PBH / colombia (travelguide, pictures) / post

A group is its own worst enemy

See http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html

As you may know, we still have user signups turned off. This is a great board, and I love it, but it's got a few tiny pietsie little problems too, as you also may know. The link above explains things well I think.. Let's discuss thoughts and ideas about the board, if you're into it.

By Peter (Moderator) on Mar 4, 2008, 06:24 in Friendly Talkzone.

gringoloid says on Mar 4, 2008, 07:55:

I'd like to add one more trait to differences to humans than the blogger described.....Intelligence Quotient. There are huge differences in mental ability, reasoning skills, etc., in the PBH commenters.

Peter there is a troll working here who is actually a long time poster here that had his original account deleted.

This person apparently has made numerous new accounts, who knows how many, and is causing nothing but trouble, mostly in the evenings. As an account gets deleted, he just comes in with another user account that he previously created.

Can't anything be done about this troll?

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:01:

raay, our local troll killer is on top of it, gl. he seems to sniff him/her out in quick order everytime.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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gringoloid says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:05:

this morning i tried to show my friends some pictures that either billyb or kat1 posted about the FARC. This same trolls account has been deleted and so went the pictures.

we're losing good material in this way.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:06:

Every morning when I get up I find this troll pining at the door waiting for to be let out. Eventually he'll run out of handles...he said he had about 25 to sell? Right? I

Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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podborski says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:10:

no better way to get rid of him Desi? What happens when peter opens up to new members again?

The good news is he is surprisingly easy to spot. I guess trolls can't really hide, their message is always the same, and changing it would defeat their purpose.

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:29:

just give raay the ability to troll zap. he seems to enjoy it! weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee........

;)

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:35:

I don't find RAYY or Robbie666 trolls i think they add a bit of humor to the site well to me anyway hehehe, there are some well established trolls around some more being a pain in the a** than others but i just learn to ignore them

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:39:

We need some more software but Peter'll see to it as soon as he can. Unfortunately that's the game these trolls play; see how long they can hang on before getting zapped. Report the trolls, don't feed them, don't talk to them at all.
Ray hahahaha yes he's good, but a little trollish himself fromtime to time. It would be like inviting the Big Bad Wolf to guard the three little piggies.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:44:

People should not be posting pics on troll threads; they should know better.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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Bill Turley says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:50:

This is a good Board, in fact the only one I regularly visit. It would be nice to eliminate the negitive posters. I would not know how without a constant monitor with a delete button in hand. If I can help I have the time

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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usher127 says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:51:

Should a troll not be forgiven if providing entertainment? Or at least not have that particular post deleted?

Last night Lancer went biserk... it was primetime drama.... and now lost in cyberspace forever.

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 08:59:

i suggested a nominal $5 signup fee a few months back. it might atleast help with the cheapskate trolls. however, a group of troll supporters quickly ensued with their "entertainment" argument to preserve the troll(s) ability to freely operate among us.

- a consensus code might do the trick if monetary rational is not warranted. ie. once a troll (or troll candidate) is spotted, then a mod attaches a "troll warning" icon to that user. it will come complete with a democracy poll that asks other users if they think the "troll candidate" is indeed a qualified troll. if the concensus exceeds x amount of votes with x amount of concensus, then the troll is eliminated - by group vote.

just some thoughts.....

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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ColombianoGringo says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:02:

While I would be down with Peter taking voluntary donations to help defray the costs of the site, a mandatory fee would effectively kill the site and keep almost all new people from joining.

Your idea of a troll reporting mechanism might help, but I suspect it would become a headache for the mods with everyone clicking the troll button every time they disagree with a poster. Still, it might be a viable solution.

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pedro says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:08:

Yes Peter, this is a great site with many worthwhile contributors.

My thoughts are pretty much what I wrote to you in the PM.

- The forum needs at least 6 to 8 mods. This would hopefully not change the feeling of the board or make it feel "over moderated". Just speed up the response to trolls, bearing in mind only a couple of moderators would be online at any given moment.

- A link clickable directly from each comment "report this post to moderators" with a box to explain the reasons why reported.

- A page accessible only to the moderators where they respond to each "incident" report from PBHers and check it off as reviewed.

- Add a new rule in the code of conduct that prohibits posters from threatening violent actions against others. If anyone does this, delete them and any future sign ups of theirs.

- Some kind of more sophisticated IP tracking, if you have the resources (time).

In general, I like the way the forum is. You do a great job of letting it flow and only putting the brakes on things when absolutely necessary. The moderators also give very generously of their time to remove any nasty content from the forum.

que nota!

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pedro says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:08:

And...

¡save pow wow, por favor!

que nota!

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jonas says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:10:

tejas I don´t think a monetary tool would help much.
1. you could have a friend pay for the trolls and a serious troll wouldn´t mind forking out 5 bucks.
2. regulars would be willing to pay, but the idea is that anyone can contribute, and I am sure most people are not willing to pay for this. People who don´t plan on spending their entire days on PBH but are just trying to gather information for a trip to Colombia.

What I have, I do not want to lose, but Where I am I do not want to stay, but those I love, I do not want to leave, but those I know I no longer want to see, but Where I die, I do not want to go;I want to stay where I have never been

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Bill Turley says on Mar 4, 2008, 09:19:

If the contirbutions were voluntary until xx months of membership,then required unless there were mitigating factors, would not be a bad idea. If there was a system of checking bact to the IPS maybe duplicate signups could be nailed

Mr. Bill Somondoco

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vicshere says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:14:

idea you should have a way to rate a post....and have a separate are to check out most popular or high ranking posts...some of the posts on here lately are crap..if it wasnt for this chavaz shit we would be all asleep

listo

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CatGirl says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:20:

Peter- yes great board. After I read your attachment I will answer ;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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vicshere says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:31:

i like these points

Members are different than users. A pattern will arise in which there is some group of users that cares more than average about the integrity and success of the group as a whole. And that becomes your core group, Art Kleiner's phrase for "the group within. The core group on Communitree was undifferentiated from the group of random users that came in.
They were separate in their own minds, because they knew what they wanted to do, but they couldn't defend themselves against the other users. But in all successful online communities that I've looked at, a core group arises that cares about and gardens effectively. Gardens the environment, to keep it growing, to keep it healthy. the group that matters most."
Users have to be able to identify themselves and there has to be a penalty for switching handles. The penalty for switching doesn't have to be total. But if I change my handle on the system, I have to lose some kind of reputation or some kind of context. This keeps the system functioning.

listo

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 4, 2008, 10:33:

yeah - kinda like a strata system for user reputation! ;) LOL!

- not pickin on ya vicshere, just taking an opp! i happen to agree with you above.

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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CatGirl says on Mar 4, 2008, 13:19:

I think setting up a system where we add moderators and ask people to report their subjective opinions may create a lot of work and drama. Marking members as a troll would be a little like a witch hunt unless there are clear guidelines on what a member can report as "troll" activity. Sometimes troll activity is subjective. I also don't think the ISP comment would work either. I don't think that can be possible to it's exact meaning. What if a poster is in an internet cafe or elsewhere - the ISP address would be different - would not make sense.

My Suggestion:
Maybe verification of the newbies email address (mandatory) placed in registration before allowing them to start would help. Therefore they would be sent an email verifying they signed up for PBH and clarifying. The members can be tracked through viable email accounts, no duplicates.

What if newbies were required to read specific rules, guidelines, how to contact a moderator, who the moderators are etc... and agree upon them before they can complete their sign up - This way things are clearer. PBH has a very unique subculture, not your typical board from what i am learning.

Newbies could also be under a probationary period and more closley montiored by the Moderators, but not by the date they sign up but by the number of posts/comments as an indicator. As it appears some of the handles that are showing up out of nowhere were dormant for a few months...
The idea of a probationary period would not be that "we are monitoring you for being a troll" - more of a welcome wagon idea..to help the newbies understand the process.
And - also another suggestion. during the probationary period - maybe they should ony be allowed to post in certain topics until it is clear the newbies understand the purpose of the board. Again, I prefer the positive approach instead of "hunting for trolls approach".

So - no need to add mods, maybe just have them focus more on giving guidance towards the newbies
Ok - that's my suggestions for now

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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el flaco says on Mar 5, 2008, 02:08:

Peter: can you add a section on Ciudad Perdida on your travel notes, you mention it in the introduction but there is no information. I would like to add my notes on the trip.

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 06:05:

Peter is just trolling again....

Paying to be here will greatly hinder the traffic and criple the revenue generated by this site.

There are many boards out there that run just fine without having to re invent the wheel. Why? Because of the moderators.

IP address filtering will NEVER EVER work so suggesting that is a waste. Even one day when MAC address filtering is possible on the HHTP level it will quickly become circumvented using a proxy on your own machine.

A good idea may be that there should be two email addresses of new posters 1) primary with a verification process (no unlimited freebie hotmail, yahoo etc...) and the 2.) would be the contact yahoo,hotmail freebie. You can download domain names of all the freebies out there as an XML doc that can be loaded into the application at server start up. Update the list once a month should be fine.

When this joker was creating 5 PBH accounts a day I emailed Desi with a list. They are all but gone over time. This guy does not have 25 left he only has about 3.

A group is it's own worst enemy but also it's own best friend as the group only has the group so we are everything to each other. Occasionally tempers flare and things get heated. But that makes for good banter. How to keep things in control? Moderation, Moderation, Moderation.

Some of the other ideas require a good amount of programming work and the ROI will be minimal.

Adding a few good mods should do the trick.

PS: please add <blockquote> , <i> and <B> to your form input filter so we can make our posts more readable. If you need any programming work I'd be happy to help for free.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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aztec says on Mar 5, 2008, 07:00:

"Adding a few good mods should do the trick." rocinante

O.K. But please! Some political and philosophical diversity!

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:07:

I believe Roci is right; talking about this particular troll anyway.. basically all the names of that list have either checked out legit or been removed from the list of users.

Aztec, I don't really think political or philospohical diversity makes any difference; it's a matter of integrity and that has nothing with politics to do.

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:17:

.

I think if the Mods salary was increased to $150,000 from the current $125,000 per annum that they would concentrate more on the job...............

I think everything is all Desi's fault...................including today's weather.......

Comparing me to the Big Bad Wolf...................................Haa....

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:21:

This board would be so much better if Desi would just lay of the vino.

PS: Only two names on that list checked out.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:28:

Roci, MAC address filtering on HTTP level? Well, that's new my friend... :)

Detecting multiple handle posting from the same IP is a five minutes procedure. The mods already have the IP address on their screen.

Five minutes procedure is also finding out who is posting behind a public proxy.

Just this two would get rid of 95% of the troll.
Both procedures are implemented with success on colombianblog.

Heavier hands is also a successful method.

All this if you want to get rid of trolls, which I don't really care...
Now, in real life, if someone wants to get rid of RAAAY, just PM me, I'll give out his real name, address, etc.

"I am a citizen of the most beautiful nation on earth. A nation whose laws are harsh yet simple, a nation that never cheats, which is immense and without borders, where life is lived in the present."

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:47:

lol..............stop trying to hijack this post..............go back to posting in the Bolovian section...............go away......swat.....swat

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:47:

Oh, you huff and puff loudly enough, Raaaaaaay. Robi; I'm sending you a p.m. Roci, I see I get no respect here...perhaps I should be reconsidering the job offer from the competition...

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:54:

.................

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:57:

Can someone copy and paste what Ray is saying? I have him on ignore...

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webmanco says on Mar 5, 2008, 08:59:

Detecting multiple handle posting from the same IP is a five minutes procedure. The mods already have the IP address on their screen (robi666)

Changing you ip address is a matter of 2 minutes in some conections and a little longer in another ocasions.

Other forums got their flaws, ip managenmt beeing just one of them.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:00:

Ok, just for this time...

My phone is always on... ok, don't be nervous, just push the numbers and then push the green button...

Ok, forget it... I am calling you...

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:01:

"Changing you ip address is a matter of 2 minutes in some conections and a little longer in another ocasions."

That's the 5% that you won't detect.
Web, the ones I described are the only automatic procedures used on cblog. Why that board is so "clean"?

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2008, 09:57:

robi666, RAYY said that you have beautiful eyes

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:00:

Ooohhh, (reddening), maybe I should put him off ignore then...

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:03:

LOL

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 10:14:

.

Who is Robi...?......Is it a male or female ? Is this someone that posts here, or is some American's prepago......?

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Monpirri says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:10:

I really think we need more moderators. We could add more moderators who know about Colombia, if we add a couple of more moderators it will balance out more even the present philosophy besides moderators sometimes need to sleep and rest and obviously they cannot do a superb job if they are tired or lack sleep.
Please do not forget that more members will love to join pbh and two moderators are not enough.
I have three great Moderators for you: La_Mona, Lcacique and Robert Jorge

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:30:

"Detecting multiple handle posting from the same IP is a five minutes procedure. The mods already have the IP address on their screen." (robbi)

No it's not and no they do not. If the database is logging IP where? On sign up? On every sign in? On every post? Since when do you know the data model of the PBH tables? Bottom line is I can change my IP more often than I change my underwear. Why do you think hardly anyone uses this method? It's all talk "We'll block your IP" it will never accomplish anything and is not worth the application programming effort. Cblog is shrink wrapped software.

"Five minutes procedure is also finding out who is posting behind a public proxy." (robbi)

The proxy is private running on your local machine - not a public proxy. Anything can be injected into an HTTP request using a private proxy - including MAC address one day when server side programs actually parse that from the request header.

"Just this two would get rid of 95% of the troll. Both procedures are implemented with success on colombianblog." (robbi)

Cblog has little problems becuase of the extensive moderation.

"Heavier hands is also a successful method. It's the only one that really works."

And is instant and cheaper.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:40:

"I see I get no respect here...perhaps I should be reconsidering the job offer from the competition..." Desi

Would that be a job offer from Ernest and Julio Gallo or Boone's Farm? Just curious about the job market in your parts. Pretty recession "proof" eh?

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:49:

That crap ain't selling in these parts....

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:55:

So than just what are you stocking up on then....? Please don't make me find an image of "Night Train" or some other ripple.

Better yet lets save it for another thread on "What are you drinking in Colombia that is non Colombian"....

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 13:57:

Roci, I know what I am talking about, but no reason to put on a big tech debate here.... we'll talk about it in person... :)

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:05:

Robi says .....he knows what he is talking about..........hmmmm.......I'm lost for words....

But, on a more serious note................This is a great board and Peter has to be commended.
It must also be a pain sometimes for the Mods and maybe they feel it is not worth the $125,000 per year.

I belong to a few other un-related boards...............it seems that they have a lot more moderators..................without having Peter and his folks waste their time.....and possibly money also................why not experiment with an increase in the number of Mods............see how that works.................if not........try something else.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:07:

I agree with Monpirri, the site needs more moderators, and a very good IP Location Software (i gave Desi the site were Peter can choose the software he needs). Do you remember that one month ago I put an IP Code that detected exactly your Service Provider, the country, the city and the place from where you were writing ? I remember that all become worried, except Robi that understood what the hell I have done. So, if a guy like me can know from where are you writing...the Hosting Provider or Peter, with a very good software can know too.

I understand what you are saying Roci, but don't forget that the "media" of the people that writes in the Internet, doesn't have that knowledge of Tech nor Proxy, hidden, etc. The media are people without this knowledge. And the really hackers have best things to do that bother the PBH, they do another kind of things. But, is my opinion, and I respet yours.

With the IP Location Software, the Mods can know exactly not only the IP, either the location as well. An example, If I write with 20 accounts more, and from differents computers (at work, at home, cibers) Desi could detect me, because no matter what name I use to write, or from where I write, she ever would know my location...Buenos Aires. So, who other guy could be...? Of course is not the only way, but it helps a lot. Then if PBH have the bad luck that hackers wants to bother the site...well there is nothing to do against this.

Finally, a troll is very simple to detect: the newbies doesn't write and write and write a lot of Threads and posts...this is not common. So, don't write in this kind of threads. Ignore him.

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:14:

Thanks Lucas, of course I agree.

Plus, some months ago, Desi made a mistake and pasted a copy of her screen on PBH. It contained the IP addresses of the persons posting. That's how I know they have it already.

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:15:

Agreed, Robbi - no tech debate necessary.

BUT for those of you out there still hung up on the IP address thing...

Realize just because the information is coming in doesn't mean it is being recorded by the application.

If it is being recorded it may not be accessable to the application - without programming work.

If it is recorded and accessible, is the application processing the data? - again more programming work.

And if yes to all I can still change my IP again and again. And I can log in from an internet cafe. Lastly AOL uses the same IP for thousands of people. You start wiping out AOL IPs and you kill alot of folks randomly all in one sweep. Next day those people can all login as they will have a different IP - so the troll is able to return.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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Man Tequila says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:30:

Interesting article. I would not place money on who is the most paranoid person on PBH or if the core group here has much of a green thumb.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 5, 2008, 14:30:

You are welcome Robi. I know that you know a lot about Tech. Either Roci. I think the idea is to help Peter, and give him the instruments to fight against the trolls. About what Roci are saying, for example my ISP give me a different IP every day, but if Peter can detect my location...I will be unmasked. Not only the IP, the location helps too.

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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gringoloid says on Mar 5, 2008, 15:07:

Clyde for Moderator

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robi666 says on Mar 5, 2008, 17:29:

WOW!

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vicshere says on Mar 5, 2008, 17:36:

holy crap

listo

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podborski says on Mar 5, 2008, 18:11:

hijueputa

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 19:54:

¡Ay carumba!

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 19:56:

Oh oh..................

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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CatGirl says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:03:

Robbi: I agree with Roci...the IP address idea will not work - sorry.

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:21:

"Desi could detect me, because no matter what name I use to write, or from where I write, she ever would know my location...Buenos Aires. So, who other guy could be...?" - Lucas

I write internet security investment banking applications for the past 13 years. Sure let's just wipe out Buenos Aires. Sorry Podborski, just keeping out the trolls.

The "location" software approach (City is the lowest level) won't work for a single user pinpoint because the locations and ISPs are too broad and the expense of integrating this "hit or miss" software to the existing software would be huge and not worth it.

No offense but you guys are not programmers.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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rocinante says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:23:

"Trolls are a part of the Internet, akin to the urban eyesores of tagger graffiti or roadkill. A troll's power comes from the ability to disrupt the flow of conversation and cause chaos on the blogs.

Methods to permanently stop a troll are nonexistent. Each time a troll attack occurs, the call comes out to "IP ban!" and stop them for good. We do ban by IP, but what is not understood is that changing or masking ip address is not complicated. There is no permanent troll fix beyond community action, quick use of provided tools, and eternal vigilance"

Link: http://www.wunderground.com/blog/WunderBlogAdmin/comment.html?entrynum...

Why reinvent the wheel. Someone Google where IP adddress filtering - or even better - country/city detection - is working against trolls. IP banning made for a good threat 5 years ago.

"World economic indicators point to a democrat winning 2008. It will surely be Obama. Peso 1400 by November" Feb 5, 2008

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CatGirl says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:45:

Well, this is some constructive and supportive feedback. I hope leadership is responsive ;)

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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goin_south says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:47:

IP location software.. humm.. a lil like having GPS to find the fish again, eh?

Ciao! Gustav.

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RAAAY says on Mar 5, 2008, 20:50:

Roc.........two things.......
1. Myself and Robi and I think a few others are doing lunch tomorrow...........if you're up to it.

2. I'm not into the techie stuff............but it strikes me that more moderators would be an immediate fix to troll problems.

There was a thread a few weeks ago about trolls and what to do. I was one of those that said there was an entertainment factor and did'nt have a problem with them. Others had problems for various reasons.

I read Palm's long post just before it was deleated. S**t, he mentioned me a lot. Now, I don't feel the way I felt before. Their entertainment value is not worth the hassle they cause. This guy would never be identified as a troll if he just continued with normal posts and comments. The problem with him is, he very quickly begins to throw insults and be generally disruptive.

He is of course, still here. Yes, right now at this moment. He is as obvious as shit on a shoe. But so far, in his current re-incarnation he is being careful and has not begun to be an ass. In this new re-incarnation, he began posting and commenting before he introduced Palm.

I don't want to be labeled as the troll cop.............and if he's not being a p***k................why bother ?

We'll see how he behaves under his current two active handles.

I suggest more mods...........and raise Desi's salary by $25,000 up to $150,000...........when you read her stuff......she is obviously one smart lady.............and someone who comes across as a real sound person.

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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CatGirl says on Mar 5, 2008, 21:17:

Yes I agree Desi is a smart lady ;)

Funny too

Love and Time: the only two things that cannot be bought, but only spent

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webmanco says on Mar 5, 2008, 21:24:

Forget about ip software, just issue each moderator one of Traveling Girl mini guns, :-)

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 5, 2008, 21:42:

"raise Desi's salary by $25,000 up to $150,000" Thank you, Ray.
I second that motion.
How nice of you robi to tell everybody.
Web, I take that gun now. (now before anybody is going to flame me for death threats I have to make it clear that I'd use that Traveler Girl Mini Gun only for self-defense.)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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webmanco says on Mar 5, 2008, 22:48:

Here is a sample letter for trolls

http://www.all-encompassingly.com/annoying-commenter-from-brazil.html

Annoying Commenter,

Merry Christmas.

We hope that you are able to celebrate this holiday with your friends and family, not simply commenting on strangers' blogs.

Sincerely,

Doug and Travis

P.S. We apologize to anyone in Brazil who is erroneously getting this page. Unfortunately, Annoying Commenter is determined to continue wasting our time. If you would like to visit all-encompassingly.com, we suggest moving to Argentina.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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huskie says on Mar 6, 2008, 01:32:

Please get rid of Buggy
Cheers

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds-"

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tejasmarcos says on Mar 6, 2008, 04:45:

roci seems to know his chit. maybe he should mod a bit?

trying to walk a straight line on sour mash and cheap wine...

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gringoloid says on Mar 6, 2008, 08:16:

Peter......................would it be possible for new accounts to go on 'full moderation'.

another words a mod would review a new account before it showed up in the forums. it would only be for a few hours at the most, so urgent newbies could get their question answered quickly.

a troll like medoblado only wants attention and he along with any other troll would quickly tire of posting here.

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RAAAY says on Mar 6, 2008, 08:22:

gringo...........Medo will not tire of posting..............he continues to do so using two active handles..................began before he introduced Palm to us............very prolific poster.................but being nice..........

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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gringoloid says on Mar 6, 2008, 08:39:

eventually he will run out of accounts............he also has a method of operation that is easily detectable. what time does he come on? 6 or 7 pm usually. he can be zapped very easily.

all other trolls without multiple accounts..............Zapped before they even get into the forums.

this is quite easily solved with no new software, etc.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Mar 6, 2008, 08:51:

It looks like I'm his main enemy and he waits until I'm off; I usually let him out in the morning (my time), around midnight Eastern. This has become fairly established routine, but I agree with *Loid, he can't have a lot of handles left (I deleted 2 yesterday).
I also agree with a screening the new accounts, a verifiable e-mail address and IP address check up, at least plus perhaps a probational period. But that requires new software and we'll have to do with what we have right now. With your co-operation of course, Peter, Colombiche and myself will have the situation under control with the tools we have, providing we find the time to scan these forums most of the day and night. The geographical spread makes it easier since there's always one of us awake:)

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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podborski says on Mar 6, 2008, 10:44:

can't we trace the troll's IP address and location and call in some air support to blast him? Then we could send RAAAY and Robi in to get the body and his laptop and see who he really was and who was supporting him. Probably Chavez.

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aztec says on Mar 6, 2008, 15:05:

"it's a matter of integrity" Desideria

Perhaps you are right. I have never questioned your integrity. On the contrary, I suspect you have intentionally held back on some issues so you would not prejudice the argument.

While I find myself on the opposite side of your views of man versus the state I still would pick you as a person to be stranded with alone on an island. You would not be boring!

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RAAAY says on Mar 6, 2008, 15:11:

podborski says.

.." Then we could send RAAAY and Robi in to get the body "

Pod.....best I go alone.......Robi ( pictured below ) would'nt be much help.

.

Robi

.

.........Its useless to argue with ignorance

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Lucas Freley says on Mar 6, 2008, 16:12:

Rocinante, todo bien. No me siento ofendido ni mucho menos. Si trabajas en seguridad informatica es seguro que sabes de lo que hablas. Encriptacion, criptografia, firma digital, etc., todas esas medidas tecnologicas que se adoptan para proteger los sistemas bancarios, tienen su jusitificacion porque es necesario cumplir con el Standard de normas de seguridad de protección de datos personales, y los Bancos son víctimas a diario de ataques de intrusión, de hackers, crackers, delitos informáticos, etc. Y acá si que los intrusos son verdaderos ingenieros de sistemas que crean los antisistemas para poder cometer sus ilícitos. Un hacker no es sino un programador de sistemas que prueba fallas de vulnerabilidad.

Lo que yo digo es que en un sitio de Internet, los que escriben, mayormente son adolescentes, viajeros, y también gente mayor (bueno PBH es la prueba de ello) sin mayores conocimientos en el tema, es decir Begginers. Vos lo dijiste muy bien, Robi y yo no somos programadores, y eso que sabemos y bastante del tema. El resto, ni siquiera tiene idea de lo que estamos hablando. Hace un mes se me ocurrió poner un código de detección de IP...y todo el mundo se volvió loco !!!!!!! Y como dije, el único que sabía lo que había hecho era Robbi.

Ahora bien, si PBH tuvo la mala suerte de cruzarse con un Hacker, entonces no hay nada que hacer, porque ese tipo seguramente no va a parar hasta hacer voltear el sitio. Pero si los trolls de aca solo son Bogus, Lamers, Leechers o Lusers, entonces no hay porque preocuparse. Con un buen detector se acaba el asunto.

Hoy que estás esplendida y que todo lo iluminas, demos un paseo, vuelta por el Universo (Gustavo Cerati)

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robi666 says on Mar 6, 2008, 16:24:

Well, I was a programmer, then a system engineer, then I owned a software Internet company then... just a sailor, now a daddy... who promised "never into that shit again"... :)

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scotty says on Mar 6, 2008, 19:12:

This site has been in the past a dman good site, now it has problems, i could go into a long post explaining what i think the problems are here but i see no reason for me to do that, i think it would be wasted breath.
Anyone that has been on this site for any length of time knows what the problems are and who causes most the problems and who allows most of this to take place.
I for one am a little tired of the favortism, tired of the personal attacks, and tired of the inmaturity.
Therefore i have decided to cut back on my PBH participation, i will on occasion come on PBH surf the posts see if there is anything readable or useful to me, i may even on occasion post something, but i am not going to produce the amount of participation that i have in the past.
Peter good luck getting this all worked out.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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Man Tequila says on Mar 6, 2008, 19:16:

That sounds wise, Scotty. It's not worth getting very upset about stuff on a message board.

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Monpirri says on Mar 6, 2008, 20:15:

Peter, I highly recommend for Moderator: La_Mona, Lcacique and Robert Jorge.
They are very articulated and pretty knowledgeable about Colombia and they do not have a previous history,

In God I trust.

Annette Taddeo for US Congress 2008

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