A Few Dumb Colombians

billyb says on May 9, 2006, 17:09:

Maybe next... they'll try to penetrate the Singaporean market.

BillyB

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SingSling says on May 9, 2006, 17:50:

No more stupid than anywhere in Asia, death in many ways would be preferable to 30 years in the Bangkok Hilton.

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Gomezman5 says on May 9, 2006, 18:53:

Can't agree Big A Let me say this. Of course people don't think that they are going to get caught. However, if you are going to deal in drugs, it makes no sense...none whatsoever to be dealing in a country, where the penalty for dealing, even for the first time, is death.

No amount of profit is worth risking your life. So, you're right, that logical mind of mine has got put things in perspective again.

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utopiacowboy says on May 9, 2006, 18:59:

Gman, you're asking all the wrong questions. The real issue is are they happy? Sure they may be facing death but I bet they're the happiest guys on Death Row. Next to the Nigerians, of course.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on May 9, 2006, 19:11:

Gomezman-if they had a Sting like that here in the Miami Area.. you would see some Real Fancy Homes in Key Biscayne, Adventura, Westchester, Weston, Kendall & Coral Gables going up for sale real Quick. Some Humvees and Esplanades along with the fancy houses....

I beleive if anyone is caught pushing drugs in Saudi Arabia(as well as other ME countries) they punishment is at the least, cutting off arms & hands in the Public Square at Noon. No Big Problem with Drugs observed in those nations...

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Gomezman5 says on May 9, 2006, 19:50:

miamimike........ You are right, the harsher the punishment, the chances of having a serious drug problem are greatly dimished.

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poco says on May 9, 2006, 21:03:

Oh my gosh, where are the human rights guys? I saw the Chinese drug bust earlier on TV. It was mentioned they “faced death charges�.

I wonder what “faced� means? Do they make them face you when a bullet is put in their head? Maybe they don’t use blindfolds? China executes drug smugglers on a regular basis. This is one of many things I admire about the Chinese.

China seems to have melded a socialist – capitalistic system that is functional. Not much trouble over there, not lots of murders, bombings and mental stress on the population. The government has the population increases under control. Everyone has a job, even if it’s only a water buffalo, rice paddy and thatch hut. Nice to know there is a place for everyone, even the uneducated. A regular government controlled socialist Marxist utopia.

Is there any chance they’ll have nude Chinese protesters?

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Rubiazo says on May 9, 2006, 21:28:

I think that China is a fucking barbaric country the way they treat people over there. I also think it is in for the biggest bloodiest civil war the world has ever seen!!

Of course they have a good historical reason for being so harsh on drugs. They still remember 100 years ago when the Brits got them all hooked on opium and then just basically marched in.

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poco says on May 10, 2006, 00:02:

I think China is on the right track
I think that China is a fucking barbaric country the way they treat people over there.

Sorry but there is a high probability you are entirely wrong. The best scenario is economic problems caused by their internal lending and financing practices and to a less degree the debt they hold from other countries. This shouldn’t result in a major loss of time.

Chinese Drug Bust - Chinese paper
Chinese Drug Policy

A civil war in China,, that is funny. There are no NGO’s allowed in China. Organized Religion is considered a NGO. There are only a few “older� folks who remember “religion�. There is NO TOLERENCE for anything believed disruptive to their culture and especially the state.

China has been increasing it’s capabilities for at least 25 years. I was working on packaged anhydrous ammonia plants in the mid 70’s. Look to see who was involved,, you’ll love it. :)

Isn’t that amazing. Found an article about the plants Kellog first in China with 8 package plants Thank you Mr. Nixon.

This reminds me,, Walmart is BOOMING and Coke,, same thing along with the large numbers of other business,, you know,, those entities w/o an agenda except to make a profit. I think Walmart projected 150,000 Chinese employees by 2010. If there ever was a cosmic joke,, this is it.

You could write some letters,, I’m sure they’d listen. Better yet,, go on over an unionize those evil folks. Maybe you get the government of ?????? to help you out. Maybe get a few of your buddies to chip in the cost of an airline ticket and take care of the problem yourself?

I’m still hoping for a nude protest.

PS: Don’t make me post links off all the companies like Boeing, Google, Microsoft, humm probably all the fortune 500 companies,, just to name a few.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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redway says on May 10, 2006, 01:20:

Mainland China is a DISGUSTING place. There are no animal rights and very limited human rights. I wouldn't go there on a vacation that was given to me. I wouldn't spend a penny there. Have you heard of the hundreds of "animal markets"? Dogs in pens are freezing, starving and then slaughtered, after being skinned alive. I HOPE there is a civil war and they all kill each other.
The two colombianos sitting in jail for the above bust are as good as dead. They are 27 and 32 years old.
P.S. Rubiazo is absolutely right about the Brits and the opium trade.

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Gomezman5 says on May 10, 2006, 02:11:

We got off topic.....but Rubi and Redway are right on point.

The interesting, perhaps most interesting part about the China experiment, is that all of our foreign investment over there was supposed to bring the country around to a capitalistic society, and more importantly an increase in human rights and freedoms. Their crack down and imprisoning of members of the Falun Gong is a perfect example. In fact, recent reports show that the communist rule is as tight or tighter than it was before we started out sourcing, and shipping our manufacturing operations over there.

Suffice to say, those who theorized that the Chinese would "come around", were wrong. Abuses continue, and I also don't know how much of that new wealth is trickling down to the average Chinese person.

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SingSling says on May 10, 2006, 06:22:

Trickle Down Same as the USA then??

Cracks me up threads like this, I have been going to China for the last 5/6 years and I can assure you it has changed significantly even in that short period of time. I have little time for the regime in place there but compared to any time in China's long history people are less controlled and better off materially now. Hong Kong has not been overrun, Shanghai is about the most happening place on the planet and Shenzen is a boomtown the likes of which hasn't been seen in the West for a hundred years.

In the same way you will find articles in the Western press harping on about the 'troubles' in Colombia and nothing else you will find articles about Falun Gong and repression in China, like Colombia it isn't the whole story.

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Rubiazo says on May 10, 2006, 07:48:

It isn't the WHOLE story and there is no denying that people are MATERIALLY better off, but it is precisely because of that that they are in for some shit they have never seen before.

China now has something it really never had to anywhere near this extent before in its history: wealth disparity. This disparity is BOUND to bring violence, it even says so in their own Tao Teh King :)

You have to remember, despite China's explosive growth, it is still among the world's poorest nations in terms of GDP per capita. Even Latin America is still ahead of it in that regard, except for maybe Honduras and Bolivia. But that's exactly my point, when Latin America was a lot poorer there was a lot less violence than there is now. Latin American violence (with the possible exception of Colombia actually) is generally not an old tradition, but rather a recent phenomenon, precisely brought on by rapid and uneven economic developmnet that leaves a lot of people still in the dark.

When you are broke and your neighbor's also broke there is nothing to steal, but if you are still brokw and now your neighbor is living in a mansion, you're going to be jealous and he's going to be afraid :)

Not to mention those that are the haves in China now that they are no longer worrying about where the next bowl of rice is coming from are now going to start demanding the same rights and freedoms most of the rest of the world enjoys. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if a Chinese version of the FARC is already in operation over there!

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SingSling says on May 10, 2006, 08:04:

Strange analysis What China has now that it hasn't had before is a middle class, ie weathly people who are not part of the ruling classes. There is more wealth disparity in the USA than anywhere else on the planet, there isn't a one to one correlation beween the Gini index and violence, Latin America and China have such a different history its not remotely comparable.

China and Asia in general does not have a history of peasants rising up in revolt, usually violence is between warlords or different ethnic groups. It seems that a couple of people on this board have a certain bloodlust for civil war in China, having travelled extensively in the Far East I would say it is one of the least likely places for that to happen.

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Mr. Hollywood says on May 10, 2006, 08:10:

Please explain This is all really fascinating but could someone please explain, in a historical context, this comment "China and Asia in general does not have a history of peasants rising up in revolt"

Mao, Viet Nam, Pol Pot...

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poco says on May 10, 2006, 08:48:

The Chinese haven’t institutionalized this culture Should Colombia legitimize drugs and become a DRUG STATE the money would roll in. Receiving an education will become less important because Nirvana is just over the horizion.

Simply get your suitcase of cash into the country and it can be tendered at state controlled banks, converted and transferred legally around the world. What would the state charge for this convenience? 10% to the “state�, directly into their foreign accounts ? Could they get more? I wonder how the “trickle down� effect will work?

Would they use the metric system in the spanish translation for answers to this test if adopted in Colombia?


CITY OF DETROIT - REVISED HIGH SCHOOL MATH PROFICIENCY EXAM (ENGLISH VERSION)

NAME______________________________



GANG NAME________________________


1) Jose has 2 ounces of cocaine. If he sells an 8 ball to Antonio for $320 and 2 grams to Juan for $85 per gram, what is the street value of the rest of his hold?



2) Rubio pimps 3 hoes. If the price is $85 per trick, how many tricks per day must each ho turn to support Rufus' $800 per day crack habit?


3) Jerome wants to cut the pound of cocaine he bought for $40,000 to make 20% profit. How many ounces will he need?


4) Willie gets $200 for a stolen BMW, $150 for stealing a Corvette, and $100 for a 4x4. If he steals 1 BMW, 2 Corvettes, and 3 4x4's, how many more Corvettes must he steal to have $900?


5) Raoul got 6 years for murder, He also got $10,000 for the hit.
If his common-law wife spends $100 per month, how much money will be left
when he gets out?
**Extra credit question: How much more time will he
get for killing the ho that spent his money??

6) If an average can of spray paint covers 22 square feet and the average letter is 3 square feet , how many letters can be sprayed with 3 eight ounce cans of spray paint?

7) Hector knocked up 3 girls in the gang. There are 27 girls in his gang. What is the exact percentage of girls Hector knocked up?

8) Bernie is a lookout for the gang. Bernie has a boa constrictor that eats 3 small rats per week at a cost of $5 per rat. if Bernie makes $700 a week as a lookout, how many rats can he feed the boa with one week's salary?

9) Billy steals Joe's skateboard. As Billy skates away at 35 mph, Joe loads his 357 Magnum. If it takes Joe 20 seconds to load his Magnum, how far away will Billy be when he gets whacked?

REMEMBER: SAY NO TO DRUGS, GOOD LUCK & NO TALKING

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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johna says on May 10, 2006, 08:58:

good test unfortunately they would probably do better on the test in Gross Point. Not only do actually have math textbooks to study and get the basics down, but they also are the ones buying and using most of the drugs coming out of big bad black D-town.

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Rubiazo says on May 10, 2006, 09:39:

Wealth disparity is higher in almost all of Latin America than it is in the USA. Brazil is and has been for a long time #1 worldwide in wealth disparity. China is gaining rapidly though.

It doesn't matter what people have a history of either. Human nature is the same across the board.

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johna says on May 10, 2006, 10:09:

I agree with Rubiazo that disparity in the division of resources causes conflict. But that disparity has been caused by historical forces, therefore the history of a people is valid. Brazil for example was the last country in the new world to officially ban slavery.

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SingSling says on May 10, 2006, 10:28:

Gini Index http://homepage.mac.com/phil_giltner/Gini.html

Gives a list sorted by disparity of wealth.

And history does matter, the wealth disparity in the USA has a completely different cause, market Capitalism, than that in Latin America, Colonialisation, and in my experience Buddhism and Confucianism are rather less prone to provoking their followers to violence than religions of the book.

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johna says on May 10, 2006, 10:52:

SingSling just to play devil's advocate, not to argue with you, because I might agree. I have heard this many times about Conf. and Buddhism being more peaceful, but the counterpoint is that countries that follow these models/religions/ philosophies have had some of the worst conflicts in modern history. China's Revolution, Pol Pot in Cambodia, the wars in Vietnam, Laos,the Koreas, Japanese Samurai culture and hypernationalism leading up to WWII and others. So how do you reconcile these supposedly peaceful cultures with all this violence? Again just trying to discuss with you not insult your beliefs.

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bufalo says on May 10, 2006, 22:09:

Getting back to the "dumb as a box of rocks"part. I had known a number of dealers when I lived in New York. I'd say that quote sums it up good. They spent money on the stupidest things, would think nothing of going to a restaurant and spending thousand of dollars on a meal to impress friends, and then they would cry on sunday because they would think of their poor moms back in colombia with almost nothing to eat. Idiots didn't send a dime. Everything owned was in someone else's name, it was a huge mess.
No, I wasn't involved. that was clear between us from the beginning.

One guy was found burned and in pieces in a ditch outside of Medellin, another was killed I forget how, but very similar. Several are locked up and were caught for stupid reasons. I mean if someone is going to do this stuff, I say do it for a year, save tons of money, then go back to colombia and start up some good businesses and then live legal. but that won't let you go on a shopping spree down fifth avenue, will it?

Here was a pair of real idiots I knew. Oops, three idiots. OK, just after 9/11, so border security is really tight. The main dealer has a....I forget the name of the SUV, but at the time it was the biggest one out there, with two fuel tanks. Anyway, main dealer lends his SUV (because it has a secret compartment) to two friends who are going to use it to bring 500,000 USD from Canada to NY. The SUV is in friend #1's name, who just went along for the ride. It was friend #2's job.
The two morons attempt to cross the border, again, just a few days after 9/11, both in their 20's, driving the biggest SUV there is, the salsa music can be heard from miles away. The border guys just pointed at them as soon as they showed up, I don't know how , but htey found the money (someone said the dogs can sniff it, I don't know).
Now, it is guy#2's job, but since he wasn't driving and he wasn't the owner, he was let go in a few months. Guy#1 who isn't spanky clean, but nobody major at all takes the fall - The truck was in his name as a favor for his friend, the major dealer. He falls for over a year
Mom thought "my son is so hardworking, he doesn't even have time to call me" how could I tell her the truth when I visited her?
Nothing happens to the major dealer, and no he didn't give a shit about his friends, complained of paying $100 to a lawyer for advice about it and then went to play with a remote controled buggy he just bought. These guys grew up together.

"If you don't like it - lump it, take it down the road and dump it." - Archie Bunker played by Carroll O'Connor

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Rubiazo says on May 11, 2006, 01:38:

That;'s the new wave The old wave of intelligent guys who ran things in the 70s and 80s were all taken down by a concerted and PROLONGED effort by LE here. Once those guys were gone there was nobody but culicagados to replace them.

Those old guys were also the guys who'se money somehow wound up behind every major merengue salsa and cumbia recording made from 1970-1996 or so. So remember that next time you put the radio on and one of your faves comes on!

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Rubiazo says on May 11, 2006, 02:44:

at SingSling Man, I just went to your site you yourself posted on here. According to that SAME SITE, the USA is #75 out of 115 nations. I'm still trying to figure out how you could seriously argue this point by posting a site that PROVES EXACTLY WHAT I JUST SAID, that Latin Americans have more unequal income distribution than the USA, and that Brazil is the most unequal of the bunch. Only two nations even ranked higher in that site! So NO the USA does NOT have the most unequal income distribution, not by a long shot, and YES, there does seem to be a very strong correlation between income distribution and violence. It's actually incredible how many of the safest nations are at the top and the most dangerous are at the bottom!

Furthermore, every single one of those Latin American countries at the bottom of that list used to be much safer places to be when they were poorer overall (but didn't have such glaring inequalities). I'm still scratching my head wondering how you could look at the data and completely miss it! I'm going to go to sleep assuming you are a troll!

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SingSling says on May 11, 2006, 05:57:

USA Centric I am not American, Northern or Southern. My point is about Asia not South America, if you visit Malaysia or Thailand you will find them generally fairly peaceful despite being higher in the Gini tables.

The USA is the most unequal nation in the G20 nations and has the highest level of violence but it isnt just inequality, it also has to do with the culture and the availabilty of guns. China is rising in terms of inequality but it isnt getting more violent the correlation is not that simple.

And finally your last point seems very strange to me, Argentina used to be the 5th richest country in the world, its now poorer and more violent, Colombia in the few years I have been visiting has got richer and less violent, has inequality decreased or is the relationship a little bit more complex than you are putting forward?

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lost says on May 11, 2006, 07:31:

poco man that test is hard...
have you got the answer sheet?
anything that isn't metric srews with my mind.

redway- whats this concept you mentioned "animal rights?"
you are joking right?
animal rights. jajaajaawjawahjwjahwjhajhajwhwhajhajhwajhwjahjahwajhwajwhajwhajwhajajajahwahwjahwajhwajwhajajwhwhawajhajaajajahwja.

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johna says on May 11, 2006, 07:34:

Big A Japan wasn't communist. They were an imperial buddhist nation, and still violent. Laos and Vietnam were still heavily influenced by buddhism.

To Rubiazo,

I agree that Malayasia and Thailand stick out as being more peaceful. But after having been to Thailand a couple of times, I don't think that they are totally "peaceful". Their favorite sport is super violent, kickboxing. They are fighting on the border with Burma against Mon people, who haven't been treated to well. I love thailand and think that although no place is perfect, they are pretty close

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Albatross says on May 11, 2006, 10:13:

Poco That test is just about the funniest thing I've seen at PBH, especially the last question...

“Democracy - a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." - H.L. Mencken

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Rubiazo says on May 11, 2006, 21:02:

Latin America and wealth Colombia during the 1960s and 1970s was a LOT poorer than it is today and a lot less violent. It's most violent period was the 1980s and early 1990s which also corellated directly with all the wealth coming in from the drug game. Likewise the 'miracle years' in Brazil spawned greater social inequality and greater violence.

Colombia getting richer? Not compared to the 1980s my friend.

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webmanco says on May 12, 2006, 05:56:

Playing with fire Gomezman
all of our foreign investment over there was supposed to bring the country around to a capitalistic society, and more importantly an increase in human rights and freedoms

I don´t believe much about the latter, (an increase in human rights and freedoms)and about the foreing investment it was to take adavantage of cheap labor, enter the China market and take jobs away from North America.

Everyone who plays with fire knows that sooner or later they could get burned, same thing goes to drug dealers, most of them know they will might get "rich", end up in jail or killed.


I am with redway regarding animal rights. That is something I admire about USA.

...A yo, déjenme queto y no me jodan má! ...

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Gomezman5 says on May 12, 2006, 13:06:

Well Webmanco.... In all honesty, I never meant to imply that our "setting up shop" in China was was for the purpose of creating some new bastion of democracy where freedom of thought and alike would be all but guaranteed. Quite obviously most people know that the main reason for doing so was to create a new stronghold for cheap labor to manufacturer products sold here in the US......and elsewhere for that matter.

What I am saying however is that to pasify the critics who objected to our investing there from the onset, stories of this nature were told to them so as to justify our investment there. Look, we have been exporting jobs to third world countries since I have been alive. Is this something new? Latin America, starting from the border at Ciudad Juarez, all the way deep into Central and South America, has been making products for us for decades. Don't leave the Domican Republic and other Asian countries out of the equation either.

My I also add that this theory is not so far fetched...is it? Just take a look at Eastern Europe. Romania, Poland, the Czech Republic, and Russia proper, .....they have all taken some steps toward creating a more open society where at least some seedlings of freedome of expression have been planted.

In the case of China, we had a(and still do) tremendous distrust of their politcal elite. They now are somewhat more of an ally of ours because their economy has become dependent on our well being. If we suffer economic reversals, their economy would be devistated. In other words, they are starting to depend our steady financial support...

Just a few points to consider.

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Rubiazo says on May 12, 2006, 13:27:

Wow G5 you got a really different way of looking at the world than I do, that's for sure.

For one thing, I wouldn't want to be so confident that the US economy will always be that relevant to the rest of the world. I personally think we are being set up for a huge hard fall, and it may ultimately affect some other countries that are real close to us, but the rest of the world will basically keep going. Just what are we providing the world that it needs so much right now? If the US economy collapses China is still making everything and can sell it wherever the hell they choose.

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Gomezman5 says on May 12, 2006, 13:45:

No true Rubiazo...Not true at all A lot of the people on this board have adopted the erroneous notion that the new "World Economy" has thereby caused the US to be a non sequitor when it comes to determining the health of economic conditions throughout the world. I disagree.

While other countries may have caused the US to be a less significant player, to excude her completely would be rediculous. If you recall, it used to be said, "When the US sneezes, the whole world catches a cold." Now, it may take a few extra sneezes with a touch of a headache, for the world economy to go into a state of disarray.

You obviously have not been shopping much lately. Inasmuch you cannot walk into many stores in the US, where at least have the goods sold, regardless of what kind of goods they are, are not made in China. Can you? If so, tell me where you have been shopping. Ok, we have a store here named Scandinavian Design, I imagine there is not much from China there. But be realistic. That said, you cannot honestly say, that a country that has the buying power that we have, cannot dramatically affect the economic well being of a country if that country goes into financial slump. And you may think that there are other markets availble to the Chinese if we don't come through. Do you think that? Well that goes back to my sneeze example again. If things go south in the US, history has proven that they will indeed goo south throughout the rest of the world. You cannot name me very many times in history where when the US was having economic woes, the rest of the world had suffered from the same affliction that had taken the US down.

Sorry buddy. We still are the US. If we have problems, so will the rest of the world. And if we are not buying from the Chinese in big numbers, there are not going to be many or any players out there that will be in any position to come close to making up for the losses that China will incur.

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caslug says on May 12, 2006, 14:53:

in relation to the world, esp china. The port of LA ALONE brings in 30 BILLION DOLLARS PER MONTH fr China, that's just products(not incl couple of container full of illegals) and ships out 3 BILLION/MONTH TO CHINA. Now add other ports in the US and you can see China is stuck to the hip with us. If US purhcase 10% LESS from china a year, that's AT LEAST $100 BILLION/year that China loses. They won't be able to make up that amount easily, BECAUSE they're ALREADY selling to other parts of the world at capacity. Also, US has pretty low tariff for chinese good, while other part of the world has higher. COL will tax 40% on import. Also, since US is the largest market in the world, transportation infrastracture is IN place to move goods into the US, cheaply and efficiently. While other parts of the world it may cost more to ship. Example, shipping fr China to US is very cheap while cheaping from China to COL is slightly more expensive AND takes longer.

I work in import/export between asia(china/vietnam) and US. So I see all different factors that effect business.

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Gomezman5 says on May 12, 2006, 15:36:

Caslug...you put it very well..but what amazes me What amazes me is how the run of poor thinking, agenda driven people on this site, will go to any length, even beyond the realm of common sensem, to try and make people believe that the US, from any perspective, especially an economic one, is no longer significant in affecting the world's economy. I can understand people in Colombia, who have never seen how a real super economy works if they have not visited here, thanking in a manner such as this.

Our Home Depots, Lowes, Circuit Citys, Best Buys, Walgreen's,Walmart's ...and the list goes on and on, create a form of buying power that most countries never even come close to approximating. Just name the product. When the US Slumps, so slumps the world. There are those on this site that wish it were not that way, but hey it is what it is.

And yes, while we have not achieved all of the political goals insofar as creating a reformed and more open China, we have most certainly made China a bit more dependent on us, and a whole lot less of a political rival (enemy) that more often than not, will invariably be forced to cooperate with us in our dealings with other countries, especially those countries that represent a terrorist threat to us. China has already shown us that it has been ready to step in and deal with countries like North Korea. While the threat coming from North Korea is still very real, to dismiss China and say that its intervention has not at least tempered the situation somewhat, would be misguided.

China needs us more than it needs any other country in the world. Like Caslug alluded to, it's economy would flatten significantly if we merely purchased %10 less than what we currently do.

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juanalejo says on May 12, 2006, 16:45:

One world I agree that the US is a very important player in the world context, and if the US goes down so does a large part of the world, but the same can be said about Europe and even China. We live in an interdependant world, and if today China goes down, the US will follow behind, if Europe goes down so will the US, and vice versa. No country in the world today can survive on its own and be successful. China does depend on a large part on US for buying their products, but China also innundates Europe, Japan and even Latin america with their products, but it is very cocky to think that just because they need the buying power of the US they kind of bow to the US. From a non US perspective, the rise of Europe as a unit and China as a world power has put some balance to the US, which although still very powerful, is far less omnipotent in its decisions than it used to be, thankfully.

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caslug says on May 12, 2006, 17:08:

china inroad into Latin america.. is more problematic for LA than USA. US manafacturing was moving to other countries anyway BEFORE china came along. NAFTA was SUPPOSE benefit MEXICO, because mexico was "suppose" get those manafacturing contracts due to proximity and low cost. What happen was, many of the manafacturing went to china instead! So Mexico got screwed, but that's another story..

Right now US is CHina's BIGGEST trading partner, now in future that may/will change, then China will become LESS dependant on the US(still will be a big percentage of their trade). When I visit Peru & COL, i was SHOCKED that many clothes in department in Peru/COL was manafacture in CHINA! Here in the US cheap women underwear is made in china, understandable because of low cost in china versus high cost in US. In Peru I saw cheap women underwear made in CHINA, Nike tennis shoes made in Vietnam! That tells me that even in Peru, a poor country with LOW cost of labor, high unemployment. It STILL cost LESS to buy from china EVEN AFTER paying shipping(across the ocean) and paying tariffs THAN it is to make it in Peru! So who loses out? Local manafacturing base.

In COL, is the same, cheap toys, clothes, etc., are from China. Even COL much vaunted fashion industry is taking a hit.

Different between what's going on in Latin America vs US, is in the US the US economy moved beyond manafacturing as a major source of job/economic growth. AND US economy can absorb the recently jobless manafacturing workers, they can find other jobs with unemployement being 5%. But in countries latin america, with higher unemployement, lost of manafacturing jobs to china hurts proportionally more. ADDED to the fact that high tariffs on import consumer goods, hurt the poor more than the rich. Because the RICH can pay 100k peso for a DVD player no problem, but 100k peso is 1/4 of monthly wage(minimum wage) for many COLs. In the US a DVD player may only cost $40-50k peso. Minimum wage in the US is about $800/month, a DVD player DOES NOT COST 1/4($200USD). So a poor person in the US spends 1/16th of their minimum wage on DVD player. Let's not even mention the cost of computer in COL in relation to wage...

So I think, LA should look warily on embracing China as a trading partner, dammn if you do, and damn if you dont. The poor are caught in the middle..

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caslug says on May 12, 2006, 17:11:

PS.. I wonder what the trade balance between COL & China is? Somehow i suspect COL has a sizable DEFICIT with CHINA...

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Rubiazo says on May 12, 2006, 19:44:

Caslug, run those numbers again and see how much of a minimum wage earner anywhere in the US (I don't care where) spends on RENT and FOOD.

The other thing is: Neither the US or China can keep up the current situation. There is no question that the moment either one of them coughs, the whole world will feel it. I hope it doesn't create a worldwide depression by domino effect but that may be the case.

The US is living off of borrowed money. The truth is that our post-manufacturing economy is ONE BIG BUBBLE and the longer we keep going down this road the worse its gonna be when it does finally correct itself. Right now the only reason our economy is still hanging on is because real estate is booming. The other reason is that we are borrowing money like never before, and often it's money we can never repay.

On the other hand China can't continue the way they are going either. Even if I'm dead wrong about civil unrest and violence being an issue that could cripple China, you still have other things to worry about, like air pollution. China currently has the world's worst environmental record out of any nation, and it's not going to be long before people are literally choking on their own filth over there!! How much worse is the air going to have to get around those big manufacturing sectors before people just start dropping like flies? For that matter what happens when the US starts missing payments on money it has borrowed from Chinese and other foreign central banks?

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redway says on May 12, 2006, 20:35:

Animal Rights in the U.S...NO DISNEYLAND. I spend time every day signing petitions for both animal and human rights. I read stories everyday about horrific abuse of animals in the U.S.. The difference for me is that most people here would agree that animal abuse is wrong. Most people here don't agree with skinning animals alive, eating dog or cat soup, watching animals starve and freeze in an "animal market"-that exists for the human consumption of dogs, cats and other species. In China, it is an institutionalized way of life, as it is in Korea. Human rights are very closely entwined with animal rights. I don't believe a 27 and 32 year old "kid"-in my estimate- should be put to death for doing something completely stupid. They should be sent back to Colombia. That probably won't happen...

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redway says on May 12, 2006, 20:49:

AND I DON'T LIKE THE NSA PHONE TAPPINGS , EITHER. Right here in the U S of A...

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utopiacowboy says on May 12, 2006, 21:38:

Anyone who is writing the US off as economically irrelevant needs to come out with me and pick my wife up from work at the Toyota plant. It's an amazing sight and at this point represents slightly less than 1 billion dollars that they have invested here. Yes, you read that right. Reading the posts here suggests that Toyota's executives are a bunch of morons but I think not.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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miamimike says on May 12, 2006, 21:41:

A Major reason China Runs such a deficit with Col and the USA is its currency disparity. The Chinese Yuan is more or less frozen(and has been for years) at 8.03instead of a floating currency such as the CP or USD. One year ago it was 8.23(more or less)so the Chinese enjoy a Great Advantage against Col/USA. Their stuff floods the market and sells on the cheap while the items Col& USA unload in China sells for a small fortune.Hard to compete with the table slanted in China's favor on the currency. Bush should have strongarmed China by letting 'em know they won't have free access to our Markets like they now do unless they truly float their Money as Col and the US does. We all regretfully know what happened on that Recent Visit(when Hu came to the US a few weeks ago)LOL. The USA is in my opinion, living on Borrowed money as Rubiazo commented. Since the USA was taken off the Bretton Woods Accord(Gold Standard)by then Prez Nixon in 1971 I felt the downward slide of the USD commenced at that point, as far as a unstable USD. Under the Gold Standard, every USD was guarenteed in Gold(held in the regional federal deposit banks) The Old Saying "As Good as Gold" really meant something when people referred to our money. Today that is simply not true; now we are at the mercy of the Chinese and Japonese who hold 80% of our Paper debt. What a lousy position to be in and Personal Consumer Debt in the US keeps on rising every day.. and gold Bullion is soaring at 720 USD per Troy Ounce... What does that say..

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Rubiazo says on May 12, 2006, 23:52:

I agree with that Once you float a currency it ultimately is only going to go one way, and we all know which way that will be.

UC, do I think Toyota is gonna get burned on that bigass fucking plant YOU BET YOUR ASS I DO!

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miamimike says on May 13, 2006, 10:24:

Big A ..... And your Point is...

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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