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A FARC Sleeper in Canada?-Whaddaya Think?

This story has got some press here in Canada especially among certain small l liberal groups.

For those who know the Colombian political scene-do you think it's possible this woman is a 'sleeper'-a FARC agent sent to Canada to lay low for a time possibly years?

Any relevant info/comment/opinion much appreciated

TIA
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http://www.thestar.com/News/article/273351

A 'serious' concern with fairness

In 1996, a 41-year-old Colombian trade unionist applied at the Canadian embassy in Mexico City to immigrate to Canada. Amparo Torres was well-known in the region. She was a founding member of the Union Patriotica, a coalition of leftist political parties created a few years earlier at the behest of Colombia's then president in order to bring an end to decades of guerrilla warfare. She had also been kidnapped by one of the country's right-wing death squads.

Unlike most of the "disappeared" who suffered that fate, she survived and fled to Mexico.

Torres was up front with the Canadian embassy. She didn't hide her politics (she's a Communist) or her family affiliations. Her brother Jorge is a leader of the Colombian Revolutionary Armed Forces (FARC), Colombia's largest, oldest and deadliest guerrilla faction. Her ex-spouse, Luis Urbano, had by 1996 joined FARC and become its international spokesman.

But she herself, she told Canadian officials, did not belong to FARC.

As a high-profile political refugee, she was almost certainly vetted by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (although CSIS won't confirm that). The upshot was that Canada welcomed her as a permanent resident.

She settled in Toronto and got a job in a travel agency. Two sons, now both Canadian citizens, attended university. She married. She continued to be active politically and give speeches.

After one speech, CSIS agents interviewed her about her views. They seemed satisfied.

Then came 9/11 and the war on terror. To a new Colombian government determined to crush its guerrilla opponents, the U.S.-led crusade was a godsend. Normally sensible countries were now in a tizzy over terrorism.

In 2003, Canada officially listed FARC as a terrorist body. A few months later, Torres found CSIS was investigating her again.

This time, she says, agents interviewed her friends and associates. She says they told her boss that if she continued to work there, the company might be proscribed as a terrorist front. Torres was fired.

She hired a lawyer; CSIS replied by upping the ante.

In May 2005, she was informed that a member of the immigration and refugee board, a quasi-judicial tribunal, had begun hearing evidence in secret to determine if she should be deported to Colombia. The hearing is still going on

To Torres, all of this is a nightmare. Neither she nor her lawyer, Raoul Boulakia, are allowed to know the substance of the allegations against her. All they know, on the basis of an edited summary, is that CSIS claims to have "reasonable grounds" to believe that she belongs to a terrorist organization.

Torres has been able to successfully counter some of what the government has presented during open sessions of the hearing. But she can't dispute the meat of the CSIS argument because she simply doesn't know what it is.

So far, the courts have refused to derail the hearing, although on Monday, federal court judge Anne Mactavish ruled that there is potentially a "serious" concern about its fairness.

"This process forces me to constantly remember all the abuses and tragedies I try not to dwell on," writes Torres in her court affidavit. "I live with fear of being deported, tortured and killed.

"It is a constant reminder of my plight in Colombia as it repeats themes of my disappearance in Colombia: . . . being a victim of slander or evidence I am not allowed access to . . . having a life I am trying to establish wrecked; being powerless compared to state actors who act with complete impunity."

By Sam Salmon on Nov 4, 2007, 17:58 in Politics & the war.

Man Tequila says on Nov 4, 2007, 18:15:

I would say it is possible. Who knows?

Aunque no me creas/ si me lo propongo/ lograre olvidarte/ porque a fin de cuentas/ no soy tan cobarde./ Y termino todo una de estas tardes/ no sera dificil buscar algún sitio donde refugiarme/ donde nunca mas vuelvas a encontrarme. (Polo Montañez)

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 4, 2007, 19:16:

"FARC sleeper in Canada"? With all due respect, Sam, that's ridiculous. First, because FARC has never used the "sleeper" technique to infiltrate anywhere. Second, because there have been UP refugees around the world for years, particularly in Scandinavian countries, and none of them, as far as I know, have been involved in terrorist activities. Another thing is that some of them are quite sympathetic of FARC and are vocal about it. Let me emphasize: SOME. Including the people who run Anncol. I don't know if that's a crime in Canada; I know it's not one in Sweden or in any country where freedom of speech is the norm.

What I find disturbing is the despicable double victimization involved in this case. First she is sent out in exile as part of the most grotesque political genocide in recent history (maybe other countries have had similar experiences? I haven't heard one recently). And then she has to face a judicial system more befitting Iran or Somalia than a first world country. If she has broken the law, make a formal accusation and take her to public trial. This whole BS of "national security" secret trials and shit like that is disgusting.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 19:22:

Is one to read in: 'She was kidnapped by the paramilitaries'?

Oliver Stone? Where are you?? THERE'S A THRILLA awaitin to be made !

Where do we go from here?

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 19:34:

Sounds a bit like....patty hearst,.. in a way.

Where do we go from here?

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Sam Salmon says on Nov 4, 2007, 20:06:

What many Canadians would wonder is how her 2 close male (ex)relatives are both FARC but she isn't-why then would she be kidnapped?

Of course we who have been exposed to the byzantine world of Colombian politics know that her 'kidnapping' and 'escape' might have been no such thing.

FARC is a huge narcotic trafficking organisation and Canada has a serious drug problem in addition to being next door to the largest drug market on earth no doubt that's passed through law enforcement authority's minds at some point.

The sleeper angle is just a thought no need to obsess about it.

' a la orden!'

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 20:40:

as said....sounds like a good movie in the making.... to follow up the one on Escobar

Where do we go from here?

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christobeldawg says on Nov 4, 2007, 20:45:

saw the History Channel's take on the killing of Escobar today. anybody else see that? very compelling. I was left thinking, "where is the followup, where is Colombia on all of this today, 14 years after his death?"

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 20:50:

I wouldn't claim to be any sort of expert... only superficial knowledge here... but my take, as an oursider, trying to be informed, is that... THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO SORT IT ALL OUT.... in many, many ways... and it won't happen anytime soon.

Where do we go from here?

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christobeldawg says on Nov 4, 2007, 21:04:

did the governments maybe make some sorta deal? as in, "quit threatening the cities and the central infrastructure, and we will leave you alone to operate your business"?? I mean, otherwise, why would things be so much less violent now than back then, since the coke trade is still alive and well?

admittedly, arriving can feel great too

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 4, 2007, 21:39:

"What many Canadians would wonder is how her 2 close male (ex)relatives are both FARC but she isn't"

My parents were also wondering for a while why my siblings are engineers and business people and I'm not. Is "wondering" about something grounds for prosecution using secret trials?

"FARC is a huge narcotic trafficking organisation"

Keep things in perspective. We know that FARC is involved in the protection of coca fields and the protection of some routes within Colombia. There was only one case in which they used their Mexican connections for some sort of deal, which I don't recall well. And that was years ago. That's not a "huge narcotic trafficking organisation," not comparable to the kind of businesses that the Cartels still run.

"The sleeper angle is just a thought no need to obsess about it."

I'm not obsessing about it, just pointing out that it is a highly improbable angle.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 21:43:

""""This whole BS of "national security"......... and shit like that is disgusting.""""

To whom?
To those who live, work, and prosper here in the confines of Los EEUU? Hoping to get back to Colombia after having exploited the opportunities [and security] in the USA??

Where do we go from here?

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john_stark says on Nov 4, 2007, 21:51:

Today's US citizens are no better than the citizens of Nazi Germany. In their paranoia and general uselessness, they have traded their freedom for "security". As Ben Franklin said, "a people who would trade their freedom for security deserves neither". Of course, today's US citizens are not worthy of their patriot forbears. Most of them are scum who deserve to be herded into concentration camps and gassed. I have enough weaponry to start an African civil war and I don't need no stinking government giving me "security". We need a second American Revolution to pick up where the first one left off.

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Sam Salmon says on Nov 4, 2007, 21:58:

There are some very angry paranoid people on this thread!

The idea that FARC is a minor league player in the Colombian drug trade is nonsense.

' a la orden!'

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 4, 2007, 21:59:

"To whom?"

To anyone with the sense of justice of a 6 year-old or older.

BTW, I didn't say that national security was BS. Don't misquote me. I said that "national security" secret trials were BS.

If any government has a problem with me, fine, just let me know what I am accused of. That's a very minimal standard of justice.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 4, 2007, 22:02:

Hmmmm.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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goin_south says on Nov 4, 2007, 22:10:

I think it may have been easy for BIG BEN and the founding fathers to be so Bold with their Words... in such a LARGE, OPEN WORLD... 200 years ago... and some of them may be found holding their eye-glasses and mumbling.... given todays sort of problems.

Where do we go from here?

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john_stark says on Nov 4, 2007, 22:14:

Bin Laden and his crew want to come on over and mess with me and my neighbors? I say bring it, pendejo.

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Robert Jorge says on Nov 4, 2007, 22:21:

So what do you have stashed away JS? I am talking hardware.

JS, one of your quotes is ironic - in that Ben Franklin was a monger in France in his day. And France isn't exactly the epitome of freedom nor security at the present moment.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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manINred says on Nov 5, 2007, 10:20:

What the hell could she do in Canada as a "FARC agent", and what basis do CSIS have to make such claims other than a familial link, (which she can hardly help)? And why would FARC have a sleeper cell here? What a ludicrous suggestion from the low-quality Toronto Star.

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juancegomez says on Nov 5, 2007, 10:59:

Not knowing enough about the case, much less about her actual views or any continuing links to FARC (if applicable), I do believe that she needs access to far more information and deserves the guarantees of due process in order to properly defend herself, if nothing else.

Also, regardless of *whatever* truth is behind all this is, I don't want to see her dead either. Not even in the unlikely but not impossible event she really was a FARC or pro-FARC sleeper. But I do believe that authorities, Canadian or otherwise, have a right to (re-)investigate her if there are real grounds for doing so (something which I am in no position to determine).

Sr Tertius: This is possibly going to sound horribly politically incorrect...but it's logically going to be easy enough for some nations to grant unlimited and unrestricted freedom of speech when it's not *their* country which is in the middle of a war, uprising, conflict or what have you. When those nations *are* directly or mostly affected by any such conflict and its consequences, the issue tends to become less clear-cut.

That doesn't mean that such situations should *always* allow arbitrary restrictions to freedom or the absence of due process, much less massacres or genocides, but this does raise a few questions with no simple answers, IMHO.

Let's move beyond the UP for a moment. Look at Spain, where the Batasuna party was declared illegal and banned by court ruling in 2003, apparently for individual ties to ETA and for allegedly refusing to explicitly condemn its violence. It's also on the European Union's list of terrorist organizations, included as part of ETA.

See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batasuna
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batasuna

This is all in a country which apparently has not seen even half of the violence and intolerance we have seen in Colombia, at least not since Spain's own Civil War (which, in some ways, perhaps was worse than our current conflict while it lasted, but I digress...).

On the other hand, Batasuna is apparently still legal in France, and even in Spain former Batasuna members have continued to act using other labels or inside other parties (such as Aralar). It's also quite obvious that each member of the party probably has different positions about ETA and Spanish politics in general, they're not clones of each other. Some will be more pro-ETA, others less so or not at all. There haven't been any mass murders of Batasuna members either, as far as I can tell.

Which takes us back to the UP and this specific case....the tragedy of the UP's destruction is one thing, a horrible thing, but what each individual UP member does or does not do on an individual level is something else entirely.

I do not wish to see this person suffer from a new kind of victimization, and she clearly deserves due process, but her former status as a member of the UP should not grant her immunity from prying eyes, if there are any valid reasons for such examination.

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vladimiro says on Nov 7, 2007, 17:48:

"""""This whole BS of "national security"......... and shit like that is disgusting.""""

To whom?
To those who live, work, and prosper here in the confines of Los EEUU? Hoping to get back to Colombia after having exploited the opportunities [and security] in the USA??"

Maybe something more like this poor guy in Arizona:

"In a jail cell at an immigration detention center in Arizona sits a man who is not charged with a crime, not suspected of a crime, not considered a danger to society. But he has been in custody for five years."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/14/AR2006...

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Man Tequila says on Nov 7, 2007, 18:17:

There simply is not enough information here. The women deserves due process, and CSIS is not exactly an open book. Nevertheless, one does not know what CSIS knows, so who can say? The fact it was in the Toronto Star does not mean CSIS does not have reasonable grounds. I hope she is not yet another innocent victim. If she was involved with FARC, saying Canada has a sleeper cell might still be pretty melodramatic.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Nov 7, 2007, 18:20:

She's quite the celebrity, though. Google her name. She's a poster child for every advocacy and Latino group in Canada, including the Marxist-Leninist society.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Nov 7, 2007, 18:44:

Vladimiro - He's not a "poor guy in Arizona" he's a criminal and a really stupid one to boot. I can't think of a less sympathetic character. Assuming the newspaper accounts are correct:

1. He's Iranian and he tried to sneak into the country illegally right after September 11th using a fake Italian passport. Brilliant plan.

2. He's caught, pleads guilty, serves time. After the initial sentence his legal limbo begins.

3. He has refused legal counsel and efforts to publicize his case, but he has availed himself of the prison library and filed seven lawsuits against the US govt totaling $10 million.

4. Homeland security has apparently cleared him or offered to send him back to Iran but he won't go.

5. All in all, if he's the one remaining guy out of 1200 that were initially locked up in the hazy days post-September 11th, that's not too shabby of a batting average. Who knows, maybe he's trying to win the lottery with his lawsuits and if those don't pan out, they'll make a movie about him, like they did about the Iranian who lived in Charles de Gualle airport for a decade.

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Sr Tertius says on Nov 7, 2007, 20:54:

Juance,

I wonder to what extent not condemning ETA made Batasuna become illegal. I don't understand that thing with certain countries on some issues. Like it being illegal to deny the Holocaust in Germany, or insulting the majesty of the president in some places. It's all unjustifiable horseshit in my book. In the 21st Century you would expect that there wouldn't be such things as crimes of opinion. I think it is the natural right of every individual to hold stupid beliefs... otherwise, we wouldn't have jewels like PBH! I know it is not illegal in Colombia to show sympathy towards FARC or towards anyone (another thing is to provide material support). I'm sure a civilized country like Canada holds that minimum standard.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Colombiche says on Nov 8, 2007, 06:37:

I personally know a lady from Medellin who is a member of the ELN. I doubt she is a sleeper, because she is very active in promoting "human rights" events and going around knocking doors looking for donations and funds. She has been going to York University doing political studies for like the past 10 years.... all on the canuck government's dime.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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manINred says on Nov 8, 2007, 07:49:

Isn't promoting human rights contradictory to being in ELN?

That's what I was playing at, the Toronto Star occasionally does raise valid points, however the title of this thread (FARC sleeper cell in Canada) is a bit farcicle, pun intended.

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manINred says on Nov 8, 2007, 07:50:

She just studies at york, for 10 years? that's a long time!!!

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Colombiche says on Nov 8, 2007, 08:17:

manInRed, if you ever get a flyer telling you about a fundraising bash, human rights in colombia blah blah blah, don't take what you read on the pamphlet at face value. I personally attended a couple of these events and they were packed with ex elenos and ex salvadoran guerrillas. Some of my friends up here are che guevara tshirt wearing types. I am more than sure my 20 bucks and the money I spent on beer went to causes I don't exactly support.

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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Colombiche says on Nov 8, 2007, 08:23:

Yeah, she just studies and studies and studies. I believe she got into Canada claiming to be a "fugee" (ironically enough, she probably REALLY was fleeing for her life).

No me den trago extranjero, que es caro y no sabe a bueno.... (Rafael Godoy)

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