Avoiding our own people

analyzethis1 says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:02:

btw, sorry if this topic has already been discussed. but I need some quickies....answers, that is. I'm on an ongoing debate with my friends-thx

There are two kinds of gratitude: The sudden kind we feel for what we receive, and the larger kind we feel for what we give. E.A. Robinson

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:09:

don't have to be sorry, post here get repeated over and over again :))

but never seen one like this...

well moi never gravitate towards Colombian cuz there are not many Colombian were I live i will said hardly ANY South American, in my town I am the only South American and the nearest Colombian as far as I know lives 1 hour from me and she is in the same position as me, she is the only SA in her town, we don't see each other very often but we are good friends.

At the beginning I didn't care but as the time goes by I wish I have more latin friends near, so far nil .:(

engage brain before opening mouth

Philly says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:13:

Sorry, not a Colombian so please excuse me for making a comment. I personally hang out with people who are interesting and that has something intelligent to say. It does not matter where they are from. Oh, another thing, calling Americans " Gringos " is derogatory. We are Americans period. Sorry to sound a little on the defensive, but I am tired of hearing that word. Now, back on the subject. People are people, it does not matter where you are from. There are only 2 other Americans where I am living. Yes, its great having conversations with them but then again, I also have great conversations with Colombians.

vicshere says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:17:

Colombians who call us gringo don't understand it is derogatory...I tried explaining this but they don't get it......they still call me the gringo.....or worst Mr.... I just like being called Vic...and this don Victor doesn't work for me either

listo

kalder says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:22:

The 'Gringos' debate is an old staple.

I gather that, although the word's a pejorative in Mexico, it isn't in Colombia. It's about as weighted as the word 'Latino'. Well, I hope so anyway. I get called it enough.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:24:

we have been on that road many times, place let's change the record!!!

engage brain before opening mouth

Peter (Moderator) says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:24:

I think it depends. When in Colombia, I don't gravitate towards other foreigners, I'm in Colombia for Colombia. But some people do, and that's fine too.

Poor but snappy

kalder says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:29:

Newcombers might find the discussion of interest though.

I can never get used to being called Don Kalder.

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:32:

Yawnnnnnnnnnnnnn. Not derogative. Not in Colombia. Just shorthand for estadounidense.

When I lived in Cali I actively seeked the company of other English-speaking people; during the first months and before I learned Spanish and started dating my husband-to-be. Not Finns because there aren't enough of us to be evenly distributed over the globe, I was the only one in Cali for a long time, just anybody I could talk to and most of my friends were, surprise, surprise, gringos!

Here in Sweden there are plenty of Finns; I stay away from them semi-actively because many of them drink a lot and carry a knife....(just kidding ok!) I neither seek them nor avoid them. They're all over anyway.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

vicshere says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:32:

kalder its a status thing which I never grew up with...so to me that term is very foreign....I grew believing every man is equal to each other....even if one man has more money...they are still equal in gods eyes...and when you die your belongs don't mean shit..so again equal

listo

Philly says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:33:

Kat1, sorry but you can not relate to the Gringo thing, so please keep that comment to your self. How would you like it if you visited the US and people called you anything but your name? There are several derogatory words for Latin Americans but I have too much class to mention them here. In the United States Blacks were called the N-word for years, for the most part, it has dissappeared. Now I am in Colombia dealing with this Gringo thing. How will Colombians know it is derogatory if we do not tell them? Sorry to keep the record playing!!!!

Brians says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:34:

I love being called Gringo! I have fun with it. Now if they called me ugly then we have a problem;)

vicshere says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:38:

brians the truth hurts ;)

listo

kalder says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:38:

Vic- Am I 'Don' because I'm middle-aged or because I've got money? Or a bit of both?

"kalder- have you ever had a woman?"--Sam Salmon

vicshere says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:40:

I guess a bit of both I think it is used to show both respect but more class status

listo

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:46:

Phillyp I think more than have of Colombia don't know where the word gringo come from, and WE never see as something derogatory never ever, my husband and kids have been call gringos my sister's baby gringuito for us there is no harm in that word... nothing malicious...
i said play the record again is because this subject have been battered here thousand of times..


maybe as you said you have to start telling them, my husband never complaint so many of my friends....look at dongringo, gringoloid if they are using the word and they are "gringos" colombiano gringo, does it bother them?

engage brain before opening mouth

Brians says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:47:

You know thinking about it my ex-wife is from Panama. Her family loved to call me Gringo but it was never meant derogatory. Too many other things to get upset about in life so I guess sometimes people are just too sensative. You can't compare the N word with gringo as they are not even close in harm meant. If someone calls you Gringo as a way of putting you down then that is one thing but I never had it used in that manner.

woodybaum says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:52:

since when is gringo derogatory? seriously, grow up

Philly says on Jul 3, 2007, 08:59:

This has way out of hand now. Yes, I am a very sensitive person. Its not just the gringo thing. Colombians call Blacks, "Negros". People who live on the Coast, "Coatestains". To me it is offensive, and to the Colombians it is not . So who is right? We are all entitled to our thoughts and opinions. The people here, I know for a fact do not mean anything, but its something I do not like. Please, lets let this go and make peace.

tomtom33 says on Jul 3, 2007, 09:02:

A1, I'd be happy to satisfy your need for some quickies. When will you be in Medellin next?

Gringo, in Colombia, can just as easily be a European or Canadian. The term has no negative connotations. If some choose to be offended, that is their problem. I am not offended when I am called Gringo.

Since I have to work so hard to converse in Spanish, I do tend to gravitate toward English speakers when I am in Colombia. Unlike some, I am not a Gringo-hater. Of course I don't mind the work with hot, young Colombianas. I gravitate toward them as well.

tomtom33 says on Jul 3, 2007, 09:05:

Costeños live on the coast.

elmodefoque says on Jul 3, 2007, 09:23:

hey tom, check to see if i get a discount from those two girls . I want them both

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

Lowell says on Jul 3, 2007, 09:29:

In Colombia you'll hear people called Chino, Gordo/a, Flaco/a, nego/a... People here don't take offence to that.

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

msaucey says on Jul 3, 2007, 09:50:

Hey Philly, I agree this topic should be dropped... But, maybe you haven't been to the states lately, but there is a WHOLE lot more deragatory terminalogy used to the Latinos in the U.S. then there is anywhere else.... But, I see your point to some extend... There's a lot of Latinos in the states that don't like to be called Hispanics... and the basis is because it's to close to "spic".... If it makes you feel better, some lighter skin Colombians are referred amonst us as "monos"... Q'Bo Mona... and I'm sure they are totally not offended... Remember, Colombians are loving people, they mean no harm... and when they mean harm... You'll know it!

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

griffbos says on Jul 3, 2007, 10:00:

okay I take no offense to being called gringo, but it is used by friends and famly I have had ony one other person ever cal me gringo when in Colombia it was because the shop keeper( friend of a friend) called out in his rather broken english "Hey Mr Gringo I forget your name what is" he now calls me by my name as he remembers it. I also use the word gringo when I do not understand something I am always say "hey what do you want I am gringo" it is an exuse to be stupid about something for me. as msaucey said Colombians are easy going people the mean no harm by the word ,for if they did you will know it

msaucey says on Jul 3, 2007, 10:20:

The Colombian populace in the states is like 3%.... So, trying to find any solidarity amongst our own is a bit difficult.... But, if you go up to Queens, you'll see a meca of Colombians... I think that for the most part it's a social soidarity.... If you're new to a country, you know that your people will give you a helping hand because they can relate to you... But, of course if you're running away from Colombia and all the colombianos, the last place you want to land is Queens... You'd look at the map and say hey... Montana looks good.... But, if you're comfortable with yourself and you are a social person, chances are you'll get along with just anyone... It doesn't matter where they are from.... In L.A. the only time I see a group of Colombians is at the Annual Colombian Independence Day Celebrations or at a restaurant.... For the most part I'm in the midst of Mexicans (which is okay, since I'm Chicana on my dad's side)... and Salvadoreans... and if you all thinks that Mexicans speek crude... you'd be horrified at some of the words that Salvadoreans use... But, that was a different post...

For the most part... I'd say I gravitate towards the gringos, because those are who I actually grew up around and can relate to on certain levels.... Because, my mind has been over polluted with the U.S. mentality... this is how I see it... I don't understand all Colombian jokes, because of the use of some words, I don't understand Mexican jokes either for the same reason... But, I understand English jokes without an issue...

I know, I need to spend more time with my people....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

slguy says on Jul 3, 2007, 10:20:

I'm fascinated that anyone would take offense at being called "gringo" in Colombia. Isn't it more important how the person intends the word, than how you interpret it? Almost always, when my colombian friends call me this, I know it's affectionate, sometimes teasing. The only time I was ever called this pejoratively was once, with too much rum in my system, I danced a little too close to mi amigo's novia. That earned me a "mira, gringo pendejo!". LOL And yes- he was sending a message, but not a threatening one.

Interesting, too, that people seek/avoid others based on nationality. Good people are good people, no? - does it matter their heritage?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

miamimike says on Jul 3, 2007, 10:24:

I avoid other American, when Traveling, I want to meet the natives, explore their culture ect. Doesn't matter if its SA, Europe, Far East ect. Why Travel 1000s of miles then head to a neighborhood like Zona Rosa to drink beer with Americans ?? Why leave the States? I've also found Meals, Hotel Prices ect alwaays higher in these Neighborhoods that cater to Americans. Each to his/her own,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

Robert Jorge says on Jul 3, 2007, 10:34:

The times I have been in Colombia, I didn't try to avoid any certain types of people. When I lived in Villavo, I think I saw a total of 3 north Americans. Two I didn't meet (most likely military spooks out dancing), and the third I was introduced to. His dad lived in New York, and his mother was Colombian, living in Villavo. So, I guess I hung exclusively with Colombians, because it would have been pretty lonely if I required other gringos to hang out with. But I would have been glad to hang out with another gringo ... there just weren't any.

I know it is beat to death, but what the hell ... I'll jump on too. Gringo is NOT derogatory. Gringo is not comparible to the horrible word n***er. To suggest that it is, is insulting, in my opinion, to north American blacks.

One thing I discovered while living in Colombia, was that Colombians are very discriptive and honest as to what they call somebody. If you are a fat white guy, they will probably call you gringo gordo, or something like that. My wife's cousin and best friend is a little darker than my wife is. Therefore, her nickname is negrita. At first, I felt uncomfortable and was shocked at all these terms and nicknames. But, I quickly realized that there is absolutely nothing offensive meant. It doesn't even occur to Colombians that the nicknames are offensive. I actually find that quite refreshing. It is certainly a nice, innocent change from the US's uptight, pc, looking for an excuse to be offended society.

--"I believe in making the world safe for our children. But not for our children's children, because I don't think that children should be having sex." - Jack Handy

slguy says on Jul 3, 2007, 10:56:

I forgot to mention, Analyzethis- the more I analyze your Colombia shirt, the better I like it! ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

analyzethis1 says on Jul 3, 2007, 13:48:

Word History: In Latin America the word gringo is an offensive term for a foreigner, particularly an American or English person. But the word existed in Spanish before this particular sense came into being. In fact, gringo may be an alteration of the word griego, the Spanish development of Latin Graecus, "Greek." Griego first meant "Greek, Grecian," as an adjective and "Greek, Greek language," as a noun. The saying "It's Greek to me" exists in Spanish, as it does in English, and helps us understand why griego came to mean "unintelligible language" and perhaps, by further extension of this idea, "stranger, that is, one who speaks a foreign language." The altered form gringo lost touch with Greek but has the senses "unintelligible language," "foreigner, especially an English person," and in Latin America, "North American or Britisher." Its first recorded English use (1849) is in John Woodhouse Audubon's Western Journal: "We were hooted and shouted at as we passed through, and called 'Gringoes.'"

Now that this term "gringo" is hashed out, and for the sake of my questions, please don't participate if you take any offense.

Thank you for sharing your reasons as to why or why not you hang around with people of the same ethnic background. The bottom line it seems that no matter who we are with, if we like their company, then naturally we like to be with them more regardless of their background. Humanity 101!

It's intriguing to meet people from different cultures and, eventually, you start missing your own (or people you grew up with.) Like what Kat has said, she wishes to have more Latin friends. With regards to my Colombian friends here in Canada, at first, they socialized with non-latinos/as because they wanted to learn English faster and learn the western customs. But after 9 years here, they now socialize with their own so they can feel just a tad bit closer to home.

Can I end this post now?! Let's MOVE ON to the next post, shall we? Thanks again!

There are two kinds of gratitude: The sudden kind we feel for what we receive, and the larger kind we feel for what we give. E.A. Robinson

bueno_pues says on Jul 3, 2007, 19:05:

Odio los gringos. Quiero matar todos de ellos. Que pena que ellos estan permitidos entrar el pais.

analyzethis1 says on Jul 3, 2007, 21:12:

Oh bueno_pues....you just had to end my post with a bang! I hope everyone here can hear your sarcasm.

There are two kinds of gratitude: The sudden kind we feel for what we receive, and the larger kind we feel for what we give. E.A. Robinson

goin_south says on Jul 3, 2007, 22:08:

maybe it was already said, but... when in Colombia, who is hard-pressed or excited, or desirous to meet up with so many other gringos? NO. You just left that back in the states. Not what you went to Colombia, or elsewhere, for. Some of us like what is 'different'. For others, that's scarey.

some see the war;
some see the peace.

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

miamimike says on Jul 3, 2007, 23:10:

"Some of us like what is 'different'. For others, that's scarey.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goin_South---that is the difference between a Traveler(explorer) and a Visitor,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

goin_south says on Jul 3, 2007, 23:50:

Miamimike.... I retroflect many times. On my first recent trip to Bogota... on a Sunday afternoon... in the north side...around the area of Hotel La Mansion, not far from the BodyTech Gym...(maybe there's more than one; I don't know).... but me and my gal go walking for blocks and blocks in the nearby neighborhoods, and in that area at that time... I'm guessing it is customary.... a guy in fatigues, army or police, in the middle of every block, or at the corners... Nice three-story apartments... condos, whatever. But, all those guys guys fashioning machine guns or 'automatics' (I'm no gun expert)....

Most people freak at the thought of it. But, when/if you understand a little about where you are at, then ..... Okay. Maybe I am/we are a little strange.... but, I feel completely at peace passing by those guys, and walking those blocks. I see it as ... that is why I feel comfortable. Maybe I am distracted by this lady hangning/clinging... jeje ... to my arms... but.... I don't think three times (maybe twice, but... no more!)....

My spanish is not good, but... (right, miguel?) but I make light of their presence, and make a gesture or two of cordiality, and go on my way and feel completely at peace. MY FRIENDS AND ASSOCIATES THINK I HAVE LOST MY MIND.

And, then... they remember... I'm not playing with a FULL DUCK!

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

Piapo says on Jul 4, 2007, 05:57:

I don't think in Colombia the word "gringo" or "negro" is denigrating. Actually I think the word "yankee" instead is used in Colombia to call a "bad" gringo, if you know what I mean...

rocinante says on Jul 4, 2007, 08:09:

You know I love the gringo threads!"To me it is offensive, and to the Colombians it is not . So who is right?" - phillyThe Colombians - you are a guest in their country right? They call everyone Mono, Blanco, Gordo, Flaco, Negro. On Factor X and other mainstream TV shows you will hear these types of terms - especially "mi negrito"o "mi banquito" - they are very color oriented! Like Kat says most of the times these are terms of endearment. It's not what you say it's how you say it, pal. But here we have yet another example of a some gringo coming to Colombia and trying to change or inject the culture with their own. When in Rome deal with the Romans.

Oh, and in Colombia you are considered a gringo if you European, Canadian, Australian etc.... If you are not from South America, India or China you're pretty much lumped into the gringo category. Of course the Europeans hate this and deny it to the bitter end.

Just for the record, just for the 100th time, and not for the Colombians who already know and the gringos living there (TomTom) who already know as well. Got two Swedes living near by. They are known as Mono and Gringo (one is really white and blond!) neither has ever stepped foot on US soil.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

rocinante says on Jul 4, 2007, 08:12:

To the thread - I don't really seek out anyone but I will try to avoid the Foreigners a bit. I left the US for Colombia to avoid many things US. But I do have two or three US friends in Co. I guess any quality person of interest that I would want to spend time with I would wish to do so in any location.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 09:07:

when you hear love ziiinnnnggingg through the words and piercing from the eyes of your colombianita, when she proclaims:
MI.... G.R.I.N.G.O!
How can one possibly be offended???

..... leavin louisiana in the broad day light

rocinante says on Jul 4, 2007, 09:18:

It's not what you say but how you say it. I will guess that people speaking to Philly are mostlikely using an offensive tone of voice. goin_south, I can relate to that!

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

Philly says on Jul 4, 2007, 13:48:

Finally, I have some people feeling me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man Tequila says on Jul 8, 2007, 10:27:

Sounds good, but keep an eye on your watch and wallet. ;)

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

podborski says on Jul 8, 2007, 11:37:

I get a kick out of being called 'maestro', it reminds of the Seinfeld episode.