Article on differing views of Ingrid Betancourt

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 19, 2004, 10:46:

ingrid I'm a strong supporter of Ms. Betancourt and have discussed this topic often enough both with Colombian friends and on different forums. I think that Colombians have been very ungenerous with her and judge her very harshly for some minor blunders in her political career. Personally I tend to think it's because even if she was born to the political elite and establishment, she's seen as an outsider because of her dual nationality and French upbringing. She does not cosset the ruling political class like Nohemí Sanin, for example. She's not the prototype of a female Colombian politician: well-behaved, well-coiffured, manicured, dressed figurehead, but a strong, independent, straight-forward, even a bit abrasive woman, who doesn't "fit in". The Colombian media has been trying for a long time to make her look like a fake, focusing on her less-well advised campaigns like distributing free condoms and such, trying to make her look bad and such as corrupt as many others she has been instrumental to expose.
I'm hoping for her prompt release, together with all the other detainees; and do believe she'll have a brilliant political career ahead of her, once released and hopingly, matured from her ordeal.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 19, 2004, 10:47:

the book Has anybody else here but me actually read the book?
Dd

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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SiV says on Mar 19, 2004, 10:58:

Betancourt Quite a good article. As for my opinion, well, I[ve not read the book and I don[t know that much about here, but she seems quite an admirable woman. However, I think her particular case has recieved a vastly disproportionate amount of press coverage. Of course I pray for her prompt release, but along with, not before or above the rest of the captives.
SiV

Stultórum númere infinitum est.

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Sam Salmon says on Mar 19, 2004, 17:49:

In my short time in Colombia I discussed the situation with many people and was surprised at the amount of ambivalence toward Betancourt.
Whatever her personal failings or attributes in the end she's just another kidnap victim was the attitude I encountered a lot.
Campaigns to free just 'celebrities' are from what I have seen doomed to failure because the problem of kidnapping is so widespread.
Thanks for posting the URL-I used to subscribe to the Economist but stopped because of their sneering ' I have money as my god' attitude.




'livin' la vida pesca'

' a la orden!'

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juanalejo says on Mar 19, 2004, 18:43:

I used to be a fan of Ingrid, as I saw in her a strong voice against the establishment, and this is always welcome by the younger generations of Colombian city dwellers. But her own actions that lead to her own kidnapping as well of the actions of her family, who have used her French citizenship as a tool, to secure her release not matter what, has completely drawn me away from her ideals. She is just one more of the establishment, her and her family know exactly what move to make on their own behalf, no matter how many police, military and civilians are suffering her own similar fate. I wish her well but it will take many years of hard convincing before I ever vote for her again.

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Mi_lukea says on Mar 1, 2005, 00:58:

Until Death Do Us Part HI Desi!

That's the title of Ingrid's book in Australia. Though I think you know it as 'A Rage In My Heart'.

Yes, I have read it.

I am a HUGE admirer of Ingrid Betancourt and when I arrive into Colombia this April I hope to do a week's work experience in her mother, Yolanda's refuge for street children.

I want to work in grassroots level conflict resolution in Colombia and I believe that community development projects are the most effectual.

I found her book, amazing! I can't wait for her release and the sequel.

Suerte,

mishi

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dwmte says on Mar 1, 2005, 03:58:

hello, mishi... i'm curious, is ingrid writing from her 'place' in captivity?

i was living in llano grande when she was sequestered...or more specifically, managed to get herself sequestered.

wish her luck.

dw

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dariaj says on Mar 1, 2005, 04:19:

Confused.... I've read Ingrid Betancout's book and have to admit by the end of it I wasn't sure if she was good for Colombia or not. It was written in a rather dramatic and emotinal way and, at times, I thought it rambled on a bit too much about her own personal situation. I felt her methods were perhaps a bit naive but good on her for doing something. There's no doubt in my mind that she is a very brave, driven woman who passionately stands up for what she believes in. I know so little about the complex social and political issues affecting Colombia that in some ways I feel I shouldn't even comment but I'm trying to read as much as I can to get a better idea.
I haven't actually even made it over to Colombia yet due to a few recent hiccups in my travel plans but it will happen sooner rather than later. In the meantime can anyone suggest any more quality reading about Ingrid Betancourt or Colombia in general. Thanks

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Neonovo says on Mar 1, 2005, 11:04:

Additional reading was suggested.... Additional reading was suggested under a previous post entitled Roots of Violence in Colombia.

Paz

Neonovo

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ColombianoX says on Mar 1, 2005, 11:28:

What really pisses me off about Ingrid's family (her husband and mother) is that they're always criticizing and complaining about President Uribe and the colombian government over Ingrid's kidnapping. They need to get it in their heads that it's the FARC who are responsible for her kidnapping, not the government!!

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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dwmte says on Mar 1, 2005, 12:23:

it's really not directly the farc, but ingrid who bears the responsibility. it was she who so foolishly went out into eastern antioquia, unprotected--regardless her altruistic intentions--and got her self into this delima.

my heart goes out to the lady and i hope there is a resolution sooner than later for her predicament. i think, from the things i've read over the years, she is an honest and dedicated woman. maybe a little over the edge (to say the least) in her enthusiasm, but surely, a goodl woman and a real devoted colombian.

i'm a little saddened that many have commented here, while she is in the grip of these criminals, that they have lost confidence in her or that they wouldn't vote for her again, etc. wrong time for these comments. let's secure this valient woman's freedom before we criticize or castigate her. she did what she did for colombia and colombians.

voice sided opinions about her, after we gain her freedom.

dwmte

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Mr. Hollywood says on Mar 1, 2005, 13:48:

Not the FARC's fault? DWMTE, how in the heck can you suggest that the FARC doesn't bear responsibility? I know what you mean about Ingrid being foolish, but, really, THEY are the ones who took her captive and have been holding her ever since. They could let her and all the other hostages free tomorrow, but every day they make the choice not to.

It really is time that the world understands where the guilt and blame should lie.

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ARMacleod says on Mar 1, 2005, 14:00:

Gracias dwmte for the wisdom of the words Being a relative newcomer to things Colombian and knowing only that which I have picked up on PBH I see the lady to be guilty of nothing more than 'amore patrice'

I heartily agree with 'dwmte' that all should suspend perhaps their negative opinions until she is free to defend herself again.

I suspect that any subversives eavesdropping this site would gain some comfort from some of the remarks. That could of course have unfortunate consequences in the long run.

Pax vobiscum.

The brain is like a parachute, it only functions correctly when it is open. Pax vobiscum.

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dwmte says on Mar 1, 2005, 14:13:

i know where you're comin from, hollywood... and it's not that i am not sympathetic to this posture. it's that this lady took it upon herself to go out, basically alone, into the arms--if you will--of the farc and got her sweet little behind sequestered. had she stayed in medellin and remained a part of the negotiating body of the govt. there's a high probability she would be still a part of government, and not a prisoner of the farc.

i dont' remember the name of the other lady who was kidnapped right in her doctor's office in poblado some years back. the bad guys went right in to the office and kidnapped her.

well, i still hope for ingrid's release before people start or continue dressing her down.

peace..
dw

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platano says on Mar 5, 2005, 21:53:

Ingrid had a right to campaign in ALL of Colombia I have read Ingrid's book, and I support Ingrid. She didn't go alone. She was campaigning for political office to represent all the people of Colombia and she had promised the people of rural Colombia that she would not abandon them.

Every Colombian citizen has a right to travel on public roads anywhere inside Colombia. Saying Ingrid did something wrong or stupid (como decir que se dio papaya) is to blame the victim. She did nothing wrong! She wasn't a combatant on either side. The FARC is violating international law to hold her because she was a noncombatant.

Peace out!

Colombia es la berraquera!

plátano

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Sam Salmon says on Mar 5, 2005, 22:29:

Grow Up!!!! "Every Colombian citizen has a right to travel on public roads anywhere inside Colombia."
In fact the Colombian Govt is still unable to secure every road in the country and there is no such right-are you drunk?
Perhaps you like to share the article in the Colombian Constitution that proves your ridiculous assertion.

"She did nothing wrong! She wasn't a combatant on either side. The FARC is violating international law to hold her because she was a noncombatant."
She ignored the best advice the Govt, the Army and her own personal advisers could give her-is that smart?
It could be argued that she is even more culpable than the 3,000 other innocents who are being held-she had a choice but was too
full of herself to recognise that not everyone thinks as she does.

Tell me something-how old are you?
Have you ever lived in cities/countries where crime is rampant?
If so do you accept that in such places one has to be responsible for one's own actions?
That is exactly the situation Betancourt found herself in and she refuse to act in a responsible manner-thus her present situation.
Her dreams lie in ashes and her life is broken.













' a la orden!'

platano says on Mar 5, 2005, 22:40:

Right to travel within Colombian territory is guaranteed by law Pacto de Unión, 1861 Reconocimiento por parte del gobierno general de la Unión de los derechos y garantías individuales, colectivas y sociales de la propiedad; libertad; seguridad; libertad de viajar por todo territorio; libertad de asociarse sin armas; igualdad de derechos y obligaciones; libertad de expresar su pensamiento; inmunidad del domicilio; libertad de trabajo.

If you understand Spanish you can see that freedom to travel throughout the country was guaranteed in 1861: "libertad de viajar por todo territorio"

By the way, I am not drunk. And I will not cast aspersions on you or your person.

Peace out! Colombia es la berraquera!

plátano

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platano says on Mar 5, 2005, 22:46:

Revolutionaries, in my experience, cared about the law OK, I was kidnapped by ELN and they were very concerned about the Geneva Conventions regarding treatment of prisoners of war, at least the front that got me. (I don't want to give details.) And expressly because of that concern they did not mistreat me. So, I will not generalize that all revolutionaries are disrespectful of interational law. It was not my personal experience. I realize others have not been as fortunate.

Peace out! Colombia es la berraquera!

plátano

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platano says on Mar 5, 2005, 22:55:

1991 Constitution Also Guarantees Right of Free Travel Libertad de locomoción: toda persona puede desplazarse a donde quiera según su voluntad dentro del territorio. --Constitución política de Colombia, 1991

Again almost the same wording as 1861, "dentro del territorio". That means every Colombia citizen by law has the legal right to "desplazarse a donde quiera" go wherever they please.

Have you read the Colombian Constitution? It is a dynamite document!

Peace out! Colombia es la berraquera!

plátano

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Sam Salmon says on Mar 5, 2005, 22:56:

Mas LOL!!! "If you understand Spanish you can see that freedom to travel throughout the country was guaranteed in 1861: "libertad de viajar por todo territorio""
That 'assurance' is good as long as the Govt has the means to guarantee the free passage of citizens.
In fact in the 140+ years since that was written there has been no such practical means.
Clinging to dusty documents is the refuge of the foolish and the pastime of the damned.
Few Colombians-schooled as they in the real world-harbour any such illusions.
The next time you see some broken eyed Campesina hawking BonIce in traffic in Bogotá why don't you ask her about the Constitution of 1861?









' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

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platano says on Mar 5, 2005, 23:03:

Many Colombians Have Died Defending the Constitution The Constitution of 1991 was an advance. I never said Colombia was perfect and have attended enough funerals in Colombia to know its reality. But you asked for the document for what you called my "ridculous assertion" and I did. Punto. A la orden.

Peace out! Colombia es la berraquera!

plátano

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dwmte says on Mar 6, 2005, 04:09:

platano... your points that it is by legal right that one is permitted to go about their ways in what ever part of colombia is true....albiet, not a reality. legal yes, possible, no.

too, i don't know when the last time you were at penol, but the farc have taken up haven there over 5 or 6 years ago and it is not a safe place to go enjoy oneself. they tore down the pay booth and are all about the area now. i've been out there since then, but i'm a seasoned habitant of rural colombia and have a bit of a clue how to avoid some of the more common problems. i would never recomment that to the new, visiting foreigner, any more than i would recommend that they go alone on a friday or saturday to party in the bars and clubs in maranilla, just because maranilla is fantastic. fantastic and fun yes, dangerous, unbelievably so. if you're going with friends who are in the know there, fine. alone, it's suicide. si o no?

and as for ingrid. she was up to more than campaigning in eastern antioquia. i think she felt that she could convince the armed insurgents of a better way all by herself. didn't work. i pray for her ongoing safety.

dw.

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platano says on Mar 6, 2005, 12:21:

Thanks for the update. I am obviously not up to date. Yes, I know all too well the risks of travelling to some parts of Colombia. My original point was that Ingrid, in her capacity as someone seeking to represent ALL of Colombia, had a legal right (maybe she felt it as a duty?) to travel to ALL of Colombia.

I left Colombia five years ago "amenazado" so I appreciate your update on El Peñol although it makes me sad.

I'm also sorry to hear that going to Maranilla is suicide. Guess my guardian angels were working overtime when I walked that area at night.

Thanks for your concern for Ingrid. I think the point you make is important. She was on a mission to convince the armed insurgents that more violence is not the way out of 50 (almost 60 now since "El Bogotazo") years of civil conflict. Violence only leads to desire for revenge, hatred, and more violence. Again, thanks for your concern for Ingrid (and for all the others who have been victims of violence).

plátano

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