A world apart

utopiacowboy says on Mar 24, 2007, 18:49:

Damm, dude, there's no room on PBSH for this kind of post. We're living the Colombia Fantasia here.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

andresito360 says on Mar 24, 2007, 19:53:

Those conversations depend on where you come from. Everytime I call my friends they say "we had a great time going to la finca, or yeah remember our friend ... he is doing really good. It al depends on where you live. I know all colombians are affected by the violence and the conflicts but some more than others. Plus colombians love to exagerate. This must sound familiar, No pues la situacion esta muy mala pero k podemos hacer, But if you go an visit, they all wear expensy clothes, have money to go out all weekend. If you live in another country help your family move out of where they are.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

packagegirl says on Mar 25, 2007, 00:15:

La verdad un poco exagerado este post y generaliza demasiado. No hay tanta violencia en todos los lugares de Colombia, no todos hablamos tan feo por teléfono y le echamos la culpa al gobierno de todo. Demasiado exagerado..

0 funny, 0 helpful.

larumberainglesa says on Mar 25, 2007, 00:47:

It is NOT an exaggeration I'm not saying EVERY week this conversation occurs. I would just like to share what life can be like away from the main metropolis' and for the people not lucky enough to have money, go away for weekends, know someone with a finca etc. My mother in law has been away from her house about five times and she is 76.A couple of times to Cali, once to Bogota to see her husband in hospital and twice when we invited her to stay with us in Ecuador for a month at a time. They do not have the luxury of a weekend away or understand the concept of spending on things (such as pleasure visits) which are not necessities. Once whenMy sister in law has a job selling minutes on her cell phone. In fact, I have problems getting my husband to understand the concept of a weekend away from the house having fun when he could use that time doing work around the house or actually working at his job for extra money at the weekends. And yes, we do help them a lot and are trying to get them away or in a position where they can do more. This is not a generalisation, this is MY reality and contact with Colombia. I love the place, people in his family do talk like that. They also talk about football, the price of fish, how the children are. But the other things, unfortunately for them, are a reality too. I too would love it if they knew someone with a finca but it's not likt that. We have an apartment in Cartagena that they can only use if we send them the money for the transport to get there. And then they wouldn't go anyway as they would have no spending money and would be wasting there time not getting any income coming in while they were away.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

packagegirl says on Mar 25, 2007, 01:07:

No creo usted misma dijo: A typical conversation between my husband and whichever member of his family answers the phone goes like this '....
La cosa es que este sitio trata (o eso creo yo) de resaltar las cosas buenas de Colombia, no de hablar de las mismas cosas de siempre, las cuales no necesitamos que nos recuerden a diario. No entiendo cual es el punto de este post, pero bueno, este es un sitio libre y cada cual expresa lo que quiera, pero reitero que en este sitio sobran demasiados post como este. Hay otro tipo de ejemplos que aportan más al sitio y a Colombia.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

larumberainglesa says on Mar 25, 2007, 01:28:

Mi idea era expresar una observacion que a mi me parece interesante. Eso es todo. Te puedo escribir muchas cosa buenas del pais que me gusta a mi y que a mi me parece bueno pero este post era mi observacion no mas.No soy una persona negativa, escribo lo que es la realidad y eso es todo. Claro, el punto es que este es un lugar donde las personas expresan sus observaciones, si o que? Entonces el lugar no va a estar siempre como el periodico que compre a veces en Medellin que se llama 'Good News' (un periodico en ingles donde solamente reportaron noticias buenas). Se que hay que aportar el pais y soy la primera de hablar cuando alguien critica a Colombia (en conversacion).

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 25, 2007, 01:50:

You are absolutely right, larumbera, that's the joys of living on the Pacific coast of Colombia. I think you were talking about Tumaco, but it sounded just like talking with somebody from Buenaventura. The last place the government coming with any help at all. Landslides, guerrilla/paraco turf war for drug shipping territorial rights, poverty, crime and violence where ever you look. While Uribe's government looks to the north the the paracoland of the Caribbean coast and the possibilities to "develop" that area by permitting the Trumps buy the island of Baru and auctioning off Colombian national patrimony to foreign investors the whole immense, exotic Pacific coastline sinks deeper and deeper in the guagmires of shit and blood.

Cheers (right!)

Desi



"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

larumberainglesa says on Mar 25, 2007, 02:42:

Thank you! Someone who understands where I'm coming from and the situation there. Yes, I am talking about Tumaco. I have yet to even go to the place besides being married to my husband for 7 years. No one in his family really feels happy about me going there and when my husband talked to his mum about buying a bit of land on the beach to set up a business there (for the family to run), her first reaction was 'Don't come back here' and was desperately worried that was his idea. She would rather see her son in another country than by her side in that place. Actually his brother tells me that no one kills anyone much now except for those involved in drugs. Before, if someone robbed you, shagged your wife/sister whatever, then you could expect un machetazo or la bala but nowadays you don't know who you are dealing with so everyone just ignores it and are afraid to kill because of the consequences of not knowing who they are up against. You can go out wearing your gold jewellery etc (if you are a local of course) and no one will touch you in case you are a 'duro' whereas in Cartagena they will advise you to take off any visible jewellery. And yes, the two places could be in different countries. No money goes there whatsoever.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 25, 2007, 07:15:

reading this makes me think about my idea of buying a bit of land on the coast there. Much as I like Colombia, I just got back from a trip to Rocha in Uruguay, and it had everything I saw in colombia, without the 'problems':

Gorgeous unspoiled beaches, clear blue water, friendly people (not nearly as nice as colombians though, for sure), no guerillas, paracos, narcos or whatever. crime must exist there, but sure didn't appear to. I don't recall seeing one policeman the whole trip.

Land goes for around $3500 a hectare, although beachfront in a hotspot like Jose Ignacio can be outrageously expensive.

So I understand why native colombians would want to buy land in their place of birth, but really, people should look around a bit more, I think there are smarter places to buy right now.

I was travelling with my colombian visitor, and as she looked around in amazement she asked me: 'and there are no guerillas here???'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 25, 2007, 07:36:

a photo of a beach in rocha [IMG]http://i12.tinypic.com/2sbv8r5.jpg[/IMG]

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 25, 2007, 07:44:

hmmm I'll try again

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Sam Salmon says on Mar 25, 2007, 08:23:

'and there are no guerillas here???' Nope!

They murdered everyone who had anything to do with them back in the 70's-almost everyone anyway a few are still around.

Do a search for 'Tupamaros' if you want more info.





' a la orden!'

' a la orden!'

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 25, 2007, 09:12:

some of them are still alive, living in exile here in Sweden. Watch "State of Siege" by Costa Gavras, it's all about Tupamaros or rather how they were persecuted, tortured and killed by CIA and their Uruguayan trained monkeys.

Cheers,
Desi

Sam, why don't you post some of your very nice beach shots from Nuquí?


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 25, 2007, 11:45:

looks to me like the result is paradise.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 25, 2007, 12:08:

Looks like the Uruguayans took care of things. Too bad the Scandanavians lost the glorious fighting traditions of their Viking ancestors. Those guys must be rolling over in their graves. My last name means "sea warrior" and we never forget that we are first and foremost, warriors!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 25, 2007, 12:25:

perhaps to you, gringo it loks like a paradise where you can afford to buy beachfront property that Uruguayans themselves can't. It certainly looks like that, UC, that they took care of "things" whatever it is that you mean by "things". There was a price to pay, however, and a whole generation of the brightest and best-educated Uruguayans were either killed or went into exile leaving the boots march on the streets of Montevideo for twenty more years and the greedy, uncouth generals dragging the country back to Middle Ages while their bank accounts grew in Switzwerland. There was much blood and ugliness, but now, finally, gringos and Canadians can roam the lovely little country at their pleasure and buy beachfront at ridiculous prices (for them, ridiculous)

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 25, 2007, 12:51:

Canadians are gringos. You're not much on the Middle Ages, are you? It was a glorious time for the Vikings though. Al Quaeda had nothing on them for striking terror in the hearts of people. After I saw "300" it made me wonder what happened to the Spartan Greeks and why weren't the modern Greeks more like their Spartan ancestors? Now those guys were warriors.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 25, 2007, 12:58:

so it's my fault that the Uruguayans aren't able to form a democratic, capitalist society that creates the wealth that we Canadians enjoy?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 25, 2007, 13:19:

perhaps not but what you are guilty of is addressing a serious matter with flippancy and cynicism.

No, UC, I find your view on medieval warriors pretty infantile and hollywoodized. There's no glory in killing, raping, pillaging and dying in heaps of mess.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 25, 2007, 13:27:

What can I say? I'm just a big kid. The Vikings used to think there was plenty of glory in "killing, raping, pillaging and dying in heaps of mess." The Middle Eastern peoples still have a strong appetite for brutality of all sorts while most Europeans seem to have lost it.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

manINred says on Mar 25, 2007, 13:32:

I think it is clear what the misunderstanding is of course the typical colombian family/friend conversation depends greatly on the area you are in. That's why someone from Popayan, Medellin or Cartagena might not agree with the larumbainglesa's post. I can tell you, I've lived and stayed with people from Popayan, Medellin, Cali, and the coast, and NO conversation was typically like that, with the exception of a small town along the coast. That's why if someone was to say that such talk represented typical COLOMBIAN family conversation, great disagreement would occur. It's very regional, and I can only imagine how much it would suck to be in a location where such talk IS typical. I was going to go once, but was advised against it.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

utopiacowboy says on Mar 25, 2007, 13:37:

I listen to bits and pieces of my wife's conversations with her family and they're basically the same as mine with my family - health, work, travel, etc. Pretty mundane stuff.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 25, 2007, 13:50:

I was just posting about travel and real estate in Uruguay vs Colombia.

You guys started the political stuff.

Hundreds of years ago the spanish (and portuguese and english) committed all kinds of horrors on indigenous people in LA, so does that mean I can't comment about the advantages of traveling to/investing in/living in LA without referencing 500 years of history?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 26, 2007, 05:40:

not the same thing pod and I didn't start the political stuff, I just reacted to it.
But, I still believe that countries that still have undeveloped beachfront ought to protect it from foreign investors. A single gringo buying a a little cottage fine, big hotels and developers no.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

elmodefoque says on Mar 26, 2007, 05:47:

Did the Uruguayan government do a little ethnic cleansing too?
I don't think there's one single real Uruguayan in the entire country, they are all foreigners just like in Argentina.
Those people there are all into dictatorship.

over 5 million colombianos in USA and only 27 barranquilleros, i'm one.Curramba, el mejor vividero del mundo!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 26, 2007, 06:11:

Yeah, they surely did Both Uruguay and Argentina were made milk-white. The few blacks that were left in Argentina were placed in the front line in the battles.
Uruguay back in the sixties was having a very interesting period of growth and democracy which the generals disliked immensily and everybody who didn't agree was killed if they didn't escape. The good ole CIA was very actively involved there just like it was in Chile when Allende was elected the president.

Cheers,
Desi


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

aztec says on Mar 26, 2007, 06:27:

tortured and killed by CIA Such deep seated resentment about the USA!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 26, 2007, 06:34:

No aztec only deep-seated resentment about torture, killing and CIA involvement and training the goons in South America to do their dirty work. Never about USA.

Cheers,
Desi


"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 26, 2007, 07:05:

so you support the idea of legally discriminating against foreignors?

Only when it suits your own views I am sure. If a foreignor was prevented from buying beachfront property in Canada (germans are buying up much of the east coast BTW), we'd be called ignorant racists.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 26, 2007, 09:04:

I wouldn't put it in those words, pod I 'm very much an idealist and believe in the ancient Scandinavian everyman's right to walk the forests, camp by the lakes, pick berries and mushrooms anywhere, understanding that even if that particular piece of land is privately owned it's still open to be enjoyed by everybody; this right is also a shared responsibility not to destry, carry your garbage with you, not to bother the wildlife and not to harm living trees and bushes beyond an immediate need for perhaps, tent pegs or make a small cookfire.

Yes, I'd like to limit the rights of ownership to all waterfront property to the nationals of that country. It's not because I "hate" foreigners of any nationality, but because I'd like to protect the great, wonderful nature from greed and exploitation.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 26, 2007, 09:20:

ahhh that's a different argument desi and one I have constantly with my ex from the czech republic (she was essentially a communist, her dad was an official in the party even).

I sort of agree with you. I think the beachfront should be common property (although that brings up the problem of who will look after it?) but I also think the land just behind that strip of beach should be private. So there can be beach houses or hotels, but anyone can walk (or play, sit, suntan, bbq etc.) in front of these places.

I admire and appreciate nature's work as much as anyone, but I also admire the work that humans do too, and don't see all buildings as ugly intrusions, but rather as enhancements to nature. (I am a wannabe architect after all.)

I don't 'get' the idea that the best places are devoid of signs of human life.

Some people want a deserted beach with no one and nothing. I prefer a beach with a well designed, appropriately sized, cool cafe/restaurant where I can buy a too expensive but very delicious frozen daiquiri to sip as I watch the sun go down.

(BTW, that place I just described is called la huella in Jose Ignacio. I wouldn't normally tell people about such a great discovery, but it's already very well known, damn.)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 26, 2007, 10:11:

Found it! http://english.martinvarsavsky.net/general/parador-la-huella-in-jose-ignacio-uruguay-the-best-seaside-restaurant-in-the-world.html

There's a really nice video of the restaurant on that page.

http://www.paradorlahuella.com/

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 26, 2007, 10:23:

cool site, now isn't that better than a deserted beach? (I know your answer already, :))

I dunno about 'best seaside restaurant in the world' but it was damn good. They had this goat cheese-fried onion tarta that was to die for. Great bottle of cold white wine was I think $20 (I am getting confused on prices as I had to translate every uruguayan price into USD, Argy pesos, and COP for my visitor).

And anyway, the deserted beaches are just a few miles down the road.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

podborski says on Mar 26, 2007, 10:28:

anyone know of any places like this in colombia? a friend mentioned to me a place in parque tayrona?

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 26, 2007, 10:40:

A seaside hotel or inn, a cozy restaurant, a café, a bar with cold drinks in tall glasses; it's all GOOD, podborsky, as long as it's owned and run by the locals, retaining the soul and the spirit of that particular spot on this globe. That is so very different from huge, concrete tourist traps like the kind that "decorate" the beachfront in Bocagrande, or Cancun or Miami Beach or any tourisrt resort where the big chains have established themselves.

The fisher village of Taganga is something similar in Colombia. Bahía Solano on the Pacific has also small ecolodges and modest tourist faclities. There's also a place near the Panamanian border, I forgot the name, plus Coveñas on the Caribbean side.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang van Goethe

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

0 funny, 0 helpful.