AI: Justice and Peace Law will guarantee impunity for human rights abusers

platano says on Apr 26, 2005, 19:50:

Sr. Tertius, As you have always said, Colombia needs a strong State with a strong judiciary. If I am reading this correctly, this proposed law will allow all the atrocities committed by the FARC to go unpunished, as well as those atrocities committed by AUC.

Colombia gives anarchy a bad name.

Platano
Oxigeno Verde
Foto de Platanito chinito

plátano

Miguel says on Apr 27, 2005, 10:37:

And the beat goes on It also appears that those in power with bloody hands would get cut some slack. Pretty f~~king assbackward in all respects. Forty years and counting...

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 27, 2005, 11:25:

Don't confuse peace with justice Even a cursory glance at the history of peace deals around the world shows that the "punishments" are unsatisfactory from the POV of "justice".

But sometimes a country has to deal with the devil to get past a conflict. The choices are either hunt down every last paramilitary and guerilla and capture or kill them, OR, make some sort of compromise.

Compared to the leniency in places like Africa, this law is downright strict.

juanalejo says on Apr 27, 2005, 11:46:

Peace It seems to be that some peoples hatred to their political enemy, i.e. the far right hatred to the left and guerrillas and the far left hatred to the right and paramilitaries goes beyond the real interest in seeing peace one day in this country. The day we finally decide the first priority at any cost is to stop the killing then we will realize that dealing with the past can be done later. Peace can only be achieved by real forgiveness, and in real forgiveness vengeance and punishment can not be taken into account. Once peace is achieved for good, and no more people are being killed then you can start to look back and see what can be done with the past. This has always been done through history in all peace accords, but somehow the world´s interests are know more important than how many more Colombians die from here onward, and specially seeing those who specific groups hate for what ever reason, punished before they can give peace a chance.

Sr Tertius says on Apr 28, 2005, 09:00:

Recycling the war I think very few would argue that peace can be achieved without some sort of compromise, and that is exactly what justice is about: agreed compromises. The victims of this conflict should have at least as much a voice as the perpetrators of war crimes. That's the minimum. One of the conditions for amnesty in Central America, Peru, and South Africa was for war criminals to admit their crimes, and ask for forgiveness to the relatives of the victims -let's not talk about reparations or anything like that. This is not a matter of hatred, it's minimum decency. But, instead, the victims are being silenced, like Ivan Cepeda in Congress when the paras went to give their speech.

And the paras don't see anything wrong in chainsawing defenseless civilians, so for them there is nothing to be forgiven for. In fact they ask for our gratefulness. I find it troublesome that these people are getting a clean record, and for what? so that they can go back terrorizing civilians? This is not a matter of hatred, but of common sense.

The same should be demanded from the FARC in an eventual peace negotiations. At least they recognize that some of the things they have done and are doing right now are not right, and they conduct their mock revolutionary trial for whatever it is worth. But at least there is an acknowledgment, minimum, but there is something.

Just by calling what is going on with the AUC a "peace negotiation" doesn't make it so. Every day I am more convinced that this is like "laundering" war criminals, recycling them back into the conflict. And we all cheer, because the word "peace" is so pretty. Well, not me.

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

Mr. Hollywood says on Apr 28, 2005, 09:37:

Have you read the proposed law? My perception and yours on this subject are quite different. The proposed law would send a fair number of people away to prison for murder, kidnapping, rape, etc. Not for long enough, sure, by the standards of human decency, but enough to count as a punishment.

Also, remember, this law will apply equally to any of the three groups that "come in from the cold," so it's not really fair to say it shows favoritism for the AUC. The FARC would be equally welcome to take advantage of those terms is they saw fit.

I'm really curious what you mean when you say the FARC, "know things they do are wrong"? How is this manifested? You mean internal discipline? I'm sure the AUC and ELN also have their own "military justice", too. But the FARC has never, to my knowledge, officially admitted doing ANYTHING wrong. The bomb civilians, they kidnap children, they murder politicians, and I can't find a single official apology or admission of wrongdoing. Instead, they cloak their actions in doublespeak like "political detentions" for kidnapping.

The AUC are bad guys, for sure, and arrogant as hell, but at least they're sitting down at the table and talking about making peace.

Neonovo says on Apr 28, 2005, 09:51:

Lebanon's Security and Intelligence Chiefs face the music The assassination of a former prime minister caused an int'l upheaval in Lebanon. Parties in high places paid the price, unlike in Colombia, where their counterparts and perpetrators of similar acts and much worse, unfortunately, may walk from their crimes scott-free...with a wink from the colombian mililtary establishemt.

On Monday, Jamil Sayyed, the powerful head of the General Security service, announced his resignation, blaming "changing political developments," while Raymond Azar, the chief of Lebanese military intelligence, was reported to have fled with his family to France.

The opposition blames the security and intelligence chiefs of colluding with Syria in the assassination of Rafik Hariri, a former prime minister, whose death in February triggered a wave of anti-Syrian demonstrations that ultimately led Syria to withdraw its troops.

Paz
Neonovo

Sr Tertius says on Apr 28, 2005, 20:03:

Mr H "Have you read the proposed law?"

Not entirely. It is available, along other "proyectos" at http://www.redepaz.org.co/article.php3?id_article=87. The governments proposal is the last.

I am no lawyer, but the criticisms of the government proposal are more precise than the proposal itself: if the government can specify how those criticisms are addressed by their proposal, I'd be satisfied. For instance, what happens if someone obtains benefits based on testimony deemed false after the benefits have been granted? The proposal is not clear. Many (many!) more criticism are available, for instance, here: http://www.redvoltaire.net/article4660.html.

"so it's not really fair to say it shows favoritism for the AUC"

And who says that it does? The proposal appears to be unfit for any illegal armed organization.

"I'm really curious what you mean when you say the FARC, 'know things they do are wrong'? How is this manifested?"

As I mentioned already, they usually conduct revolutionary trials, but also through communiqués where they plea for forgiveness, for instance, from the community of Bojayá. They ultimately blamed the government for their own actions, but they admitted, oficially, that they made a mistake. You can read through some of those communiqués in their webpage.

Again, I'm not saying that this should suffice to clean their records, but it is certainly a more promising situation than that with the AUC. And it is unlikely that the FARC will be asked to make such acknowledgments (note that it was never even suggested during the Pastrana peace talks): unlike the AUC, the FARC would probably agree on opening their records in exchange of having the government do the same.

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)