Andres Oppenheimer Report; Says "Uribe Closer To a 3rd Term and Self Destruction"

thepieman says on Sep 8, 2009, 10:08:

Even in the uk where you can be re-elected as many times as the people vote you.. 2 terms seems to be the best, unless your someone like bush, the third is the killer and things usually start to fall apart around you..

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dguittar says on Sep 8, 2009, 10:15:

Who is the up and coming polit?

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Papi de Alejo says on Sep 8, 2009, 10:19:

Some say Fajardo. Others say Santos. And then there is Piedad Cordoba.

Live simply... Love generously... Care deeply... Speak kindly...

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Aji1 says on Sep 8, 2009, 10:54:

"poverty down" ??? I think Uribe has done a good job overall, but poverty down? That has not been my understanding of the situation. Address the displaced please Uribe.

Other than that I think this rule still applies:

Visitors (and Pres.) are like seafood, they both go bad after 3 days (or terms). IMHO

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

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dguittar says on Sep 8, 2009, 11:03:

Politicians who stay too long tend to get WAY TOO friendly, with the big money lobby's' and the military. I don't think Colombian President Alvaro Uribe will suffer by not having another term. Most of our ex-US presidents move on to making millions.

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soylocombiano says on Sep 8, 2009, 13:28:

FDR was in his 4th term when he died in office......The country needs and wants Uribe at the moment, so why shouldn't they be allowed to elect him if they want to?

Living well is the best revenge

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Aji1 says on Sep 8, 2009, 13:48:

Very true, but it is also FDR that inspired the 22nd amendment to the constitution and the presidential term limits I seem to recall.

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!

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soylocombiano says on Sep 8, 2009, 14:27:

I wasn't aware that there was a lot of opposition to him leading the country through a crisis, but I wasn't around. Was there a lot of controversy about it?

Living well is the best revenge

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tasco66 says on Sep 8, 2009, 14:42:

"Bad for Colombia, because it would turn it into a Mickey Mouse democracy,"

Well I guess that makes all of Europe a "Mickey Mouse democracy" since there are no turn limits there...

Now remind me how many votes did Gordon Brown win, if any?

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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dguittar says on Sep 8, 2009, 15:18:

Uribe es el mejor presidente que he visto en mucho tiempo los problemas de Colombia son muy entrelazadas y difíciles de resolver. Me gustaría dejar a los colombianos a decidir si quieren que él, sin juzgar sus límites de tiempo. Él ha hecho grandes avances internacionales en la estabilización de una situación difícil. Con el fin de consolidar sus ganancias va a necesitar para resolver los problemas de desplazamiento y la equidad financiera en el país. Buena suerte en Colombia!

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Simon says on Sep 8, 2009, 15:41:

Oppenheimer is a smart guy and I usually enjoy his columns, but this time he really foked up!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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miamimike says on Sep 8, 2009, 15:54:

LOL--Simon-He wrote an Opinion contrary to your thinking so now he sux. Don't worry, his next Column he will be back hammering Hugo and Fidel and all will be well with your world! lol

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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el norteño (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 8, 2009, 16:46:

billyb says on Sep 8, 2009, 17:12:

Look at Peru as a sign for the future. Fujimori got rid of Sendero Luminoso, then they got rid of Fuji, didn't need him any more, and what happened??? Look who's back, yup, you guessed, Sendero. Just make sure some pu$$y doesn't take over in Colombia and give it all back to Cano and co.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Dolfi says on Sep 9, 2009, 02:45:

Fujimori and Uribe - I think that is a good comparison. You know how Fujimori ended in prison after fleeing the country; who knows what will happen to Uribe in the end?

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billyb says on Sep 9, 2009, 07:06:

And look what is happening with the Sendero making a comeback, but of course you support terrorists so you don't see their return as a bad thing.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 9, 2009, 07:25:

Sendero is back for the same reason FARC would be back, sooner or later: there is no possible military solution to erase the existence of armed rebellion until some MAJOR structural socioeconomic improvements are made. You can kill every last one of the guerrilla, new ones will be born every day due to poverty, lack of democracy, unequal distibution of wealth and strict and unforbidding class society. Uribe chose the same way as Fujimori did, the end result may well be something similar. Without the necessary social investing the monster of war will never disappear from Colombia. As long as the CONDITIONS that create subversion exist, there are NO military solutions.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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tasco66 says on Sep 9, 2009, 07:31:

Sendero is back because they put a weak politicians with no balls to replace Fujimori.

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 9, 2009, 07:41:

makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 9, 2009, 07:43:

billyb says on Sep 9, 2009, 07:44:

"Sendero is back because they put a weak politicians with no balls to replace Fujimori"

And they are also back, because the are now being financed by the renascent cocaine industry in Peru, backed by the Mexican cartels, Desi, why do you always delude yourself into thinking these terrorist groups have any social agenda beyond enriching themselves and taking power? Have you not been proven wrong enough already?

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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manINred says on Sep 9, 2009, 07:45:

"You can kill every last one of the guerrilla, new ones will be born every day due to poverty, lack of democracy, unequal distibution of wealth and strict and unforbidding class society."

I disagree... the guerrilla is vastly weakened compared to decades past, and under Uribe the government's reach has extended, the guerrilla's has diminished considerably.

"Uribe chose the same way as Fujimori did"

In what way? Other than the 'third term' option which hasn't yet been chosen, the link is tenuous in my opinion.

Uribe should probably retire... if his vision and party is so good, someone else can take the helm. The constitution is there for a reason.

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dguittar says on Sep 9, 2009, 08:11:

I told my friend, Ana Marie, who is from Medellin, that I was shocked at the video on this site, 'thread 150 gangs etc.' Not because of the violence depicted in the video, but because of the obvious extreme poverty. How can they get an education? She thinks many of these people have been displaced. In her words "they knew how to work the land but many people come to the city with no skills looking for jobs". She did not think many of the students form "those hills" went to school.
Desideria, without those socio-economic improvements, Colombia will never prosper from her incredible resources. However I think it is important to separate the justified social causes from the outright militarization of the FARC drug cartel. Colombia needs to reclaim their country. As far as the social agenda you suggest, it is important to look at where Colombia started from. Uribe has done a great deal in a short time. I am sure Colombia has several presidential candidates that could carry on his policies. There is still a lot of social work to be done, and certainly education and is one of the keys.
New York Times "Few fair-minded observers would ascribe “evil” or dictatorial attributes to socialism as practiced in, for example, the postwar democracies of Britain and Sweden." September 9

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 9, 2009, 11:23:

I'm not saying the guerrilla has the answer either, just that there will always be guerrilla if the problems are not solved at the grass-roots level. Colombia needs to be be rebuilt from the basement, not just the top floors while the foundations and the basement crumbles. Guerrilla is SYMPTOM, not a CAUSE. Just like in Peru, you can win a military victory over the guerrilla, but if the underlying reasons for the existence of a guerrilla remain, there will be re-surgency.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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billyb says on Sep 9, 2009, 11:44:

Peru could be a model of socialist utopia and Sendero would still be trying to make a comeback, they want power, not equality or justcie, same as the FARC, if they ver had those inclinations, they left them behind several decades ago..

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 9, 2009, 12:15:

I don't think you understood what I meant.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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esanch36 says on Sep 9, 2009, 12:27:

While that may have been the cause of the farc forming in the begining that is no longer the case today. One has to believe that if the gurrilla and para's were gone colombia could prosper and turn there focus to solving some of the many equalities that it has. Do you really think the farc is going to go away if the social equalities disapear????? this is all about drugs and the farc padding there pockets with $$$$....

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tasco66 says on Sep 9, 2009, 12:36:

You got that one right. If there was no drug trade Colombia would be a much safer place.

The trouble with free elections is, you never know who is going to win (Leonid Brezhnev)

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Sep 9, 2009, 12:38:

Yes, that is my belief. No, not that FARC would go away, but they would be isolated and delimited as a gang of drug dealers and criminals and they would lose all the goodwill, support and sympathy they may still have (not much, inside or outside Colombia)) as an insurgency. In a more progressive society, the FARC would be more clearly defined as a drug maffia and as such yes, I would approve it should be erradicated as a criminal organization. The Plan Colombia money would have given a longer-lasting results if it had been used for social and economical improvements. It's like killing the symptoms instead of attacking the disease itself.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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roccatanski says on Sep 9, 2009, 12:57:

makopp5 what do you know about landmines?? you ever have some of your buddies blown to bits after hitting a landmine like I have...

"A man is defined by his actions, not his memory" ( Kuato-- total recall)

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esanch36 says on Sep 9, 2009, 13:18:

yeah but the farc is the big reason that these social equalities exist. Do you really think its in there self intrest to bring social equality to the poor? Do they really want to see companies come into colombia and provide employment? If that were to happen they would lose thier foot soldiers.

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billyb says on Sep 9, 2009, 14:20:

"but they would be isolated and delimited as a gang of drug dealers and criminals and they would lose all the goodwill"

They already are in Colombia, it is only with the leaders of Ecuador, Venezuela and Nicarague and some misguided Europens as well, that they have any goodwill left.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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makopp5 (☼Travelguide writer) says on Sep 9, 2009, 15:26:

Dolfi says on Sep 10, 2009, 03:56:

In this very interesting article: http://www.semana.com/noticias-print-edition/lost-opportunity/128123.a... is said:

“Although a decrease in poverty from 53.7 % to 46 % is noteworthy, it was below everybody’s expectations, even the president’s. In a public event celebrating the International Day Against Poverty in 2006 president Alvaro Uribe stated “Believe me, during my last 46 months in power, poverty will decrease to 35 %.” His projected results were better than those of the National Planning Agency (DNP), who placed the expected figure at 39 % for 2010.

This is not the worst part. The numbers for extreme poverty increased two points ( from 15.7 to 17.8%) in the last three years. This means that more than eight million Colombians cannot access basic provisions with their salaries. (The figure is based on a family of four living with less than 450.000 Colombian pesos -USD 200- a month.)

To top it all off, inequality or income distribution is stagnated and the gap between urban and rural scenarios is expanding rapidly.
It is difficult to understand how, after four years of economic growth that surpasses 5% in average, inequality remains untouched. For César Caballero, coordinator for the United Nations Millenium Goals Program, this has an explanation. “The benefits of the bonanza we enjoyed during the last couple of years went to the rich, which only made inequality worse. We couldn’t break with that structure.”

This 17, 8% of the Colombian people who are living in extreme poverty have very few options (as obviously the government doesn’t do anything to help them).

1) Keep on living in misery and die young, 2) become a criminal, 3) Join the FARC or the paramilitaries.

And as long as the social structure that favours the rich isn’t broken, this won’t change.

One must be very naïve not to see this, the evidence is simply overwhelming.

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soylocombiano says on Sep 10, 2009, 09:30:

The solution to the drug problem is obvious, although not simple, legalization would greatly reduce the problems of insatiable demand.

Colombians of all estratos know that, but it seems to escape the average Gringo

Living well is the best revenge

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romy says on Sep 10, 2009, 18:46:

"Colombians of all estratos know that"
somebody should clue in Alvaro Uribe... Perhaps legalization does not benefit his interests.

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billyb says on Sep 10, 2009, 19:01:

It would make no difference if you legalize it Colombia (dosis personal has in fact been upheld by the Colombian supreme court yesterday), if you don't legalize it in the consuming countries, you will still have the profit motive and the crime it produces.

"All I want to know is where I'm going to die, so I never go there" Unkown (at least to me) wise man.

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romy says on Sep 10, 2009, 21:14:

admittedly, the impact of the Colombian president siding with legalization of drugs is more of a symbolic stance than a practical solution to anything. However, this one is a very important stance that must happen in order to move in the more reasonable direction.

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