a new ¨viewpoint¨

caulfield2 says on Jan 31, 2006, 14:03:

What is the conversation was What if the conversation was about male prostitution, lol? My acquaintance from England, a quite handsome, blonde late 20´s-early 30´s sort and a ¨venture capitalist¨ to boot, has been offered a few opportunities to be taken care of by independently wealthy doctoras in Medellin and Bogota.

In all seriousness, when there are just as many of these in Colombia, then you will start to see some progress. It will mean there is more equity in the pay-scale than previously existed.

Most people are surprised to learn that the gap between women and men in terms of wage earning is MUCH wider than between whites and blacks or whites and Hispanics in the United States.

Almost every woman I know down here is subjected to whistles and cat-calls and most are hit on by their boss, certainly crossing the line into what would be considered sexual harrassment in the US.

So there won´t be a need for prostitution when women can find good, high paying jobs....nor will the best and brightest females flee for the bigger cities or other countries where they can earn more income than in Colombia.

Maybe the thread would be better if we tried to find a solution to the problem that didn´t involve the Gates Foundation giving grants to every Colombian sex worker so they could attend a university for free...because education alone is not the answer if there are not enough available, high intellect-critical thinking skills jobs.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Crazy4Cali says on Jan 31, 2006, 14:13:

Was there a question in there? ...or is this just a rant?

As long as there are "buyers" there will be "sellers." The demographics may change with the economic opportunities but the market will not disappear.

If you want to know what motivates a woman into prostitution go and talk to some of them and find out directly rather than from some dubious 2nd- or 3rd-hand source. If they keep coming up to you, then take the opportunity to do some research rather then just shooing them away.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Jan 31, 2006, 14:24:

Well, informal, qualitative questions have come up with the following, not surprising conclusions...

1) Was forced into it by family or local gang
2) Wanted to take care of a sick family member
3) Had to drop out of school and had no other options
4) Kidnapped from another city
5) Better than working for $2-5 mil per hour
6) Opportunity to save for car or moto, house, vacation, clothing, plastic surgery...INDEPENDENCE from men, lol
7) Modelling and acting opportunities did not work out, and better money than waitressing
8) Saving money for either children or college
9) Esposo-novio-exnovio abandoned and no place to stay, no relatives

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caslug says on Jan 31, 2006, 14:42:

Caufield, you make it seem that.. this stuff is shocking news(underage relationship, prostitution, crime, etc.,) for people on the board. It's not, anyone(as you well know) that spent enough time in COL is going to know about it. I think it does benefit the forum public to know about crime situation in COL. Knowing about prostitution is NOT a public benefit. The guys that use it, know about and where to find it, AND they're NOT going to change their mind no matter how many social economic stories you trot out. WHile people that DONT want to see it, DONT have to, and DONT use it. So your social theories falls on deaf ears of both sides. So why do it.

As for why do people go into prostitution in COL, it's the SAME reason people go into IN OTHER countries. COL social problems is NOT UNIQUE to COL, it's the SAME problems that ALL countries have. Of course, NOT in the same degree or intensity.

BTW, i do have these types of relationship/prostituion/crime conversation with my friends in the US AND COL, BUT i dont post it on this forum, because I know many folks will find it offensive. SO I save these discussion offline with the people that ARE NOT OFFEND by it.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

RUV says on Jan 31, 2006, 15:00:

This post still here I am suprise. Do not get me wrong, I like reading your post. I sometimes have to past it to a word document and read it later, because I know it will be deleted.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Jan 31, 2006, 15:33:

Everbody is always going to be offended about something "Me thinks" That as long as the remarks are not obviously offensive to any one group of people, people should not be so hypersensitive about what is written here.

So if someone wants to talk about the virutes or lack of them and how it affaects Colombian society as a whole, who cares?

There are hundreds if not thousands of other threads for people to post on. If people are offended by one or two threads because it addressed the issue of prostitution in Colombia, they don't have to participate in it. Whether people like it or not, prostitution is a huge enterprise in Colombia,and the dollar (mostly)/ pesos that get recylcled into the Colombian economy cannot be summarily dismissed as inconsequential. Therefore, I think the moderators, as well as Peter should be somewhat more tolerant about the issue. Some women may be intolerant as to this subject area. Well, some people also may be intolerant when people start asking about Gay establishments and gay life in Colombia. There are still many people that think that being gay is an inappropriate life style and therefore they are offended as well. I think that one area should not be given preference over another. If someone wants to address the issue of prostitution in Colombia, they should be allowed to do so. The same goes if someone wants to address the issue of gay life in Colombia for that matter

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Rubiazo says on Jan 31, 2006, 15:51:

I don't give a flying fuck who it offends Why do people travel to Colombia just to have sex for money?

1) It's cheaper even after the travel expenses.
2) It's not illegal down there. Your name will not wind up published in the paper. No police will impound your car.
3) The local diet is better down there so women are in better shape. Men are in better shape too I guess, as far as I'm told. I don't think my opinion on men's level of sexual attractiveness has much value!!
4) You are in a different country so you don't have to worry about social stigma.

Why do women sell their bodies?

Could be a number of reasons, but considering the social stigma attached to it, you'd have to be a complete idiot to take a girl's response at face value!

Maybe a better question would be 'why does anybody care in the first place'? I think we need to stop thinking of everything even remotely fun as a social 'problem' that needs to be 'fixed'. Just live and let live!! I'd start worrying about it when one or more of the participants in a sex act is non-consensual!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

seammckenna126 says on Jan 31, 2006, 15:52:

I agree with Gomezman...but I agree with the general argument from gomezman, but we also need to respect the general rules of Peter's site wether people think they are fair or unfair...that's beside the point. If I was to come into someone's house then I would need to respect his rules. IMHO

0 funny, 0 helpful.

viewpoint says on Jan 31, 2006, 16:57:

caulfield2 Well I think the real difference between you and me is the fact that your relationships with women begin, center and end around sex so a prostitute satisfies your needs while I am looking for something more deeper than that in a relationship with a woman.

You ask what I am looking for in Colombia ? I came to Medellin, Colombia to meet a woman seven years ago (In March) and fell in love with the city (and the woman). I never left, I stayed and bought a home, a car and met many people. I have never been able to live full time in Medellin but I try to spend as much time as my schedule will allow.

I guess in my advanced age I have become a good judge of people's character having employed thousands of people in my lifetime. I think that you and I may have come to Colombia for different reasons and are looking in different places for different answers in our relationships with Colombian people.

I came to Colombia to find peace rather than to find a peice.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

poco says on Jan 31, 2006, 17:04:

Getting Hosed In Colombia
This seems like an appropriate thread,,, Those seeking a Colombian hose job then by all means attend an outdoor concert on a sunny day,, Getting hosed seems to be the norm,, guess this gives the fire department something to do while waiting for a brick home to catch fire?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bufalo says on Jan 31, 2006, 17:09:

I agree as well with gozeman and most of what rubiazo said. I don't believe that all the prostis, in colombia or wherever are there consensually. I happen to know of some prostis, no I haven't slept with them, here in Colombia. The number of them that started at age 13 or younger is staggering. Some were "lent" to their fathers' friends for a small fee, others were sexually abused by older men, usually in the family, and a lot were really underage, say 15 and their stupid parents didn't say dick when some old geezer started putting the moves on her. I'm about to do a ballistic post on this in a couple days, a situation is brewing here - yet another ignorant family I have dealings with. Have to see what happens.
I think people on this site should understand that if there is so much prostitution here, then people are going to talk about it. As long as no one gives directions for the geezers to find nubiles, and the conversation has a point, say understanding an aspect of a culture, then what is the problem.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Jan 31, 2006, 20:12:

Wow.... I don't ever remember having so many people agree with what I posted. I'm just not used to it. I'm honred.

Just one thing seaMckenna, while it is Peter's site and we need to abide by his rules. In the time I have been here, I have found that Peter does not like to impose his will too often. This is clearly HIS board, but Peter is very tolerant. At the same time, I have noticed that before Peter acts, he obsrves and tries to get a feel for the climate out here. I think (I hope) that there are people that can deal (debate) with the issue of prostitution in Colombia,and discuss it in a manner that addresses how it impacts society, women, and the family, without discussing "the going rate" in some locale. Why the issue of rate may come up, I don't think it is coming up for the purpose of letting people know where to go for the best deal, but rather it is being discussed in the context of how other socio economic issues need addressing to make Colombia a better Colombia.

Women engage in prostitution throughout Colombia for exactly the same reason that many, hundreds or perhaps thousands a year apply for a US visa, come to the US, and over stay their welcome for the purpose of achieving a better standard of living. That said, it should be obvious to all that discussions related to prostitution should not be just summarily prohibited because some women are hypersensitive.

In closing, the fact that this thread has gone this far, and thankfully has not been deleted, is clearly indicative of the fact that there are issues to be discussed. And for the women who have not posted, they have not done so because they have chosen not to do so,and I am certain that they are not suffering any ill affects to the posts that have been made so far.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 31, 2006, 20:16:

Whatever......... This post from caulfield2 ought not to be locked but deleted, as well as these others

Too many foreigners in Colombia
Too many colombians outside Colombia

Caulfied2 could just PM viewpoint in order to questining him.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bufalo says on Jan 31, 2006, 20:49:

Deleted? Locked? Wow, burn some books while your at it. I can sometimes understand locking some postings but deleting them might be a bit too much. Caulfield2's posting before this was deleted after I responded. I don't know how far after, but I would like to see it and read it through. Maybe someone didn't agree with what I said or something. Did I maybe create the ruckus (I don't think so, but I'd like to know if I did)? I'd rather talk it out with them then have them pissed off or something. Can't do that now because it doesn't exist.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Wastelandlive says on Jan 31, 2006, 20:49:

Well, in the spirit of telling Peter... ... what our opinions are - while understanding that at the end of the day, he pays for the bandwidth - I'd like to add that I'm with G5.

I'd like to see a little less of the nanny-boo-boo chastising, locking and deleting threads from said monitors.

It's the internet.
It's rough and tumble.

I think the "you might offend the girls" argument is particularly lame. There are no captive audiences here, and everybody is free to choose which threads to follow.

To those ladies who have errupted with petulant declarations of, "I'm leaving!" all I can say is that there is little more pathetic than affected outrage on the internet. I mean really... there are many threads, many SITES that I won't bother reading. Do I really need to announce that decision on the way out the door? Am I that important? Will they miss me?

Please.

At the end of the day, this site, even at its rock bottom worst, doesn't BEGIN to approach some of the other Colombia forums in their crudeness. I think it would survive a little less meddling.

Why IS prostitution a taboo subject?
Why DOES webmanco want to delete threads? Who's forcing him to read them?

Just MHO.

Wasteland

0 funny, 0 helpful.

bufalo says on Jan 31, 2006, 20:56:

not trying to attack webmanco or anything, but all you really did is just provide direct links to posts that you feel are offensive enough to be deleted. If you don't like them, they shouldn't have been highlighted. I read them and don't find them offensive.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Jan 31, 2006, 21:09:

don´t do any good to any country, or to PBH I am open to debates, but centainly I don´t see any use of brigning up facts true or not true about any country, I could post links related to crimes, prostitution, or tell first hand negative experiences in other countries, or by hearsay.

It is not my style, as it has being mention before, this site is viewed by many internet users and debating negative aspects of any country it is not a learning experiece since it does not fix problems.

This post and the one´s I mentioned before where originated by a post from a "new user" well it could be an old user with a new handle, any way to get mad at a post from a "new user" is not smart.

I am a man of few words, I post only when I consider it necesary, no one forces me to read this kind of post, but IMHO, the way this subjects are debated don´t do any good to any country, or to PBH for that matter.

If you don´t have anything good to say about your neighbor don´t say anything.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Jan 31, 2006, 21:30:

Webmanco Hey....this idea of locking or deleting threads becasue they venture into subject areas that you or someone else might find objectionable is absurd. Did you ever hear of the slippery slope affect? Good grief man, many women don't like to see certain mens magazines on the news rack in the store. Well, guess what, they don't pick them up, but they hardly can say that they are offended by them because of their mere presense.

The same can be said of yourself. Just as you don't read or participate in threads whose subject is not of interest to you, you don't need to participate in threads that YOU deem not worthy of discussion. But that does not mean that the subject in and of itself is not worthy of discussion.

In summary, you personally have no right to be offended by any subject here unless it is a personal attack on you i.e., an attack on your nationality, an attack on your ethnicity, or an attack on your religion. Apart from those areas, anything should be considered fair game as long as the issue is debated ..... in good taste..(which often is not the case....but we're kind of used to that on PBH)

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Albatross says on Feb 1, 2006, 04:30:

WasteLand... "To those ladies who have errupted with petulant declarations of, "I'm leaving!" all I can say is that there is little more pathetic than affected outrage on the internet. I mean really... Do I really need to announce that decision on the way out the door? Am I that important? Will they miss me?"

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who finds their self-important proclamations laughable. Let them take their offense elsewhere.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Albatross says on Feb 1, 2006, 04:37:

The Worlds Oldest Profession Question:
If women are so offended by prostitution, then why do they do it ?

Answer:
The MONEY !!!

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Albatross says on Feb 1, 2006, 05:05:

No Shit, Sherlock... And as for the argument; "If women could easily get high-paying jobs, they would give up prostitution"... So what... there are BILLIONS of people in Asia, Africa, Europe, North, Central and South America who would give up their jobs in a New York minute if they had the money.

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

0 funny, 0 helpful.

webmanco says on Feb 1, 2006, 05:16:

Gomezman5 The subject "prostitution" came out because someone refered people from North America big and fat. "Not a good taste", and yes I do believe somehow in the replies before edited there were attacks on a nation and on an ethnicity.

The way the subject was addresed was not good, original post can´t be edited but their replies do. So if you write in respose of what you read last night maybe you did no see original replies.

I am not offended but do want PBH to be a helping site and not a bashing one, where if someone feels offended for the words big and fat, and among the replies come out the oldest profession in the world, then it stops being a debate and becomes a dispute, that won´t help any country or PBH visitors.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Feb 1, 2006, 05:39:

Well I think the real difference between you and me is the fact that your relationships with women begin, center and end around sex so a prostitute satisfies your needs while I am looking for something more deeper than that in a relationship with a woman.

You ask what I am looking for in Colombia ? I came to Medellin, Colombia to meet a woman seven years ago (In March) and fell in love with the city (and the woman). I never left, I stayed and bought a home, a car and met many people. I have never been able to live full time in Medellin but I try to spend as much time as my schedule will allow.

I guess in my advanced age I have become a good judge of people's character having employed thousands of people in my lifetime. I think that you and I may have come to Colombia for different reasons and are looking in different places for different answers in our relationships with Colombian people.

I came to Colombia to find peace rather than to find a peice.


I think the real problem is that you cannot avoid making a correlation between talking about a subject and actively participating in aforementioned subject in ¨real life.¨ Not that it is any of your business, but I haven´t had sex in six months, but then again, I guess it depends on what you define sex as...at any rate, when you are 36 years old, it is no longer the single most important thing in your life. Yes, I could have sex with a different woman every night, IF I WANTED TO. But just because something is possible does not mean it is correct or beneficial for you as a human being.

In June and July, I was with 8-10 different women (amigas con derechos as they say) and I had a great time, but I quickly realized that this was an empty experience, and that half the women I met were more interested in what I could do for them, rather than who I was. I still believe it is usually a good idea to at least think you might love the person you plan to sleep with, because the idea of conquering women you do not care at all about leaves most men feeling even lonelier...I know quite a few that have become borderline suicidal, because they are so up and down due to their repetitive and cyclical drinking, drugging and a different woman every night lifestyle.

There is no way any woman you ever met here can COMPLETELY forget that you are an American and the ancillary benefits that go along with that, no matter how much you want to believe it.

Gee...I attended university for 9 years, taught psychology and sociology, have two Masters´ degrees...does that make me an expert on anything? Not really...the more you know, the more you realize you do not know anything. I am sure you are such a good person you never thought about having a physical or romantic relationship with the woman you probably fell in love with in the first 10 seconds, lol. Then you rationalized not wanting to sleep with her as being respectful.

I am glad you didn´t employ me, I would prefer my employer spell piece correctly. And, by the way, people that have supervised hundreds or thousands or millions or employees are usually the worst to have relationships with, because they want to control every aspect and detail, due to the fact that they are used to having all the power at work, they want the same thing at home.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Feb 1, 2006, 07:19:

Caulfield2...... a most impressive post!!

0 funny, 0 helpful.

caulfield2 says on Feb 1, 2006, 07:38:

Viewpoint,

Maybe I should not have picked on you, but I was seriously asking what you were looking for, which you chose not to respond to, instead preferring to cast aspersions and attack my character, a person you have never met.

In terms of nuclear war, it is called assured mutual destruction...it is one thing to find abhorrent the subjects that are discussed here, that´s fine, in and of itself, but to put yourself on some moralistic high horse, well that never sets well with anyone, message board or ¨real world.¨ As has been pointed out many times, you do not need to read them, do you? Have you been appointed the moral compass or arbiter of values and morals for the board? I have often found that people that criticize others for something usually have the same fault within themselves, but are compensating by taking this approach.

But if you don´t want to answer my question, that´s your prerogative.

0 funny, 0 helpful.

Gomezman5 says on Feb 1, 2006, 10:48:

Hey GIB..... Another interesting point......I never quite heard it that way, but I think your point has a lot of merit.....

0 funny, 0 helpful.