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Allies of Terrorism

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/04/AR2008...

The presidents of Venezuela and Ecuador are revealed as backers of the criminals who fight Colombia's democracy.

Last Saturday, Colombia's armed forces struck a bold blow against the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), a group specializing in drug trafficking, abductions and massacres of civilians that has been designated a terrorist organization by the United States and Europe. Raúl Reyes, a top commander, and some 20 followers were killed in a bombing of their jungle camp in Ecuador, a mile or two from the Colombian border. The attack was comparable to those the United States has recently carried out against al-Qaeda in lawless areas of Pakistan, and it showed how Colombia's democratic government may be finally gaining the upper hand over the murderous gangs that have tormented the country for decades.

Now this remarkable success has been overshadowed by the extraordinary reaction of Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, who has been revealed as an explicit supporter and possible financier of the FARC. Mr. Chávez openly mourned the death of Mr. Reyes and made a show of ordering Venezuelan troops to the border with Colombia while loudly warning that war was possible. He goaded his client, Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa -- whose initial response to the raid was subdued -- into mimicking his reaction. He then partially closed the border with Colombia, a step that will merely worsen the food shortages that have emptied Venezuelan supermarket shelves.

It turns out that both Mr. Chávez and Mr. Correa may have had something to hide. Senior Colombian officials say a laptop recovered at the FARC camp contained evidence that Mr. Chávez had recently given the group $300 million and had financial links with the terrorists dating to his own failed coup against a previous Venezuelan government in 1992. Colombia said Mr. Correa's government had been negotiating with Mr. Reyes about replacing Ecuadorean military officers who might object to his use of the country as a base. In other words, both Mr. Correa and Mr. Chávez were backing an armed movement with an established record of terrorism and drug trafficking against the democratically elected government of their neighbor. No wonder Colombian President �?lvaro Uribe felt compelled to order the cross-border raid; he knows that his neighbors are providing a haven for the terrorists.

There's little chance that this will lead to conventional war, despite the bluster of Mr. Chávez. The more interesting question is how average citizens in Venezuela and Ecuador will react. The FARC is despised across the region for its criminality and brutality; many Venezuelans have been shocked to learn of Mr. Chávez's alliance with the group. According to Mr. Chávez's former defense minister, Raúl Baduel, the Venezuelan military is troubled by the saber-rattling at Colombia. In his zeal to divert attention from a rapidly worsening domestic economic situation and his defeat in a recent referendum, Mr. Chávez is growing increasingly reckless. The principal danger, however, may be to his own country and government.

By gato-bandido on Mar 5, 2008, 08:41 in Politics & the war.

gato-bandido says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:31:

http://www.elespectador.com/elespectador/Secciones/Detalles.aspx?idNot...

Tirofijo estaría en Venezuela

La movilización de tropas venezolanas hacia la frontera tendría como objetivo proteger al líder guerrillero y no atacar a Colombia, aseguran fuentes militares.

La emisora RCN aseguró este miércoles que altas fuentes de inteligencia del Ejército colombiano aseguraron que el máximo comandante de las Farc, Manuel Marulanda Vélez, está refugiado en Venezuela, en un sitio cercano a la frontera con Norte de Santander.

Las mismas fuentes consideran que esa es la razón por la cual el gobierno venezolano ha movilizado tropas hacia la frontera. Manuel Marulanda estaría en una finca en el estado de Barinas, en mal estado de salud.

“Ya sabemos que Chávez no tiene ninguna intención de atacar a Colombia, sólo está movilizando tropas para proteger a Tirofijo�?, aseguró la fuente a RCN, al tiempo que dijeron que la finca estaría ubicada a varios kilómetros de la frontera.

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cali373 says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:49:

There´s democracy in Colombia??? On paper probably.

By the way other than the mediation of hostage-prisoner swap, the governments of Ecuador and Venezuela have no operational support with the FARC. So to say they are backers of the FARC is just as true as Weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq. And we all know how true that is.

Chavez has gone of the deep end, once again. Correa is just defending his country´s sovereignty. Something Colombia and all countries do. Colombia is doing so with Nicaragua currently. The computer that had this info shows Correa´s intention of mediation. As far as the 300 million it was just a number of 300 that was found in a dossier. Was it 300 million, well according to Colombia it is.

Naranjo alleges the "300," called the "dossier" in a Dec. 23 message signed by Marquez, refers to a $300 million gift from Chavez to the rebels.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:57:

"the governments of Ecuador and Venezuela have no operational support with the FARC"

While I would question Ecuador's substantial involvement with the FARC, only a fool would believe that Chavez isn't completely in bed with the FARC.

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

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cali373 says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:05:

So far not even Uribe´s intense propaganda and Media that backs him has proven that. I would think that the U.S. has also not proven it because it will look for any justification to "take him out". But that is just speculation on my part. But if there was evidence of FARC-Chavez operational-monetary support, it would justify going to war with Venezuela more than war with Iraq.

I think Chavez is a fool because he could be doing great things with all the oil money and too a point he is when he supoorts the poor (something that no president has ever done for Venezuelens) but in the long run his 21st century socialism will fail and it will affect all venezuelens which will probably have an effect on its trading partner Collombia. Why he is being so undiplomatic with the sister nation of Colombia is beyond me, even if it is true that Washington pulls Uribes strings. It was not always the case until Chavez started to buy industries, but Venezuela is now better off without Chavez.

Insults don´t faze me, but FACTS do!

Smile if you are a thinker!

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:07:

"But it there was evidence of FARC-Chavez operational-monetary support, it would justify going to war with Venezuela more than war with Iraq."

You're absolutely right. Being leery of Chavez and against the war in Iraq are not mutually exclusive.

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:10:

It wasn't meant as an insult. It is simply a statement of opinion about those who wish to ignore the realities of Chavez' support for an illegal terrorist organization. While the Colombian government is not innocent of excesses and human rights violations, it does not justify Chavez' open support of the farc.

I'll just ask point blank. Do you consider farc to be a criminal and terrorist organization? If so, how do you justify a statement on the part of Chavez that glorified reyes and Chavez' calls to take the farc off the list of terrorist organizations?

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

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Rikito says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:13:

great comments to both of you. I learned a lot. good discussion which does not happen oftern in PBH anymore..

...and so it goes

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Rikito says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:14:

Great coments to both of you. These kind of discsussions do not happen very often in PBH in recent times.

...and so it goes

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cali373 says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:28:

As far as ignoring the realities of supoort for an illegal drug trafficking, terrorist organization. well there is evidence within the U.S. statedepartment of Colombian miltary support for Paramilitaries, but the U.S. still supoorts the Colombian military OVER the Colombian National Police which does not show links the paramilitaires and has proven success over drug trafficking. The para-poltico scandal also brought to light Uribe cronies supporting paramilitaries.

So does that mean the the U.S. is not an allie of terrorism even though only a fool does not see the link between paramilitaries and Uribe.

I am not a supporter of the FARC or paramilitaires (which actually still operate and have for hundreds of years) ,but in the political climate of Colombia they are also NOT terrorist organizations unlike Al-qaida. Even though the AUC expanded violence instead of help with the war. These organizations which enjoy support by many colombians are a direct result of the broken democracy that exists in Colombia.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:36:

If you were to peruse some of my many posts about Uribe, you would see that I have called him out as having very disturbing links with the paras. I am also dead against his repeated attempts to modify the country's constitution for his political gain. I agree that the paras are at least as bad for Colombia as the farc, but it does not justify the support and effective accommodation of the farc by the governments of neighboring countries.

While related, the governments ties to the paras are not the specific issue at hand. We are speaking directly about Venezuela's explicitly expressed support for the farc and their "revolutionary project".

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

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cali373 says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:44:

mmmm OK, I can live with that and yes I would agree that it does not justify the support and effective accommodation of the farc by the governments of neighboring countries.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:58:

BTW, On a completely unrelated note, where are you from in Jersey? I was born in Englewood, but I haven't lived in that part of the country since I was a baby. Are you Colombian?

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

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cali373 says on Mar 5, 2008, 11:19:

Small world. I live in Bergen County. My parents are Colombian. Love that place but also NYC. Englewood is a great place to live now, alot of renovation. Many colombians live there as well.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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scotty says on Mar 5, 2008, 11:21:

good post Gato.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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cali373 says on Mar 5, 2008, 11:24:

Actions speak louder than words.

So what do you call a country that doe shave a history of invading sovereign nations without declaring war and without justification? Causing the death and misery of millions.

Smile if you are a thinker!

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 11:33:

Yep. I still have some family in Bergen county. You say that your parents are Colombian. Do you consider yourself to be Colombian? Personally, despite being born in the US, I consider myself Colombian first, hence my handle.

I'm so hip, I have difficulty seeing over my pelvis.

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Waterdawg says on Mar 5, 2008, 12:25:

LDW
" Throughout history, there have always been strange bedfellows." ..

... Shoot , I thought you were going to say the French .. lol

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Robert Jorge says on Mar 5, 2008, 23:51:

Cali said: "Actions speak louder than words.

So what do you call a country that doe shave a history of invading sovereign nations without declaring war and without justification? Causing the death and misery of millions."

I call them Germany, North Korea, Japan, China, and countless others. Obviously you are implying the US. Tell me one country that the US beat in a war that is now involentarily part of the US. If the US had the desire, we would own most of western Europe, and most of eastern Asia. The fact is, the US is NOT imperialistic, and historically gives back conquered territories.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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