A Good Egg or A Bad Egg

sandramoreno80 says on Apr 13, 2007, 11:20:

We don't have eggs in the supermarket fridges here in the UK either, they are on a normal shelf.

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oldbongo says on Apr 13, 2007, 11:21:

your first mistake... is asking "why".

never ask why? in colombia.

secondly, fresh eggs are sold all over the world, unrefrigerated.
the explanation is turnover, first in, first out.

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JMCana says on Apr 13, 2007, 11:24:

Chicken experts The most knowledgeable experts I have found are at www.earthshinefarm.com

The owners run their own organic farm, have served on numerous University ag committees, many articles written about them and they are frequent contributors to NPR. Plus they are just nice people who research the heck out of their stuff. Their web page has a contact tab. But be prepared they may tell you more than you want to know.

Oh yes, and their chickens are excellent.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2007, 11:51:

oldbongo says on Apr 13, 2007, 12:08:

the funny thing in british colombia.. is,we buy them in the store refrigerated, and then
as soon as we come home,they go into a basket on the counter.
go figure.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2007, 12:21:

oldbongo says on Apr 13, 2007, 12:30:

thats' my job.. first, you get the girl dizzy.
then, you crack the eggs and mix them up too,
then, you make la tortilla costena.
con picante y suero

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2007, 12:35:

miamimike says on Apr 13, 2007, 12:46:

Eggs may contain the Bacteria Salmonella and if left unrefrigerated at room temp this encourages bacterial growth. Trouble is, even in an uncracked Egg, you don't know which Egg may contain Salmonella as its prescence isn't visible.

USDA On Eggs: http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Focus_On_Shell_Eggs/index.asp


Exerpt from above:

"Why Should Eggs Be Refrigerated?
Temperature fluctuation is critical to safety. With the concern about Salmonella, eggs gathered from laying hens should be refrigerated as soon as possible. After eggs are refrigerated, they need to stay that way. A cold egg left out at room temperature can sweat, facilitating the growth of bacteria. Refrigerated eggs should not be left out more than 2 hours."

What's the difference between a pitbull and a hockey mom? Lipstick.Sarah PalinAcceptance speech at 2008 Republican National Convention, on selection as party's vice-presidential candidate.

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oldbongo says on Apr 13, 2007, 12:47:

you sure got a funny way of showing it... ain't it always the same..
she says she will, then she won't.
abrazos, besitos, fotos, ....nada.

if oldbongo wasn't so old and weak anyway, he'd send
porky over there to break up your little arrangement with elmo.

just for spite.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2007, 12:49:

oldbongo says on Apr 13, 2007, 13:11:

liar, liar!!!...mentira!!! you are shameless!!!!!!!

never trust a costena,...she will break your heart,
just as easy as cracking an egg.
...that is, until your old heart gets calcified, like oldbongos',
and becomes impervious to the charms on offfer.

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kat1 (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2007, 13:16:

poco says on Apr 13, 2007, 13:57:

That's why a chicken ranch is necessary Refrigerated eggs should not be left out more than 2 hours.

How many Colombians get Salmonella ? How many die of it? Is initial refrigeration the cause? Is it blamed on Brujas? Can someone slip you a bad egg and collect your life insurance?

I kind of feel sorry for those who can't have a chicken ranch. Flirting death. I keep one happy rooster and one chicken per person.


Never turn your back on a cock.

Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.

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oldbongo says on Apr 13, 2007, 13:59:

sorry,...dear. oldbongo got so scared, he had to run to the kitchen and throw out all the salmonellaeggs that were rotting on the counter.
now he only has to work out the special charm required to teleport
his magnetissmo over the pond.
he's workin on it, but for now, he must return to la cocina to create
more magic for the hungry.
maybe, if he ever got to see the foto, he could fly,... like porky.
maybe, if ifs and buts were candies and nuts, everyday would be xmas.
....back to the bong...oldbongo.

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miamimike says on Apr 13, 2007, 14:27:

Poco How many people get Salmonella or other types of Food/water borne illnesses caused by improperly stored Food or Water that hasn't been treated you ask? Storage/Refrigeration Recommendations on Eggs as well as the science behind it are pretty clear on that link I posted. Incidence of Infection; Hard to say as where would one find a study on the Numbers on Colombia? Personally speaking, I have had it 2 different times in Colombia since '95 and ended up on Antibiotics each time for it. And I consider myself careful as far as what I eat or drink,,,I suspect it happens a lot more then we think,,,Like one of my favorite actors Clint Eastwood once Uttered,,,"Do you feel Lucky Today",,,LOL

BTW, that protective coating on a freshly dropped egg is known as the "Cuticle" but has nothing to do with protecting an Egg from Salmonella(within),,,or prolonging its shelf life,,,

What's the difference between a pitbull and a hockey mom? Lipstick.Sarah PalinAcceptance speech at 2008 Republican National Convention, on selection as party's vice-presidential candidate.

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Man Tequila says on Apr 13, 2007, 15:11:

Never thought about this much. Eggs can indeed contain Salmonella, and refrigeration would help bacterial growth. As a medical guy, I know the importance of keeping people from getting food poisoning. As a traveller, I know there is an immense amount of paranoia about food handling in North America and that people have been able to manage for thousands of years without refrigeration.

A quick google search reveals that eggs can be stored in a cold cellar for months. Eggs naturally have a cuticle, but even the USDA discusses procedures where eggs can be kept for months by adding an additional coating of lard or sodium silicate providing the eggs are coated while fresh, and none of the coated eggs has even the tiniest crack. Details are given here:
http://www.geocities.com/heartland/hills/9684/egg.html

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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ColombianoGringo (Moderator) (Trustee board) (☼Travelguide writer) says on Apr 13, 2007, 15:48:

miamimike says on Apr 13, 2007, 16:02:

Happens here in Miami all the time,,, Everyday well known and not so well Restaurants are getting nailed/cited for this same type of thing, not only Latin American Countries.. Its to the point I rarely eat out anymore and if I do its at a Kosher establishment where food Standards/cleanliness are much higher. I like Restaurants like Subway where I can visually observe the Food Prep Area as well as the fact that those Guys are wearing gloves who are preparing my Sandwich. If I don't like the appearence of what I see, I can leave....In reality, Miami Restaurants and Food handlers are some of the dirtiest and Unsanitary in the USA. And that goes for the South Beach Tourist area as well,,,

Man_Tequilla--Refrigeration would Help Retard Microbial/bacteria growth, not help it(unless you meant to retard growth),,,Those Cellars we used to refer to(here in the usa) as Fruit Cellars actually ARE a form of Refrigeration and have very stable cool(not cold)temperatures that Bacteria do not thrive in,,,Some Backwoods folks as well as campers(I do this myself) submerge my perishable like eggs, Milk,butter in ice cold mountain spring water to prevent spoilage and bacterial growth.

What's the difference between a pitbull and a hockey mom? Lipstick.Sarah PalinAcceptance speech at 2008 Republican National Convention, on selection as party's vice-presidential candidate.

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Man Tequila says on Apr 13, 2007, 16:21:

I meant refrigeration would help bacterial growth from the perspective of the guy about to eat the egg, not the typhus growing inside the yolk.

In practical terms, bacterial growth in eggs is minimal below 7 degrees Celsius and increases with temperature -- the growth rate is more than 25 times higher at 42 degrees Celsius. This growth rate can be approximately mathematically by a modified Arrhenius equation where growth rate is proportional to b(T-T0)^2, and b and T0 are constants depending on the bacteria. A more detailled discussion for temperature versus Salmonella growth rates can be found here.

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1046/j.1365-2672.1998.00410.x

The conclusion is there is darn good reason to keep eggs below 7 degrees Celsius, or cooler rather than warmer, unless they are coated properly for protection.

Man Tequila, MD, B.Eng

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 13, 2007, 16:41:

Anyone who thinks that you can leave eggs out indefinitely should try having a few laying hens roosting at large. You'll find eggs that have been out for months gone bad - there's a reason they refer to that "rotten egg" smell.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on Apr 13, 2007, 17:12:

Tequilla and UTC Agreed,,,I'll take my eggs refrigerated,,,LOL

What's the difference between a pitbull and a hockey mom? Lipstick.Sarah PalinAcceptance speech at 2008 Republican National Convention, on selection as party's vice-presidential candidate.

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 13, 2007, 19:20:

My wife is astonished that eggs are refrigerated here in the US. When I lived in Colombia, I was astonished that eggs were NOT refrigerated. At least speaking for my wife's entire extended family and everybody else I ever met in Colombia (which was mainly just Villavo), they do not refrigerate eggs. Period. The eggs are left in a tray on or under the kitchen counter. My wife said eggs are not refrigerated in Colombia, because people think a refrigerated egg doesn't taste as good. Personally, I'll sacrifice a little flavor for a lower risk of sickness or death.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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goin_south says on Apr 14, 2007, 00:50:

I think it is only because... those eggs don't last so long in colombia without CONsumption... So, no es problema. In America... they are a bunch of spoiled eggs... and they let their eggs sit .... howbeit, in de fridge.

When I was 20, I was worried about what everyone thought. When I was 40, I didn't care what anyone thought. When I was 50, I realized... NO ONE WAS EVER THINKING ABOUT ME :-))

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Man Tequila says on Apr 14, 2007, 12:10:

Food handling is a valid public health concern, but like I said, also a source of LOTS of paranoia. If eggs are consumed within the first few days, probably not much of an issue. In Canada, when I buy eggs they may sit a month in the fridge before I use 'em (or longer if they pass the "float test"). In Toronto, Public Health won't let people sell any food on the street besides sausage, which is pretty ridiculous. I've eaten dicey street foods in dozens of countries, only time I got gastro was in Beijing.

But I'll keep my eggs in the fridge. A cold cellar would be as good.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 15, 2007, 00:43:

I "did as the Romans do", and ate eggs that were stored unrefrigerated for at least 2 weeks when I lived in Colombia. I felt wierd about it at first, but everybody else did it, so I went along. I never got sick.

The only time I had a gastro problem, was due to one of two things ... maybe both. One day, I ate maracuya for the first time. That same night, I ate street vendor, self packaged peanuts. Which-ever got me, I was in the bathroom the next day and for the next 4 days every 2 hours. I was scared to ever eat maracuya again ... but I have a feeling it was the street peanuts. The first two days produced the undigestable, black, spider egg seeds of the fruit. But the agony went on for 2 or 3 more days more at least. So it probably was the peanuts.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 11:51:

jorge, you just needed a lil pitaya to flush it all away ;)

Imagine...it's easy.

When I was 20, I was worried about what everyone thought. When I was 40, I didn't care what anyone thought. When I was 50, I realized... NO ONE WAS EVER THINKING ABOUT ME :-))

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Man Tequila says on Apr 15, 2007, 15:35:

I didn't read ANY posts that said people were dropping dead every five minutes. Most folks acknowledged they ate unrefrigerated eggs and didn't get sick. Methods of keeping eggs safer were discussed without paranoia.

But on one hand, we have a nice little study showing how bacteria grow with temperature. On the other hand, we have your unproven assertions that eggs take a month to get to the store (refrigerated trucks only come twelve times a year?) in the US and only four days in Colombia. It's harder than you presume to prove outbreaks are due to Salmonella and not something else, and it is not a given food handling practices in South America would change if people were getting Salmonella from unrefrigerated eggs. More likely they'd blame something else -- say that the eggs always came from the hen three days ago and couldn't be responsible.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 15, 2007, 16:22:

There was an egg ... farm? - outside of my hometown in Indiana when I was growing up. I remember touring the "Cackle-house" on a field trip. At least then, the eggs were laid, and trucked out to area grocery stores within a day. I doubt things are much different now. Rocinante, what you said makes sense though - and besides questioning your eggs sitting for a month in the US before hitting the shelves of a grocery store theory, I would say you made excellent points. Again, with fear at first, I ate eggs that sat out for a couple of weeks in Colombia. Never had a hint of sickness. I just never knew what the deal was. Thanks for the info and explanation.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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Man Tequila says on Apr 15, 2007, 18:41:

I am also opinionated and abrasive. It ruffles the feathers by times but is better than having no opinion, or worse, aggreeing with everybody else's.

I don't disagree with of your ideas, though you exaggerate for effect. But most of the people who posted to this thread don't disagree with your ideas either, and in fact said much the same thing. Plus que change, and no one's established whether there really is a coating or not (though if consumed within days, it doesn't matter).

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 21:49:

While some may say you both are eggheads... It seems to me, you are both EGGSPERTS.

Imagine...it's easy.

When I was 20, I was worried about what everyone thought. When I was 40, I didn't care what anyone thought. When I was 50, I realized... NO ONE WAS EVER THINKING ABOUT ME :-))

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 15, 2007, 22:01:

When I had laying hens I used to get them pretty much fresh from the hens' ass. I still put them in the fridge. Hell I used to have people buy my eggs who didn't like how bright the yolks were - they preferred the drab yellow of the commercial eggs. Go figure.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Man Tequila says on Apr 15, 2007, 22:19:

Or at least eggscentric.
Or at least eggscentric.

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 15, 2007, 23:51:

Wow, I learned something new again. I had no idea eggs came out of a chicken's rectum. I assumed it was a vaginal birth. So the egg is formed in the same place chicken shit comes from? Or is the ass pipe just a "port of exit," with the egg being developed somewhere else in the hen? I guess all poultry could be literally referred to as, "asshole babies."

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 23:54:

no comment; I'll get deleted.
Again.

Imagine...it's easy.

When I was 20, I was worried about what everyone thought. When I was 40, I didn't care what anyone thought. When I was 50, I realized... NO ONE WAS EVER THINKING ABOUT ME :-))

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goin_south says on Apr 15, 2007, 23:56:

And, I'm thinkin Desideria-Delete is working like Three Strikes and Your OUT!

Imagine...it's easy.

When I was 20, I was worried about what everyone thought. When I was 40, I didn't care what anyone thought. When I was 50, I realized... NO ONE WAS EVER THINKING ABOUT ME :-))

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Robert Jorge says on Apr 16, 2007, 06:42:

You might be on to something el feliz.

"You can not take the barrio out of the girl you really can't." Oneforamillion

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nick b. says on Apr 16, 2007, 07:09:

Salmonella ..that protective coating on a freshly dropped egg is known as the "Cuticle" but has nothing to do with protecting an Egg from Salmonella(within),,, There is still samonella on the shell,if you use raw eggs (tiramisu etc..) and cook for several older people,wash youre hands,work with a temper.below 4 celsius !!

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miamimike says on Apr 16, 2007, 08:17:

That protective coating known as the Cuticle was mentioned several posts back,(around 17 posts back). I'll stick to USDA Guidelines and their science behind the refrigeration of Eggs. As they say, Salmomella can be present in an Uncracked Egg and heat will only hasten the growth process of Salmonella if its already present and left in a warm enviroment. I guess I never should have taken those pre-Med Microbiology courses, maybe one is better off NOT knowing at times,,,LOL

An example-my Dad's grandmother swore as a Treatment for a Bee sting the best Home remedy was placing Cold Mud immediately on the sting. While this helped it could also introduce bacteria into the sting, worseing the problem, howvever that never happened it always helped, especially when Gramma did it! LOL The upside was within the mud was a beneficial bacteria that helped alleviate the painful effects of the sting. It worked! It works!

What's the difference between a pitbull and a hockey mom? Lipstick.Sarah PalinAcceptance speech at 2008 Republican National Convention, on selection as party's vice-presidential candidate.

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Desideria (Moderator) (Trustee board) says on Apr 16, 2007, 08:56:

We refrigerate our eggs in Scandinavia. Unwashed eggs can be stored in a cool storage room for weeks and nothing happens to them, but as soon as you wash them they'll have to be refrigerated. Since nobody buys shitty-looking eggs they are always washed when sold to the stores. This means that ALL SUPERMARKET BOUGHT EGGS SHOULD BE REFRIGERATED, here there and in between. My friends in Cali keep their eggs on the kitchen counter. I put them in the fridge.

Cheers,
Desi

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe
they are free." —Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

A fronte praecipitium a tergo lupi

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nick b. says on Apr 16, 2007, 10:44:

hehe, if you use youre eggs above 67 (c.) degrees you wil be ok.

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Lostgringo says on Apr 16, 2007, 11:40:

Eggs in Colombia Ok now that we arr talking about eggs and how fresh they are how can you tell? I was always told that if the egg white is runny the egg is not fresh. I am sure about the color of the yolk. What I am sure about is that these eggs are damn hard to turn over without breaking the yolk! I bought some very large eggs this week. The shell is large but the yolk is basically the same. Lots and lots of egg white! When I crack one open the egg white goes all over the place like it was water. I am thinking the eggs are old. But all the eggs I have bought so far are the same. I just can't seem to turn these puppies over without having scrambled eggs lol.


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goin_south says on Apr 16, 2007, 13:12:

good choice, esanch, You don't want to be 'caught, looking'...at strike 3!

...it's easy, if you try.

When I was 20, I was worried about what everyone thought. When I was 40, I didn't care what anyone thought. When I was 50, I realized... NO ONE WAS EVER THINKING ABOUT ME :-))

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nick b. says on Apr 16, 2007, 13:33:

explain:don't want to be 'caught, looking'...at strike 3 etc.. I only understand sports like football(soccer).. and my English is probably as bad as you're Chinese.

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nick b. says on Apr 16, 2007, 13:44:

??...right .

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nick b. says on Apr 16, 2007, 13:58:

I am going to print this page for my colleages .

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Colombiano_81 says on Apr 16, 2007, 14:01:

here is Spain they dont refrigerate milk or eggs in the grocery store or at home ( the milk).

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