Are Colombians really "Catholic"

Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 20:49:

Id say people in urban areas are a little bit more secular and liberal than the rest of the population more so if theyre well educated. However, I do believe values and morals are dictated by the church. If you visit smaller cities and rural towns youll notice people are actually EXTREMELY catholic and the local priest has the right to meddle in private issues. Generally Colombians are quite religious, and the church still plays a role in politics and nobody seems to question that, i think that says a lot. You wont find the same fundamentalism you find in American Christian associations or any of that though...Id like to say I dont believe a country is more advanced when it abandons its ties with religion, and one more thing, Spain -and Italy- are very religious when compared to the UK or France.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 20:57:

Most of the Colombians I know are NOT practicing Catholics and exactly what I mean by that is that they do not attend Mass regularly every Sunday-this is mandatory as/for a Catholic to be in Good Standing and remain in good standing. How often are the Sacrements recieved? Catholics are requiered to attend Mass Every Sunday, not once a month. The exception to this is they are sick and physically unable to attend Mass and are considered Shut-Ins. They can make a phone call to the rectory and Holy Communion can be sent out(think like pizza hut or chinese take out jaja)should they wish to fulfill their Easter Duty and recieve communion. Adultery is not permitted in the Catholic Faith either, yet it is widespread in Colombia. Could you say many Colombians are Christians??--Yes. Many beleive in God as a Surpreme Being. Some things like the above cannot be stretched to fit the person's idea of what a Catholic in good standing is meant to be for their own convenience. And all the above is OK-only they are not Catholics in good standing.And this is not new or a change, been this way for decades, even centuries.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

adrimm says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:02:

Probably comparable to Portugal In most aspects. The urban/rural split and balancing of "morals" with church doctrine.

Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:02:

Oh well Miamimike, there is a very popular saying here "El que peca y resa empata". Religion, especially catholicism, has always advocated double standards and, to a certain extent, hypocresy. I suppose people take from religion what they feel is convenient, rather than the entire doctrine. But that doesnt mean the role of the catholic church as mass congregating isntitution is any less important.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:11:

I am a Roman Catholic who (ahem) who has strayed from the Flock. God have mercy on my Damned Soul! I fell out of Favor after I got divorced in 1991. As a Divorced Catholic I am unable to recieve the Sacrements such as Communion. Aspects as this I am not in agreement with as many others aren't either.Will the Church change radically? I doubt it with a new Pope conservative as Ratzinger.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:17:

Oh you Phillistine!!!!
I dont know much about Catholicism, but I read Ratzinger is only a transtition pope just to make the Opus Dei happy. I dont think he´ll live long though. You might have a chance to reintegrate hahaha.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

adrimm says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:24:

Poo poo Miamimike , I'd say 25% of the congregation at the church my mother goes to are divorced, half of 'em remarried at city hall. Her parish priest is a former anglican with a wife and kids.

Ratzy is just placeholder, if the next guy doesn't start looking more progressive, the church will split.

Yes miamimike you will surely burn in eternal hell.

Rubiazo says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:26:

see what Miamimike is talking about is what I'm talking about. Sunday mass attendance is a great example, does anybody have any idea what mass attendance is like in Colombia, or other important observances?

miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:29:

The Cuban Priest who married us offered to Dissolve the Marriage -annulement if I so desired but I passed. Probably still could but it really doesn't change me as a person. I have questions concerning teachings of the Church, as many Contemporary Catholics do. El Papa Ratzinger probably wouldn't give me the answers I would like to hear. See if two catholics get married in the other person's country in a civil ceremony and the Marriage falls apart and the couple divorces the Church is not the wiser.You are still a Good Guy in their eyes! Haha

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:34:

Oh Mike, you are such a catholic!!!!
PS: You do belong to that side of the force ;)

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

santiBOG says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:37:

even if people go to mass... you know they take what they want from the catholic church and just ignore the rest. People adjust the rules of the church to their own needs and circumstances. As an example, I would say that nearly all of the unmarried young girls and women that regularly attend church have pre-marital sexual relations (if they have a partner, of course). They openly violate the comandments. Still, they'll want to get married in a Catholic ceremony wearing white. In other words, going to church, more than a religious tradition, is sometimes a social thing, it's what 'everybody does', even if you don't agree with the church 100%.

BTW, I don't go to church.

miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:40:

Adrimm I have a Hard Row to Hoe.... "Yes miamimike you will surely burn in eternal hell". I am aware of that; probably my place in the hereafter and in the Oven below has been reserved in the Hottest area of Hell with the largest coalpile. Damned to shovel in the hereafter for all eternity! Thats why I grew the Horns while I'm here on earth(Tengo Cuernos jaja)jajaja

I liked the last Pope but not many changes in Doctrine out of him either. Interesting to see what % of US Catholics practice birth control? I mean if there aren't humongous numbers, there would be these 10 Kid Families like when I was growing up-some mothers in my neighborhood I cannot ever remember seeing them in a non-pregnant condition for 15-20 years.I mean they Permently had a BUN in the Oven.Lived like really poor folks but the Church was happy:)

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

b bruce says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:51:

How does Brazil benefit from being Anti-Christ? Isn't this the country where the police force in San Paulo were mass murdering homeless kids because they were becoming a problem! Unless of course they were all sacrificed to some godhead from an unknown religion. Perhaps you are suggesting no religion is the answer to population control. You may have something there! On the up side. I didn't qualify to become a Catholic. They kicked my application back when they found out I was a poor white boy and couldn't afford the weekly payments!

adrimm says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:53:

Yes That one step in itself would satisfy a generation of people. I'd say the majority of Catholics in developing and developed areas practice birth control. In all my life I've only met one family (Irish) with 8 kids (who were my age).

adrimm says on Jun 22, 2005, 21:58:

No sense b bruce so have a religion that has no trouble with pop control (Protestant Christians, Jewish, etc ). Hell I'm 1/2 Anglican so I guess I'm 1/2 there.

Rubiazo says on Jun 22, 2005, 22:02:

B bruce It benefits because they give free condoms to whoever wants them no matter what, no questions asked. This is why they DONT have a huge STD problem anymore, due to the condoms being given out despite the whining the Church did about it (AND the US government too BTW!)

I dont think that was a police force you're talking about. That was a vigilante mob IIRC. I don't know if anybody ever was ever to check the religions of the members of the crazed and armed mob.

miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 22:13:

Those Irish Families were Sex Addicts and they were the ones I had in mind when I said some Moms I knew permently had a Bun in the Oven. One Irish family in my school had like 13 kids. It was a trip to go and play in their house.Usually at least two or three of the Kids were Punching the crap out of each other for wearing the others' underwear or Socks. Or one of the Kids was swinging across the Living room on a Large Old Chandelier(wonder their wasn't an electrical fire)On Thanksgiving Day there wasn't money to buy 2-3 Turkeys so the Mom would bake all the Kids a Little Turkey made out of Hamburger(mixed with breadcrumbs of course to stretch the meat)What this Father was thinking making all these Babies he couldn't afford to properly raise I don't know, but someone should have put his Pecker(in the erect form) and placed it at the bottom of an Opened Window then slammed the Window on it so he would be unable to procreate anymore. What he did to his Poor Wife over 20 years(maintaining her in a pregnant state)was Criminal. Kids were always wanting also for food, clothes ect.THe Church was Happy though-they(church) didn't foot the food, clothing or gas bill either!(one of the Older Sons I was Buddies with related to me later in life that his old man was such a Sex Addict he would come home from the nearby factory at Noon and Bang the Mom at luchtime and then again every night so this poor lady was getting banged 24/7 x365 days except when she was in the hospital having, yep,you guessed it, another baby.Well one good thing, the family was so big they always had plenty of Babysitters for the young ones--but the Church was Happy)

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

Cerealkiller says on Jun 22, 2005, 22:26:

Oh wait till you hear about paisa families with 20 kids...not that it happens now i think, but if im not mistaken that was sort of like the rule back in the days.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

utopiacowboy says on Jun 22, 2005, 22:30:

My wife and her entire family are devout Catholics. So it was a good thing that I am also Catholic. As far as I can tell church attendance in Colombia is very high. At least the churches are very crowded when we go to Mass. Do we blindly follow the Pope? No, but why throw the baby out with the bath water?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 22:33:

20 Kids...Give me a break..Can you imagine the Poor Woman's internal organs. She must have been wide open down below like a trucking bay after passing 20 Kids. Wow, talk about major pain and trauma.You only have to witness one live birth to realize what pain a woman goes through during childbirth. Not Easy!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

adrimm says on Jun 22, 2005, 22:41:

My Irish family Were quite nice. Dad was an architect. Very interesting, becuase aside from having a huge family they were quite normal (Architect salary must be ok -they lived comfortably lower-mid, middle class - 10 person family).

MiamiM, while I'd be the last person to have 20 kids, I think the stress on the body is a hard thing to call. Growing up, my mother knew a woman in her homevillage who had 24 (19 survived), and she lived happily to 101 .

Also after having several, labour is supposed to be very short. A friend of mine was in labour for only 1 hr on her 3rd kid.

miamimike says on Jun 22, 2005, 23:16:

I suppose the Body is so acclimated to the Birthing process after 3-4 you could put it on Auto-Pilot and pop the babies out.The is only a certain amount of elasticity in the body though. The Birth I witnessed had the Baby coming out with the Umbilical Cord wrapped around the Infant's Neck shutting off Oxygen as it exited the Woman so the staff was in for a few exciting moments as the baby turned cyanotic blue from lack of Oxygen.The Doc did an Episotomy also so a lot of Blood. Very traumatic moment and birth! PS-on the large Irish family I wrote about-I don't ever think the Pop gave the Mom much of a chance to recuperate from the last birth maybe only a few days before.With her being in a perpetual Pregant state he couldn't have and that is not good by any standard.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

kernow62 says on Jun 23, 2005, 04:09:

Adrimm, you want to see huge families... there are a group called travelers. They are sort of a cross between gypsies and Irish. They shun living in towns and use little caravans nowadays, they are folks you don't mess with, but have very large close families. Of the families at one small camp surveyed, 3 women had given birth over 20 times, it is unusual to find families with less than 6 or 7 children which means the woman actuall gave birth perhaps 9 times as they have a very high infant mortality rate. The fertility rate for women over 40 is 10.4 children per woman.

A great book on the subject is "The Irish Tinkers" The urbanization of an itinerant people. by George Gmelch ISBN 0-88133-158-9

They were also portrayed in the movie "Snatch", Brad Pitt played one of the Tinker men ... if all Tinker men all look like Mr. Pitt that is perhaps reason for their high birth rate. ;-)

Colombiche says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:09:

Religious? Colombians were very Catholic in the past.

I am from a huge, traditional Antioqueño family. My mother is the youngest of 15. My father is the second youngest of 17. In my father's family all 17 of them lived. In my mom's family, 3 of them died when they were babies but 12 survived. One of my maternal grandmother's sisters had 20 kids. Yes 20. My mother's oldest sister is 30 years older than my mom, I have cousins who are in their 60's. My mother was the family rebel because she married when she was 33 and had me at the age of 34. By the way, my grandparents were city dwellers, they were not even rural folk. I imagine out in the country side people might have had more children than my grandmas.

There is nothing in this world that gives me more satisfaction than to be free of the shackles that my female ancestors had to carry all their lives. Back in those days, these women just had to keep having as many children as they could have, because according to the roman catholic religion, the purpose of marriage was "to create more souls to populate the heavens". These are my mother's words. Back in those days, you couldn't even fathom the thought of birth control. Mass manufacturing of children was a woman's fate. Poor grandma, couldn't bend down to wash a diaper because grandpa would creep up from behind and get her in trouble again. The day I decide to have children, it will be my choice and I will have only as many as I want.

My parents are so Catholic that they baptized me when I was 2 hours old just in case I would die (they didn't want me spending eternity in Limbo). As I child I had to go to mass almost everyday with my aunts, sometimes more than once because my old aunts decided that they wanted to go at different times (and guess who had to come with them). I am truly all massed out, communioned out, rosaried out. I can't even stand the thought of having to go to another mass, I already did enough of that as a poor helpless kid. I already prayed more than 50000 rosaries, attended a school with nuns... have mercy on me.

As you can see my paisa upbringing was extremely Catholic. I just turned 27, so it is not like we are talking ancient colombian history here!!!

Today, I believe in being kind to all humans, all lifeforms. I believe what goes around comes around. I believe in love, loyalty, faith and freedom. I don't think that I have to go to a physical building to get in touch with the higher power, (because that higher power is already inside all of us) nor do I believe in intermediaries (why would I tell my sins to a priest?). These days I am finding more spiritual solace in the book or Buddha, funny enough a lot of Buddha's parables are total parallels of those in the bible. The only difference is that Buddhism is more of a philosophy than an actual religion. I think a lot of colombians feel the same way I do.

Sure, Catholic churches in Colombia still get packed. The question is how many of the people attending the mass actually abide by ALL the rules and commandments of Catholicm? Most people just accommodate the commandments to suit their needs and circumstances. It is almost like a pick 'n choose to create your own combo.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

platano says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:26:

My cousin from Manizales is a Roman Catholic nun.... She works with Las Hermanas de San Jose in Cali. I have had long talks with her about Catholicism. We talked at depth about the doctrine of transubstantiation. During the mass transubstantiation happens and she was very emphatic that transubstantiation is NOT SYMBOLIC-- IT IS LITERAL. In order words the wine literally becomes the blood of Christ, the bread literally becomes the body of Christ. She insisted that transubstatiation is a central point of Catholic doctrine (what is more central than Christ's sacrifice?) and if you don't believe in LITERAL transubstantiation you are not of the Roman Catholic faith.

Yet when I spoke to Colombian Catholics about transubstantiation not one of them believed that during mass they were engaging in cannibalism by eating human flesh. So I don't believe most Colombians are really Catholic. Nuns and priests obviously are because they understand the cannibalistic nature of their faith.

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

Cerealkiller says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:29:

Miami Mike that is just scary, thats it. No kids for me, your elightening and very graphic description just gave me the creeps. I didnt like kids anyway... :P

See? see? I was right? Thanks Colombiche, for a second I thought It wasnt Paisa families but from other parts of the country who had a lot of children.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

Colombiche says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:37:

Cereal Killer "For a second I thought It wasnt Paisa families but from other parts of the country who had a lot of children."

You kidding? My family was 3 dirty diapers short of a Guiness World Record.

Platano: You cousing is a nun in Manizales? She could have been one of my teachers then!! What convent was she part of? Las Rosaristas, La Visitacion, Ravasco? Las Carmelitas Descalzas?

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Colombiche says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:37:

I meant cousin, not cousing.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

platano says on Jun 23, 2005, 07:41:

Colombiche, She is from Manizales but she is not in a convent in Manizales. She is a nurse and works with Las Hermanas de San Jose, a convent in Cali (Avenida Roosevelt).

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 09:21:

I know that convent, platano it's just across the street from my inlaw's. On a certain day of the week (Thursday, if I'm not wrong) there's some big hullabaloo there and the traffic on the Roosevelt is near to impossible. The sidewalk is crowded with booths and stands selling religious knicknacks, rosaries, images of the saints and such.

I'd say Colombia is a deeply devout Catholic country, "El pais del Sagrado Corazón". Not everybody is a church-goer, however, my late mother-in-law didn't like priests and did her praying at home, lighting a candle to Virgin Mary and the Saints at times of ill health or misfortune of family members.

Some of my friends are true believers, go the Mass and retiros espirituales, participate in all church activities and send their children to religious schools. Some others are just nominally catholic, but I have never heard anybody saying that they are not catholic or don't believe in God.

I myself am not much of anything, not even a convinced pagan.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

miamimike says on Jun 23, 2005, 10:23:

CerealKiller---Don't let my description deter you.. but those types of births occur..The little boy turned out OK as I remember afterwards. That case was one in 1000's.You know in the US, Canada and probably the rest of the world it is so easy to have children and no requierments as far as Parenting. Here in the US its easier to have Kids then get a Florida Driver's license. Many Young To-be parents have no clue as to what is down the road physically, emotionally, financially. Guess its one one of the reasons there is so much child abuse in the court systems here.Many having Babies when in reality they are still Babies themselves, relatively speaking.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.,

elmodefoque says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:17:

I don’t have a spiritual bone in my body, neither does most of my family in Colombia and my kids here (USA) but we do practices a religion called, “MODEFOQUE! YOU COULD PRAY ALL YOU WANT, BUT IF YOU DON’T GET YOUR ASS OUTTA BED AND OFF TO WORK, YOU GONNA STARVE�
I know, is got a long name but is one of the most popular religions in the planet. This religion has fed and sheltered me for many, many years, almost 50 to be exact.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

Colombiche says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:23:

Elmo Yeah, I practice that religion of yours too.

You know, I think deep down you are quite the philosopher. You just try to hide it.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

elmodefoque says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:35:

I lot of us (Modedofoque! You could pray........) followers here in NYC, meet in the subway, in the morning at 8 am and then in the afternoon at 5 pm. We don’t say much to each other but we are grateful to be part of this religion. Weekends, we just stay home fornicate and get drunk until the wee hours.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:40:

I called myself "Catholic" I believe in God, Virgen mary, and all the saints,and everybody in the bible, if that is being catholic, although last time I went to church was when I christened my daughter, that was 12 years ago (oops that long). The thing is I don't trust catholics priests and they are the ones making me loose faith in the Catholic religion. I teach my kids to believe in God, I think is important that they believe in something, but I haven't introducce them to any specific Religion. I don't know if this is good or bad. :-(.
I think too that the Catholic church should move more into the 21th century, circumtances change, people change, and I think they should get more modernized toward the young Catholics.

engage brain before opening mouth

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:48:

sorry last time I went to church it was 5 years ago, I took my kids to the church for the first time (catholic church)after that they didnt'want to come back anymore , I think they found it too boring.

engage brain before opening mouth

elmodefoque says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:52:

kat,eres muy bonita, pero kat,
eres muy bonita,
pero religiosa,
engañas a los hombres...

me encataria bailar eso contigo

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:54:

solo con mentiras con mentiras mentirosa, yo tambien me se esa cancion. ;-)

engage brain before opening mouth

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:54:

eres muy bonita pero mentirosa, no religiosa, o eso era lo que querias decir?

engage brain before opening mouth

elmodefoque says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:58:

como buena costeña me imagino que bailas bien chevere, verdad?

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 11:59:

como un trompo jejeje ;-)

engage brain before opening mouth

elmodefoque says on Jun 23, 2005, 12:01:

y yo bailo como un corroncho

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 12:04:

BTW Elmo you breaking the 10 COMMANDMENT, go and check what it is ;-)

engage brain before opening mouth

elmodefoque says on Jun 23, 2005, 12:16:

There’s not one commandment I have not broken, except for�Thou shall not kill!" not yet anyway. Wait, I did kill a lotta birds and lobitos, but that's because I was hungry. The "adultery" thing, I got a real problem with that one and "lying" forggetaboutit.

I gotta go home, chaooo

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

Desideria (Moderator) says on Jun 23, 2005, 12:56:

priests "I have no quarrel with this Nazarene, it's only with these priests" (Morgaine LeFay)
I agree, I see most of the priests as interfering old man with bad breath who think that they have a right to control people's lives.
I see nothing divine with religions or churches, only a very basic human need to take solace in something supernatural when deeply troubled by the toils of life itself.

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

dwmte says on Jun 23, 2005, 13:52:

colombiche... my wife's family is deeply 'catholic' mass many times a day, rosario daily...or more. recitations and prayers all the time. my lovely daughter is chained to it...it does no harm. in fact it tempers her. i'm catholic, too, and we compliment each other. i don't do the rosarios but i do all communions (hear me miami mike) no one can keep you from the divine feast/supper...la ultima sena. if our beloved LORD, had intended such rubbish, HE would have spelled it out. as it was, HE provided this penitential feast for 'those most in need of HIS mercy...' si o no?

my wife will tell me she wont take communion because she hasn't gone to confession. i try to remind her that GOD already knows the content of her heart inside out and that the best she can do is simply point out to our common FATHER, that she is aware of her failings and in need of GRACE AND GUIDANCE. is that not enough? is that not the underpinning of redemption? to recognize and know and confess to GOD. for this we do not need a priest. i might point out that for anyone who has enjoyed a divine gracefilled relationship with a priest, they will have no doubts as to it's efficacy. those unfamiliar with the depth of this, will have no proximity to their priest or the realities behind confession.

platano....without transubstantiation (sp) there is no communion. we, the priest and the HOLY WILL OF GOD are the ingredients of this magical transformation of 'base metal into gold'. we must believe that it is really happening to know it's transmuted GLORY. blessed is he who without seeing, believes...

oh, mike...heh, if our beloved GOD reserved space in some 'hell' or purgatory for petty offences, i'm sure we'ld find each other's company the only company we had. however, GOD deals with issues in TRUTH and REALITY, not through the anger and opinions--not to mention sins--of the church. trust your heart to GOD. HE created it, he knows how to heal and cherish it. my brother always reminds me that the power that made the body, heals the body.

peace,

douglas

utopiacowboy says on Jun 23, 2005, 14:09:

My wife and I enjoy going to church together. We hold hands and sit real close to each other and it's a nice way of sharing a common tradition and heritage.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

kernow62 says on Jun 23, 2005, 18:05:

"Isn't that special." sayeth the churchlady.

utopiacowboy says on Jun 23, 2005, 22:00:

Of course at the same time, she's wearing a skirt so short, she has to use a hymnal to cover herself up with along with a low-cut blouse. I always tell her, I'm sure all the men are going to be praising the Lord after they get an eyeful of you. Praise Jesus, check out the ass on her! And did you see those tits? Amen, brother!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

adrimm says on Jun 23, 2005, 22:01:

So She's reading over your shoulder now.....

utopiacowboy says on Jun 23, 2005, 22:08:

She can't speak or read English - I figure I've got at least 10 years ahead of me being able to say anything. Besides it's not as though I don't actually tell her all that anyway - except in Spanish. She just laughs.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Veronica22 says on Jun 24, 2005, 02:52:

well my cousin belongs to a strict family (or at least they pretend to be) but she is getting sterilized so she cant have any more kids!!!

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 24, 2005, 06:53:

That one of the thing, when you say "your are Catholic", people expect you to behave in certain way, like a little girl of a prairie.

engage brain before opening mouth

dwmte says on Jun 25, 2005, 10:26:

kat... "...like a little girl of a prarie?"

utopiacowboy says on Jun 25, 2005, 22:01:

Yeah, DW, Kat's the girl that lives in the Little House on the Colombian Prairie. I'm surprised that you haven't heard of it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

dwmte says on Jun 26, 2005, 08:40:

er....... which prarie was that? i can picture little joe there, because he was such a coke head. even when he was making all those 'just say no to drugs' commercials, come fridays, you'ld see him at the malibu adobe with some young sweetie, high, out of his head. pity.

dw

kat1 (Moderator) says on Jun 26, 2005, 13:00:

How you know that UC ;-) surp How do you know that UC? ;-) surprise, surprise.
DW: I live there with Larry.:-P

engage brain before opening mouth

dwmte says on Jun 27, 2005, 13:53:

kat... there? larry?

this imbalance occurs when i'm separated from my family...wife and daughter are with the family in medallo...poor me here in daytona the dull...

dw

soccerstud says on Jul 2, 2005, 01:09:

even the priest aren't catholic i had sex with a catholic priest.....o wait that DOES make them catholic.

andrea_despentes says on Jul 3, 2005, 23:56:

*ARE COLOMBIANS CATHOLIC?

Yes they are for the most.

*ARE COLOMBIANS HARDCORE CATHOLICS, LIKE MEXICANS?

No they are not, most Colombians are mildly catholic, actually about half of the population is just catholic by name, most catholic couples in Colombia, nowadays live on a free union, and many couples don't even consider the idea of marriage an option.

*FUTURE OF CATHOLICISM IN COLOMBIA?

most likely the next generations of Colombians will be even less catholic than today's colombians, a vast number of Colombians are being exposed to other ideas like it has never happened before, and the number of catholics in the country has been dropping steadily for some time now.

CONCLUSION: most colombians are just catholics because that is their parents religion, not really because they deeply believe in this faith.

utopiacowboy says on Jul 4, 2005, 09:20:

When was the last time you went to Mass in Colombia, Andrea? I guess all those people crammed in there are there because their parents made them go? I disagree with you that most Catholic couples live in a free union. Among the couples of my acquaintance in Colombia I don't know of any who live in a free union. The vast majority were married in the Catholic church. One of my sisters-in-law is married civilly only and my mother-in-law heartily disapproves of even that.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

andrea_despentes says on Jul 4, 2005, 18:09:

well yes, most of the people you see in the church are mostly pushed by their mom, the young colombians dont care much about religion

and yes is true, i think is like 45% of the couples in colombia live on a free union.

I have to bring the sources as soon as i find them

the last time i went to church was like 2 years ago, and i am in colombia, i went bevcause two years ago i lived with my parents, now i live alone, so i dont even bother

most of my cousins who have children dont even get married, or get married because it's too much of a hassle.

I personally encourage colombians to abandon the catholic church, i would love to see an atheist nation.

otherwise we would end up like mexico, full of deeply religious freaks praising images.

utopiacowboy says on Jul 4, 2005, 22:44:

I could have predicted your response. You hate the Catholic Church so that skews your entire point of view. Maybe you ought to go back to church. Better go early - if you arrive late or on time there will so many people there's no place to sit. I have been to Colombia several times for extended stays but I'm not Colombian so when I read your post about the "free unions" I told my wife who had lived in Colombia for 43 years. She had a one word answer: Mentira. BTW, what do you know about Mexico?

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

Condorlisa Arroz says on Jul 4, 2005, 22:54:

If you talk about Religion, Catholic, Christian... then you cant really talk about advanced or backwards. You make it sound as if yesterday one plus one was two (1+1=2) and today one plus one does not equal two (1+12) any more. The teachings remain the same. The interpretation though is often altered to fit better into the own desires. CA Montañas de Colombia

CA Montañas de Colombia

utopiacowboy says on Jul 5, 2005, 09:21:

I did a little research on this issue and found a report from the Food and Agriculture Organization of the UN. Interestingly enough they did find that a high percentage of couples in Colombia (29%) live together in free unions. However this is not something to celebrate. As the report said:

"Latin America and the Caribbean is the continent of the world where living together or consensual union is the greatest. This cannot be considered as, in general, a signal of emancipation from women rather, quite the opposite of their poverty and low contractual power (CEPAL, 1993). Consensual undone are greater in Haiti, Dominican Republic, Panama, and El Salvador. In the remainder of the countries, important proportions are appreciated excepting in Puerto Rico and Chile where this type of marriage is minimal: 5.4% and 4.6%, respectively (Table 15, Graph 10).

Charbit ("Famille et nupcialité dans la Caraïbe", 1987, CEPAL, 1993) upon analyzing the important proportion of consensual fond in the Caribbean, indicated that the main determining factor of these unions is poverty. The author formed and interesting description regarding women'. life cycle in consensual unions, particularly those who have children from many partners; the above, based on in-depth interviews, confirmed by quantitative data: it generally concerns poor, uneducated women who lack knowledge on sexuality and family planning for which they tend to have early, unwanted pregnancies. Furthermore, they have scarce work training and do not see themselves as self-sufficient workers. Therefore' they center there trust and aspirations on marriage. They do not propose demands on the man, either before or after their sexual or conjugal relationship, since they assume that bearing a child will ensure the support of their partners.

Regarding the duration of consensual unions, they tend to be more unstable than legal marriages in more relative developed countries such as Costa Rica and Colombia."

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

juanalejo says on Jul 5, 2005, 09:43:

Marriage Reason being why in Colombia after 18 months of cohabitation an unmarried couple automatically assumes all the rights of a legally married one.

CaballeroDeSantiago says on Jul 15, 2005, 21:45:

Colombia and Vatican II The real problem is not principally Colombia's, it is the Heresies of the Second Vatican Council, in particular on Modernism (Development of Doctrine), Salvation Outside the Church (that Non-Catholic may be saved as such) and on Religious Liberty (that all men have the right to profess any religion)....and the logical deductions of these errors bring people who claim to be Catholic to be really heretics because they blindly follow the sect, and thus rampant problems spread. In particular, Colombia had a Catholic Consititution, meaning it favored the Catholic Religion, and hindered heretical sects. Vatican II revoked this (Cf. Dignitatis Humanae, Gaudium et Spes), and Paul VI and John Paul II enforced that all States (such as Malta, Spain, Brazil, and Colombia, etc.) revoke their former concordats with the Vatican (Pre-Vatican II Popes) and agree to give liberty to heretical sects.

That is the great betrayal of the Vatican II Sect-and-yes all states that agreed to it!!! And hence all countries have fallen because of this...

God bless all people who truly desire to do the will of God.

If you like to read more please visit the following site that I found very informative on the Catholic Faith, and how the Vatican II sect differs:

http://www.patrickpollock.com/Documents-theological%20writings-tracts.html

CaballeroDeSantiago says on Jul 15, 2005, 21:48:

+ Santiago ora por Colombia

http://faculty.washington.edu/petersen/462/santiago.jpg

platano says on Jul 15, 2005, 22:23:

"God bless all people who truly desire to do the will of God." Is it possible for anyone NOT to do the will of God? I mean God created us (our will had nothing to do with it) and God will take us one day (whether we will it or not).

By definition God is "all-powerful" so we don't have any choice except to do the will of God. God is running the show. We are but puppets.

I AM ONE HAPPY GREEN BANANA PUPPET AND I AM HAPPY WITH GOD'S WILL!

Plátano, el banano verde
Oxigeno Verde ¡Libertad por Ingrid y los demás!

plátano