Another doubt about Colombia: security hassles

morphus says on Mar 12, 2006, 19:05:

Danger is part of the lure. If Colombia was a safe paradise it would'nt be as fun.

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 12, 2006, 19:17:

Greg, are you sure you're not LondonMale/MaleOrange? I hope the next thread you start isn't about leaving food out all night.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Rubiazo says on Mar 12, 2006, 19:18:

You just described virtually every city on the planet. Putting glass on the roofs of buildings was pretty much invented here. A thief normally tries to get in a commercial space through the roof first.

Just where is it that you live that they don't have these things, and who are your friends?

Man, I even got Dominican and Mexican friends who want to come back down to Colombia with me now next time I go!!

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Greg444 says on Mar 12, 2006, 19:25:

Nope have not seen it in the US, Rubiazo.

But, I have seen 20 acre parks with free access, plenty of different fields, people leaving their bikes and cars unlocked, walkmans and other stuff laying around, and enjoying a full day without much thought of theft.

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juanalejo says on Mar 12, 2006, 19:28:

Greg Your friends are right, you should not move down here, I can assure you we can do without you.

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Rubiazo says on Mar 12, 2006, 19:34:

Yes but Where in the US is that, I frankly have not seen it!
Certainly nowhere anywhere NEAR NYC! Here every last fucking city park has HOURS OF OPERATION! Even Central Park now closes!
As for leaving your bike unlocked, frankly I would not do that ANYWHERE in any country. Let me know where this is, there is a great market for second hand bikes here!!

There are lots of parts of Colombia where parks are not surrounded with barbed wire and people even routinely leave their doors unlocked (some, NOT all), but you're not gonna find them in or near big cities.

None of this is to say that there is not a danger of theft in Colombia, but the things that you posted on seem to me to be almost universal. As a matter of fact, that reminds me I need to phone the ironmonger tomorrow to see about getting reinforced bars over these windows here :P

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Lostgringo says on Mar 13, 2006, 00:11:

broken glass on walls Well, if you put broken glass on the top of walls here you could get a big fine. If someone cuts themselves and perhaps bleds to death you would be liable. If you put up an iron fence with spikes on it and someone died, you would be liable to.

Glass shards and spiked iron fences are not needed in Canada, nor are they tolerated. I can understand why they are needed in Colombia however.

Greg is just stating how he feels. It is culture shock to see all of this initially. You get used to it after awhile (maybe).

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Crazy4Cali says on Mar 13, 2006, 06:53:

It's not just Colombia You see that sort of "architecture" all over Latin America, not just in Colombia.

But, Colombia, is not the U.S. My wife was just telling her friends in Cali, that the city we live in has only had two murders in the past several years. Her friends couldn't believe it! I think one of the murders was over a parking spot at the mall during the Christmas shopping season, so you can't relax completely.

If adapting to a different way of life is going to hard for you, I'd agree that you should probably not move to Colombia. One man's cheese is another's stale milk.

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nat718 says on Mar 13, 2006, 06:56:

Greg, any large, busy urban center will have security measures in place. This is not specific to Bogota. NYC has metal doors that roll down to protect stores at night. Bars and clubs have bouncers and metal detectors. Hydrants that stick out of buildings and low walls have jagged metal on top of them to prevent people from sitting, loitering, and congregating. I have played on basketball courts in NYC that were surrounded by metal fencing with gate and lock. Not only do many parks here have specific hours of operation, but are commonly surrounded by fences. I will not live in an apartment on a lower floor without bars in the windows, and never without a metal gate over windows that open onto the fire escape. There are certainly lots surrounded by fences with razor wire at the top. etc, etc, etc. Welcome to the big city. Also, whatever gave you the notion that Colombia is a paradise of safety?

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Marinero223 says on Mar 13, 2006, 06:57:

Like any big city in the world... I currently live in Boston and after living here for 2 months, there has been 3 shootings less than 2 blocks away, I was assaulted by a gang of 6 teenagers (first time in my life), and every apartment has iron bars on the ground floor windows... and we live in the "fancy & trendy" South End.
I think that there a few cities in the world where one will not see "precautions" like were described by the thread-starter.
The only thing that stood out for me in Medellin is seeing many armed guards at banks and in front of apartment buildings...

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Gator says on Mar 13, 2006, 08:37:

SOP... in Central and South America.
"Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapults habebunt."

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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Rubiazo says on Mar 13, 2006, 11:33:

Depends where in Canada Toronto certainly has razor wire all over the place. Don't know about liability issues or whatnot. Toronto doesn't have anywhere near the crime most Latin American cities have but it's sure getting there fast!

Part of it just has to do with people's perception, and not necessarily the reality of the situation. NYC doesn't have a big problem with crime or theft anywhere near like it used to, but the metal gates and razor wire aren't going away any time soon!

My next door neighbor is an old Italian guy who used to work as a doorman at a residential building by the Empire State Building. He told me in the late 60s all of a sudden the metal gates started going up all over the neighborhood and residents were FURIOUS! They thought it was an unnecessary eyesore! But now it's to the point that your insurance will TRIPLE if you don't have a proper metal gate, so everybody and their dog has one!

Canadians just have their heads in the sand on that one. Canada now has 50% more violent crime than the US does and as soon as people get out of denial you'll see broken glass all over roofs there too!

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adrimm says on Mar 13, 2006, 12:04:

Just becuase you can't see it.. Doesn't mean it isn't there. I can think of plenty of family homes in Canadian and US cities that have home-alarm systems. In Colombia, you have the old-fashioned security system - tall steel gates and wrought iron window screens, or a doorman *always* on duty.

Woop-de-doo. Nothing new about that or the 19 yo military guys scattered around - I've seen it each trip in the last 20 years that I have been going to Colombia. It's part of the scenery in a Colombian city (just as well-armed guards are a norm in places like Heathrow).

Guess what, there are actually places in Colombia that don't have the security... and same as in Canada and US, you'll find that it happens in sleepy little towns. outskirts of Chicoutimi, Que. no doors locked, Outskirts of Barichara, Santander, no doors locked.

I'd have to agree with Rubz that Colombia's sort of home-security is actually the norm around the world, not just in latin america. Look at cities in India, cities in countries of Africa, the Phillipines, etc. etc.

It's all just part of being in a different part, except that we have to remember to try to see it through local eyes, becuase sometime our own eyes are conditioned to something totally different.

If a traveller can't wrap their eyes and head around differences like this, then that traveller should stick to places more similar to their own home for their vacations, or package resorts, becuase otherwise it won't be enjoyable (who can relax if they are all keyed up?).

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toneloc24 says on Mar 13, 2006, 13:06:

Greg444 - Who EVER said Colombia was paradise? I honestly don't think you're cut out to live in South America, or anywhere outside of where you currently reside. You seem dead set on bringing your own notions to Colombia, as opposed to learning about the Colombian culture and how normal people get by. Everything you mention, everything, is negative. Go back and look at each of your posts.

If such were not the case, you wouldn't keep making a case for yourself to stay wherever you are. Do yourself a favor, listen to yourself. You're not built for Colombia.

Your last thread was about low wages and lack of marriage-material women in Colombia, this one is about security? Exactly what do you really know about Colombia, to be considering a move there?

Broken glass on top of walls =
white picket fences = barbed wire = security gates on windows = double bolt locks

This type of security is common in South America, the Caribbean, etc.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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Rubiazo says on Mar 13, 2006, 13:59:

Frankly a place where people don't lock their doors or a place where people leave valuable items in their car just translates to a place full of stupid people to me. It's human nature to steal!

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 13, 2006, 14:01:

Rubiazo in Villavo where my mum lives, we don't lock the doors, they stay all day open with the rocking chairs outside.:)

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Rubiazo says on Mar 13, 2006, 14:05:

here in NYC if you leave anything lying around out of doors, people will just assume that you are leaving it out because you don't want it anymore and will take it if they want it. Anything in the lobby of a building is fair game too :(

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utopiacowboy says on Mar 13, 2006, 14:24:

That's how it is in Monteria. In Medellin, you unlock the door to get in and as soon as you're inside you lock the door again. In Monteria, everybody's out on the sidewalk anyway sitting in their chairs talking, eating and drinking.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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brunito says on Mar 13, 2006, 14:38:

Rubiazo, come out with hard facts before stating the following: 'Canadians just have their heads in the sand on that one. Canada now has 50% more violent crime than the US does and as soon as people get out of denial you'll see broken glass all over roofs there too!'

It sure ain't Montreal since murder rate in 2005 was about 3 times less then it was 20 years ago...

Take a look at this site (official canadian govt site) for real statistics:

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/040728/d040728a.htm

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Rubiazo says on Mar 13, 2006, 17:41:

Montreal has gotten safer Pretty much everywhere else hasn't though. Toronto has gotten exponentially worse since I left in 1997, as has Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Vancouver, to name a few.

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. says on Mar 14, 2006, 06:04:

It is better you not to come It is better you do not come mate, I enjoy Colombia as much that I would like to have it just for my self. I recomend you to go to a magic garden with hundred of coloured birds flying around, with a little river passing by and gnomos serving you all the time, probably you will find pinochio and handsell and grettell as well. But you will not find that in Colombia, Colombia is a country to have a real fun witout peace.

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nat718 says on Mar 14, 2006, 06:43:

Better yet, go here: http://www.sixflags.com/
But even they are "beefing up security"

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Greg444 says on Mar 14, 2006, 13:14:

Oh, I have already been to Colombia several times, I just think it is very strange , Colombians touted as happy, loving, caring, friendly people vs all the security, armed security guards everywhere, imbedded broken glass walls, metal bars, dead bolt locks,etc...

I agree the people are freindly. BUT, seems like a disconnect, or a hidden undercurrent exists in the Colombian's true personalties, otherwise you not see all this.

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toneloc24 says on Mar 14, 2006, 13:51:

Visiting vs Living Apparently when you go to Colombia, you stay in the very nicest of areas in whatever city you visit. I can't fault you for that. It's just apparent that you didn't venture out past that wonderland at all.

All of the things that you're saying, are EVERYWHERE in Colombia in every city, even in some of the Strata 5 and Strata 6 areas, as even those privileged folks have material things/lives that need to be protected. It's not paradise, it's a mode of survival.

Colombians are happy and friendly people, by nature. I guess if they had to think about all the negative things that surround their country and their existence, one would get rather depressed pretty quickly. There's a reason that people wish to migrate elsewhere, if they could. Therefore, I guess, one of their coping methods is just dealing with it.

Of course, many would love to change their circumstances ASAP. Most by honest means (hard work), others by whatever means necessary (petty theft, deception, armed robbery, home invasions, etc.).

No dar papaya is rule #1 in Colombia. Give up the papaya, and someone WILL take it and keep taking it. If you don't understand that little bit, you're not ready to live in Colombia.

So if you think "security, armed security guards everywhere, imbedded broken glass walls, metal bars, dead bolt locks, etc." is paradise, have you really been looking around? And you're thinking of moving there? These people KNOW what they are doing. The disconnect is in your own mind only.

"Don't tase me, bro!!!!"

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JMOON87 says on Mar 14, 2006, 15:08:

To each his own I think most colombians would go back in a second if they could make the same money they make in the u.s. ...My brother in law makes more money than me in colombia and has no interest in the u.s. and my wife would return in a second as she also had a good job there ...I spent 4 months there last year in Cali, Cartenga, San andres and Bogota and never felt threatened or had any problems ..i think citys in colombia are no diferent than anywhere in the u.s. there are certain parts of every city that are dangerous . My wife only had 1 robbery incident in her life in colombia and that was another lady stole her wallet out of her purse while she had her attention diverted elsewhere ...i live in a very nice neighborhood but have to deal with the teenagers shooting my car with a bb gun and spraying graffiti everywhere so there are problems everywhere except where the person who started this thread lives- where you can leave your mp player unattended and nobody will bother it .

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Rubiazo says on Mar 14, 2006, 19:56:

Yeah that's a popular myth Out of all the Colombians I know that are still down in Colombia, very few of them have any interest in going to the USA. And the interest level is even lower among those who have actually been here. Another surprising thing is how many Cubans choose to make Colombia their permanent home instead of the USA. Part of that may have to do with the fact that they can legally emigrate there though. But a lot of Cubans that I met in Bogota didn't have very nice things to say about the US either!!!

I can tell you straight up who WOULD be better off in the USA, anybody involved in the construction business, unless you actually own the company or are a big-time developer! Or in general, anybody in the skilled or semi-skilled trades does a lot better here for themselves; they are just simply much more valued here.

A lot of people see graffiti, or metal gates, or razor wire, and automatically freak out. Really these things don't tell you bugger-all about a place's actual robbery statistics. They just tell you how prepared people are AGAINST these eventualities.

For example, the crime rate here in NYC is at a 45 year low right now. But 45 years ago people DID actually leave their doors open here, even in the South Bronx!!! Of course the South Bronx was still pretty solid middle class back then, but still! Irish and Chinese families used to leave their shoes OUTSIDE THEIR APARTMENTS in the hallway, as is tradition in both countries, believe it or not! People didn't have AC in general in those days, so on hot days people would just go to sleep on roofs, on stairwells, and in public parks!! Probably none of these things are ever going to happen here anymore, because people just don't trust each other or respect each other the way they used to. But that doesn't mean that there is more crime now than there was then!

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