Awful....rumor, right?

adrimm says on Sep 26, 2005, 20:12:

Earlier this year I remember a foreign teacher being killed at an ATM in Cali or Medellin.

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BAQ says on Sep 26, 2005, 20:24:

Probably TRUE Well, considering the ADVISORY that was issued by the Embassy in Bogota TODAY (which I have posted on another thread) speaks DIRECTLY to the incident you describe, I would say there is a 99.9% chance what the woman told you is true.

Semper Fidelis !

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Victor Carranza says on Sep 26, 2005, 21:06:

Foreigner or not, you can also get shot in NYC in front of the ATM.

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adrimm says on Sep 26, 2005, 21:13:

This is true Victor A good reminder.

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thundernco says on Sep 26, 2005, 23:14:

University Prof. killed right outside of a bank in Cali was about 6 mos. ago. He had lived in Cali for about 25 yrs; it happens. -TNC

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DayTripper says on Sep 27, 2005, 00:34:

GdL: AVOID USING ATM'S GdL if you "AVOID USING ATM'S" where and how do you get your money in Cali?

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kernow62 says on Sep 27, 2005, 04:02:

I think we are missing the fact that this person supposedly resisted handing over the money. That is the first thing police will tell you, whether in Colombia, US, UK or wherever, DO NOT RESIST.

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johnboy77 says on Sep 27, 2005, 05:28:

Some hints:

Try to use ATMs in malls. It won't eliminate the risk, but it certainly decreases it. Its also easier to tell if someone is following you in a mall, compared to out on the street, where people can have you in view from much farther away.

I always withdrawl from Oviedo Mall on Ave. El Poblado (maybe 6 ATMs there) or at the Exito on Calle 10 and Las Vegas.

Try not to take out a huge chunck at once. If you can, get a Colombian bank account and try paying for things like groceries with direct ATM. I have it set up in Medellin where I can pay my rent with an internet transaction from my Conavi account, which eliminates that one day a month where I had money all over my body walking down the street.

A simple rule to follow is, if you can't afford to loose it, then don't carry it. Always have an amount on you that you will not even consider fighting for (this goes for jewelry, passports, and other things). Don't carry your bank or credit card unless you need to, and try keeping your money in different pockets (they are not so thurough if they rob you in public, and may just take one thing... no gaurantees.)

And yes, these things happen in other places. As a student in Ottawa, there was an old man (65+) who was coming home at night to a building next to mine. Some kid punched him in the back of the head and took his wallet. The kid was caught, said there was $35 in the wallet. The old man died as his head hit the floor in the lobby. The man did not resist... he wasn't given the chance.

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juanalejo says on Sep 27, 2005, 05:52:

My conclusion is then that if you are a gringo looking SOB (like stated above) you should not live in this country (like the guy that states above), and by the way GIB I thought you had said you were NOT going to say anything else about security in Colombia, are you the kind that does not keep up their word? And what is up with writing in all Capital letters, are you about to have a heart attack? And you know what? Your attitude is the one that increases the chances of Americans being harmed abroad, anybody who reads your crap gets increasingly disgusted at the typical American complaining of everything foreign, then you wonder why the world dislikes the USA, it is not because your country is powerful but rather because of vociferous ignorant people like you. Can´t you just state your opinion without undermining everybody elses?

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johnboy77 says on Sep 27, 2005, 05:55:

I will assume that was direct Psychoinbogota, I assume that was directed at me, as I was last to post, and I didn't say Bogotá was as safe as other places in the world. I live in Medellín. I posted some useful hints, and reminded people that you need to be careful everywhere, and not just in Colombia.

Try switiching to decaf or something......

Ps. I will compare Colombia to other countries if I please. Use all the capital letters you want, but this isn't your webpage, and others, despite your crying, are allowed to post their opinions (I am a gringo living in Colombia, am married to a Colombian, work in Colombia, and live in a city that doesn't exactly have a reputation for being safe, so its not like I'm talking out of my ass)

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johnboy77 says on Sep 27, 2005, 06:08:

"If it was not for me bringing some balance on these security issues this site would be open for one hell of a lawsuit by anyone reading it and traveling here and getting whacked."

You have to be kidding!!!! LOL!

That's the most retarded thing I have heard in a hell of while. You should try and relax some, before you become a security risk. I can't believe you tried to tell us that you would be calm in a robbery, when you go phsyco on a web forum.

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aztec says on Sep 27, 2005, 06:29:

Have to... ...agree with you gringoinbogota. As a matter of practice I don't use the ATM. My wife who looks very Colombian and has this experience does all of the withdrawals. I do stand far enough behind her watching for suspicious activities. Usually we attempt to arrive at the ATM separately. Hopefully the attention will be directed at me instead.

Even with this MO we still follow all of the other precautions you have seen on this site. Fortunately, I was trained early by my wife to be alert any time withdrawing money.

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aztec says on Sep 27, 2005, 06:31:

Have to... ...agree with you gringoinbogota. As a matter of practice I don't use the ATM. My wife who looks very Colombian and has this experience does all of the withdrawals. I do stand far enough behind her watching for suspicious activities. Usually we attempt to arrive at the ATM separately. Hopefully the attention will be directed at me instead.

Even with this MO we still follow all of the other precautions you have seen on this site. Fortunately, I was trained early by my wife to be alert any time withdrawing money.

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calipro says on Sep 27, 2005, 07:12:

I'm the luckest man alive..... Well at least I feel that way after reading GIB's posts. LOL !!!

A couple of gringos get wacked and he is shitting bricks. hehe !!!

But I do have a serious question for you. How many colombians do you think are killed by americans in Colombia each year?

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bkelly says on Sep 27, 2005, 08:14:

Unfortunately this happens to Colombians too. We lost a father from our school last year. He was shot at the ATM. He had three kids...they are still enrolled in our school.

--bkelly

--bkelly

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toneloc24 says on Sep 27, 2005, 09:09:

GIB I thought conservatives such as yourself were all about personal responsibility and accountability. Funny how that changes when some gringo gets killed in Colombia.

Seriously, ANYONE going to Colombia should KNOW exactly what they are getting themselves into. People should take the responsibility of exhibiting some form of common sense regarding their security. The warnings are everywhere. No one on this site gives up "don't worry, be happy" advice about safety and security in Colombia.

Not to say I don't feel bad for this dude who was killed, but what was he thinking? Someone holds a gun to your head and you resist...over money??? Common sense. Just give it up. Yes, you may have earned the money, but you CAN replace it. It's that simple. He's accountable now for his own actions when dealing with an irrational person.

This is NOT Colombia-specific by any means. It can happen to any tough guy who thinks he can handle himself in any situation, even when it makes no sense to even battle. In any city in the world.

I have used ATMs all throughout Colombia at various times, day and night, in different levels of barrios. I have never had a single issue. Now, I was born in raised in Brooklyn, NYC, so my sense of personal security is much more tuned to the crimimal element in Colombia.

However, when my luck runs out and I do get robbed, they can have my money. I'll personally hand it over to them, and ask for COP10.000 for a taxi. It's a business transaction. An offer you can't refuse, your money or your life.

By the way, just got back from another quick jaunt to BAQ and BOG. No issues with at the ATMs.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Hunter says on Sep 27, 2005, 09:26:

ATM Gringo deaths Only one foreigner has been killed at a ATM this year to my knowledge and that is the one the one in Bogota last week, presuminmg he was killed at a ATM that is.

In the news reports of the gringo who was killed in Cali, they said that he was killed at a ATM, but it wasn't true, he was killed after making a large (for Colombia) bank withdrawl after leaving the bank.

Hunter

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WestCoastGirl says on Sep 27, 2005, 09:42:

Not necessarily I don't think the ATM robbery can be intrepreted as an isolated incident. I believe it can probably happen to anyone withdrawing funds. My husband grew up in Bogota and he was robbed at knife point for his Nikes. My Dad lives in Cali and he regularly withdraws funds from the ATM, although, someone did get a copy of his card (no idea how) and had a great time in Cartegena. Needless to say, identity theft happen everywhere.

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elmodefoque says on Sep 27, 2005, 09:59:

I wish I had something terrifying to add to this subject but to be honest, for me, Colombia is the only place where I really feel completely safe, anywhere in Colombia for that matter. But, at the same time I do understand the fear most gringo feel in Colombia. In Colombia I’m Juan la Verga, I argue with cops and soldiers, criminals don’t dare mess with me and I gotto ATM’s any freaking time I want, but in USA I’m the complete opposite, I’m one big pussy. You wanna scare the shit outta me, take my ass to most places in Long Island or Brooklyn by Guido neighborhoods or just about anywhere outside Manhattan, NYC. A couple months ago a friend and I went to the middle of nowhere, Port Jefferson, Long Island to get on a fishing boat. Once we got to that town, my buddy (another spic) and I were too scared to drive around and when we saw a cop cruiser we looked at each other and saw the fear in our faces. I told my friend , as I started to sweat and shake “slow down modefoque, don’t look at him (cop), pretend he’s not there, and just keep going!� the speed limit in a typical town is 25, we were going about 3 miles and hour. At one point we got so hungry that we got enough nerve to get outta the car and walk over to a MacDonald for breakfast. My little fat Dominican friend told me “Mira , mira, hay vienen unos blanquitos, que hacemos? I told him to relax, lets just quickly cross to the other side of the street and we’ll be ok. Man we were a couple scared spic. You gringos watch your ass in Colombia, and I will watch my ass over hear too, and we’ll all be ok.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one. CURRAMBA, EL MEJOR VIVIDERO DEL MUNDO!

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toneloc24 says on Sep 27, 2005, 10:00:

I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm definitely not stupid nor ignorant either. From the time I get on a plane to Colombia, I KNOW what can happen. From the time I get into a cab in Colombia, I KNOW what can happen. I take personal responibility for my own security and I'm accountable own my own actions. No one else is to blame, if I get robbed. I just got sloppy.

If someone thinks he's faster than a speeding bullet in Bogota, or the USA, well.....I just hope he doesn't test that thought. In this case, the dude did, and like most, he paid the consequences. Lack of common sensical action no matter where you are. All they wanted was the money.

I don't compare Colombian cities to any US city. However, the same safety that you apply in US cities must be applied everywhere, even moreso in Colombia and other countries where many people don't have the means to legally support themselves.

However, what makes a gringo life any more news-worthy than that of a Colombian life? Your statement infers exactly that... "his death was being downplayed for the benifit of tourism or whatever bullshit motivates people to say stupid crap like that Colombia is no more dangerous than any other city in the US for a gringo."

Does El Tiempo report every Colombian death at an ATM? Sounds pretty fair and balanced to me.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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cdunn77 says on Sep 27, 2005, 10:33:

I understand the need for people who cannot support themselves to find the means to support themselves, however I don't think that robbing someone (and unfortunately, killing someone) is the way to go about doing it (although I'm sure we all agree with that). I just came back from living in Ethiopia for a year, which is one of the poorest countries in the world. I never hesitated in walking home alone at night, walking around with money, etc, because even though these people are homeless and starving, they don't resort to violence to support themselves. However, I gotta say that one thing I like about many of the less fortunate people in Bogota is that they TRY to make money (e.g. juggling at the traffic lights, etc) as opposed to just begging people for it. People are more apt to help them out if they're working for it, as opposed to just sitting on the street with their hands out.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 27, 2005, 10:33:

carry a backpack Not all gringos = ricos

I was riding in a taxi in Costa Rica and we passed a couple of backpackers. The taxi driver told me: los gringos con bolsas no tienen dinero.

So if you need to go to an ATM, just wear your Bob Marley t-shirt, a back pack, and your birkenstocks and maybe, with any luck, the would-be robber will just wait for the next gringo in dockers and a polo shirt.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 27, 2005, 10:34:

I agree One thing I always tell people who just arrived here from the states is to not let themselves get lulled into complacency just because Bogota isn't the "Clear and Present Danger" place they'd imagined. It's really easy to see how nice and calm things are in the N. of Bogota where most foreigners live and think that means it's completely safe.

Bad shit can go down anywhere, both in Colombia and in the states, and it's always good to be aware.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 27, 2005, 10:35:

Hotel Sun City? Anyone else seeing the ad for "Hotel Sun City" on this page? What were they possibly thinking? Maybe Tone is the only other person who will get it, but what a horrible name given the historica apartheidl context.

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cdunn77 says on Sep 27, 2005, 10:38:

Also, I agree with what GIB said about gringos being rich and how we are targets. Although I haven't really seen it too much here (since I haven't been here for very long) it was the same situation in Ethiopia. In their eyes, white people are walking ATM machines, but what they don't seem to realise is that many people that were there were actually volunteering, thus, not making ANY money at all! It got EXTEMELY annoying after a while to always have 2 year olds, up to 50 year olds running straight up to you when you're walking, even though you're dressed in scummy clothes and an obviously well off Ethiopian business man, dressed in suit and carrying a briefcase, walks right by, unscathed. It's not fair!

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aztec says on Sep 27, 2005, 10:47:

Some of are a little slow... ...calipro. Please tell us how many Colombians are killed by Americans each year in Colombia.

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kernow62 says on Sep 27, 2005, 12:27:

...calipro. Please tell us how many Colombians are killed by Americans each year in Colombia.

I would imagine lots of fat gringos have heart attacks and die on top of a Colombiana. Of course I imagine a lot of weird things.

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aztec says on Sep 27, 2005, 12:57:

Oh!... ...didn't think about that. I can remember the first week in Bogota. I thought I was having a heart attack. It turned out to be the altitude.

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kernow62 says on Sep 27, 2005, 13:41:

It is weird how altitude can affect one person and not another. I felt better in Colombia than I do at sea level!

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 27, 2005, 13:49:

Bogota I kept getting short of breath in Bogota, too, but it was because of a Colombiana. She took my breath away!

My guess is that this is such a common occurance it's no longer news. Sort of like traffic fatalities: 40,000+ people die on the highways each year and about 40% of those are alcohol related. But since it's not on the news, it must not really happen. Heart disease and cancer are even bigger killers (together, they caused over a million deaths in the U.S. in 2002), but you don't see much mention of that either, so you probably don't have to really worry about them, either.

According to the site, 28,731 people killed themselves in the U.S. in 2002. Maybe we should stay away from ourselves for our own protection?!

Bottom line: a couple of people killed by an ATM really doesn't constitute a risk of statistical significance. Especially when "death by cash withdrawl" is easily avoided.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 27, 2005, 14:00:

Mr. H I caught that a long time ago, but wasn't even worth the discussion. The things we deal with....people just don't get it. LOL!!!

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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toneloc24 says on Sep 27, 2005, 14:55:

GIB/CDunn GIB is right in that gringos in Colombia are targets, esp. white guys. It is true that the general Colombian perception that every white American is rich. Some of you guys perpetuate that.

How many threads are there on this site alone about transferring large lump sums of money down to Colombia, to buy this and that, to ship some brand new sports cars down to CTG, about guys bragging on what kinda money they're worth to some chicas they just met, about guys sending $200-$1000USD to a chica they met on the internet, etc.?

Think about it. Ladrones, sicarios, and even scheming chicas get wet dreams thinking about how to scam/rob these dudes. Unfortunately, some of that spill over into regular honest folks, who get robbed or killed as a result of these perceptions. It's just another form of capitalism. Capitalizing on you!

Robbery and murder definitely are not right, regardless of the situation. However, a lot of things in Colombia are not right either. You gotta take the bad with the good. Plan and act accordingly.

Here's the thing that really gets me, as I stated before. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING INTO WHEN YOU GO TO COLOMBIA. People don't get on a plane to Colombia, esp. from the USA, WITHOUT knowing the risks that await them in Colombia. It ain't like jumping on a plane to Europe or Spain. How people lull themselves into such a sense of security IN COLOMBIA, when they would never do the same in soem places within the USA, Brixton UK, Rio de Janeiro, amongst other places, is beyond me. Personal responsibility and accountability. If you don't like the way it is, just don't go to Colombia. It is what it is.

FYI - I just got back from a trip to Colombia, did an overnight layover in Bogota on Sunday nite. Everything was pretty closed down, so I ended up in Casona's in Barrio Santa Fe (Zona de Tolerencia) around 10:30 pm. Cheap drinks, cheap women, entertainment. Even though I go there all the time, I would NEVER advise a white American to go down there alone or even in groups. Some do without incident. However, there is no security for you.

I was probably sitting around drinking and BSing with Elmo's and my kinda Colombians (the off-duty taxistas and bus drivers, ladrones, narcos, sicarios, just relative dregs of society, with a few other well-dressed Colombian dudes), all having a good time, minding their own business. I danced with a few chicas and talked for a while. I felt comfortable and enjoyed my time there.

However, at no time, did I let my guard down. I didn't have my ATM card with me, nor my passport (color copy). I had just enough cash to reasonably enjoy the nite and that if I got robbed, the ladron would still have enough to give me cabfare back in exchange for no problems. Most do that.

I actually witnessed one Colombian shooting another in the face directly in front of Las Paisas Bar in July of this year. Just a little battle between two groups that escalated to that point. The dude lived, but by the time I'd gone back into the bar, ordered and finished my drink, still no police and no one shocked at what happened. Violence is a part of Colombian culture, no matter how people sugarcoat it. It's been like that for a long time.

So if you find yourself in a robbery situation, just chalk it up as a loss. Don't fight it as you already lost the battle. You'll only end up getting shot (and possibly killed) over what would amount to a hill of beans. Is it worth it? Your pride can't be that strong.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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cdunn77 says on Sep 27, 2005, 15:34:

Where'd my other post go? I posted another thread right before the one previously and for some reason it was deleted! Anyway, in it I mentioned that in Ethiopia, it is one of THE most poorest countries in the world and I do not feel threatened at all there. People there don't generally rob people for money... they beg. Now I know that they do too here and I must say that I appreciate the homeless people at the stop lights that work for their money by juggling or whatever. However, there's no reason why the poor people in one country (that's MUCH poorer than this one) find a way to make do without resorting to violence and others do.

I know that people choose to come and go as they please and if they feel so threatened then they shouldn't come to Colombia. I for one, however, don't feel threatened here (perhaps b/c I don't go out all the time).

Also, sometimes it's just a matter of being in the wrong place at the wrong time... the bar I worked at in Sydney, Australia got robbed when I was just about to walk out the door a few years back. We got robbed by 5 guys that all came in with guns and pointed the guns directly in our faces. It happened, and that was that! We weren't stupid enough to argue with them... hell, it wasn't our tiny sums of money they were after anyway, it was the bars!

Obviously no matter what city you're in, you have to be vigilent and I know my friends and family really wished I didn't choose Colombia as my next stop, but I did and so far so good! (although it'd be much better if I could find someone to golf with!) :-)

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calipro says on Sep 27, 2005, 15:37:

aztec, kernow I made a long post explaining how I met some private U.S military contractors in Cali but I lost it.


These U.S. civilian guys are making good living by killing colombianos everyday. And if you ask me, they aren't to picky about who they kill if the pay is right.

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aztec says on Sep 27, 2005, 16:44:

I would appreciate calipro ... ...your reposting that information. Some of us may indeed have the ability to find out what is occurring that allows U.S. citizens to kill and murder innocent people in Colombia. So we need to be rather exact with the information. Thanks.

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kernow62 says on Sep 27, 2005, 16:52:

Finding out is one thing, doing something to stop it might be an altogether different kettle of fish.

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aztec says on Sep 27, 2005, 16:56:

You might... ...be surprised especially if the activity is illegal or in violation of U.S.law.

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platano says on Sep 27, 2005, 17:19:

These "bad shit happens anywhere" comments bother me... Makes it seem like anywhere you go murder is possible, even likely, given human nature... I disagree. Colombia has 61 murders per 1000. Many countries have ZERO. So, it's not like "bad shit happens anywhere" is a true statement when it comes to considering high murder rates.

56. Switzerland 0.00 per 1000 people
57. Indonesia 0.00 per 1000 people
58. Greece 0.00 per 1000 people
59. Hong Kong 0.00 per 1000 people
60. Japan 0.00 per 1000 people
61. Saudi Arabia 0.00 per 1000 people
62. Qatar 0.00 per 1000 people


Plátano X
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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aztec says on Sep 27, 2005, 17:23:

Thanks... ...platano. That kind of factual data should keep us focused.

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Crazy4Cali says on Sep 27, 2005, 17:55:

Remember... that's 61 reported murders per 1000

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kernow62 says on Sep 27, 2005, 18:56:

Aztec, I am beginning to wonder if America doesn't just make the rules as they go.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 27, 2005, 19:15:

I have a little trouble with those stats I have a little trouble believing that Indonesia and Saudi Arabia have zero murders. Maybe the Saudis just don't count all the stonings of "loose" women as murder. And Indonesia has a few tough corners where it seems it'd be fairly easy to get murdered.

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calipro says on Sep 27, 2005, 19:26:

Apples and Oranges 61. Saudi Arabia 0.00 per 1000 people

I worked with a guy that was stationed in Saudi Arabi during his time in the army.

He told be that they had public executions every Sunday so he went to one.

The crowd saw that he was a foreigner so they pushed him and his buddy to the front row for a good view.

They cut the guy's head off right in front of him, blood squirting everywhere and then they put a bag over a woman's head and shot her in the head.

According to my friend they were convicted of adultery. If the Arabs ever take over Colombia, half the male population would be on death row!

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cdunn77 says on Sep 27, 2005, 19:32:

Only half???

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kernow62 says on Sep 27, 2005, 19:47:

Calipro, I bet they don't get a lot of repeat offenders!

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juanalejo says on Sep 27, 2005, 20:55:

http://www.cedavril.com/2005/08/09/pre-colombia-nerves/ « Show Us Your Galapagos BoobiesBiffo In Bogota »Pre-Colombia Nerves
9/8/05

OK this is a diary log that I am writing whilst sitting in the boarding lounge in Quito, Ecuador awaiting a flight to Bogota, Colombia.

I am writing this because Colombia is the most dangerous place that we have been to and is scaring the living shit out of us, and I thought it would be cool to document our thought processes and planning so we can compare them to our thoughts later… especially if we have a fantastic time, or if we end up dead at the hands of FARC guerillas.

The Background

Firstly, Colombia is a place where the guerillas belong to several organisations that are left wing or right wing or have Marxist connnections and basically they are all unhappy about the government siding with the US government in burning the local’s coca fields without compensating them.

Basically the US’s policy is that to fix the cocaine problem in the US, they have to destroy the source, and hence there is a great hatred to the US in the poorer areas of Colombia, and a belief that the US shouldn’t infringe upon other countries for their own social problems back home. This is an opinion that I personally agree with.

In anycase, the guerillas have been involved in bombings, kidnappings and deaths. Mainly the kidnappings are for ransom to fund their cause and in late 2003 several tourists including a brit and some israelis were all captured in a popular tourist area and were marched through the jungle for 4 months.

Why Are We Going

In 1998 when we were here, most backpackers that we met who went to Colombia claimed that it was the most beautiful country that they had been too. Also, most people claimed that although they had been mugged at gunpoint or knife point, they all thought that Colombia was their most favourite country in South America.

We found that absolutely fascinating since we loved most of the countries and to hear that there was an even more amazing country really tickled our curiosity. However, we really didn’t have the balls or the time to go back then.

Our Planning.

Most of our planning was done on line on the Lonely Planet Travel Forum – the Thorn Tree, and sites like www.poorbuthappy.com.

The general feel on the sites was that Colombia is an amazing place that most tourists go to and have no problems as long as they don’t take night buses, go into known guerilla areas, and don’t go out at night. There are a lot of safe places such as Bogota, Cartegena and Medellin and the risk of kidnapping is low.

However, there was also quite a few negative posts claiming that if something does happen to you like being kidnapped, then it would be very, very bad, and you would end up being very very dead!!!

Additionally, life is cheap in Colombia so there are a lot of scams and muggings and carjackings etc.

So What’s Our Feeling

We really don’t know what to believe. The people who rave about the country, either had nothing happen to them, or got mugged in a minor way. And the people who advised caution really did get mugged badly or heard of someone who did.

If you want to get a feel for the scary things we read here are some excerpts…



AUSTRALIAN DFAT WARNING
Australians are advised to defer non-essential travel to Colombia with the exception of the cities of Bogotá and Cartagena. Australians in Bogotá and Cartagena, and those who consider their presence in other parts of Colombia to be essential, should exercise extreme caution. Terrorist, insurgent and paramilitary groups are active throughout Colombia and there is a high risk of kidnapping, including of foreigners, in all parts of Colombia.



Colombia has one of the highest rate of kidnappings in the world. Most kidnappings are for ransom, and conducted by groups such as the FARC and ELN in rural areas, but a significant number take place in major urban centres including Bogotá and Cartagena. Foreigners (including children) have been kidnapped and murdered. Due to the risk of kidnapping, travel between major cities should only be by air. Road travel outside major centres should be avoided, including to rural tourist attractions such as the Ciudad Perdida (The Lost City).


Our Reaction

On our return from the Galapagos, we returned to Quito and hit the internet to suss out the latest situation. I had been feeling OK as the general vibe was positive, but then I read some more scary internet posts…

Avril and I had a minor argument that night as she was keen on getting to some of the more amazing places, which I felt may be too dangerous, and yet I was a bit annoyed at her for feeling Quito was dangerous when I really didn’t feel it was.

I was a bit worried that she was underestimating the danger and she was worried I was overestimating the danger. In fact even outside the door of the travel agent when going to buy the tickets, I paused and said “Do we really want to do this?�


Now.

Since booking our ticket, we now have read some more and still remain confused at the true danger level as there are definitely conflicting reports, but we figure that several million people live in Bogota with no problems, so at least if we go there, we can suss the situation better.

Additionally, our spanish is passable and we are acutally quite experienced in latin america so we aren’t exactly naive.

Still, this morning whilst walking to a museum, Avril stopped me on the street and said “ Just in case anything happens to us in Colombia, I want you to know that I love you.� I told her I knew that and she said that she just needed to say it. It was very touching, but a really good example of how much this has been on our mind.

Also I emailed Darlene and told her how to inform our friends if anything happens and told her that we had registered her name as a contact with the Australian Embassy in Brazil in the event of anything happening to us also.

Additonally, for the last few days, I have been running fight sequences in my head. This is something that I have done over the last 18 years with martial arts training and I enjoy the chess type sequence of moves and counter moves. But the last few days have been amazing in the fact that it has been all consuming…I have been dreaming fight sequences and most of my waking quiet time has been filled with fight sequencing which I haven’t been able to stop. I’m sure it is an anxiety response.

Additionally, I have even worked out how to use my leatherman pocket scissors as a weapon, but it only has a penetrative distance of 7cm so it can only be used on the head and neck area…fuck…how paranoid am I…

Saying that, we are also in full recognition that it isn’t worth fighting over a few dollars if we do get mugged, but we have discussed how I would fight on the off chance something nasty happens so at least Avril is prepared.

We also have discussed that if we get kidnapped, we are going to tell them that our families aren’t going to pay a ransom as both of our parents are single parents and that we have an interracial relationship and hence our families have disowned us.

Despite all of this amazingly paranoid planning, we are optomistic that we have prepared well and have a fair idea of the safe places to visit. Well at least we were until we heard that a FARC leader was captured and talks for a hostage exchange had fallen through so there has been an increase in violence.

Well we’ll see how we go. If things are well, then you will be reading this in 3 weeks time and laughing at how paranoid we were. If things don’t go well, then you won’t be reading this at all and we’ll be in deep sh,it…

Ciao Ced the shit scared

El Link

« Pre-Colombia NervesCoffee, Cowgirls & The Return Of Ced’s Libido »Biffo In Bogota
12/8/05

Hola Muchachos y Muchachas

Well we’ve been in Colombia now for 4 days and HOLY CRAP is it dangerous!!!

The pavement is all crooked and they have streetposts that are knee height all over the place so I’ve twisted my ankle twice and whacked my knee several times… man… I don’t think I’ve been in more dangerous a place…

…OK… I’ll stop being a tos.ser now… Seriously, Colombia really isn’t too bad… so far… touch wood…

Just before we arrived, we were completely freaked out and paranoid and had visions of being kidnapped by FARC guerillas as soon as we stepped off the plane. And if the guerillas didn’t get us then the drug lords and nasty criminals that go around carjacking people would get us and we’d be way DEADER than a dead thing…

We actually even wrote a diary entry documenting our paranoia and fear which we’ll post up if we leave Colombia safely, so you can all get a laugh at how FREAKED out we were.

In anycase, we arrived last Wednesday and pulled into the Platypus Hostel which is considered to be THE backpacker place where everyone turns up to try and get information from other travellers about the safety situation.

The crappy hostal however is in the old town which used to be pretty dangerous, but the guys at the hostal claimed that it was now safe to walk around at night which we did… and honestly, we felt fine on the streets…

However, that was until one of the backpackers had a knife pulled on him as he was undoing the lock to get into the hostal… so after that we decided that we did probably need to be a little more careful.

It was actually pretty funny since we were actually in the corridor on the other side of the door and heard him ringing the doorbell frantically and ignored him since there was a big sign on the door saying “Don’t Open The Door For People You Don’t Know.� So we actually walked away from the door as he was being mugged as we weren’t sure what to do… oh well… sh.it happens…

The next day, an Israeli friend of ours watched as a bagsnatcher ran off with a backpacker’s bag right in front of a policeman and a private security guard and none of them helped him catch the guy, which also is a bit freaky, but we weren’t too surprised as all the books warn you that no-one will help you if sh.it happens…

In anycase, Bogota was actually pretty cool. We didn’t witness any danger ourselves and had a couple of days of walking around checking out museums and just soaking up the vibe. We’ve even been out until close to midnight in Colombia and had no problems, although we’ve certainly been looking over our shoulders a lot and walking around with really mean looks on our faces…

Before we came we honestly thought Colombia would just be lots of guerillas running around in the jungle, but in actual fact, Bogota, is this massive bussling city with lots of colonial architecture mixed with ultra modern buildings and more people on the streets than any place we’ve been to in South America.

The only drama we had was actually with other backpackers. Yesterday, we decided we’d leave and head to Medellin on a plane which we had to catch early in the morning. However, at about 3.30am a bunch of 8 backpackers came back from clubbing and set up right outside our room to party on…

Now since it has been many years since I have been stoned, I can honestly say nothing F.U.CKS me off more than a bunch of stoners trying to sing along to Bob Marley through crappy i-pod speakers at 3.30am in the morning!!!

We spent 1 and a half hours in bed absolutely spewing, and as we were so F.U.CKED OFF we were thinking we may have to initiate OPERATION SH.IT SCARED Part 2.

Now for those of you who weren’t getting our South America travel logs in 1998, you can click here to read about Operation Sh.it Scared: Avril Vs The Israelis.

In anycase, Avril eventually got up and politely asked them to be quiet which they ignored, so I eventually went out and told them all to SHUT THE F.U.CK UP… which of course they ignored too…

Well, after all the built up stress of getting ready for danger in Colombia, I went completely agro, and started yelling at them and when a british guy and german guy got up to go the biff me, I pulled out my best testosterone ladened yobo aussie accent and said “Right Mate… you wanna sort this out RIGHT NOW!!!�

Now, I’m normally such a pacifist, so I was pretty impressed at how nasty I sounded especially when they both backed off… However, it wasn’t til later that I realised that they were probably more scared of my spikey bed hair up and the dried dribble that was on my cheeks…

In anycase, it actually felt really good to let off some steam, and really, agression is just like toxic spe.rm build up… it’s so much more fun to release with other people…

Anyhows, we are now in Medellin which other than being known as the cocaine capital of Colombia where Pablo Escobar lived, it is also well known as having the most beautiful women in the world.

Things looked pretty good when there was actually a fashion show on the plane with a hot guy and 2 hot chicks strutting their stuff in slinky clothes up and down the aisle…muy coolo…

However, now that we’ve been here for 2 days, I can honestly say that I think the hot chick thing is TOTALLY overrated!!!

Certainly the chicas here are all OK if you are into latino chicks, and certainly they all wear the usual South American look of overdone make-up, skimpy tight top, push up bras and jeans so tight that I’m sure that they all have fungal infections… but honestly they just don’t do it for me…

Maybe it’s because my hot chikkie babita Avril has bedazzled me so much that I don’t find other women attractive, or maybe the stress of possibly being kidnapped in Colombia has sapped my libido… but I really don’t think that the chicas here are the best in the world…

In anycase, it’s been a bit tough since there are no asians here, so I stick out like dog’s balls and getting a good perve going is really tough when they are all staring at me too…boo hoo…

Anyways, tomorrow we are going to head south the Valle de Cocora which is safe and we’ll probably chill out in a Colombian coffee plantation, and after that we aren’t sure what we’ll do.

One of the best archaeological sites that we want to go to is in a guerilla controlled area, but by all reports there is a truce on in this area, so we need to suss out the safety situation first.

If you’re bored, we’ve uploaded a few photos of Ecuador on this link, and we’ll upload some Colombian stuff later.

Muchos Kisses and all that gooshy stuff… keep us up to date with news from home…

Love and biffo

Streetfighter Ced & Hot Chica Babita Avril

El Link

« Biffo In BogotaFARC The Guerillas… Colombia ROCKS!!! »Coffee, Cowgirls & The Return Of Ced’s Libido
16/8/05

Que Pasa Chicks, Chickadees and other furry animals…

Well we are currently the only foreigners in a place completely off the tourist map called Quimbaya in the Zona Cafetera (Coffee Growing Zone) in central Colombia and all we can say is that COLOMBIA ROCKS!!!

Before we came here, every traveller we met in 1998 and on-line told us Colombia was their most favourite place in South America which amazed us since the rest of South America is so fantastic… and now that we’ve been here for a couple of weeks, we’d have to agree too… Colombia is WAY COOL!!!

We weren’t overly impressed with the cities of Bogota and Medellin as they just looked like all the other cities in South America, but getting out to the country has been truly FUNKY and FANTASTIC!

Colombia is at the northern tail end of the Andes as they flatten out and the terrain is mainly a corrugation of mountains, valleys and plateaus and every district in Colombia seems to have a different look due to the variety in vegetation. In fact Colombia claims to have the most variety of plants and animals in the world second only to Brazil.

Coming down in a bus from Bogota, we passed fields of giant furry bamboo, brilliant red coffee plants and dense lush green fields speckled with brilliant white trees… it was so picturesque, but if there were a few more CIA type fellas running around burning coca trees, then it would have been perfect!!!

However, the most amazing and way coolest place that we went to was the Valle de Cocora.

When we were at home deciding on where to go, I came across a picture of the Valle de Cocora on the Lonely Planet website, and the picture was so surreal, that it was one of the reasons we came to Colombia. We should hopefully have some pics up in the next couple of days.

The Valle de Cocora is a valley speckled with thousands of wax palms, the world’s tallest palm tree which can grow to 60m in height and live for up to 200 years. However, even more impressive is that at the altitude of the valley, the whole area is considered to be a cloud forest as it is permanently surrounded in mist… so seeing palm trees here is like stepping back into dinosaur days…

We walked for the whole day through a stunningly lush green valley of rolling green fields with the shadowy ghosts of the palm trees fading in and out of the mists… totally EERIE and absolutely tranquil… Holy cow… the place was soooooo awesome, I can’t even think of enough gooshy mooshy things to write about it….

You’ll have to check the photos as it would have to be one of the most amazingly beautiful places in the whole universe that we have been to… and you know we’ve been to a lot of places… we loved it!!!

We also hooked up here with Paola, a Colombian girl and Colin an English guy who were great company as they really gave us a local’s insight into the food and culture of Colombia.

They took us to an organic coffee farm which was cool as we had a great cup of Colombian coffee which thrilled us since getting good coffee in Colombia is really hard since they export all the good stuff…(Anne, you would have loved this)

And the other cool thing they did was to take us to a bullfighting ring.

Now as you know, I am morally opposed to such things being an animal lover and all… but this one seemed to be OK as they don’t kill the bull, they only do the charging at the red sheet thing… Still, I was kind of hoping that the matador was going to cop a bull up his a’rse and get a ho’rny prostatic biopsy…

In anycase, the reason that the bullring was cool, was because of the COWGIRLS!!!…Yeehaaa…!!!

OK… I really didn’t think I had a thing for COWGIRLS!!!… Yeehaaa…!!!, but they really did rock my world that day!!!

The reason I mention this is because we were surprised at how many disappointed replies we got from our last email where I said that Colombian girls weren’t hot…

Well please ignore all the things I wrote in that email because I’m a complete tos’ser and Colombia girls are definitely HOT!

I don’t know what happened to me… I really think the worry about being catnapped by Magilla Guerillas really did lib-otomise my libi’do…

In anycase, the COWGIRLS!!!… Yeehaaa…!!! have totally giddy-upped my lib’ido so I’m back in the saddle again BABY…!!!

Yep, the Medellin girls didn’t do it for me as they are a bit plastic fantastic, and we were told that it’s not uncommon for girls to get bo’ob jobs once they’ve graduated from high school. But once out of the cities, the girls are gorgeous and really nice, and definitely second only to Argentinian girls when it comes to se’x appeal!!!

…and for all you single guys… they seemed to be completely accessible since at some of the hostels we were at, there were backpackers coming back with a DIFFERENT girl everynight… sigh… if only I was single again… that way I could relive my youth and… um… err… come back with a DIFFERENT kebab everynight… OK… I’m a geeky loser…

…and for all you girls… after Colin the English guy organised a spontaneous street party for us where Avril got a bit of salsa dirty dancing… Avril has officially announced that she reckons Colombian guys are even hotter than Brazilian guys!!!!!! Brazillians are definitely more fit and toned, but she reckons the Colombians just have really exotic features… so no kebabs for her tonight!!!!

Anyways, tomorrow we are planning to head to a coffee theme park with rides and all (Anne, you just have to come down here sometime!), and then we are going to head to Popayan a colonial city in the south so we can research whether we can get into San Augustin an archeaological site that is next to a guerilla occupied area.

Anyhows, gotta go and dream of COWGIRLS!!!… Yeehaaa…!!!

Lots of Love

Ced the Studdly Kebab Magnetic and Avril (Salsa is not just a hot sauce) Bowie

PS. Sorry we haven’t been able to load any pics yet as the internet connections su’ck, so we’ll do it in the next week or so…. and hopefully we’ll try and get some shots of the spu’nky muchachos and muchachas too…

El Link

« Coffee, Cowgirls & The Return Of Ced’s LibidoMud In Our Cracks »FARC The Guerillas… Colombia ROCKS!!!
21/8/05

Buenos to all you Funny Bunnies and Secret Squirrels…

Well we are currently in an amazingly beautiful colonial city in southern Colombia called Popayan after a completely crappy ride from San Augustin an archaeological site next to a guerilla occupied area.

We are absolutely SHA’GGED since they managed to squeeze us into a sardine can van with 20 other stinky locals on a road so bad that it took us 7 hours to go only 121kms!!! I’m sure I busted at least 2 vertebra and a haemorrhoid on the potholes… It’s times like these that backpacking really SU’CKS!!!

In anycase, San Augustin was the most risky part of our journey so far and we had no dramas…

San Augustin is an amazing archaeological site from a mysterious race from about 600AD which predates the Incas. Not much is known about them but they left hundreds of amazingly freaky monolith statues and tombs scattered through the jungle and across amazingly beautiful green rolling hills.

Some of the statues were up to 7m tall so they have been compared to those that we saw in Easter Island, so we were pretty keen to see them especially since not many people have been there since the FARC guerillas used to occupy the area.

We were pretty nervous going there originally, especially since the guide books said that there was a FARC guerilla checkpost on the road to San Augustin, and we had heard that they had intensified their fighting in the district next to San Augustin since one of their leaders was captured.

Additionally, we figured that they are definitely the most BADAR’SED out of the 3 main guerilla groups since I had just read that they had ambushed a carload of priests in the past and killed 2 of them… killing Jason Priestly type dudes ALWAYS FREAKS US OUT!!!

In anycase, we spent a day speaking to the police and on the internet researching the safety situation and everyone reassured us that the FARC had been chased out a couple of years ago so other than the possibility of being mugged at gunpoint by theives, the road was completely safe…

Well we were feeling pretty good at that point until a taxi driver completely FREAKED us out!

On our way to the bus station this taxi dude was happily chatting to us, but as soon as we mentioned that we were going to San Augustin he went all serious and then pulled over the cab and told us to cancel our tickets as there were definitely guerillas on the road!!!

Needless to say that completely FREAKED ME out as I really didn’t want any Magilla Guerillas catnapping my skinny yellow b’utt!!!!

Avril and I ended up having a reasonably yucky fight over whether we should go or not as Avril was pretty keen to still go though as she figured what would some dumbar’se taxi driver know.

Eventually after promising to seriously kick Avril´s ar´se if we got killed, I gave in and it was a pretty good decision as we didn’t see any Magilla Guerillas and San Augustin really ROCKED!

The town is known as a hippy town as they have an abundance of pretty powerful magic mushies, and since the statues are so FREAKY, archaeologists believe that the shamans here must have been whacked out on SERIOUS magic mushy mooga booga…

The statues were amazing and surreal as the mysterious race carved really evil looking puma gods to guard their tombs and they are scattered across a beautifully lush green crescent shaped field hidden in a deep valley.

We figured their gods must have been VERY VERY powerful deities as one of the statues showed a puma god stretching his p’enis to his mouth and sucking his own d’ick!!! This is a superpower that all mortal men aspire to, but it is a power that only remains in the realm of the Gods…

We also stayed on a really cool farm in a tee pee built by a Swiss dude just outside of town in a beautifully tranquil area. This was cool as we had the place to ourselves since there are almost no tourists here… we were really sad to leave…

Anyhow, tomorrow we fly out to Cartegena a world heritage listed colonial city on the Carribean coast in the far north of Colombia. We are loving Colombia so much right now that we were considering extending our time to get a couple of more cool places in, but in reality, I reckon we’ll be back here soon as the place and the people are amazing.

Anyways, gotta go…

We’ve now uploaded our pics from the amazing Valle De Cocora and also San Austin…

Lots of magic mushiness and mooga booga

Ced the Infirmed after trying to stretch his p’enis and Avril the Tee Pee Girl

PS Trip Stats for those on the road. We stayed at Finca El Maco about 2km outside of San Augustin on the way to the archaeological park (www.elmaco.ch). Really awesome place to chill out but bring your own reading material as you will be spending a lot of time in hammocks. Best pizza and pasta at Boemia Cafe on the road out to the park. Don’t take the Cootranshuila bus as it takes 2 hours longer than the minibuses run by Linea Estelar and drops you 5km out of town. There are no guerillas on the road and we weren’t stopped at any military checkposts either. The locals are quite happy that the FARC have been gone for 2 years. You need 4 hours for the main archaeology park, 1 full day for the jeep ride to the distant sites and another possible day for the horse ride to the petroglyphs. We didn’t do the petroglyphs as we were lazy and the theives who held up the Israelis there recently haven’t been caught yet, but other travellers we met did it and found it to be safe and beautiful. Popayan is worth a night stopover for night photography as the whole town is painted white and the streets are lighted with lanterns.

El Link

« FARC The Guerillas… Colombia ROCKS!!!Fromage a Trois In Nicaragua »Mud In Our Cracks
30/8/05

Hey there friends, family and other furry animals…

Well we are currently sitting in Panama Airport on our way to Nicaragua and honestly, after all the scary stuff we were worried about, we LOVED Colombia and saying goodbye is actually really sad…

Colombia has been such a friendly place to travel and the raw natural beauty of the place is definitely one of the world’s best kept secrets… We have now totally joined the masses who have been converted and we now would say that Colombia is definitely the best country to visit in South America.

In actual fact, for all you funny bunnies who have been to South America and didn’t make it to Colombia, you definitely have to try and get back someday soon as we reckon Colombia is poised to be the next big thing and it would be great to see it now before it is spoilt by tourism…

It wasn’t all good though… After our last email we headed north to Cartegena which was meant to be this fantastically beautiful world heritage listed colonial town on the Carribean Coast that everyone raves about…

…but instead of being charming we found it noisy, hot, dirty and stinky… which is fine if you like your cities …or women… that way, but we definitely preferred the tranquility and friendliness of the south.

The town definitely had some really nice colonial architecture and some amazingly fantastic history and the city is surrounded by a fortified wall from defending against pirates back in the 1600s which is sort of cool… however, we stayed in the grotty backpacker end of town and it SUCKED dead dogs…

Now normally when we read in the guidebooks that the backpacker area in a town is in the dirty budget end of the city, we normally ignore it, as those areas are often full of character and charm… However, after almost going the biffo with a rorting taxi driver, and then walking out of our hostel to find a decomposing dog on the sidewalk next a lady happily selling sweets, we totally FLIPPED OUT!!!

We don’t normally cut short a visit, but we decided this time to hightail it back to the south, especially since Cartengena is a definite overated FAT TOURIST town so everyone is out to be your amigo and rort you…

The only redeeming factor is that we got to get some mud in our cracks…

Now, we’re not talking about when you have diarrhea and you accidentally slip out a wet fart that leads you to proclaim proudly to your mates “…ew…I think there was mud with that one…�

…No… instead we got to swim in Volcan Totumo a 20m big mud volcano!!! Apparently, when rotting material decays, it causes gases to bubble up and liquify mud that then forms a volcano, and the thing to obviously do is to swim in it…

You can check out photos of our muddy bits on our website as it was so much fun being a pig in mud… But even more fun was then getting stripped butt naked and washed down by the local women in the nearby lagoon… sigh… it won’t be until 20 years time when Avril is older, that I’ll get to be felt up by a postmenopausal woman with saggy t’its again…

Other than that, we headed south again to an amazing cathedral called Sanctuario De Las Lajas which is built into the side of a valley where Mary was supposed to have appeared… It is definitely the most amazing church we have ever seen and heaps of miracles have supposedly appeared here although the biggest miracle is that we didn’t throw up from all the deep fried guinea pigs that line the entrance way… Even though they are the local speciality, I won’t forget the looks on their little deep fried faces…

Anyways, we have now posted up the rest of our Colombia photos which start half way down page 2. We also forgot to post the pics of the fashion show that we got on our plane, so they are up too…

And lastly, we get a lot of people who keep saying that they would like to travel to exciting places like we do, but they don’t feel that they are as intrepid as we are… SO…as promised we have posted up a diary entry that I wrote on the day before we got to Colombia to show that we are just NORMAL paranoid scaredy cats with big puffy tails… if you want to read it and have a laugh at how PARANOID I was, just click here.

It’s a bit long winded so don’t read it unless you like psychobabble or if you want to get a glimpse into Ced’s head- which you may be surprised to find is filled with more than just bubblewrap, fluffy bunnies and cereal box toys…

But basically we got the idea from our mate Darren’s website and wanted to do a before and after Colombia post to show how much unbalanced media controls our fears and how fear of the unknown can really freak you out…

And we reckon that fear of the unknown is one of those things that not only stops people from travelling, but also from progressing with anything in their life so we’ll always look back on Colombia as more than just a cool funky place… it was more about a place for overcoming fear…

…oh and it is definitely the BEST PERVE in Latin America… for boys and girls, and we definitely will sign off by saying GRACIAS for the GRASSY-AR’SEs as Colombians have the best bu’tts too!!! (thanks to Dom who I stole that saying from)

Wishing you lots of Love and Smooches and Mud Bunnies in your pants

Wet Cheeks Ced and Mud Taco Avril

PS Trip Stats for anyone who is interested. Colombia is dangerous for sure but the dangerous places are well demarcated and easily avoided and all the tourist sites we went to are nowhere near the guerilla zones. The current president is doing a really good job with security. The kidnapping risk seems non-existent as most of these are political or of wealthy people and we know that none of our friends are wealthy. We wouldn’t advise taking night buses for the risk of holdups, but we took several day buses and never felt that they were unsafe. The mugging risk is no worse than any other capital city and Lima and Quito seem to be much more dangerous than Bogota. You do need at least some backpacker Spanish to get around and feel safe as there is not much English outside of Bogota. If you have been to other latin american countries, then you will breeze through Colombia as it is much the same feel.

PPS I got pickpocketed for the first time on a bus in Bogota, but I give them a big thumbs up since I was actually watching closely for pickpockets and they still got me… They only stole my decoy wallet though… the fu’ckers…

NICE TO SEE SOME PEOPLE DO KNOW HOW TO GIVE A BALANCED VIEW, NOT ALL GOOD, NOT ALL BAD, JUST A BALANCED VIEW.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Miguel says on Sep 28, 2005, 00:41:

Sh~t Happens Everywhere 24 hours ago, there were 8 shootings resulting in 3 deaths in St. Louis, Missouri, in an area roughly 2 miles from where I work. I walk at night in North Barranquilla. I don't in North St. Louis.

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kernow62 says on Sep 28, 2005, 05:02:

Miguel, I usually don't even watch my local news, but just for giggles I tuned in the night before last. Now remember I live in a little city with one of the largest police budgets in the country and very little unemployment.

Hispanic senior citizen driven to a bank by two men and forced to withdraw $26,000.

Girl attacked and robbed (luckily not raped) as she was leaving work at a local mall.

Man carjacked in affluent area of town for his (this is funny) 1991 Pontiac.

Man robbed and beaten at ATM by three masked men.

In all instances guns were involved and any of them could have easily been shot. And this is just one night and what happened to get reported.

Another thing that is now being reported is that almost all the claims of national guard troops being fired on, helicopters being fired on, firefighters and rescue workers being fired on, children being raped and murdered, in New Orleans after Katrina were complete fabrications!

Now I wonder if those guys that were shot by the National Guard and killed were really firing at them?

Sad thing is because the majority of people in New Orleans are black, the US public were quick to believe it. Sadly I myself am guilty of this.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 28, 2005, 08:43:

Media Hysteria It sells advertising slots, I suppose. But the standards of ALL the major outlets are turning to crap when they just repeat allegations without any proof.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 28, 2005, 09:03:

Tinto Turning to crap??? Been that way for a long time.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Miguel says on Sep 28, 2005, 09:18:

Si Señor "We all know that crap is king...give 'em dirty laundry", as eloquently stated by Don Henley.

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adrimm says on Sep 28, 2005, 12:57:

Great read Juanalejo Thanks for posting it. Don't know if I would have done all that they did (ie cabbie's warning), but I'm glad they enjoyed themselves and didn't run into major problems.

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Miguel says on Sep 29, 2005, 02:12:

Violence Indeed This commentary comes from today's EL PAIS in Cali.

http://elpais-cali.terra.com.co/historico/sep292005/OPN/regist.html

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Rubiazo says on Sep 29, 2005, 19:45:

I have a very simple philosophy I don't EVER let my guard down. I don't trust when somebody says a place is safe, or safer than another place. That doesn't mean safe for YOU. I am always watching in front of and behind of me to make sure nobody is trying to set me up. You can't go too far wrong with that.
As for not using ATMs, not riding public transit, etc. if I felt I needed to take such draconian measures to exist someplace I simply would never fucking go there as a tourist. Who the hell wants to live like that? Frankly, I'd rather have my brains blown out the back of my skull! If I really can't use an ATM somewhere, I just shouldn't be there. Period.

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