A group is its own worst enemy

tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:01:

raay, our local troll killer is on top of it, gl. he seems to sniff him/her out in quick order everytime.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:06:

Every morning when I get up I find this troll pining at the door waiting for to be let out. Eventually he'll run out of handles...he said he had about 25 to sell? Right? I

Cheers,
Desi

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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podborski says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:10:

no better way to get rid of him Desi? What happens when peter opens up to new members again?

The good news is he is surprisingly easy to spot. I guess trolls can't really hide, their message is always the same, and changing it would defeat their purpose.

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:29:

just give raay the ability to troll zap. he seems to enjoy it! weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........

;)

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:35:

Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:39:

We need some more software but Peter'll see to it as soon as he can. Unfortunately that's the game these trolls play; see how long they can hang on before getting zapped. Report the trolls, don't feed them, don't talk to them at all.
Ray hahahaha yes he's good, but a little trollish himself fromtime to time. It would be like inviting the Big Bad Wolf to guard the three little piggies.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:44:

People should not be posting pics on troll threads; they should know better.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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Bill Turley (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:50:

usher127 says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:51:

Should a troll not be forgiven if providing entertainment? Or at least not have that particular post deleted?

Last night Lancer went biserk... it was primetime drama.... and now lost in cyberspace forever.

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:59:

i suggested a nominal $5 signup fee a few months back. it might atleast help with the cheapskate trolls. however, a group of troll supporters quickly ensued with their "entertainment" argument to preserve the troll(s) ability to freely operate among us.

- a consensus code might do the trick if monetary rational is not warranted. ie. once a troll (or troll candidate) is spotted, then a mod attaches a "troll warning" icon to that user. it will come complete with a democracy poll that asks other users if they think the "troll candidate" is indeed a qualified troll. if the concensus exceeds x amount of votes with x amount of concensus, then the troll is eliminated - by group vote.

just some thoughts.....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:02:

pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:08:

pedro (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:08:

Bill Turley (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:19:

vicshere says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:14:

idea you should have a way to rate a post....and have a separate are to check out most popular or high ranking posts...some of the posts on here lately are crap..if it wasnt for this chavaz shit we would be all asleep

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CatGirl says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:20:

Peter- yes great board. After I read your attachment I will answer ;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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vicshere says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:31:

i like these points

Members are different than users. A pattern will arise in which there is some group of users that cares more than average about the integrity and success of the group as a whole. And that becomes your core group, Art Kleiner's phrase for "the group within. The core group on Communitree was undifferentiated from the group of random users that came in.
They were separate in their own minds, because they knew what they wanted to do, but they couldn't defend themselves against the other users. But in all successful online communities that I've looked at, a core group arises that cares about and gardens effectively. Gardens the environment, to keep it growing, to keep it healthy. the group that matters most."
Users have to be able to identify themselves and there has to be a penalty for switching handles. The penalty for switching doesn't have to be total. But if I change my handle on the system, I have to lose some kind of reputation or some kind of context. This keeps the system functioning.

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:33:

yeah - kinda like a strata system for user reputation! ;) LOL!

- not pickin on ya vicshere, just taking an opp! i happen to agree with you above.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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CatGirl says on Mar 4, 2008, 13:19:

I think setting up a system where we add moderators and ask people to report their subjective opinions may create a lot of work and drama. Marking members as a troll would be a little like a witch hunt unless there are clear guidelines on what a member can report as "troll" activity. Sometimes troll activity is subjective. I also don't think the ISP comment would work either. I don't think that can be possible to it's exact meaning. What if a poster is in an internet cafe or elsewhere - the ISP address would be different - would not make sense.

My Suggestion:
Maybe verification of the newbies email address (mandatory) placed in registration before allowing them to start would help. Therefore they would be sent an email verifying they signed up for PBH and clarifying. The members can be tracked through viable email accounts, no duplicates.

What if newbies were required to read specific rules, guidelines, how to contact a moderator, who the moderators are etc... and agree upon them before they can complete their sign up - This way things are clearer. PBH has a very unique subculture, not your typical board from what i am learning.

Newbies could also be under a probationary period and more closley montiored by the Moderators, but not by the date they sign up but by the number of posts/comments as an indicator. As it appears some of the handles that are showing up out of nowhere were dormant for a few months...
The idea of a probationary period would not be that "we are monitoring you for being a troll" - more of a welcome wagon idea..to help the newbies understand the process.
And - also another suggestion. during the probationary period - maybe they should ony be allowed to post in certain topics until it is clear the newbies understand the purpose of the board. Again, I prefer the positive approach instead of "hunting for trolls approach".

So - no need to add mods, maybe just have them focus more on giving guidance towards the newbies
Ok - that's my suggestions for now

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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el flaco says on Mar 5, 2008, 02:08:

Peter: can you add a section on Ciudad Perdida on your travel notes, you mention it in the introduction but there is no information. I would like to add my notes on the trip.

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aztec says on Mar 5, 2008, 07:00:

"Adding a few good mods should do the trick." rocinante

O.K. But please! Some political and philosophical diversity!

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:07:

I believe Roci is right; talking about this particular troll anyway.. basically all the names of that list have either checked out legit or been removed from the list of users.

Aztec, I don't really think political or philospohical diversity makes any difference; it's a matter of integrity and that has nothing with politics to do.

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:17:

.

I think if the Mods salary was increased to $150,000 from the current $125,000 per annum that they would concentrate more on the job...............

I think everything is all Desi's fault...................including today's weather.......

Comparing me to the Big Bad Wolf...................................Haa....

.

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:47:

lol..............stop trying to hijack this post..............go back to posting in the Bolovian section...............go away......swat.....swat

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:47:

Oh, you huff and puff loudly enough, Raaaaaaay. Robi; I'm sending you a p.m. Roci, I see I get no respect here...perhaps I should be reconsidering the job offer from the competition...

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:54:

.................

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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webmanco says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:59:

Detecting multiple handle posting from the same IP is a five minutes procedure. The mods already have the IP address on their screen (robi666)

Changing you ip address is a matter of 2 minutes in some conections and a little longer in another ocasions.

Other forums got their flaws, ip managenmt beeing just one of them.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:57:

kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:03:

RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:14:

.

Who is Robi...?......Is it a male or female ? Is this someone that posts here, or is some American's prepago......?

.

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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Monpirri says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:10:

I really think we need more moderators. We could add more moderators who know about Colombia, if we add a couple of more moderators it will balance out more even the present philosophy besides moderators sometimes need to sleep and rest and obviously they cannot do a superb job if they are tired or lack sleep.
Please do not forget that more members will love to join pbh and two moderators are not enough.
I have three great Moderators for you: La_Mona, Lcacique and Robert Jorge

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:49:

That crap ain't selling in these parts....

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:05:

Robi says .....he knows what he is talking about..........hmmmm.......I'm lost for words....

But, on a more serious note................This is a great board and Peter has to be commended.
It must also be a pain sometimes for the Mods and maybe they feel it is not worth the $125,000 per year.

I belong to a few other un-related boards...............it seems that they have a lot more moderators..................without having Peter and his folks waste their time.....and possibly money also................why not experiment with an increase in the number of Mods............see how that works.................if not........try something else.

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:07:

I agree with Monpirri, the site needs more moderators, and a very good IP Location Software (i gave Desi the site were Peter can choose the software he needs). Do you remember that one month ago I put an IP Code that detected exactly your Service Provider, the country, the city and the place from where you were writing ? I remember that all become worried, except Robi that understood what the hell I have done. So, if a guy like me can know from where are you writing...the Hosting Provider or Peter, with a very good software can know too.

I understand what you are saying Roci, but don't forget that the "media" of the people that writes in the Internet, doesn't have that knowledge of Tech nor Proxy, hidden, etc. The media are people without this knowledge. And the really hackers have best things to do that bother the PBH, they do another kind of things. But, is my opinion, and I respet yours.

With the IP Location Software, the Mods can know exactly not only the IP, either the location as well. An example, If I write with 20 accounts more, and from differents computers (at work, at home, cibers) Desi could detect me, because no matter what name I use to write, or from where I write, she ever would know my location...Buenos Aires. So, who other guy could be...? Of course is not the only way, but it helps a lot. Then if PBH have the bad luck that hackers wants to bother the site...well there is nothing to do against this.

Finally, a troll is very simple to detect: the newbies doesn't write and write and write a lot of Threads and posts...this is not common. So, don't write in this kind of threads. Ignore him.

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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Man Tequila says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:30:

Interesting article. I would not place money on who is the most paranoid person on PBH or if the core group here has much of a green thumb.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:30:

You are welcome Robi. I know that you know a lot about Tech. Either Roci. I think the idea is to help Peter, and give him the instruments to fight against the trolls. About what Roci are saying, for example my ISP give me a different IP every day, but if Peter can detect my location...I will be unmasked. Not only the IP, the location helps too.

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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vicshere says on Mar 5, 2008, 17:36:

holy crap

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podborski says on Mar 5, 2008, 18:11:

hijueputa

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 19:56:

Oh oh..................

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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CatGirl says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:03:

Robbi: I agree with Roci...the IP address idea will not work - sorry.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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CatGirl says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:45:

Well, this is some constructive and supportive feedback. I hope leadership is responsive ;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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goin_south says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:47:

IP location software.. humm.. a lil like having GPS to find the fish again, eh?

nothin I say is to be takn for my words, but rather for the words of Sailor Jerry.

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:50:

Roc.........two things.......
1. Myself and Robi and I think a few others are doing lunch tomorrow...........if you're up to it.

2. I'm not into the techie stuff............but it strikes me that more moderators would be an immediate fix to troll problems.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about trolls and what to do. I was one of those that said there was an entertainment factor and did'nt have a problem with them. Others had problems for various reasons.

I read Palm's long post just before it was deleated. S**t, he mentioned me a lot. Now, I don't feel the way I felt before. Their entertainment value is not worth the hassle they cause. This guy would never be identified as a troll if he just continued with normal posts and comments. The problem with him is, he very quickly begins to throw insults and be generally disruptive.

He is of course, still here. Yes, right now at this moment. He is as obvious as shit on a shoe. But so far, in his current re-incarnation he is being careful and has not begun to be an ass. In this new re-incarnation, he began posting and commenting before he introduced Palm.

I don't want to be labeled as the troll cop.............and if he's not being a p***k................why bother ?

We'll see how he behaves under his current two active handles.

I suggest more mods...........and raise Desi's salary by $25,000 up to $150,000...........when you read her stuff......she is obviously one smart lady.............and someone who comes across as a real sound person.



.

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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CatGirl says on Mar 5, 2008, 21:17:

Yes I agree Desi is a smart lady ;)

Funny too

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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webmanco says on Mar 5, 2008, 21:24:

Forget about ip software, just issue each moderator one of Traveling Girl mini guns, :-)

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 5, 2008, 21:42:

"raise Desi's salary by $25,000 up to $150,000" Thank you, Ray.
I second that motion.
How nice of you robi to tell everybody.
Web, I take that gun now. (now before anybody is going to flame me for death threats I have to make it clear that I'd use that Traveler Girl Mini Gun only for self-defense.)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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webmanco says on Mar 5, 2008, 22:48:

Here is a sample letter for trolls

http://www.all-encompassingly.com/annoying-commenter-from-brazil.html

Annoying Commenter,

Merry Christmas.

We hope that you are able to celebrate this holiday with your friends and family, not simply commenting on strangers' blogs.



Sincerely,

Doug and Travis



P.S. We apologize to anyone in Brazil who is erroneously getting this page. Unfortunately, Annoying Commenter is determined to continue wasting our time. If you would like to visit all-encompassingly.com, we suggest moving to Argentina.

No hay extremo cierto o verdadero, porque los extremos opacan, enruedan, (lavan cerebros) verdades. Yotas

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 6, 2008, 04:45:

roci seems to know his chit. maybe he should mod a bit?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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RAAAY says on Mar 6, 2008, 08:22:

gringo...........Medo will not tire of posting..............he continues to do so using two active handles..................began before he introduced Palm to us............very prolific poster.................but being nice..........

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Mar 6, 2008, 08:51:

It looks like I'm his main enemy and he waits until I'm off; I usually let him out in the morning (my time), around midnight Eastern. This has become fairly established routine, but I agree with *Loid, he can't have a lot of handles left (I deleted 2 yesterday).
I also agree with a screening the new accounts, a verifiable e-mail address and IP address check up, at least plus perhaps a probational period. But that requires new software and we'll have to do with what we have right now. With your co-operation of course, Peter, Colombiche and myself will have the situation under control with the tools we have, providing we find the time to scan these forums most of the day and night. The geographical spread makes it easier since there's always one of us awake:)

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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podborski says on Mar 6, 2008, 10:44:

can't we trace the troll's IP address and location and call in some air support to blast him? Then we could send RAAAY and Robi in to get the body and his laptop and see who he really was and who was supporting him. Probably Chavez.

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aztec says on Mar 6, 2008, 15:05:

"it's a matter of integrity" Desideria

Perhaps you are right. I have never questioned your integrity. On the contrary, I suspect you have intentionally held back on some issues so you would not prejudice the argument.

While I find myself on the opposite side of your views of man versus the state I still would pick you as a person to be stranded with alone on an island. You would not be boring!

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RAAAY says on Mar 6, 2008, 15:11:

podborski says.

.." Then we could send RAAAY and Robi in to get the body "

Pod.....best I go alone.......Robi ( pictured below ) would'nt be much help.


.

Robi



.

It's useless to argue with ignorance...

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 6, 2008, 16:12:

Rocinante, todo bien. No me siento ofendido ni mucho menos. Si trabajas en seguridad informatica es seguro que sabes de lo que hablas. Encriptacion, criptografia, firma digital, etc., todas esas medidas tecnologicas que se adoptan para proteger los sistemas bancarios, tienen su jusitificacion porque es necesario cumplir con el Standard de normas de seguridad de protección de datos personales, y los Bancos son víctimas a diario de ataques de intrusión, de hackers, crackers, delitos informáticos, etc. Y acá si que los intrusos son verdaderos ingenieros de sistemas que crean los antisistemas para poder cometer sus ilícitos. Un hacker no es sino un programador de sistemas que prueba fallas de vulnerabilidad.

Lo que yo digo es que en un sitio de Internet, los que escriben, mayormente son adolescentes, viajeros, y también gente mayor (bueno PBH es la prueba de ello) sin mayores conocimientos en el tema, es decir Begginers. Vos lo dijiste muy bien, Robi y yo no somos programadores, y eso que sabemos y bastante del tema. El resto, ni siquiera tiene idea de lo que estamos hablando. Hace un mes se me ocurrió poner un código de detección de IP...y todo el mundo se volvió loco !!!!!!! Y como dije, el único que sabía lo que había hecho era Robbi.

Ahora bien, si PBH tuvo la mala suerte de cruzarse con un Hacker, entonces no hay nada que hacer, porque ese tipo seguramente no va a parar hasta hacer voltear el sitio. Pero si los trolls de aca solo son Bogus, Lamers, Leechers o Lusers, entonces no hay porque preocuparse. Con un buen detector se acaba el asunto.

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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scotty says on Mar 6, 2008, 19:12:

This site has been in the past a dman good site, now it has problems, i could go into a long post explaining what i think the problems are here but i see no reason for me to do that, i think it would be wasted breath.
Anyone that has been on this site for any length of time knows what the problems are and who causes most the problems and who allows most of this to take place.
I for one am a little tired of the favortism, tired of the personal attacks, and tired of the inmaturity.
Therefore i have decided to cut back on my PBH participation, i will on occasion come on PBH surf the posts see if there is anything readable or useful to me, i may even on occasion post something, but i am not going to produce the amount of participation that i have in the past.
Peter good luck getting this all worked out.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Man Tequila says on Mar 6, 2008, 19:16:

That sounds wise, Scotty. It's not worth getting very upset about stuff on a message board.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Monpirri says on Mar 6, 2008, 20:15:

Peter, I highly recommend for Moderator: La_Mona, Lcacique and Robert Jorge.
They are very articulated and pretty knowledgeable about Colombia and they do not have a previous history,

In God I trust.

"Anyone who still thinks that Colombia is not a gastronomical paradise needs to have their head examined." Darloup

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