring no value to the development of their children. Then later on, if he mentions that he doesn't have a close relationship with his child, some people automatically assume he is a disinterested deadbeat.

In the U.S., fathers get very little mention in domestic discussions. If a mother is separated from her child, it's a tragedy. If a father is separated from his child, it's never even addressed.

There are sociological studies that attempt to measure the differences between children who grow up with absentee fathers and those who grow up with complete families. Without getting into details, no loving mother who understood child development would want their child to grow up without their father playing some role. Maybe the marriage/relationship doesn't work out. Hiding the child is a selfish act of vindictiveness. It is clearly the child that suffers, which is why it's against the law.

I find it interesting that the same types of women who play these games with the children are the same types who say "Oh, he's trying to control me." But then in the divorce, because they have custody of the child (someone the father wants to have a relationship with) THEY end up controlling. Moving the child here and there, playing games with visitation, this is control. When you have something that the other person wants, and you deny them that, making them more and more desperate, you are controlling the situation.

As a man, there are very few responses, and only one LOGICAL one. Move on. The other emotional responses of fighting the system for what is right and fair end with the child trapped in a tug of war. This tug of war will be particularly ugly considering the court's insensitivity to the father's interests. They say that the objective is to seek the best interests of the child, yet they almost always err in favor of the mother, whether it's good for the child or not. Look at adrimm's story. Makes you wonder how this mother ended up with custody in the first place. Interstate or internationally, seeking the child's best interest becomes even more tricky. A few months here, a few months there, the child doesn't have an opportunity to develop an understanding of STABILITY, which is one of the most important things parents can give their child. So again, if the mother (or whoever has custody) is unwilling to play the game fairly and with integrity, the tug of war itself will have negative effects on the child.

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cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 09:57:

Crazy4Cali, your advice is the thing to do, generally. I can't even get that far because I can't get into contact with my daughter directly. I tried explaining the situation to the court. As long as she provides an address, they are happy. Problem is, she doesn't live at the address she provided. She provided a cell phone number, which was later disconnected. She is (or was) down there in New Orleans with her friends telling her things like "Just start your life over. Get your child support and move on." These are people who have no shame about collecting welfare, entitlements, etc. She moved down there with these women, none of whom have a man, and before you knew it Jefferson Parish was contacting LA County asking me to reimburse them for public assistance they gave her. She filled out an application at the county aid office saying that I wasn't paying child support, that she had no idea where I was, and they approved her application. They actually told me that they don't verify the accuracy of applications unless someone complains. So they made payments to her, and when the Parish tracked me down they tried to make me liable. I had to show the divorce decree with support payments and the LA County Child Support services account to dispute it. So what I'm dealing with is a woman who has no intentions of playing the game fairly and with integrity. I'm done with it. I'm hardening myself to go on with my life until such time that I can communicate with my daughter without involving her mother. I don't know how that will happen. I don't know when. But I know my daughter is too young to pick up a phone right now. WRT the mother, it's not about me having a relationship with my daughter, it's not about how I might be able to help her grow into a beautiful young lady. It's about what she (the mother) is entitled to in child support. To have a relationship with my daughter these days, I NEED some cooperation from the mother, at least until my daughter is old enough to pick up a phone or write on her own.

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adrimm says on Sep 9, 2005, 10:31:

camo As I said, moving on and not being involved in an ex's life is reasonable, but giving up on the kids is NOT reasonable. It is not a tug of war. Distanced parents can be creative in how they keep touch with kids once the best option (shared custody, in person visits) have been exhausted. No it may not be what is optimal but for a little boy like the one I knew, just recieving communication from his father was enough.

I am glad to hear that you plan on making contact with your daughter when she is old enough. For now, I guess that is all you can do.

Have you tried the schools?

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sydneygirl says on Sep 9, 2005, 10:50:

similar experience I dated a guy who was in exactly the same situation as you.

The ex wife told endless lies about him took out a restaining order on him saying was trying to kill her ect ect.

When his daughter eventually came to him aged 14yrs old after the mother was deemed "unfit" she was a mess! She hated him, was convinced that he was the devil....literally!! her mother had wrapped her is her crazy world until the poor girl did not know what was real and what was not.

When I met them, thier realationship was rocky, she was always sneaking out and wagging school- she had a rep with the local guys ect...
A year into my relationship with him, she was on the verge of running away, he was trying everything! But she was on self destuct mode or something.

I suggested she move in with me for a few months until she finished school....mainly because she was always at my place anyway. They both liked the idea, he paid her rent.

I just tried to set an example. Show her how a homebody like me enjoys to just stay home sometimes and be creative i encouraged her amazing talent as a painter, took her to galleries, made her nice meals, and i had to show her a thing or two about female hygine.

This girl was sexually active but her knowledge about her own body was so limited!....i scared the hell out of her by making her come with me to a sexual health clinic and have all the test.

I Just tried to give her some options.

I would drive her to school and made her get up to go, even if she had taken off the night before for a night out...I went and retrieved her from local night spots and yelled at the fully grown men giving her drinks " do you know how old she is!!!" The sad thing is they had known her since she had moved in with her dad.

Her mother would show up unannounced now and again and cause havoic.

Eventually it all got a bit much for me, I went broke. had to move into a share place. She moved home with her dad again...she would turn up drunk asking for money or needing me to tuck her into my bed for the night and give her breakfast.

The men at the pub moved onto younger and less fucked up pretty little things. she got herself a rep as the girl who hangs around for free drinks ect.

Her dad gave her never ending oppurtunitys by introducing her to people in his industry and getting her little jobs here and there, but she would always blow it....eg he once got her job at fashoin week and she abused a celebrity on national televison....because she got drunk on all the free cocktails floating around the event, she is banned for life from attending that event ever again!


fastforward 3 years...shes quit drinking, and is living outside the city near the beach painting in solitude, says she does not like big crowds anymore, and her boyfriend seems nice and supportive. She sells her art to a gallery in the city. Finally seems to be getting some kind of self love.

The sad thing....all that drink, pot and the rest has probably brought on the first signs of bypolar as it can be genetic.....

so get in there daddy and save your daughter from a childhood of what my friend had. Also save yourself the hell my ex partner when through trying to help his daughter.after the mother completley messed her up!

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toneloc24 says on Sep 9, 2005, 11:06:

Cam Sorry to hear about your situation. Things make a lot of sense now. Just continue to try your best and maintain your sanity. You still have a daughter in the world. Ever think about hiring a private investigator to document all of this? Then hire a different lawyer to represent you?

I won't even go into a rant about father's rights in the USA. Except to say that they don't exist. Even in the courts, men are treated only as sperm donors and, later, banks. A person like Sylvie will never understand that.

Some of my friends don't even want to get married or have kids anymore, specifically because of the child support issue. Not to say that they are not interested in supporting their kids. They are and would.

However, in a world where the courts award $35,000/month in child support against a father who already completely provides for his child's every need, men have to ask themselves whether it's worth it.
That $35,000/month child support judgement was awarded against Sean "Puff Daddy/P Diddy/Puffy/Diddy" Combs. Happened in a NY court last year. Not that his child ever has gone without a single need or want any day of his life, nor does not have millions of $$$ in trust awaiting him, but the courts ruled that as a fair judgement. This is the kind of BS that fathers must face, if the relationship ever goes wrong with the mother. $420,000/yr for a child support for a 10 year old. LOL!!!

No more ranting. I do feel for you Cam. Good luck and don't give up completely.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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caslug says on Sep 9, 2005, 11:33:

i think slyvie is just young.. she's 23 i think. when your young, life is full of easy answer, it's hard to understand other POV and there's no limit to what you can do if you work hard enough. I think when you get older, you realize that somethings are out of your control and you understand things are not black/white.

I've dated and known several crazy chicks(in US) in my time, and what they ALL had in common was they grew up without ONE PARENT(usually fathers) in their lives AT ALL. The majority have emotional and personality problems. As other posters mention above, children need to have communication and relationship with BOTH parents(even when they are divorce).

Which leads to me observe in COL, i've met many single mother that the father doesnt help at all, or some that just help with money but not time, and few(minority) that put both time AND money in.

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Eclipse says on Sep 9, 2005, 11:47:

I don't think that Cam is giving up on his daughter, but there is only SO MUCH he can do. As they say, "It takes two to tango". From what I've read, Cam has jumped through hoops, done everything he can possibly do to fight the system to try and get in contact with his EX to find out where she is. Now if the EX is not willing to do the same, what else is he to do? He's paying his child support but hasn't seen his daughter. Is that fair? The system really sucks here in the US. Yes, you hear tons of stories of deadbeat dads, and that's what the system is suppose to be for, but it doesn't help a dad who follows the rules and it's the mom's that's in the wrong.
Or even worse....the child isn't even the dad's and he's still forced to pay child support! See for yourself.
http://video.fox6.com/viewer/content/special.php?Art_ID=33681&Format_ID=2&BitRate_ID=8&Contract

http://www.glennsacks.com/foxpf_080505_100kbps.wmv

I'm sure Cam will continue to find ways to get in contact with his daughter, but after time and time again with no success and the cards are stacked against you, it's demoralizing.

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cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 12:06:

So true you guys. All of it.

My daughter is 3 1/2 years old now. Eventually she will start school, and that will make it easier to find her. Last I heard they were in Ohio.

The whole experience made me--I would say--untrusting and tentative about starting a serious relationship. It seemed the risks outweighed the rewards. Then I went to Colombia. I saw a world entirely different from Los Angeles. In Cartagena, I met a young lady who basically brought me back from the Land of the Untrusting and showed me that I can still be a father and a husband and have the life I had always wanted. I know Colombia has its dangers and its seedy characters, women with alterior motives, etc. But I found dealing with them simple as compared to dealing with the women here in LA. And I have to say, I trust this girl I'm engaged to. Won't get into details but from my own subjective position, she is the "total package". I would like for her to understand that and not feel that she is in competition with my ex, because there really is no competition. As I said earlier, I disclosed to her what happened, but only with the intent to be honest about the past.

And some of the family members are with me. My younger sister has offered to take her shopping, show her "girl" things in LA. My Dad's always got my back. Mi colombiana thinks we should eat at home more often than we eat out, and given that I only know how to make a few things, she has offered to cook. So my grandmother stepped up and offered to show her how to make some of my favorite foods. I can do no wrong in the eyes of my grandmother, so I can always count on her support. It's just specific people in the family who don't understand what happened with my daughter and compound the problem by not understanding why I'm interested in mi colombiana. But we'll get an idea of how that's going to work out starting in about 3 weeks.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 9, 2005, 12:29:

Dude-

So you're not totally alone there in LA. LOL!!! Seems like you need to just focus on the positive relationships, and let time and deeds change the negative ones. You already have your hands full with your fiance, and getting her acclimated.

Your younger sister and grandmother will be your best friends in accomplishing this. Dad will be Dad. Younger sisters have that tendency of smoothing things out. At least explaining probably exactly what you've already explained to those holdouts, but because it's coming from someone else, it'll sink in eventually.

Grandma should have the respect of all. If she buys into your relationship, and approves of your lady, at some point, she'll go to bat for you.

Misery loves company. Therefore, leave those miserable folks alone who can't understand your ordeal and support you in your efforts, to stew in their own mess. If they had your best interests in mind, they would help you find your daughter and go to bat for you to get custody arrangement enforced.

You need to be focused on your current relationship, as well as continuing to explain exactly your feelings to your girl surrounding your daughter. When she turns 5, you're going to need to me ready, and your future wife will need to support you through it. Maybe once you're married, you can file for sole custody. Doubt if it'll work, but your family stability will be something to think about.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Sylvie says on Sep 9, 2005, 18:33:

I maybe young but I'm not a lazy dead beat father who uses the lack of justice in the law as an excuse not to get off their ass and travel a bit to see their kid once in a while. Yeah sit there and cry like a little baby about how unfair the court is to men. Be a man for crying out loud not a baby.

holy shit some of you guys make me sick. Shameful really. I’m done with this site. It is an embarrassment to the human race.

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cam0940 says on Sep 9, 2005, 19:38:

With each post it becomes more clear exactly what we're dealing with. Actually you sound a lot like my ex.

First you're not doing your reading. To travel, you first have to know where you're going. I explained clearly what has been going on with that.

Second the definition of a dead beat dad is one who doesn't take care of his children. I pay my child support. I have an account with LA Co Child Support services. If I find them with a private investigator and have vistation papers served there, then she still has to be willing to comply with them.

I understand you're daddy's little girl and you've never seen real world issues like this. That's actually good. But if you kept your mouth shut instead of running off, you might learn something about how it works.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 9, 2005, 22:22:

...or more importantly... find out how it doesn't work.

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