A SUSTAINABLE CITY. PBS SERIES ABOUT BOGOTA AS NARRATED BY BRAD PITT

morphus says on Feb 9, 2008, 14:42:

Brad Pitt? His Name gets mentioned on here a lot.

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slguy says on Feb 9, 2008, 15:20:

huskie, that may be one of the best, most interesting links I've ever seen on PBH.

Thanks a BUNCH for sharing that!

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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LDW says on Feb 9, 2008, 16:13:

Penalosa should get the Nobel Peace Prize.

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slguy says on Feb 9, 2008, 16:45:

"Penalosa should get the Nobel Peace Prize."

I tend to agree. What's he doing now, anyway?

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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adrimm says on Feb 9, 2008, 16:55:

He ran for mayor again in Bogota this past fall but (unfortunately) was beat out by Moreno.

He's heavily involved in planning academia, NGOs, and the promotion of sustainable development all over the world. Google his name with "Project for Public Spaces", Streetsblog and "Ode".

He was also one of the plenary speakers at the massive UN Habitat/ World Urban Forum conference in Canada - http://www4.insinc.com/wuf3-fum3/ Click on the Thursday plenary and scroll to the 30 minutes mark - it's a great talk.. very inspiring.

A few interesting clips:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmyQgeHKkuI
http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/interview-with-enrique-penalosa-lo...
http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/ciclovia/
http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/bus-rapid-transit-bogota/

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slguy says on Feb 9, 2008, 16:57:

Business interests banded together to beat him in this last election? I'm stunned he got beaten....

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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adrimm says on Feb 9, 2008, 17:07:

No he's actually (believe it or not) centrist on the local government scheme.. the further- Ieft won out.... one of their campaign promises was a metro but frankly I was also very surprised they won - personally slightly suspicious. Although I suppose he was probably squeezed out from both the right and the left.

Ah here is a more direct link to the WUF link: he's awesome. I think what he has done offer great lessons for developed and developing cities:

http://www4.insinc.com/wuf3-fum3/players/day4event1/videoEN_day4event1...

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slguy says on Feb 9, 2008, 17:47:

Thanks, all. I'm intrigued by the guy. I've been a builder/developer nearly all my life, and the premises he works from, "sustainable urbanism"? for lack of a better term, fascinate me. I reeally appreciate all the help.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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lpdiver says on Feb 9, 2008, 17:49:

If sustainable urbanism intrigues you, read up on Buckminster Fuller. He is or was pretty much the Godfather of "sustainable urbanism" although he approached it from a more diverse viewpoint.

T

"cook some rice!"

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Mr. Hollywood says on Feb 9, 2008, 17:51:

Brad Pitt? He's working off the bad karma from Mr. & Mrs. Smith?

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slguy says on Feb 9, 2008, 18:11:

he's working his ass off trying to help in Nawlins, where he, his lady, and their brood now live.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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adrimm says on Feb 9, 2008, 19:22:

http://www.newurbanism.org/
http://www.smartgrowth.org/about/default.asp

Lots of info there.

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Lcacique says on Feb 9, 2008, 21:25:

Excellent stuff!!!

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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tejasmarcos says on Feb 10, 2008, 06:30:

hmmmm. got stuck at 16.45 and would not play anymore. i will try again later. pbs does some great work.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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sloopskipper says on Feb 10, 2008, 06:42:

It looked like a great video, but also hung for me, bummer.

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Lcacique says on Feb 10, 2008, 10:36:

I just added it to my myspace page and I'd love to get a copy of it on DVD if it wasn't $25 for a half hour program.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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LDW says on Feb 10, 2008, 10:40:

I checked out all the videos for which links have been given in this thread. I have not been to Bogota for years (I go mostly to Armenia and Valle del Cauca). When I go to those places, I usually just relax, keep my mouth shut, and not ask a lot of questions.

Nobody had told me about the changes in Bogota (not even our relatives who live there). If the changes are as positive as they are made out to be in this thread, why are they not bragging about it more?

What this all suggests to me is that Bogota would have to be one's first choice of a city in Colombia. Is it being promoted as a retirement destination on the basis of its low living cost, cool (not cold) climate, and liveability?

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adrimm says on Feb 10, 2008, 11:21:

I'm not sure.. I don't think people there realise how unique many of the changes made in the city are in the world scheme... or how incredibly fast many of them have happened. I took a journal article with me as well as some segments from this: http://www.itdp.org/index.php/microsite/brt_planning_guide/ and my family was absolutely amazed. They have by and large taken the changes for granted.

Bogota as a first choice... I don't know. It depends what people want. Many other cities in Colombia are copying things that Bogota has done, and Bogota still remains a masssive city of over 7 million, with a cooler climate than most.

Overall, despite what has been accomplished I don't think that the sustainable city concept has really hit the mainstream there...... or for that matter some people in the planning/permit offices - Through media and connections Colombia is very heavily influenced by North America, my guess is that the "Wonder-years" burbia is as coveted there as it has been in North America.

For instance, they are still allowng massive suburban malls that everyone has to drive to... malls are desirable, to be shown off "we have malls as nice as those in North America". They are allowing large sprawling residential highrise complexes that have no transit and few amenities nearby... and the market snaps them up.

Also, while Bogota can be remarkably livable, it really depends on *where* one chooses to live within the city. You can live somewhere where the ammenities, transit, etc is at your feet the second you go to street level..or you can live in highrise suburbia.

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juli says on Feb 10, 2008, 14:12:

Among many things Brad Pitt is a great actor

CEO Fajardo´s Fan Club, Medellín, Colombia

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slguy says on Feb 10, 2008, 14:44:

Just because I happen to look EXACTLY LIKE Brad Pitt, I too think he's a great human being. ;)

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Monpirri says on Feb 10, 2008, 14:55:

Ok Slguy you are a good actor too, just like your clone.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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slguy says on Feb 10, 2008, 15:00:

I'm significantly more full of crap than he is, sadly, though.

Before you throw me out, make sure I pay my bar tab

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Lcacique says on Feb 10, 2008, 16:10:

LDW: It is not often that the people of a city will brag about such changes. What is important is that they have made an improvement in a way that did not drive the city deeper into debt. There is also something liberating about doing something for yourself instead of relying on outsiders to come and tell you what to do. As Peñalosa says at the end of the documentary, Bogotá should not be considered a model (what a wise and humble statement from a man that did something beautiful for the city yet recognizes that there is still a lot of work to be done). What one hopes is that this will inspire more creative approaches that consider the whole of Bogotá instead of just those at the top which is where most development is focused. Now somebody needs to water the seed!

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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Simon says on Feb 10, 2008, 16:13:

I'm glad Brad Pitt is now a little more informed about the real Bogota, and not the shameful version of it portrayed in 'Mr and Mrs Smith!

HERE'S SIMON!!!!

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MaFe says on Feb 10, 2008, 17:18:

This is a greta film! Thank you for sharing!

"All human actions have one or more of these seven causes: chance, nature, compulsions, habit, reason, passion, desire. "-Aristotle

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Monpirri says on Feb 10, 2008, 18:21:

I will vote for Mr. Enrique Peñalosa if he runs for President.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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Lisa Zee says on Feb 10, 2008, 18:33:

This is fascinating and informative, I had no idea what "transmilenio" meant. This is why I like PBH. Thanks

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Lcacique says on Feb 10, 2008, 19:35:

It's kind of funny, but the whole time I was in Bogotá my friend's family always called it Trans-muy-lleno.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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christobeldawg says on Feb 10, 2008, 19:36:

amazing story, still much work to be done.

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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christobeldawg says on Feb 10, 2008, 19:42:

http://www.s-dev.org/en/decouvrir/villes/villes.php?idContent=80

interesting article on Bogota and the bike paths

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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droble77 says on Feb 10, 2008, 21:35:

I was very impressed with the TM in my trip to Bogota but this city still has massive trancones (traffic jams) almost every single day.

I think it has to do at least partly with it's huge footprint and the way the city is laid out. Adrimm makes some very good points about the suburban type malls and high-rise complexes.

So everyone complains about the trancones and yet people (and businesses) continue to make decisions that make the phenomena worse.

But you have to give credit that the TM, "pico-placa," and some other decisions Peñalosa and his successors are making are at least keeping total insanity from taking over.

Still, it looks like Bogota is evolving into a poorer version of Tokyo. A vibrant mega-city but with HUGE commute times for its inhabitants. And mind you, that's even with Tokyo's very advanced transit systems.

It's just the nature of the beast of living in large, dense cities. A successful transit system will inevitably be stretched to its very limits to the point that people hate it, but still use it of course. :)

Here in NYC, the subway system is so old it's a miracle how it's maintained. Every weekend, the system gets patched up to prepare for the work week and starting at Saturday midnight, the repair process starts all over again. . .

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Lcacique says on Feb 11, 2008, 15:12:

Cities are never built with foresight that stretches far enough into the future to predict such problems. Imagine if a city like Bogotá would have constructed a few dozen multi-floored parking structures and wider roads several decades ago. First, where would the money come from at that time? Second, it would have been a political disaster because at the time they would not have gotten the use that they do today. In addition, it would have been hard to predict how the continuing conflict and increasing poverty in rural areas would impact the city of Bogotá. Who could have guessed the number of displaced persons that would flood the city over the end of the 20th century?

Transmilenio may be stretched to its limits by increased demands someday but it does not pose the same problems as the subway system of NY. One can increase service of TM easier than that of the subway system. Also, you don't have the same kinds of repair work as those that are required when you are operating underground.

Bogotá is a big city and it has big city problems. That is not a shock. TM and the other programs that Peñalosa implemented are not a remedy, but they certainly make those problems less of a nuisance. Creative thinking, like that utilized by Peñalosa and company, provides the potential to further such strides in making Bogotá a more liveable city. Something as simple as planting trees and building parks go a long way in making a city more desireable. I'm blessed to live in the NW where people think along the same line. Portland has an excellent transit system, beautiful city parks, and bike trails that run through a chunk of the city. Guess what? It continually ranks as one of the best cities to live in in the US, but don't tell anyone!

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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adrimm says on Feb 11, 2008, 18:55:

droble - I agree the layout doesn't help - it keeps getting longer, and now is spreading thinly west into the savannah. They should concentrate on renewal in the central area, and making the westward pull as human-scale, and mixed use as possible.

Lcacique, I don't think roads would have been the answer- Bogota is too densely populated. It has been for a long time, and is only starting to thin out as cars became more common. Metro Bogota has over 8,000 people per km2, the region, 4,000 people per km2 - there could never be enough roadspace. Foresight would have been taking a page from London, Paris or New York and constructing extensive metro connections at the time they started taking the streetcars out of Bogota (1950s?).

Also, tying land use to transit matters alot (part of why Portland works so well - I i totally agree wiht you on that - is something called TOD Transit Oriented Development). This is something that Bogota clearly hasen't been able to do.

Also, despite its excellent trail network Bogota doesn't yet have much of a commuter bike culture. Showing up with a helmet tucked under your arm just isn't as cool there as it is elsewhere.

Personally I think that TransMilenio is remarkable not only becuase it gave the city a return to mass transportation (post streetcars of the 50s), but demonstrates to the world a solid transit system that is cost effective. I see alot of potential for similar systems in transit-poor mid sized North American cities that can't afford rail.

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Lcacique says on Feb 11, 2008, 21:24:

Adrimm:

I agree. I was not proposing that building wider roads would have been a solution to Bogotá's traffic issues. As you point out, the metro area is stacked with people, not to mention there is no space to widen most of the roads. I wasn't very clear and I can see why you thought I was suggesting that...sorry. My point had more to do with the fact that cities are rarely built by people who are thinking about how things are going to be in thirty or forty years. They are generally developed by near-sighted individuals. You're right about the bike culture comment as well, but it is great that the space is used by walkers and or children kicking a ball around, etc.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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christobeldawg says on Feb 11, 2008, 21:36:

if leading urban and regional planners could get together, and think outside the box, things could continue to get better and better. I think they have to be those that are not only trained, but need to be those that also care deeply for the people of the city. That intangible is often forgotten, and is always the necessary other ingredient to all of the controlled sustainable development studiesl

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Lcacique says on Feb 12, 2008, 08:56:

cristobeldawg: Great point.

Rubito: I like that about Bogotá as well.

Hoy se nota en la floresta un ambiente de alegría. ¡Y el rumor de ranchería es mas dulce y sabe a fiesta!

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adrimm says on Feb 12, 2008, 19:05:

ahhh - you are only too correct Lcacique! if only we could move things around like lego. What fun it would be! :)

Rubs , you know I think that Bogota is generating two types of suburbs

Suburb 1) single use residential-only enclaves of detached SFDs, driving distance from all ammenities (for the very very rich), like what we know and call suburbia in North America

Suburb 2) highrise suburbia - consecutive blocks of single-use, residential-only highrise complexes/conjuntos, also driving distance from all ammenities that residents might use. Definitely higher density than Suburb one, but almost totally singular in use.

Right now, the example would be Salitre. Only one way in and out of the many full-block complexes, few places for pedestrians to go anyhow, no schools, no decent sized grocery stores an easy stroll away (maybe a 2 km risk-your-life-forget-taking-a-baby-in-the-stroller-crossing-that-road walk to Gran Estacion), no offices right there. Lovely sidewalks, inconvenient crossings to get to the main commerce (mall), no people, except maybe on Sunday when they go out to Ave El Dorado for Cyclovia. Everyone drives.

This is now, I don;t know what the master plan for Salitre is - who knows maybe if they surround the current Salitre with a couple of blocks of mixed use residential, shops and business offices, it might change. but for now, as far as I am concerned Salitre is a highrise suburb.

Thing that kills me is that Salitre could have been so awesome. Imagine if they had built strip of something Zona Rosa-ish (think more restuarants, clothes shops, cafes than pubs/clubs/hotels - maybe a pedestrian zone, some small office suites on second floors), every 2 blocks, along one of the four faces of the each one block conjunto/complex? It could be 2 to 3 storeys tall podiums with set back residential towers. You would still have the quiet units on the interior couryard and on the other 3 faces. One of the central E-W roads could become TM & pedestrian zone -only, like the Eje Ambiental.

Christeldawg -- omg yes! And with people already accustomed to living in buildings, many cities in Colombia have huge potential for new neighbourhoods to become far more complete communities from day one.

.

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msaucey says on Feb 15, 2008, 11:35:

I agree... My aunt was thinking about selling her apartment in Salitre and getting another one a few blocks away..... They were asking for $500M, she figured there was absolutely nothing wrong with hers... The other one was a bit bigger, but the current one is about 98m... Besides, she's on the coast most of the time anyway...

I like the Thursday night gathering in Salitre by the bridge where they tell stories...

The trouble about trying to make yourself stupider than you really are is that you very often succeed. - CS Lewis

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LDW says on Feb 17, 2008, 10:19:

I have reflected on what I have written above. What Penalosa has done is remarkable, and I stand by my comment that the guy should get the Nobel Peace Prize. His policies appear to have made an unliveable city more liveable. However, as I mentioned, I have not been to Bogota for years, and although I might go there again, I doubt that I would spend much time there. In the final analysis, a big city is still a big city. The largest city I like to spend any time in while I am there is Armenia, which because of its Medellin-like climate, is my favorite city. It's not much of a drive to get to small places like Calarca, Filandia, etc.. We have also become very accustomed to small town life in Canada. After so many years in a small town, both my wife and I find the noise and congestion of a big city (anywhere!!!) to be intolerable.

We are both in our 60's now. Starting next year, we will be spending Canada's winter months in Armenia and its environs.

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