Avianca - Domestic So Expensive?

platano says on Sep 16, 2005, 19:02:

Tone, this could be related to rising fuel prices... Gasoline and other fuels are running out. The world has probably reached "peak oil" and the downhill slide over the next 30 years is going to be rough. The best books on the subject that I know of are Richard Heinberg's The Party's Over, Jim Kunstler's The Long Emergency, and Colin Campbell's The Coming Oil Crisis.

Plátano

plátano

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cam0940 says on Sep 16, 2005, 19:51:

Avianca's Bogota to Cartagena fare just jumped 41% in the last 2 weeks as well.

Comparatively speaking, you're still getting over if you can get from ATL to Bogota for less than $202.

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ws244 says on Sep 16, 2005, 20:16:

gasoline Gas is not running out. No refineries have been built here in 30 years to keep up with the demand. Another reason China with their manufacturing appetite is now 3rd largest importer of oil after the states and japan. So next time one goes to Walmart (80% of their inventory is made in china,) remember their cheap prices are costing all of us more than the price of gas in the end.
Ca09 put your girlfriend to work on those tickets as she can get better prices down there than you here.

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platano says on Sep 16, 2005, 20:21:

ws244, some people at the Wall Street Journal are concerned... Drilling for Broke? Experts Debate 'Peak Oil' (Wall Street Journal, August 3, 2005)

Plátano, el bobo simplón
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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ws244 says on Sep 16, 2005, 20:36:

wall stret The whole eastern coast of Russia and siberia has hardly been touched and they are full of gas oil etc. The american oil companies are generating the highest revenues in the history of the industry.


The Arabs are swimming in oil and the money with it. One never hears of gasoline shortages except in the states and our social liberal Canadian friends to the north.

In the news one only hears of the arabs running out of oil in 30 years and never about venezuela, mexico, russia, etc. etc. This is all about politics, and capitalism ie: the stock market. (government sanctioned gambling- a few win and the rest of the american joes lose)

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toneloc24 says on Sep 16, 2005, 21:31:

Cam I fly non-revenue (miles, buddy passes, etc.) to Colombia. I pay the rack rate (mileage rate, etc.) plus taxes.

With Avianca, apparently both the rack rate and these additional Avianca surcharges are upping the fares. It seems like double charges. If you're raising the rack rates due to gas prices, then why the surcharges as well?

The ridiculous-ness of the situation is like flying from NYC to LAX in 2004 for $350. Now in 2005, it's $700. Because of gas prices alone? Does that make any sense?

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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platano says on Sep 16, 2005, 21:35:

Wow! Sounds like the $6.00 a gallon gas my sister-in-law.... saw in Atlanta right after the hurricane. Sounds like gouging.

Plátano, el bobo simplón
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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cam0940 says on Sep 16, 2005, 21:54:

Tone, I don't pretend to understand the economics of the airline industry. I do try to shop for the best rates available to me, but in terms of what's driving these prices... I really don't know.

I've never flown into JFK from LAX now that you mention it. I have flown into La Guardia on several occasions because it was always cheaper. Are you telling me that's a $700 ticket now? Because that's what it costs to Bogota. If I fly to Houston/Panama City/Cartagena, I can do it for about $740. Odd, isn't it?

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Rubiazo says on Sep 17, 2005, 00:19:

Last time I flew from NYC to LA it was $280 or so, all taxes in, round trip. That was in March of 2003.
My ticket down here was $560 all taxes in.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 17, 2005, 00:48:

I shoulda prefaced that NYC-LAX thing, with "For Example." It's not an actual case. I have no idea what the actual costs from NYC-LAX are/were. I live in Atlanta. My intent was to show how unjustifiable it would be for the price for that route to just double within one year, gas prices or not.

And Platano, I live in Atlanta. Haven't seen lines for gasoline like that since my father had to wait in one of those in the late '70s. And yes, there was a gas station charging $5.74/gallon for regular. That occurred on the Wed. or Thurs. after Hurricane Katrina hit. They dropped back down to and avg. of $3.29/gallon. Now they are around $2.59/gallon. Before the storm, about $2.49-$2.59/gallon was the avg. regular.

Either way, I can't believe that Avianca is doubling their fares because of gas. Like I stated, I think AeroRepublica will be getting a call from me. BOG-BAQ is only approx. 90 min flight.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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jack smith 2 says on Sep 17, 2005, 18:03:

wait until you get to Colombia to buy your domestic ticket....the price is HIGHER if you buy it in the USA......same thing when we to to San Andres Island....if they find out I am a GRINGO the price goes up!!!!!

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toneloc24 says on Sep 17, 2005, 21:25:

Jack The prices that I am referring to are listed on Avianca's website. I always go through the Colombian website.

Therefore, I don't think there is a gringo-specific discrimination at play at all. When I call them as well, the English version call center is located in Medellin. I get the same rates as their website.

Are you saying that if I were to walk-up to the Avianca counter on Thursday and purchase flights, it will be less expensive than their published rates?

By the way, I used a travel agent in Bogota one time. The price difference from website to travel agent was only about COP3.000.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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johnboy77 says on Sep 19, 2005, 14:28:

Avianca is noted for buyoing out its competition (ACES in 2003, then firing everyone and taking the flights away). They almost have a monopoly so they raise the price. I know a couple pilots here who got stranded in Miami (ACES pilots) when Avianca pulled a fast one. They didn't even get them tickets to come home.

I prefer Aero-República... not too much cheaper, but they always seem to be on time, which Avianca is not.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Sep 19, 2005, 14:37:

tone My experience is that Avianca tickets are much cheaper when bought in-country. You may be checking their website for prices but it's also possible that their website is giving you foreign purchase prices because of your IP address or something.

Anyway, one of the great things about Colombia is there's not that huge last minute markup that you find in the states. Same day tickets are often the same price as 21 day advance. Of course, there's also the risk of no seats being available.

I've flown both AR and Avianca and they're pretty comparable.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 19, 2005, 16:57:

Thx Mr H I'm gonna try the walk-up routine this wkd. I'll let you guys know how it plays out.

And when I gave the example before regarding the travel agency, I was located at a computer in Bogota, down the street from the agency. Therefore, the IP address would've been Colombian.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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caslug says on Sep 19, 2005, 17:21:

i paid walk up in cali under 7 days.. Cali to Med $178k peso ONE WAY! seems about right, it's about $80USD. That's OK for USA, maybe that's OK for COL.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Sep 19, 2005, 18:09:

Thanks I probably paid the unrestricted price. I just glanced at their website and noticed they have two other price levels (lower). Oh well, I just hope the agent was honest when I asked if there was a more economical option available for those days.



I suppose Avianca pays the same as everyone else for their planes and fuel and their insurance and financing costs are probably higher. Per unit labor costs, catering and other operating expenses ought to be less, but maybe all those employees and all that security evens things out when total labor is calculated.

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helen says on Sep 19, 2005, 18:47:

has there ever been a time where the prices for airine tickets bought in colomnia were more expensive for non residents like in argentina?

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cam0940 says on Sep 20, 2005, 15:52:

Hurricane Rita is trying to throw a monkey wrench in everything. I cannot believe this is happening. It's either try to risk skating in and out of Houston before the storm hits, or taking a very long, round about trip through Newark, arriving 22 hours later in Bogota with an attitude.

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toneloc24 says on Sep 28, 2005, 08:53:

My experience Ok so I did the walk-up routine. Asked specifically for "mas economico."

RT BOG-BAQ Fri-Sun COP628.000.
Online 3-7 days prior would have cost COP508.000.

Your experience may differ. But I'll never do that again.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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platano says on Oct 8, 2005, 21:48:

ws244 says "The Arabs are swimming in oil..." "Ghawar is the treasure of the Saudi treasure chest. It is the largest oil field in the world and has produced, in the past 50 years, about 55 billion barrels of oil, which amounts to more than half of Saudi production in that period. The field currently produces more than five million barrels a day, which is about half of the kingdom's output. If Ghawar is facing problems, then so is Saudi Arabia and, indeed, the entire world.

Simmons found that the Saudis are using increasingly large amounts of water to force oil out of Ghawar. Most of the wells are concentrated in the northern portion of the 174-mile-long field. That might seem like good news -- when the north runs low, the Saudis need only to drill wells in the south. But in fact it is bad news, Simmons concluded, because the southern portions of Ghawar are geologically more difficult to draw oil from. "Someday (and perhaps that day will be soon), the remarkably high well flow rates at Ghawar's northern end will fade, as reservoir pressures finally plummet," Simmons writes in his book. "Then, Saudi Arabian oil output will clearly have peaked. The death of this great king" -- meaning Ghawar -- "leaves no field of vaguely comparable stature in the line of succession. Twilight at Ghawar is fast approaching." He goes on: "The geological phenomena and natural driving forces that created the Saudi oil miracle are conspiring now in normal and predictable ways
to bring it to its conclusion, in a time frame potentially far shorter than officialdom would have us believe." Simmons concludes, "Saudi Arabia clearly seems to be nearing or at its peak output and cannot materially grow its oil production."

SOURCE: The Breaking Point // by Peter Maas // NY Times Magazine // August 21, 2005

If the world is fast approaching "peak oil," and some say it will arrive before the end of 2005, this is not good news for Colombia.

Plátano X
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

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viewpoint says on Oct 9, 2005, 05:13:

Everyone better stand back and take a close look to the USA as it is following a path of self destruction. This winter is going to bring the message home. The envirnomental types and tree huggers have brought this once great country to it's knees. Almost all of the gulf of mexico is off line both natural gas, oil and refiners. The USA has not one LNG terminal on the east coast or the west coast to receive shipments of LNG because of the opposition to building them. No refiners have been built since the 70s. No further drilling for naturual resources is being done due to the simple fact oil companies can make more return on their investment outside the USA with less hassle so why bother. We hear crys of taxing the oil companies for their windfall profits what complete bullshit. With every day companies and investors are moving their capital outside the USA for better returns. China and India is where it's happening and belive me they will change your standard of living for the worse while you are sleeping on yesterdays successes.

I laugh when I hear the opposition to drilling on Alaska's north slope at ANWAR as the climate is so severe that almost no one would live there. I know because I did live there. Only 2.5 months of the year (north slope) are without ice and snow. The US Naval Petroleum Reserve was discovered in the early 1900s not by drilling but because there was so much oil it was seeping to the surface forming ponds and lakes of oil. The Liberals of the east coast of the USA are going to be cold this winter but they brought it on to themselves. We have vast resources of oil and gas but no incentive to develope it.

The USA is facing a major crisis and it can't be fixed as if you started tomorrow it would take 10-20 years and hundreds of billion of dollars to fix at a time when health care costs alone exceed $350 to $500 per employee per month reason alone to ship those jobs offshore. We have elected a bunch of attorneys to run our country and look what it's brought us too. The USA has become just a socialist state while the communistic countries are becoming more capitalistic. I would rather have a good dictator than being fleeced by the system we have now.

Premium gasoline in Panama City just jumped .70 cents/gallon to $3.94 so quit crying about the bargain prices you have in the USA and get prepared for the next stop at $5.00 gallon at the pump.

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Hunter says on Oct 9, 2005, 05:48:

viewpoint What makes me most sick most of the unrealistic enviromentilits is that one of the cleanest forms of producing energy is constantly blocked, the western goverments will wake up soon and start to build more nuclear plants, but 30 plus years has been wasted.

Hunter

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viewpoint says on Oct 9, 2005, 06:00:

Hunter The sad thing about it is that China is becoming far more advanced than the USA in all of these technologies. They are building a country that is being run like a business. They are building new compact Nuclear plants using technology discarded by the USA fifty years ago. http://www.spacewar.com/2004/041005033617.qstnsmzb.html
China is building a compact nuclear plant the size of a small house and it can power 4500 homes and requires no onsite management and is completely failsafe to a nuclear accident. We on the other hand are sitting on our hands singing "not in our back yard" and going into darkness with our society and industries. All I hear now is about USA companies investing in factories in China or India and translated into reality that means JOBS lost and who can balme them as they want to survive and make a profit. Manufacturing in the USA equals going broke except for rare cases of technology.

I am convinced China will bring our USA auto industry to it's knees. They are ramping up production and exporting these vehicles years ahead of schedule. I took delivery of two of these Chinese vehicles one SUV and the other a diesel powered double cabin pickup here in Panama. They are no Toyota mechanically but cosmetcially they are the same for half the price. When you look closer these vehicles sell in China for 1/3 the price of a GM or Ford equivilent.

The encourging thing is that as we face these new problems people are asking questions of their government and demanding actions but the time lag is in decades for a solution. We as a people are not ready to account for our past sins.

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viewpoint says on Oct 9, 2005, 07:33:

Quit crying about higher priced airline tickets after the airlines in the USA have lost tens (probably hundreds) of billions of dollars flying people around for less than the cost of doing business. That party is over and higher fares are coming as the airlines deal with their overcapacity. When Delta filed for chapter 11 B/K a few weeks ago they had a negative net worth of 6 billion with a capital B. After 9/11 they were financially the strongest (financial statement) carrier other than Southwest who had (and still has) a market capitalization greater than the sum total market cap of all the other carriers combined. S/W is in for trouble too as their fuel hedges expire. Delta is moving capacity outside the USA to growing foreign markets like Asia.

Capital will find it's way to the markets or investments of greatest return. USA business will deploy their capital to where it can get the best return. They owe no obligation to create jobs and make investments in a country where they are litigated and regulated to death.

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scotty says on Oct 9, 2005, 14:06:

not only are their prices going up their service is still as bad as ever.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Crazy4Cali says on Oct 9, 2005, 19:06:

No Frills On the flights between Cali and Bogota, or between Bogota and any other city in Colombia, how many frills can you get? I mean, the plane is only in the air for about 30 minutes.

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Crazy4Cali says on Oct 9, 2005, 20:21:

Just kidding... I think the frills have more to do with the cost of changing the ticket then they do with getting your Colombiana drink in fine crsytal or a plastic cup.

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creamontop says on Oct 10, 2005, 12:29:

What to expect ? Can anybody just tell me what price tags i can expect ?

I'll be in Colombia end of February 2006.

I need several local flights.

1. Bogotà to Cali
2. Cali to Barranquilla.
3. Barranquilla to Bogotà (probably) or maybe I can catch my return flight from Cartagena which means taking a bus from BAQ to CTG.

I'm flying air Madrid from Barcelona or Madrid to Bogotà, for only 510 Euro (2 ways). Which I consider a bargain compared to the almost 1000 Euro offered by Aviancia for the same route.
So comparing both prices, hmmm... i do not believe it is full proof reasonable to claim a doulble price due to gaz prices, taxes.Maybe more to bad management or greed ?

yo me puse tengo un guayabo ahora, yo seguro hace cuando estoy en Colombia

yo me puse tengo un guayabo ahora, yo seguro hace cuando estoy en Colombia

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