A horrible truth and a very important reminder.

Cheers Terry says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:12:

Ouch!

Slightly on topic... Several weeks ago a cop in San Agustin told me he averages 2 drugged tourists per week, some on the bus, and the rest of them in town. He didn't seem too upset about it. He said it was a lot better than the robbers using violence... Fackin' hell...

Cheers,
Terry

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:16:

mickey finn, south american style.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Mike19 says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:21:

ouch also - sorry to hear that terrible story.

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darkangel305 says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:25:

is there a way to protect yourself or just be anti social?

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:27:

Sad if true , also your friend know knows ,that when in Colombia for the first time never ever ( Not just Colombia any place any where on earth )
place your life and all your property in the hands of total strangers.
In Colombia many use burundanga as a income tool.

People have been drugged and robbed since the days of Marco Polo and Shanghi
exploits. There are many many warnings in all travel books and several travel websites about not being a target.

Burundanga -
The Next Colombian Drug Threat
by Stephen M. Pittel, PhD
Note: Dr. Pittel is a Drug & Alcohol Resource host at Forensic Solutions LLC.
He can be reached for comment or consultation by contacting:
SMP Associates; 222 Derby Street; Berkeley, CA 94705;
Phone (510) 486-1888; Fax (510-486-1911); Email: drugshrink at comcast.net
Recent reports of date-rapes, thefts, kidnapping and other crimes in the U.S. and Canada have been attributed to Burundanga - a potent form of scopalamine that has been used for decades in Columbia in native rituals, as a weapon and by criminals who prey on tourists. The Wall Street Journal reported in 1995 that the use of Burandanga was increasing rapidly as the favored method of assault by immigrant Columbian criminal gangs in the U.S. who now also use it as a major form of currency.
A State Department Consular Warning issued last month warns tourists to avoid unnecessary travel to Columbia because of terrorist activities in general - and particularly to Bogata and Cali where Burundanga is given to unsuspecting visitors in chewing gum, chocolate, drinks or dusted on pieces of paper. Even small doses of the drug are reported to cause "submissive" behavior, while larger doses apparently cause almost instantaneous unconsciousness, followed by complete anterograde amnesia.

A 1991 article "Scopalamine intoxication as a model of transient global amnesia" by A. Ardila and C. Moreno describes Burundanga as an extract of the Borrachio ("drunken") tree and other plants belonging to the Daturu or Brugsmania genus. Hollister classified Datura and related plants as hallucinogens in his classic volume on "Chemical Psychoses" but it is probably more accurate to view these drugs as sedative-hypnotics on the basis of their powerful hypnotic and amnesic effects.

Until a few years ago San Francisco and other Bay Area prostitutes used scopalamine to drug and rob their clients. I suspect that I haven’t hard much about its illicit use recently because its availability has declined as other drugs have displaced its legitimate medical uses for treatment of motion sickness and sedation. Since Burundanga already accounts for more than half of Bogata’s emergency room admissions for poisoning and over 500 reported crimes per month, it shouldn’t be long before it rolls off our tongues as easily as "roofies" or GHB.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:28:

how are the guys, paul? hopefully no aftereffects other than the loss of personal property?

* i would put them out of business and id them immediately. you can't let people get away with that kind of chit.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Cheers Terry says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:28:

The cop I spoke to said the new drugs were so powerful that you could be knocked out cold by someone simply opening up a map to ask for directions, then blowing the powder in your face.

I don't know anything about this crap, I'm sure there's posters here who can explain what's real and what's urban myth...

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:29:

Watch your drinks like a hawk. The thing in this case is that my friend aproched them in the club, how unlucky is that?

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:38:

He was a bit dazed today but luckily has his kidneys :), think he feels a little silly and pride is hurt a bit but he said it wont scare him away from Medellin.
It´s easy to say that you would ID them but if someone came around to your house threatening to take you out might make you reconsider.

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:40:

sure would be nice to know what club those guys were in. any idea? in lleras?

- do your firends remember what the kids looked like?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:42:

It wasn´t in Lleras, I think it was in Las Palmas. He said he´s going back to look for them

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:45:

In Medellin in most clubs be it ( Mangos ) or a little cantina there are scouts, who look for naive Colombianos and Gringos
These people can read you like a book, and if they think they can gain enough to make it worth while they will turn your pages.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:46:

most of those young kids that hang out in the palmas area are not "connected". i think your amigos are doing the right thing in pursuing it. i would flip it around on those punks and atleast try to get the goods back.

i guess it was burundanga? did your friends have the medico check blood for the id of the drug used?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 25, 2008, 17:47:

Paulr-

Sorry to hear about your friends, but they'll be okay and smarter next time.

What else can you tell us about your friends; lifestyle, age, time in Medellin, visiting or live in Medelin, et cetera?

As I mentioned in another post... TeleAntioquia ran a report warning the public on the increase in robberies in Medellin with the assistance of Burganda (sp) and Scopolamine as of late.

Discover Medellin, Antioquia - Colombia www.medellintraveler.com

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:03:

I don´t know his friend very well but he is huge, looks like a UFC fighter, true. You can´t protect yourself from this with muscle can ya?
My mate is early 20s, he´s been here for 3 month of so and staying another 3 months i think, he presents himself very well and is very intelligent(not in the way of bringing back people he doen´t know to his flat, but you know what i mean).

I don´t like the scare mongering about this stuff as it´s not a typical thing that will happen in every day life here. He has been checked out and he said the doc said it was a sleeping drug, i´ll ask him tomorrow if he gave him the drugs name.

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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poco says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:05:

Quote: He said he´s going back to look for them

The original post indicates he could be naive, later it appeared to be stupidity, now I'd say terminal stupidity and it goes to show that yes, there is such a thing as ambulatory brain death.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:21:

To me, going back to look for them is a bit crazy but i´m sure he wont be going down to the club on his own, it will be to point the people out to the door staff or to the Police, maybe he said it because his pride is hurt and wants to do something immediately after the incident, i don´t know.

Poco. Calling someone you don´t know naive, to have stupidity, terminal stupidity and has ambulatory brain death is quite funny. I can make assumptions about you also, Does poco indicate the size of your penis, your brain or subtleness?

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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durito says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:29:

I wouldn't bring people I'd just met back to my apartment anywhere in the world.

If I did I'd be sure as hell to have hidden my valuables first.

Especially after drinking.


I remember countless parties friends had in college where cd books, electronics, etc that werent put away before a party disappeared. That was in a small safe US college town.

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:29:

all you dudes should have a nice long talk with your porteros. get to know those guys. they could possibly intervene if a plan was put in place.

- there is alot of this nonsense in bogota too. most of it is unreported.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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durito says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:32:

10 Million pesos in value?

He traveled here for a few months with $5,000 worth of stuff?

I live here and I don't have close to that.

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Mike19 says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:41:

I would try to find some burandaga and hire someone to have a drink at the bar and locate them and drug then and rob there nalgases.

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:41:

Get your mind out of the gutter Robi ha ha, yes he was, you know how a man looses a lot of sense when the blood rushes somewhere else? we´ve all been there. They were all in on it, he was kissing one of the girls.

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 25, 2008, 18:55:

paulr,

Interested in knowing the name of the club where this happened, once you find out.

Discover Medellin, Antioquia - Colombia www.medellintraveler.com

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durito says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:02:

Are they sure they were drugged? How would the doctor even know.

He wouldn't be waking up at 11am if given Burundanga well after 4am.

Give me a xanax, ambien, or some other sleeping pill at 5am after drinking all night and I'm not waking up till 6pm the next day.

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:07:

yo no creo es verdad.




Sospeche de burundanga, si...
Las personas que acostumbran a departir con sus amigos en la calle deben tener muy presente los riesgos que se ciernen con la escopolamina o burundanga. No acepte alimentos de gente extraña, allí puede ir la dulce toma.
Ahora que se acerca la temporada navideña, época de compras, regalos, fiestas y celebraciones se incrementa los riesgos de que a las personas les administren burundanga con fines delictivos. Esté alerta a las situaciones que aquí se describen para que no lo sorprendan con la “dulce toma�.


Bajo el nombre de burundanga se agrupan un sinnúmero de sustancias, la mayoría conocidas y algunas mezcladas con otras, que causan alteraciones inmediatas en la salud de la víctima. Dentro de este grupo se encuentran la escopolamina, las benzodiacepinas, las fenotiazinas, los barbitúricos, los antidepresivos tricíclicos, los anestésicos volátiles, la cocaína y algunas sustancias aún no identificadas, de diseño en los laboratorios. Se administran por vía oral, inhalatoria y a través de la piel.


El toxicólogo Hugo Alberto Gallego Rojas previene sobre las diferentes modalidades y situaciones en las que le pueden dar burundanga sin que usted se dé cuenta:


Usted se va a un bar, una heladería, una taberna, una cafetería a tomar un refresco o licor. Se le acerca una persona muy amable a ofrecerle un trago, una cerveza, un refresco, un confite o un pasante. Ahí va la burundanga.

Usted se niega a recibir algo de un extraño, pero la persona insiste tanto que al final acepta el dulce, el chicle, el tinto, la gaseosa, el tinto o el aguardiente, ahí va el veneno.

En un concierto pueden arrimarse personas con olores fuertes, le lanzan agua o cualquier líquido que puede contener la burundanga. De un momento a otro usted se marea, se pierde, no sabe más de sí.

Alguien se acerca a ofrecerle productos aromatizantes en la calle o casa a casa (jabones, perfumes, esencias), pueden contener burundanga que se absorbe por vía inhalatoria.

Alguien se acerca fumando o fuman dentro del taxi con las ventanillas cerradas. El pasajero inhala el humo y empieza a marearse. No se sabe todavía a quien fuma qué efecto puede hacerle el tóxico.

Pueden suministrarle escopolamina en gaseosas y cervezas en lata, a las cuales les hacen pequeñas perforaciones, generalmente por la base y luego las cubren con un pegante. Se recomienda comprar estas bebidas en sitios confiables.

Una persona puede arrimarse a conversarle en forma amigable, a decirle que lo conoce y también a su familia, al rato usted puede sentir un olor que irrita sus ojos o lo marea. Esto suele pasar al salir de una entidad bancaria o de algún sitio donde usted reciba dinero, como la liquidación y la prima.
Síntomas de intoxicación
Usted puede estar bajo los efectos de burundanga si tiene los siguientes síntomas:
Mareo, dificultad para caminar, visión borrosa, lenguaje arrastrado, pérdida de la memoria inmediata. La persona aparenta estar borracha o bajo efectos del licor, pierde la voluntad y queda a merced de los delincuentes, puede llegar a un profundo sueño, al coma e, incluso, a la muerte. Dependiendo de la dosis suministrada y del tipo de sustancia utilizada como burundanga pueden o no quedar secuelas como pérdida de la concentración, alteraciones de la memoria, llanto fácil, psicosis transitorias, entre otros trastornos.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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droble77 says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:09:

Colombians are friendly and the vast majority mean no harm, but it's BAD policy to invite people you've just met back to your apartment, especially if you've met them in a night club. If it's another setting, and other people can vouch for them like a common friend, then maybe I would reconsider. I've had people over in an apartment I rented out, but these were people I already knew and we were coming back from a double date.

I wouldn't invite strangers even in my home country, the U.S., much less Colombia given the known dangers.

If you're going to be staying in Colombia for months at a time, you got to remember, your greatest danger is getting too comfy and bringing your guard down. That's when your instincts start to malfunction and the bad stuff can happen, as in this case. . .

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:10:

No prob´s M T.

Don´t know Durito but both of them passing out and having no memory of anything after a certain point in the night would suggest getting drugged, no? I really don´t know.

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:12:

Chi pecora si fa, il lupo se la mangia.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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durito says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:14:

Well I've done that with just alcohol, but I used to be a bit of a lush. So, I suppose that does sound very suspicious.

Especially since they took the passports, etc. I mean maybe someone grabs a laptop or something opportunistically, but getting all of that stuff sounds like something planned out well in advance.

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:14:

These guys were just having a good time but forgot they were in Medellin.... they were obviously drugged, in any case.

Discover Medellin, Antioquia - Colombia www.medellintraveler.com

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:16:

Se non è vero, è ben trovato.

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:16:

Enrique187 says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:21:

I hate this scopolamine shit. These stories freak me out knowing how many times it could have been used on me in the past. I guess am going to have to walk around with a gas mask now when I go to Medellin clubs.

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Enrique187 says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:28:

That racket really is an easy money making operation. All you need is a hot girl as your front and you could probably easily get a new victim each night. It's no wonder it's becoming so common now.

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:33:

This is as common as milk in tea...........it happens every week-end night in every big city on the planet............It's not a Colombian thing, by any means........there is no planning needed, other than to spot a suitable mark...........I have personally been the recipent on three occasions......yes.........three........twice in New York..........once in Chicago............

You don't see it coming.............especially when you are in party mode...........and it is rarely reported.........or so I have been told.........


.


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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droble77 says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:36:

C'mon guys, this is what love motels are for. If things are getting hot and heavy with a girl and you think you're going to get lucky, that's where you go, unless, once again, you met her through a friend or a friend can vouch that she's cool. And bringing more than one strange guy into an apt. after a long night of rumba should be bringing up warning bells.

I also like the idea tejas mentioned above regarding porteros. My portero knows that when my guest leaves, I will accompany him/her downstairs or I call down in advance that my guest is leaving.

You've got to let these chicas know that the big head is controlling the little one.

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:45:

Enrique,

Try plugging up your nose with cotton balls. It seems to work out for the perpertrators.

I spend a lot of time out on the street by myself, drinking and bar hopping almost every night when I'm in Medellin. There were two victims involved in this incident, so much for safety in numbers.

I probably would not have invited them back to my apartment.

My friends in Colombia say they only go out with friends, and leave with freinds, usually it's with a crowd of friends, for this same reason.

This was a case of a party being moved to an apartment, not sure how much they planned on getting lucky. So the love motel would probably not have come up.

You just have to be careful.

Discover Medellin, Antioquia - Colombia www.medellintraveler.com

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paulr says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:45:

I know this happens in most big cities but if you are caught doing this in England you are looking at a long stretch, i wonder what time you would get by getting caught doing it here?
Like Enrique said, it´s a good little earner for the daring ones.

I caught someone putting something in my drink at a party a few months back (i knew him) so went over and said "what did you just put in my glass?" he smiled and said "Marajuana" when i checked, it was so i took it out and calmed down. Would be nice to catch one of these people in the act and beat the crap out of them.

"paulr threatens me with death !" pobrecito

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:47:

droble77 says...." My portero knows that when my guest leaves, I will accompany him/her downstairs "


just curious droble.........do you date mostly girls....or mostly men....:)

You might want to re-write that......


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Enrique187 says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:53:

does scopolamine only affect the victim if inhaled or orally? the cotton balls in the nose sounds like a decent idea although i dont know how long i could put up with that. maybe just in taxi rides, etc.

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Enrique187 says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:57:

If someone is under the effects of scopolamine are there noticeable symptoms (like when one is very drunk, etc) ?

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 25, 2008, 19:59:

cotton balls.... give me a break.

it can be induced as a powder to be inhaled or put in a drink. i have heard some other creative delivery methods as well, but they are probably less common.

keeping an eye on ones drink goes along way, as well as traveling in groups.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:00:

Everything you want to know about Scopolamine but were afraid to ask......

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1119242704

Watch all 9 episodes, it may save your life.

Discover Medellin, Antioquia - Colombia www.medellintraveler.com

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Enrique187 says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:01:

Saw that vid a while ago. Pretty disturbing. I wonder if there are more "underground" documentaries like that on Colombia.

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:06:

MT: You gonna get his dude killed a virgin ,if he walks around with cotton balls up his nose.

1st No girl is gonna want a cotton ball nosed Gringo.

2nd With cotton balls in his nose, he will standout like a sitting duck.

Medellin is a city and cities have pros and cons. Here is a report from only 1 clinic in Medellin Saturday before last. You could be the next Burudanga victim ? That is only 37 cases at 1 clinic .

En el Hospital Pablo Tabon Uribe se realizaron 114 consultas por traumatología: 37 ocasionadas por burundanga ; 46 con arma blanca (de los cuales uno falleció); cinco por golpes, 5 intoxicados , dos por accidente de tránsito y un adulto quemado con pólvora: 15 de Marzo 2008

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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Enrique187 says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:09:

jajajajaja. I'll color the cotton balls black so they're camouflaged.

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vladimiro says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:20:

Most clubs in Las Palmas aren't open that late. In "La Isla" on the top of Las Palmas hill behind the casino is the only club that is open all night/morning that I know of, but its been a year since I've been there.

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poco says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:30:

Quote: I can make assumptions about you also, Does poco indicate the size of your penis, your brain or subtleness?

Damn,, now it appears terminal stupidity is contagious and I hope not fatal.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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romy says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:30:

Makes me think that on my last trip to Medellin we (with two friends) got into a car with two girls we met at Lleras. And they drove us up to Palmitas, but most of the time in the car I had no clue where we were as all of el poblado looked the same to me. We had drinks with them and then they drove us down to our hotel in Laureles, but it makes me think that anything could have happened. However, there's no way we would have gone with them if there were any guys we didn't know.

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:33:

" The Roofie Foundation, an organisation that provides advice about drug rape, reported a 34 per cent increase of this crime in the South West during the last year...... Rape, however, isn't the only motivation for drink spiking; it has also been used to target potential victims for theft and assault. ........

As revellers at a Chelmsford nightclub partied late into the night last November, police posed as glass collectors. Eight out of the 200 glasses they collected contained drugs thought to be used in rapes. "


-----------------------------------------



" A survey found that around one-third of drink spiking incidents ended in sexual assault and one in 20 in robbery.

Only one in six incidents are reported to police, and there were between 3,000 and 4,000 reported drink spiking incidents over the one-year period,"
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/11/12/1100131178712.html?from=stor...


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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DodgerDogs says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:42:

The locals of Medellín, Colombia, joke that when God created the world, one of ... invoke so many local traditions and superstitions, no one had yet been able to ...
www.panix.com/userdirs/jwinters/thesciences/Kosik_MA99/KosikFrame.html

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.Martin Luther King:

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Medellin Traveler says on Mar 25, 2008, 20:50:

The more you are aware of the dangers in Colombia, the better you are able to defend yourself from being another victim... unless you're drunk and the women are too HOT to resist!!

Buenas noches.

Discover Medellin, Antioquia - Colombia www.medellintraveler.com

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:08:

RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:14:

Alma.........do an internet search on it..............it is extraordinarily common............more often than not, drink is spiked, the person is raped or robbed, the robbery victim wakes up the next day with no ill effects, other than a hangover.............no ambulance is required in most cases. You are not going to see these type of victims whilst working on an ambulance, generally speaking.


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:19:

Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:20:

RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:39:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flunitrazepam.

" In the United Kingdom, the use of flunitrazepam and other "date rape" drugs has been connected to stealing from sedated victims. One expert quoted in a British newspaper estimated that up to 2,000 individuals are robbed each year after being spiked with powerful sedatives,[31] making drug-assisted robbery a more common problem than drug-assisted rape.


.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:42:

Hong Con: Businessmen Robbed
Updated:13:33, Sunday November 04, 2007

Dozens of foreign businessmen have been drugged and robbed by prostitutes in Hong Kong.

Dozens of robberies reportedPolice are also investigating the deaths of two American men who may have been poisoned by sex workers.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1291429,00.html

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:46:

.

British stag parties are falling victim to drugging and robbery in the Latvian capital.

A stag party of 15 Britons who spent a weekend in Riga last month told Times Online that three of their party were the victim of credit card fraud and one of them believes he was drugged before being robbed. They also claim to have met a second stag party who told of similar experiences.

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/news/article...

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:48:

.

02/09/2008 07:11 AM ID: 68351
Sharp-Dressed Men Falling Prey to Flirty Female Robbers
Well-dressed gentlemen in posh Dallas locations are the target of a ring of flirtatious females who may be drugging the men before robbing them of their valuables.

http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=68351

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:51:

Even us gullable Irish don't see it coming.......

.
Pensioner drugged and robbed by women in Thailand

A retired Irish businessman living in Thailand has had his savings stolen by two women who drugged and robbed him.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t154462.html

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:55:

Enrique187 says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:55:

moral of the story. don't mess with prostitutes, no matter what part of the world.

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 21:55:

.

Never accept food or drinks from strangers and do not leave food or drinks unattended, particularly in bars. Cases of drugging followed by robbery and assault have occurred. Tourists have been approached by seemingly friendly strangers, often posing as fellow travellers, offering drugged food or drinks. Criminals sometimes use the drug scopolamine to incapacitate travellers in order to rob them. The drug is administered through drinks, food, aerosols, cigarettes, gum, or in powder form.

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=290000

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:00:

Alma says.............." I don't think it's like "milk in tea" in the UK, mate."

You brought up the UK........I did'nt mention it.............what I said was ...." it happens every week-end night in every big city on the planet............It's not a Colombian thing, by any means..."

Also..........every thing you read about this, mentions that figures are very unreliable, as it is believed to be grossly under reported.

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.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:04:

Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:06:

Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:07:

Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:11:

http://www.vbs.tv/video.php?id=1119242704

M T, that's a real positive video fella.

La vida es una rutina

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:17:

Alma........my only point was that this is not limited to Medellin..........which some of the folks here seemed to think in the earlier comments............This is happening everywhere......and is very under reported. There is endless info on it.

I was'nt spoofing when I said it happened to me three f**kin times.............I did some reading on it at the time. The only way I could be sure that I was a victim of this, and not just manky drunk, was the circumstances in each case.

Without going into details........it can be administered at any time..........but does not take effect until certain things are done to you when the time is right. A little touchy feely massage in the right place and you sleep like a baby for 8 hours. Nothing will wake you.

You have always gone back to " your place " and you always wake up to discover you have been robbed.

.

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.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:18:

RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:19:

Alma..........." You edited!! ".??

What do you think I edited.,,,?

I did'nt edit anything.

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.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:21:

Robi............yes.........it's the last thing you remember........

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.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Alma del Norte (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:22:

RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:25:

Most people would think you should learn after the first time..................but this is so hard to see coming..............so easy to do..........when you are " out and about "...........having a few beers.....good times......meet a " nice " girl...............it's the last thing you would see coming..............

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.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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miamimike says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:35:

Alma del Norte says on Tuesday March 25th, 2008 21:08:

RAAAY - "This is as common as milk in tea...........it happens every week-end night in every big city on the planet............It's not a Colombian thing, by any means........there is no planning needed, other than to spot a suitable mark...........I have personally been the recipent on three occasions......yes.........three........twice in New York..........once in Chicago............

You don't see it coming.............especially when you are in party mode...........and it is rarely reported.........or so I have been told........."

10 years working on a London ambulance, car etc. and I've perhaps seen one possible case. of serious spiking. Alcohol causation is by far and away the biggest culprit in unconsciousness out there.

"Milk in tea" ? - no
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Not much of this here in Miami either unless you count a few cases of date rape drugging on South Beach but thats much different then what the OP is about--complete knockout drugs.Not very common here or if it is, it isn't reported.

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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bickerss says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:36:

Was this disco called Carnival?

Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:40:

Miamimike............give the Miami Beach cops a call 305- 673 7900...........they'll tell you how common it is..........

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:48:

Medo...............how many names have you remaining....??

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.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 22:53:

But you must have a few left........rumour has it you registered 25 before February.


.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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RAAAY says on Mar 25, 2008, 23:03:

JoeSmith99 says on Tuesday March 25th, 2008 22:45:

Didn't read the post....since Raaay is here I will read tomorrow.

Just curious Raay? What is your hot wife doing while you are always on-line?. Me? Maybe seeing your wife! Ha ha!



-----------------------------
I'm not sure if these type of comments will help your case..........but hey.........whatever floats your boat.


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.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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miamimike says on Mar 26, 2008, 00:30:

Miamimike............give the Miami Beach cops a call 305- 673 7900...........they'll tell you how common it is..........

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RAAAY--I mentioned I ACKNOWLEDGE a few cases of date Rape drugging but if there is more then that, the Miami Beach Cops don't feel its important enough to put in the news. And you have to remember, look at the low class that pulls this in Miami Beach, not exactly Miami's finest or Pillars of the community,,,consider the neighborhood, an overpriced undervalued tourist trap,,,full of transients

Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte después Bésame, bésame mucho Como si fuera esta noche La última vez Bésame, bésame mucho Que tengo miedo a perderte Perderte de

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droble77 says on Mar 26, 2008, 06:06:

droble77 says...." My portero knows that when my guest leaves, I will accompany him/her downstairs "

just curious droble.........do you date mostly girls....or mostly men....:)
You might want to re-write that......
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LOL, 100% girls, I just didn't want to give the impression I was only talking about hookers, lol. Heaven forbid people here think I'm a sex tourist! :0))

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droble77 says on Mar 26, 2008, 06:31:

Just one last thing: these after-hours joints tend to have more shady characters than the "mainstream" clubs. And the more techo played in the club, the more drugs around and I think the more chance of a fight taking place. I'll never forget the night in Barlovento some dude grabbed me from behind and threw me off my chair. I think he grabbed me to regain his own balance while fighting some other guy over a girl. Or maybe in his drunken/drugged confusion, he thought I was his enemy? And Barlovento is supposedly some hip place around the Lleras area. Anyway, I'm glad security checks everyone carefully before entering the place, he could have easily stabbed/shot me from behind as I was seated looking in the other direction, minding my own business, did not see that one coming!

I would have enjoyed the Colombian rumba culture much more in my 20's. I'm in my mid-30s now and the idea of dancing, drinking, and bombarding my ears all night with loud music just doesn't have the same appeal. :0)

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 26, 2008, 07:19:

better a sedative than burundanga. scopalamine can be quite dangerous.

- paulr, it sounds like your friends were slipped some type of sedative.

- this happened to me almost 15 years ago in the barrios outside of cancun, mexico. the guy kept handing me beers that i could actually see the pill in the bottom of. i would casually walk around and set it down somewhere else in the club. after the 4th or 5th beer, he was quite astonished that i was still standing. case in point - i would have probably drank the beers back in those days (young and dumb(er)) if i would not have seen the pill in the beer itself.

careful gents. travel in groups, get to know your pertero, stay alert...

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Albatross says on Mar 26, 2008, 08:14:

Posts like this make me glad I'm anti-social

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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bickerss says on Mar 26, 2008, 08:34:

any idea yet on what club it was? Carnival?

Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 26, 2008, 11:28:

or palmitas?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 26, 2008, 12:47:

i'm willing to bet less than 20% of the occurences use burundanga - too risky, even for the perpetrator...

those guys that made the vbs? video happened to think of putting the local phenom on film first and take it back to the states. they made the piece look like voodoo at work or something.

same crap goes on all over the worldas was mentioned in this post already. the real issue here is that you are the tourist. as such you are easy game, atleast in theory. i wonder what the ratios are for local vs foreigner?

the wild card is the pretty girl as bait. i can see how this can cause one to lead their guard completely down. if you assume this to be true in every circumstance, you should be able to better guard yourself. just follow a few rules and you can diminish the risk of this occuring for sure.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Mike19 says on Mar 26, 2008, 17:40:

Does anyone know how many cases of these occurences happen a year? I know alot are probably not reported but it seems you really got to keep your guard up in Colombia? or anywhere else?

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RAAAY says on Mar 26, 2008, 18:34:

No idea.............but it seems to be equally common everywhere.........
Apply caution........

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Catfish35 says on Mar 27, 2008, 06:27:

SHIT !
They have all this new stuff out ?
I am still walking around with a flashers coat, felt Fedora, carrying that old brown bottle and pouring it into my hanky, and forcefully holding it to their face to knock everybody out!
AHHH Todays Yoots!!

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end."

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