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Another attempt to criminalize personal drug use (and maybe chicharrones)

According to the article, three or four similar attempts have already failed.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/997216.html

By Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) on Apr 13, 2009, 12:37 in Friendly Talkzone.

Simon says on Apr 13, 2009, 12:41:

Let's hope this abhorrent vice finally gets criminalized!

Viva Uribe!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 13, 2009, 12:51:

Palm oil should be criminalized too...kills and maims more people than personal dosis.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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La_Huella says on Apr 13, 2009, 13:08:

Or petroleum oil for that matter!

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Brians says on Apr 13, 2009, 13:44:

Yes but there is a economic necessity in petroleum and society accepts a risk for the benefits. I agree with Desi on Palm oil.

12VOIP.com gives free calls to Colombia. Brian

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2009, 13:58:

Silly Alvaro. I think you have more important things to worry about. This is typical "get tough on drugs" politician BS.

Yo me como los mocos debajo de la ruana pa que no me pidan.

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Simon says on Apr 13, 2009, 14:03:

Yeah, really silly for opposing this scourge that has brought so much misery to Colombia. Good luck, President Uribe!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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romy says on Apr 13, 2009, 15:13:

criminalization has brought much more misery. who's silly?

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rhydewithdis (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2009, 15:18:

Simon since you know so much, explain how criminalizing this would be engender less misery on our beloved Colombia than the legalization and control of drugs.

Remember that despite personal dosis, per capita usage of drugs in Colombia is lower than EEUU.
I await your response.

They said I couldn't play football I was too small / They say I couldn't play basketball I wasn't tall / They say I couldn't play baseball at all / And now everyday of my life I ball.

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lpdiver says on Apr 13, 2009, 18:05:

Legal or illegal the usage remains the same.

Criminalization does several things. It incarcerates a great quantity of people, a lot of them needlessly. It increases the cost of the drugs driving the users to illegal activities to support their habit. It creates a "business" of "fighting the war on drugs". This is really a tax on drug use.

Why not eliminate the middle man and just tax drug usage. It would lower the prison population, another hidden "tax on drugs". The war on drugs could be greatly moderated and lower the "tax" on drug usage.

The "war on drugs" is a worthy battle. We are just going about it all wrong.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2009, 18:19:

legalization is like acepting that coca is good, or metamphetamins(however is called) are ok to do, im not that against weed since they are almost like a cigarrette with a alcohol buzz but longer, but all the other kind of drugs are not good and shouldnt be tolerated.

despenalizing the drugs in Colombia will only bring thougher controls against colombian citizens traveling to foreign countries and will do nothing to the prices or anything like that since most of the drugs made here go to the US and Europe.

so all it will do is give a pass free of the drugs tru Colombia to the US and make it impossible for the law to prevent drug traficking to countries such as the US.

being said that, it will help the farc to increase their profit and make it perfectly legal for them to make it and send it, increasing their money that will then use to kill colombians.

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lpdiver says on Apr 13, 2009, 18:23:

It is ALREADY impossible to prevent drug trafficking to the US.

ts

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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rhydewithdis (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2009, 19:15:

turnmeon, you have your facts all wrong.

"despenalizing the drugs in Colombia"
personal dosis already allows the possession of weed and cocaine by individuals in small quantities meant for personal use.

"im not that against weed since they are almost like a cigarrette with a alcohol buzz but longer, but all the other kind of drugs are not good and shouldn't be tolerated"
why weed and not anything else? all this sounds like is a personal preference upon which you want to project this arbitrary form of control upon others deciding what should and should not be legal.

"so all it will do is give a pass free of the drugs tru Colombia to the US and make it impossible for the law to prevent drug traficking to countries such as the US."
hog wash. again, personal dosis is already legal (in Colombia) and drug trafficking is illegal, yet it has not stopped the flow of drugs into countries such as the US.

"being said that, it will help the farc to increase their profit and make it perfectly legal for them to make it and send it, increasing their money that will then use to kill colombians."
you get a pass on your grammar if English is your second language... that point aside, what we are talking about here has nothing to do with FARC in the context within which you bring them up. This is for personal consumption, which is already LEGAL. Uribe is trying to have that overturned.

Calderon of Mexico has been trying to legalize the possession of personal amounts of some drugs in order to focus the efforts of Mexico's strained legal resources from prosecuting criminally users of drugs to the cartels who are trafficking drugs and killing scores of Mexicans.

They said I couldn't play football I was too small / They say I couldn't play basketball I wasn't tall / They say I couldn't play baseball at all / And now everyday of my life I ball.

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durito2 says on Apr 13, 2009, 20:12:

they should criminalize drinking alcohol as well

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dirt_farmer says on Apr 13, 2009, 20:16:

and eating fried foods

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ujay says on Apr 14, 2009, 02:14:

i heard they are going to Bangkok,
might as well they are banning every thing else.....

http://www.jukelightning.com

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 14, 2009, 07:31:

True. Politicians(Uribe included) should stop being hypocrites, but it would go against their nature. Alcohol and tobacco are significantly more harmful to individuals and to society than marijuana ever could be. If you are going to criminalize(in the case of Colombia) it refuse to decriminalize it, then apply the same prohibitions to alcohol and tobacco.

Harder drugs like meth and crack are certainly more harmful and the need for decriminalization of those is not as clearly warranted, but there may still be benefits to doing so. However, to lump meth, crack and heroin with marijuana displays a complete ignorance of reality.

Yo me como los mocos debajo de la ruana pa que no me pidan.

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turnmeon (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 14, 2009, 09:07:

rhydewithdis
"you get a pass on your grammar if English is your second language..."

yup it is my second language, and i learnt it by myself, no school, nobody telling me how to writte/read, i took a English/Spanish dictionary and started reading page after page, six months later i was reading and writting at 50%, the rest i got it by practicing here and there, and the speaking part i got it by practicing with my friend here in Colombia and then after living in the US for more than 3 years i got more fluent.

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Simon says on Apr 14, 2009, 14:31:

"However, to lump meth, crack and heroin with marijuana displays a complete ignorance of reality."

I will gladly lump them all together and US law does too by declaring them all illegal! You don't see anyone running for a public office opening touting their drug use because they know they would have no chance of winning! Only scumbags use illegal drugs.

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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Brians says on Apr 14, 2009, 14:40:

For once I agree with Simon:)

12VOIP.com gives free calls to Colombia. Brian

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 14, 2009, 14:45:

Bush was a coke fiend. Clinton and Obama smoked weed. Everyone knew it and they were still elected. I guess they were real scumbags.

I used to smoke weed and I am far from a scumbag. The only reason I don't smoke anymore is because of the imbecilic drug laws that are more harmful to users than any of the physical effects. There is nothing wrong with smoking a little weed on occasion. If you've never smoked it, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

I don't drink alcohol because I don't like the effects, but I am not stupid enough to call someone who drinks a scumbag. That is the kind of comment made by ignorant, intolerant people.

Yo me como los mocos debajo de la ruana pa que no me pidan.

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elSapo says on Apr 14, 2009, 14:52:

Taking ecstasy or MDMA should be compulsory for all governors at least once a month. Things would be much better for all of us.
Uribe and Chavez should begin today at their meeting.

ANTI IS GONE! ELMO IS GONE!YOU KEEP THE PAPAYA. VIVA PBH.

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lpdiver says on Apr 14, 2009, 15:11:

Yeah Simon and I suppose you believe the "I didn't inhale" response.

TS

Remember what the monkey says, "Fuck money it's free"

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Simon says on Apr 14, 2009, 15:12:

Correction, Bush and Clinton 'were' coke and marihuana fiends. As they matured they came to their senses and realized that what they were doing was wrong. And to those who say there is nothing wrong with smoking some weed, why don't they announce it to everyone they know? Why don't they proudly tell their in-laws, children, bosses, and coworkers about their fun little habit? Could it be perhaps because deep down they know it's a dirty vice and are ashamed about how they will be perceived? Alcohol is a legal beverage to be consumed responsably by adults and is not some nasty-smelling, gateway drug that contains more toxic substances than tobacco!

Simon says decent people don't sell or do (illegal) drugs.

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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Simon says on Apr 14, 2009, 15:14:

Why Marijuana Should Remain Illegal
To the Editor:

I read with concern "Legalizing Marijuana Would Allow Regulation of Its Potency" (letter, Feb. 13). According to the writer, marijuana with high levels of tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC (the chemical that causes the psychoactive effects on the abuser), is not a new phenomenon, and this high potency should not be used as a reason to keep marijuana illegal.

Marijuana is not the same drug it was 20 years ago. Special fertilizers, plant hormones and steroids, carbon dioxide and advanced indoor horticulture techniques are used by the informed grower to "push" the plant to produce the highest grade, most potent variety of marijuana, sinsemilla.

Because of its potency, domestic marijuana is the most highly prized cannabis product in the world. In 1970, the average THC content of a marijuana plant was 1.5 percent. The THC content of today's sinsemilla variety ranges from 8 percent to 20 percent. Today's marijuana is a drug that is significantly more potent than it was during the Woodstock era.

The writer then states that "if the Government really believes that stronger varieties of marijuana are less desirable, then it has one more reason to support legalization. If cultivation of marijuana were legal, growers would not be pressed to produce the strongest possible product, and health authorities would be able to regulate its production and strength."

This logic doesn't hold up. Why would a marijuana abuser opt for a less potent drug when stronger varieties are available? As health regulators distributed the lesser drug, illegal growers would be pushing their higher potency marijuana.

More to the point, potency, although a factor, is not the only reason that marijuana should remain illegal.

Marijuana contains known toxins and cancer-inducing chemicals, which are stored in fat cells for long periods of time. Scientific research relates marijuana use to damaged brain cells and respiratory systems, decreased hormone production in both sexes, acute memory loss, lowered immune systems and impaired motor skills. THC and marijuana smoke have been directly linked to miscarriage, in-utero fetal death, stillbirth and infant death just after birth, along with behavioral and biological abnormalities of offspring.

Also, contrary to reports concerning medical use of marijuana, there are no reliable scientific studies showing that marijuana is an effective drug for treating nausea and vomiting. Although some studies show that pure THC, one of the many chemicals in marijuana, has some effect in controlling nausea and vomiting, this chemical is available in a pharmaceutical capsule for use by the medical community.

Marijuana certainly isn't a drug we want to put our stamp of approval on, no matter what the THC level. And we should beware of those who say "there is nothing new about strong dope." STEPHEN H. GREENE Acting Administrator, Drug Enforcement Administration Washington, Feb. 17, 1994

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/26/opinion/l-why-marijuana-should-remai...

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 14, 2009, 15:20:

If you think that commercial tobacco has less toxic chemicals than good marijuana, you are really fooling yourself. Look it up. You'd be shocked at the toxic shit tobacco companies use to lace their product.

Alcohol also used to be illegal. That prohibition was just as foolish as the prohibition of marijuana. Still, alcohol is a poison that can kill people and often causes them to become violent and belligerent. I guarantee that thousands if not millions of violent deaths have been fueled by alcohol. Pot doesn't make users become violent or problematic. Ask any cop what he would rather deal with, a drunk or a stoner.

You can continue to be blind to the truth and just parrot the nonsense that you have been fed. Countless intelligent persons in the medical, legal and business fields have supported the legalization of marijuana. It is only those with closed, small, foolish minds that continue to believe that it is correct to jail good people for smoking a natural herb that grows out of the ground. Luckily, the tide is slowly turning against such imbecilic attitudes.

Yo me como los mocos debajo de la ruana pa que no me pidan.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 14, 2009, 15:26:

That nonsense you posted was written by an ignorant individual who has a vested interest in keeping the laws as they are. His ridiculous assertions that marijuana causes cancer have been refuted by several scientific medical studies.

If the best you can come up with is some 15 year old nonsense from a guy who makes money from the drug laws, you need to rethink your arguments.

Here is an article from more than a decade later that shows that the DEA idiot didn't know what he was talking about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006...

Here is another from this month that reports that components in cannabis actually may help fight cancer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090401181217.htm

Read the truth. Stop your silly pronouncements about something which you clearly know nothing about.

Yo me como los mocos debajo de la ruana pa que no me pidan.

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romy says on Apr 14, 2009, 15:47:

drug dealers are the ones most interested in criminalizing drugs... Now don't make me say uribe ;)

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Simon says on Apr 14, 2009, 15:56:

"If you think that commercial tobacco has less toxic chemicals than good marijuana, you are really fooling yourself. Look it up. You'd be shocked at the toxic shit tobacco companies use to lace their product."

I did look it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marijuana#Health_issues

How predictable, I knew someone would mention the article's age. So does an article denouncing child porn or men who beat thier spouses from fifteen years ago no longer have any validity either?

You're right, I don't know much about it because I never have nor would I ever try pot, God forbid!I But I do know that the most important leaders of this world would agree with me.

Que tristeza que un tipo inteligente como ud. esta aqui defendiendo algo tan sucio como el uso de drogas ilegales como la marihuana! Que esta pasando con los valores hoy en dia?

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 14, 2009, 16:04:

Yes. In this case, the age of your link matters. I provided more recent scientific studies that refute that DEA guy's claims. Did you even bother to read them?

Your wikipedia entry actually proves a point. Smoking anything is harmful. I am not debating that. However, smoking marijuana is less harmful than smoking tobacco since it DOES NOT CAUSE cancer. Read my links to see that.

Your article mentions that users who use vaporizers to inhale marijuana don't suffer the same ill effects. This is also true when marijuana is used to cook snacks and is eaten. Those are much safer ways to consume marijuana.

The point is that if you see nothing wrong with tobacco being legal, then you should have no problem with the legalization of marijuana.

Lo triste es que un tipo que admite no saber del tema sigue debatiendo algo que no tiene sentido. Tu me caes bien, pero aquí estas muy equivocado. La verdad es que no tengo tiempo para seguir desperdiciando discutiendo este tema con alguien que no es capaz de ver las cosas claramente y sin prejuicios.

Yo me como los mocos debajo de la ruana pa que no me pidan.

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Simon says on Apr 14, 2009, 16:11:

Equivocado yo por denunciar las drogas ilegales? Si, como no!

Y luego los Colombianos nos quejamos por la fama de drogas que tenemos! Que tristeza!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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durito2 says on Apr 14, 2009, 16:13:

They should make coffee illegal too.

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Simon says on Apr 14, 2009, 16:15:

Sure, right after making Coca-Cola illegal too.

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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La_Huella says on Apr 14, 2009, 16:18:

You forgot Simon, MARIJUANA AINT ILLEGAL IN COLOMBIA. I can smoke to my heart's content down here.

Also, just so that you know, your precious Uribe is a practising yagero. Put that one in your pipe and smoke it!! :)

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Simon says on Apr 14, 2009, 16:20:

Huella...pretty soon your free reign of mary jane will end in Colombia!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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La_Huella says on Apr 14, 2009, 16:22:

All smoke and mirrors Simon. Like I said, Uribe uses a lot of shit that would surprise you. The rhetoric in front of TV cameras is one thing, the reality is another.

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durito2 says on Apr 14, 2009, 18:12:

"Sure, right after making Coca-Cola illegal too."

Worse for you than pot.

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