Andeas Escobar's Murderer goes Free After 10 Years in Prison

Rubiazo says on Oct 7, 2005, 00:23:

That's right most of Latin America is like that.

ConorC says on Oct 7, 2005, 02:54:

Or In Northern Ireland anyone can murder, claim it was a terrorist activity and go free after 6 months

poco says on Oct 7, 2005, 06:24:

Tonight The Killing of Pablo Escobar (Accidental of course)

Will be shown on the History Channel tonight at 8:00 pm ?.

Suggest watching to see exactly how some Colombians react when faced with Justice Problems and the failure of appeasement.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

Neonovo says on Oct 7, 2005, 07:07:

Andreas Escobar and Football's day of shame... Andreas Escobar's father Dario: "Violence poisons football from within". I shall add, ...the rest of Colombia's history as well.

This story describes the events, for those of us who needed a heads-up.

Paz
Neonovo

Colombiche says on Oct 7, 2005, 07:13:

What kind of justice system? I guess one that is a lot like Canada's. Carla Homolka just got out of jail after about 12 years, having raped and murdered her little sister and two or more other girls and videotaped the events so that the evidence is undeniable. At least in Colombia a rapist like that would have gotten a bullet between the eyes.

In Canada, I've never heard of anybody getting more than 15 years no matter what they do. At least in the States they hand out triple and quadruple life sentences!

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 7, 2005, 07:27:

The real problem with Colombia's justice system isn't so much the sentences handed out as the ones that never are. The system is so slow and screwed up that a huge number of cases just slip through the cracks.

poco says on Oct 7, 2005, 07:31:

Exactly gotten a bullet between the eyes.

That is why Escobars death was an accident, that or he turned his head and got it in the ear.

Getting there is half the fun.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

pepster says on Oct 7, 2005, 07:50:

A Joke This is not shocking at all...how can a country drop a crime rate when law enforcement and corrections are a joke.

The Pepster ColombianBlog.com

Rubiazo says on Oct 7, 2005, 08:05:

In Canada they HAVE to let you out after 20 years or 25 years NO MATTER WHAT. Some people tried to change the law to keep Homolka and Bernardo in. I agree, personally I think they should bring back crucifixion for those two winners!!
In the US they go off the deep end on the other extreme. There are people who did nothing more than let their drug dealing friend/bf leave something at their house who are rotting away in jail with 20 year minimums.

gato-bandido says on Oct 7, 2005, 09:25:

The way I see it is that jail time is really secondary. The primary difference is the underlying intent/purpose of each justice system.

In (most of) Europe and in Canada the primary purpose is correction/reeducation/penitence, which is why the system is called penitentiary. In such a system life sentences and death penalties make no sense, simply because the purpose is different, not because of any religious crap.

In the US OTOH the primary purpose is punishment/vengeance, and hence all the triple life sentences/death penalties/bullet between the eyes type justice. Colombia has enough of that "justice" outside of the official justice system, and so trying to copy the US model is not necessarily a great idea.

Of course in this and any other particular case there will be the family and other people who feel that the murderer did not get enough punishment, and if you are the grieving father, the truth is that no punishment is enough from you point of view, not even "bullet between the eyes". But if punishment is your primary purpose, then you just open an Abu Gharib type facility and torture people all the way to insanity and death, there is no need for any kind of justice system at all. If OTOH you believe that any criminal, even Carla Homolka need to be given another chance in life, then the European/Canadian model makes a whole lot more sense.

poco says on Oct 7, 2005, 10:27:

You got this right trying to copy the US model is not necessarily a great idea.

That’s what I like so much about the documentary. They DID TRY with U.S. military help using U.S. methods but guess what, it didn’t work. Then they fixed the problem. The interviews are quite revealing,,, read between the lines.

Colombians will copy anything from anyone or anywhere if it fits, makes more money and is easier, including CD’s, stamps and money. :)

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

mrgizmo says on Oct 7, 2005, 12:09:

There's always justice unless... you're O.J. Simpson, Robert Blake, or Michael Jackson, what kind of justice system do we have in the states? I think a good one unless you have a lot of money

Behind every successful man, there's a nagging woman

Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 7, 2005, 12:18:

Good unless Or unless you're poor and black and your public defender is pressing you to cop a plea so he can get onto his 30 other cases.

caslug says on Oct 7, 2005, 12:39:

US system is GREAT! Money is the great equalizer. If you got it, irregardless of skin color you'll go free. If you DONT have it, irregardless of skin color you goto jail! So in the US, DONT DO THE CRIME UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD A GOOD LAWYER!

Look at Scott Peterson(killed his wife), if he gotten the same defense team of OJ or Ray Lewis, he would've been free! But he's not a millionair so he couldn't afford that type of defense, he got middle-of-the-road hire helped.

poco says on Oct 7, 2005, 12:46:

The bigger they are the harder they fall Simpson, meanwhile, said he isn't worried that relatives of his wife and her friend will take him to court to try to get the money he's being paid.

Imagine that, signing autographs at a convention for almost nothing and knowing he might need to “pay� a part of the 33 MILLION judgment.

Lets see,, only a Million more signatures and he might finish paying.

How long does it take to sign your name a million times?

Why spend the money to keep the Wealthy in Jail? I for one don't want to pay 30 or 40K per year. The U.S. Justice system “makes um pay�… A classic example of the system performing its primary function ,,,, redistribution of the wealth. Justice can assume many disguises.

Paying your debt to society

I'd bet Blake has hocked his Cockatoo.

"Violence is the first refuge of the incompetent" - Isaac Asimov

kernow62 says on Oct 7, 2005, 16:24:

What lawyer did Mike Tyson buy with his millions?

morphus says on Oct 7, 2005, 20:16:

Mike Tyson had an all white jury.

kernow62 says on Oct 7, 2005, 21:12:

Yes, but if having money is the sole basis upon which the function of the US legal system is based then in Mike's case it didn't work.

Nacholoco says on Oct 7, 2005, 21:43:

yeah No justice system is perfect, I think Canada's is a bit lax in the time people spend in jail, then again in most cases the more time somebody spend in jail the worse they come out and they re-offend, and death penalty is just too much, too dramatic and prone to fuckups and killing inocent ppl. And quadruple life sentences is kinda over the top. SO in reality there is no solution, they should just drop those convicts off in a place like Sable Island and leave them there to fiend for themselves. If they manage to survive then they will start a new Australia in the north.


Junior de Barranquilla CAMPEONES PARA SIMEPRE

Junior de Barranquilla CAMPEONES PARA SIMEPRE

CaryGrant says on Oct 8, 2005, 09:09:

Why is nobody comparing the relative crime rates of each country? Surely that is an important part of any discussion about the effectiveness of any criminal justice system? (Unless, of course, the primary purpose of the "justice" system is to punish.)

Desideria (Moderator) says on Oct 10, 2005, 10:41:

I've just read the opinion of a Colombian judge about the release of Andrés Escobar's murderer. It's totally within the laws of the country. He was sentenced to 43 years of prison according to código penal of 2001, which was later changed to 26 years according the new código that reduced the length of the sentences. Every prisoner has the possibility to be realeased on parole after having completed 3/5 of his/her sentence on basis of good behaviour and every three months os study or work reduces the sentence by one month. He was due to be released and the judges had no alternative because of his good conduct and work/study months accumulated.

Cheers,
Desi

(This judge also has the opinion that there's no reason to keep people rotting away in the prisons after they have had all that time to repent and rehabilitate.)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

johnboy77 says on Oct 10, 2005, 11:06:

Rubiazo and COLOMBICHE,

I am not trying to say Canadas legal system isn't without flaws... I know perfectly well. I was a grade 10 student at Lakeport Secondary School in St. Catharines, when K.French was kidnapped. Her school, Holey Cross, was directly beside mine (hers was Catholic, mine public) and I walked home that day down Linwell Ave, the very street she got kidnapped on (she got kidnapped between to Churches, of all places). As it turned out, I was half an hour ahead of her.

But, you are wrong on some points.

In Canada, they do not HAVE to let you out after 25 years. Paula Bernardo got the maximum penalty, 25 years, but has been named a "dangerous offender". Although it is possible a judge can let him out after 25 years, it is very unlikely, because after being named a "dangerous offender" they can keep you locked up until you die. They will never let him out, especially after how badly the POLICE (not the justice system) botched the Homolka case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Offender:

In the Canadian legal system, the Dangerous Offender designation allows the courts to impose an indefinite sentence on a convicted person, regardless of whether the crime carries a life sentence or not. The purpose of the legislation is to detain offenders who are deemed too dangerous to be released into society (e.g. sexual predators) but whose sentences would not necessarily keep them incarcerated under other legislation, such as the Correctional and Conditional Release Act. Under 761(1) of the Criminal Code, the National Parole Board of Canada is required to review the case of an offender with a Dangerous Offender label after seven years, and parole may be granted as circumstances warrant, but the offender would remain under supervision indefinitely. According to Corrections Canada, on average 24 dangerous offenders are admitted to the Canadian prison system each year. Paul Bernardo is perhaps Canada's best known Dangerous Offender, yet it is unlikely he would ever have been released even without this designation, since he received life sentences for first degree murder.

Also, Karla Homolka was never convicted of 1st degree murder. She is serving the correct sentence for what she was convicted of. It is the POLICE who totally f*cked this one up, because if they had of done their jobs properly (like, finding the video tape in their house in Port Dalhousie of both Paul and Karla rapping Kristen French and Leslie Mahafy) they would have never given her the plea bargin...

So while David Milgrath got 20 years for something he didn't do, Homolka gets 12 years for triple rape and murder... but its the fault of the police, not the justice system.