AFRICAN AMERICANS VS AFRO COLOMBIANOS

microllo says on Jul 4, 2007, 01:03:

afro colombians are more nicer the most african americans thats my opinion

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Philly says on Jul 4, 2007, 08:11:

Ugly topic, but here goes my thoughts. Gringoinbogota, I think if your people were enslaved and beating for hundreds of years, you would be walking around with a chip on your shoulder? Afro-Americans in the US have been through some really bad times compared to the Afro-Colombians. Blacks, which I am allowed to call them because I am Black are driven to success now in America. They are a threat to the US and therefore, must always prove that they are indeed intelligent. In Colombia, people view Afro-Colombians as lazy people who do not like to shower, love to drink, and do not want much out of life.(stero type) Although, Blacks are the best soccer players and the most popular singers in Colombia, they are not respected enough from what I can see. I am a educated Black man, MS in Human Resources, which qualifies me and my thoughts. I consider Blacks in Colombia far behind the Blacks in America. Education, desire, and just life. So, Until you have personally experienced racism like my people have. DO NOT TALK ABOUT A CHIP ON A SHOULDER.

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Miguel says on Jul 4, 2007, 10:03:

Estoy esperando los palabras de toneloc...

"There is nothing lower than the human race...except for the French." - Mark Twain 1878-79

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Philly says on Jul 4, 2007, 11:10:

I was very successful in the States, now I am successful here in Colombia. Not because I am blck but because I am determined and educated.Yes, blacks are very much successful in the States, but there are still barriers in the way. Blacks are still at a disadvantage in the States. Ex. anyone who has ever taken the SAT test knows it is biased by culture. Blacks walk around with chips on their shoulder because they must constantly prove themselves. Its a known proven fact. Blacks in Colombia have a long way to go. Oh, I think Bill Cosby will be on my side, we both are from Philly.

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goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 13:30:

Get over it. 200 years have passed Thanks, GIB, for sparing the rest of us.

And, somewhere... someone said... Americans are now intimidated by black success? Get a second handlebar to hand onto. What a crock of seeing things through your own colored glasses.

Americans are Freakin neurotic about life 24/7.... todos... jejeee.
Blacks are intimidated by.........THE GREAT HISPANIC MOVEMENT.

jus MH?O.

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goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 13:33:

Now, I'm not complaining (too much), but there are barriers in your way in the USA sometimes, because U R WHITE MALE.

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goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 13:34:

It's not jus blacks, Philly. EVERYONE has to prove themselves these days. It's the New Age of Accountability, brought to you by the Great Information Super Highway... Technology.

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Philly says on Jul 4, 2007, 13:41:

I actually felt your message GringoinBogota, THANK YOU. Goin_south NO COMMENT!!!!!

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sancocho1 says on Jul 4, 2007, 14:31:

look im not a racist person but i see what i observed i never been to colombia my self but have met about 4 black or afro colombians and i have also met black people from other latin countrys and there additude was really nice and they really had respect for there african haritage and didn,t blame there problems on slavery like most blacks in the us do now lets go to blacks in the us i have many black freinds that are educated and don,t blame everything on slavery but i have also met a lot of blacks that are racist towards anyone who is not african american i also met some that don,t want to work and they roband steal from people and when they get arrested they say they been discriminated against and i laugh every time i always say to my self he should have been doing something productive but the reality is that racism in america still excist but minoritys got to stop blaming every single thing on it there are barriers for blacks and latins in this country but they have go over those barriers and start doing something to change it instead of blaming your problems about something that happened 200 years ago i personally think slavery was a fucked up thing but it,s over now it,s time to progress and go beyond that and educate your self thats the only way barriers will be broken thats my 2 cents on the this matter.

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sancocho1 says on Jul 4, 2007, 14:36:

also why do most african americans don,t want anything to do with there african heritage compared to afro colombians who seem to love there african haritage look at champeta music and currulao very african sounding music

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Philly says on Jul 4, 2007, 16:22:

African Americans were robbed of their HERITAGE. All of Colombia love their heritage, its not just a Black thing. The US is a melting pot, there is no heritage. Everything that Blacks in the US do is stolen. Rock & Roll, Jazz, and now Rap music, just to name a few things off of the top of my head. Blacks in the US have done an outstanding job dealing with the short hand they were dealt but when does justice take over. Blacks dominate every major sport in the US, but how many are in front offices? Just a few years ago there were not any Black quarterbacks in the NFL,(they were supposedly not smart enough) now they dominate the league. This is a prime example why blacks must prove themselves. Blacks in Colombia do not deal with the same things. So, they are very much different then Colombians.

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sancocho1 says on Jul 4, 2007, 16:49:

blacks in the us need to stop blaming all there problems on slavery period and start reaching out and learn more about were they came from originally and where there culture came from the doors are open these days to learn more about yourself besides the slavery part.

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 4, 2007, 17:02:

So Philly; the ansestors of the blacks in Colombia didn't get to Colombia the same way the blacks got to the US? I am pretty sure they were slaves, just like in the US. I would say it is MUCH more challenging for a black in Colombia to get ahead than a black in the US. I don't think this is even arguable. Yet, the blacks that were and are my friends and even relatives in Colombia don't whine and moan about the past. They are very proud and don't consider themselves victims. You wanna get ahead, you got have the right attitude.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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sancocho1 says on Jul 4, 2007, 17:04:

i 100% agree with Robert Jorge

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sancocho1 says on Jul 4, 2007, 17:07:

and on another note i have had african american girlfreinds and afro latina girlfreinds and i really saw the diffrence in additude.

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manINred says on Jul 4, 2007, 17:16:

"You are not in Africa you are in the greatest country in the world with the greatest opportunity for you or any other race."

Philly, you're in England? :)

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goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 18:07:

The World is.... a Ghetto.

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goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 18:08:

or, should that read.... THE WORLD IS......A BARRIO

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sancocho1 says on Jul 4, 2007, 18:10:

i have to agree most blacks in latin america have other things to woory about then just racism or slavery

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microllo says on Jul 4, 2007, 18:16:

the diffrence between blacks in the us and colombia is that there brought up in a whole diffrent enviorment diffrent country with diffrent values

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peteyw says on Jul 4, 2007, 20:04:

Sancocho1,

There are so many differences on so many different levels that it would take a lot of time to outline. I have lived in Colombia now for 2 years and I'll try to outline, from my observation, just a few of the differences.

1) The first is the difference in the definition of 'black'. By this I mean that in the U.S., a person is considered 'black' if they have one drop of African blood. You have people defined as 'black' in the U.S. who range from very, very dark to extremely light with anglo features, hair etc. African Americas as a rule are proud to be considered 'black' and express this identification regardless of being 'light' or 'dark'.

In Colombia, generally a person is considered 'black' if they are dark in skin color. If the skin color is medium or light brown or beige, these Colombians do not, as a rule, identify themselves as 'Afro-Colombians' and they sometimes are not all that excited about admitting to having any 'indian' blood and being called an 'indio' either.

Examples: I'll never forget, my ex-driver getting upset at a party when a girl he was interested in explained to him that she had a boyfriend already and not interested in his advances. What made my driver most upset was when the 'boyfriend' arrived at the party and was dark. My driver outrageously said to her, "how can you like that black thing over me" and "if you'll touch his black ass, you can't be with me anyway". Now what makes this even more outrageous is the fact that my driver was medium brown skin with kinky hair and in the U.S. he would be considered 'black' everywhere; in fact, he was just a two 'shades' lighter than the 'boyfriend' who's blackness he so disliked. But he would never consider himself black or an Afro-Colombian. Those two 'shades' of color meant he was 'better than black'.

Another example. I was dating a very nice, sweet and otherwise intelligent young lady in Cartagena who once said to me " most of the problems in the world today are caused by white men like you!" I had to point out to her that this was the first time in my life I had every been considered anything but 'black'. I have very light tan skin and in the U.S., I have been called every kind of n-word when in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time. Now what makes this comment from her also so confusing is the fact that the young lady would be considered a white woman, or at least a white latina anywhere in the U.S.. But to her, I was 'white' and and she was not. (And no folks, she was not confusing 'white' with 'gringo'.)

My point is, there is a major difference in who is considered of African heritage and who is not and how the society in Colombia reflects this difference. You have to understand and appreciate this to understand the differences in the two 'Afro' cultures.

2) In the Afro-Colombian community, they relate a great deal culturally to 'African-Americans' and very positively. I have several friends in places as varied as Bogota, Cartagena, Periera and Choco who identify themselves as 'Afro-Colombian" (all dark skinned however) and prefer African-American slang ("what's up my n....?), movies, dress styles (when they can afford them) and the 'attitude', They would prefer to watch an Eddie Murphy or Denzel Washington movie than to watch a Colombian movie or a Hollywood flick starring a 'white' actor like Adam Sandler for example. Where the appreciation is not as pronounced is in the music; they overwhelmingly prefer Colombian music and Latin music in general because they really don't understand the words to today's African-American popular music (but let them hear and watch a Spanish speaking Puerto Rican reggaeton hip-hop artist emulating African-American gestures, movements and attitude and they are very into it).

3) The racism experienced by darker skinned people is far more blatant and insuferable in Colombia than in the U.S.. And the darker the skin the more acute the experience. Also, in the U.S. you have racism, but if you get caught being blatantly racist its costs you. In Colombia for the most part, people just shrug their shoulders.

Now, let me balance some of my comments with this reality. For every example of a negative situation I can give many examples of Colombians of ever possible heritage and skin color that I have met who are accepting of all peoples, caring and a joy to be around. The same with most folks in the U.S., who don't care about stereotypes and who embrace the differences that make the U.S. such a wonderful and unique place. But let's face facts, environment matters; history matters.

Microllo said it best " different environment, different values". Microllo gets it and Frank Rizzo gets it.
GringoinBogota doesn't get it and going_south doesn't get it.

Gringoinbogota, American blacks do not have a bad attitude; the attitude reflects American society as a whole. Slavery did not end 200 years ago and the effects will not go away in 2 or 3 generations. The Civil War ended legalized slavery, but not the 'institutional and legalized oppression' that continued until the 1960's. But contrary to what you may believe, social inequality and injustice are not what we Blacks sit around talking about at parties and family gatherings. We are more concerned with economic advancement, college education for our children and quality healthcare.

Goin_south, blacks are not intimidated by the "Great Hispanic Movement", its just that we have seen it all before in wave after wave of immigrants to the U.S. for hundreds of years. Blacks are much more sympathetic to your struggle than you could possibly imagine; its powerful outside forces that try to interfere with our coming together and our mutual understanding (remember the Romans "divide and conquer").

Sancocho, you only asked about the differences, the similarities are soooo many when you look close. But that's for another time and place. Peteyw

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manINred says on Jul 4, 2007, 20:30:

Wow, that was one of the most enjoyable and well-written comments I have ever seen on this website. What you wrote, Peteyw, for me reflects the reality I have seen around me, and thus I have to agree with it.

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Simon says on Jul 4, 2007, 21:05:

One difference I have noticed about being black in Colombia and the rest of Latin America as opposed to being black in the US is that in Latin America your culture comes first and your race second, but in the US it's the other way around. For example, a Colombian or Cuban black is seen as a Colombia or Cuban first and black second. In the US it's the other way around.

And what I am going to say is just strictly based on my personal observations, IMO in regards to their attitudes, US black are more aggressive and brusque whereas latin blacks are nicer. I've also heard this from friends who have visited both countries. But yes, black in the US do have more money, duh!

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 22:02:

I don't see blacks and latinas hangin together, but maybe I just don't get out where it's happening.

And, I think, in general...(politically??) that blacks in America fear that the onslaught of the latina migration might in some way cut the gains they have made as a race, in North America. jus my thoughts/observations; I sure could be wrong.

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goin_south says on Jul 4, 2007, 22:20:

PC? Politically Correct? (You mean that thing where you CANNOT CALL A DUCK, A DUCK???)

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Gomezman5 says on Jul 4, 2007, 22:46:

Simon Says: (I like that)

"One difference I have noticed about being black in Colombia and the rest of Latin America as opposed to being black in the US is that in Latin America your culture comes first and your race second, but in the US it's the other way around. For example, a Colombian or Cuban black is seen as a Colombia or Cuban first and black second. In the US it's the other way around."

How true !! I could not have said it better myself if I had tried.

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msaucey says on Jul 5, 2007, 11:31:

Okay, just thought I'd share my 2-bits....

Great comment and observation peteyw and I also like your comments Simon...

I know that the blacks in Colombia are poor..... and for the most part struggle to make a living, but even though they hold a resentment because of their situation, they don't verbally or physically attack other non-black Colombians... Their efforts are geared towards the governments inequality... They don't hold it against EVERYONE else....

Being U.S. born and raised, I know that the blacks in the U.S., still throw the 200 years of slavery card, whenever they can.... Yes, oppression continued until the 1960's, but during this same time, Latins (doesn't matter where you came from) where being deported to Mexico by the masses... So, I hate it when they throw that card at the Latins.... Because, there has been and continues to be racism against the Latins... I don't agree that the blacks seem to sympathize more with Latins...

Progress in the U.S. is forthcoming and it takes time and leadership from our communities to get to where we want to be in society.... But, sitting around comparing 2 completely different countries is not going to get us any closer....

There is current slavery taking place in the world and other injustices.... Not to mention all the racism towards blacks in Europe, especially now a days in Spain....

We must learn from our past to make the future better... If we sit in the past, we'll continue the cycle of racism....

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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toneloc24 says on Jul 5, 2007, 15:10:

Migs, Elmo, GIB, Migs, Elmo, GIB.......again with this?????

I'll keep it general. Black Colombians (what many refer to themselves - negro, Afro) and Black Americans are fine with each other. We KNOW each other very well, without a word being spoken. Maybe, just maybe, if you aren't included in that conversation, you wouldn't understand the context, nor how deep it really is. Keep fucking over those dudes and women in Cartagena and in time.....

Anyone's who gets pushed to that point, will do anything when the chips are down. How do you think FARC continues to exist? The enemy of my enemy is my...... One day, Colombia will understand that. Check out Buenaventura and what transpires there. Just keeping thinking of them as docile, obedient, happy people. You have no idea what you're dealing with.

Someone mentioned Cartagena as the port of most slaves to South America. Nah, that would be Salvador da Bahia in Brasil.

Black Americans and Latinos don't really have major issues with each other. Little BS issues, but nothing that can't be discussed. We applaud other Latino brothers and sisters for making their way. The only people who say stuff like that and believe stuff like that are those who truly are intimidated.

Seriously, who's most threatened by Latinos? Look no further than those faces pushing "immigration reform," whatever the hell that means now. It surely ain't us.

Chip on the shoulder? Hilarious. People are acting as if they or their relatives willingly acknowledged and treated Black Americans as full citizens for those 200 years. How soon things are swept under a rug. The chip remains until ALL men are treated equal. A great deal of sacrifice was experienced in order for America to live up to its words. That sacrifice has allowed many to experience the American dream, Latinos included, without the overt BS that Black Americans experienced. The few sacrificed for the many.

I'll leave this thread with some lyrics from the great Bob Marley, adapted from a speech of Emperor Haile Selassie at the UN in the 1960s. It applies to Colombia. The chip remains.

"Until the philosophy which hold one race superior
And another
Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned -
Everywhere is war -
Me say war.

That until there no longer
First class and second class citizens of any nation
Until the colour of a man's skin
Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes -
Me say war.

That until the basic human rights
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to race -
Dis a war.

That until that day
The dream of lasting peace,
World citizenship
Rule of international morality
Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never attained -
Now everywhere is war - war......."

"PBH is dead!!!!"

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toneloc24 says on Jul 5, 2007, 19:30:

No te preocupes, Morph. I ended up talking to a cool chick at the bar for a while, while waiting for her hot sister to lose some dude. Cool chick wanted to introduce me to her. LOL!!!

I looked around for you and even went to the car to see if you were there. No dice. Went back to the club and still couldn't find you. It was too late to call Elmo up inquire, I didn't see any blood anywhere, so I jumped in the car and headed back to Brooklyn.

Didn't think you were to the point of being a menace, at least from what I saw. But you were going after those stuck-up chicks in the booth. Damn bouncers. LOL!!!

"PBH is dead!!!!"

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toneloc24 says on Jul 5, 2007, 19:31:

Oh yeah, Elmo did give me an update the next day on you. So, it all turned out cool. I called him to check up on you.

"PBH is dead!!!!"

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Simon says on Jul 5, 2007, 21:20:

Speaking of Afro-Colombians.....here are three I want to marry, he he he!!


http://www.eltiempo.com/carrusel/2007-07-06/ARTICULO-WEB-NOTA_INTERIOR...

"Just an honest, decent Colombian trying to do the right thing."--Simon

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BAQ says on Jul 7, 2007, 13:58:

I got to agree with GRINGOINBOGOTA on this one. I live here on the coast where ther are far more blacks than in the interior and have NEVER seen one with i chip on his shoulder. Here, you are a COLOMBIAN, not an Afrocolombian, an AmericanColombian, an ItalianColombian, YOU ARE JUST A COLOMBIAN, white, black, brown, green, yellow, red or any shade in between.

SKIN IS SKIN, ITS ALL ABOUT ATTITUDE and the black folk get along fine here because they dont have that AFROAMERICAN attitude.

Semper Fidelis !

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Tinto (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Jul 8, 2007, 08:54:

Here's a recent series from the Miami Herald called "A Rising Voice" - I haven't read it yet but the intro mentions Nicaragua, Brazil, Honduras, Colombia and the Dominican Republic.

http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/index.html

I wanted access to health care, housing and education, but, no, I get potholes, trash and silicone tits instead. -Desi.

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aztec says on Jul 11, 2007, 08:22:

"They are a threat to the US." Philly

Your statement is flat wrong and indicates you do indeed have a chip on your shoulder. Stop blaming your problems on the "man". You are an American living in a country with unlimited opportunities. Of course it is more difficult for you but so what. With a positive attitude there is nothing you cannot achieve.

Incidentally, I am one of a white minority in a community of about 75 or 80 percent Black. We have a Black mayor, Black police chief (woman), and Black commission chairman.

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