A Colombian working for Id System representing a USA company Black water USA that hires Colombian ex-militares for the war in Irak.
Many ex-militares were complaining about not being paid as promised, and that is where the investigation will start at.
More on Blackwater
"De hecho Blackwater es ahora uno de los actores más poderosos de todos los que participan en esta guerra. Pero al ser una milicia privada, la administración Bush queda politicamente a resguardo de sus actos… y de sus bajas. Según Scahill en Irak han muerto unos 780 contratistas militares privados, pero no están incluidos en las listas oficiales de muertos americanos. Así que ni reciben asistencia médica a cargo del Pentágono… ni tampoco nadie controla sus excesos.
I recall the Colombian Soldiers of Fortune were beat out of a Lot of Money after arriving in Iraq. Thier Pre-arranged Iraq starting Salaries (negotiated in Col) were pegged at approx $5-$7K monthly when Blackwater recruited them in Bogota and the reality was going to be less then $2500 monthly after they arrived. Why should these Colombian Soldiers to be payed 50-70% less then their American Counterparts?? Isn't the risk of Death the same?? I also recall when they Colombian Soldiers wanted to return home, after not accepting this Bad Deal, they were told "you are on your own and must pay your own ticket home" Lots of people in Col real real angry at Blackwater,,,No surprise at his death,,,
No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska
Ya, but what a shame... ... that they whacked the Colombian front man. Not that he was innocent, but presuming the story presented is accurate, it's the douche bag execs who think its cool to lie to, cheat, and steal from people risking their lives that deserve to come to a violent end.
Wastelandlive--this story was well publicized on PBH several months back by El Tiempo,,,Don't know if the threads got deleted but this does not surprise me one iota,,,
No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska
There was a very extensive report on this issue. I am not sure if its available online, it was on a Semana issue from last year. I'll try and see if I can find it, its extremely interesting.
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill
G...they are referring to the pay for the hired mercenaries working for the private companies like BlackWater....normally ex-military and ex-law enforcement who go work over there for big $$ and a set period of time....
Just my opinion...
Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!
RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.
Then again... There's still a small chance his death didn't have anything to do with his job and his role in the shady contractor/mercenary business per se...but we won't know for sure (if at all).
Griffbos-you are way off on those Salaries, some Americans work -ing for Blackwater and other security companies are making $10,000 monthly.
"According to reports last week in the Colombian news magazine Semana and the Financial Times of London, the 35 Colombians - mostly seasoned counter insurgency troops - alleged in a letter to Blackwater that recruiters had promised them salaries of $4,000 a month.
They said it was only when they were given their contracts barely hours before leaving Bogota that they learned they would be paid $34 a day, or about $1,000 a month.
"We were tricked by the company," one former Colombian army captain was quoted as saying in the Financial Times.
American contractors can earn $10,000 a month or more working for Blackwater and its competitors in Iraq."
Who would be that crazy to risk their Life in Iraq for $34 daily???? I doubt you could ply any Colombian with enough Aguardiente to accept that deal! LOL
My nephew spent a year in Iraq for Blackwater....he got over $120K for the year, two paid vacations with RT flights included, and a $20K reup bonus.....he made it out, his 3 buddies (all ex-Marines) did not....my sister now has a full head of grey hair....
..Just my opinion...
Miguel_Clavo =)..aka, DragonSlayer..2-0..Colombia es pasión!
RVW orderded me to remove my tagline congratulating the PBH Mods New Golden Boys. Lame.
Thats what I thought Tinto, and it sends shivers through my spine. They are not real soldiers, they are not subjected to courts martial if they screw up...sounds like a ticking bomb to me. Are they plain paramilitaries?
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill
The Blackwater Brigade of Soldiers of Fortune appears to be a thinly disguised replacemement for our woefully understaffed and overworked military with back to back deployments. Why not take this Big Money Bush is using to pay Blackwater and instead use it to raise salaries of US military and also to attract new enlistees? Just a few days ago it was a HUGE battle to get an extra 1/2 percent out of Bush for the Soldier's annual raise(3% vs 3.5%)Any idea what these gross salary inequities do the Moral of our Soldiers who see the guy next him /her earning maybe 3-5 times the salary yet they are not subject to the Code of UCMJ when they screw up? Not to mention payed vacations home? Way out of Balance on Blackwater,,,
No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska
Huge ??? Like lots of clueless folks playing politics ??? Just a few days ago it was a HUGE battle to get an extra 1/2 percent out of Bush for the Soldier's annual raise(3% vs 3.5%)Any idea what these gross salary inequities do the Moral of our Soldiers who see the guy next him /her earning maybe 3-5 times the salary
Bush didn't knock off any part of the pay raise off.
The US military normally gets 1/2 a percentage point above the " cost of living " increase.
This is to lower the " Pay Gap " between the military and civilians that occurred in the 1990's. This year, that means a 3.0% pay raise, which is what Bush proposed. The House decided to offer a 3.5% pay raise.. Bush said it wasn't needed. but Bush didn't kill it and he hasn't threatened to veto an additional raise.
The HUGE battle was simply political pandering to an ignorant constituency by a congress looking to inflame.
Who was it that wanted to reinstitute the draft early this year ??? Wasn’t Bush but it did give people something to write about.
I know about pay inequities between regular Engineering employees of corporations and contractors doing THE EXACT SAME WORK for the EXACT same corporations. The sums are enormous and these enormous salaries are paid by COMPANIES and companies don’t pay huge differentials because they like it.
I’d say a project engineer makes around 150K per year In the states. The same function in Nigeria, Maylasia, etc. might pay $250,000 +++ per year, time off, bonus, large tax cuts, free housing etc.
Nice to call this an inequity but in fact it is what it takes to get qualified personnel who want to leave their home and family. The rate would be lower but most companies want someone who can do something besides eat beans and fart,, even then it might be hard to find someone reliable.
The pay gap between MILITARY and Civilian workers has been narrowing ever since BUSH took office. Get that, NARROWING and that DIDN”T happen under Clinton !!!
PAY ATTENTION MIKE !!!!
It is clear you don’t know much about or have anything useful to say about Colombia so you increasingly direct your posts to something you think you understand.
Your lack of knowledge when it comes to anything to do with numbers, statistics or anything math related is very poor to say the least.
What I like to know is if you believe your own posts or if you think others are that stupid?
Colombian Chickens are crowing about the new President of the U.S. who will assure that From each according to their ability to each according to their need.
There money is getting bigger. I have been in the middle east for 3 years now Afghanistan and Iraq (MEDELLINFOCKER DONT SAY SHIT) and the pay for the soldiers talking with them has increased. I think it is sad that there is such a big gap, but it has been closing.......The contractors like my self are being paid a great amount of money, but what we can paid personally is just 75% of what the governments is paying the company who contracts us, there are people who would die for there country and then there are people who would die for money, then you have people who would die for both.....Cheers!
There you go again Poco, personal attacks when a Discussion does not go your way,,,
PAT ATTENTION POCO!!LOL
POCO to Mike "It is clear you don’t know much about or have anything useful to say about Colombia so you increasingly direct your posts to something you think you understand.
Your lack of knowledge when it comes to anything to do with numbers, statistics or anything math related is very poor to say the least.
What I like to know is if you believe your own posts or if you think others are that stupid?""
====================================================================
Please, Links to any of those posts you claim I arithmetically mislead anyone here or offered advice that was 1) either a lie or 2)that offered nothing of Value? Otherwise then Cell Phone Photos of Cell Phone holders, what did you offer of Value related to Colombia? Poco,,,Bush attempted to lowball the Troops by offering a 3% RAISE instead of 3.5%,,,You may not agree with the facts but that is the truth,,,Do you dispute by paying a private contractor Soldier of Fortune 3-5 times what a soldier earns it is not a moral buster,,, You may call this raise political pandering and others refer to it as another matter and that is your opinion. Like AssHoles, we all have one,,,LOL You don't care for a Post, scroll on by ,,I do that to 99.9999% of post I read on this site as well as on others and keep my stress level down at the same time,,,
BTW, being ex military(active duty) and proud of Service to one's country I'm in favor a Draft and Mr Congressman Rangel was not the one who pointed my personal opinion in that Direction,,,
BTW, I never commneted on inequities concerning Private Engineers VS Government engineers I fail to see how this is pertinent; the subject was between Soldiers of Fortune and Regular Military forces one of whom is subject to the UCMJ Code and the other is not,,,
Have you ever personally served in the Military and observed the Guy next to you doing essentially the same job but earning 3-5 times more for the same responsability? Maybe you cannot grasp the Ill feeling this arouses but many others can and as soon as their Army time is up they bail and head to the private sector and that Military branch has lostTons of money they invested in the Soldier, Marine, Sailor or Airman! Why not up the pay(way up)of the serviceman/woman and retain him/her after already investing Tons of US taxpayers $$,,,seems like a winner of Idea to me,,,
No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska
The other country nationals always get paid less in an exact dollar amount ie 2500 usd a month or whatever it is for colombians, while people from the USA etc earn between 10,000 to 20,000 k. A few points:
1) they do not do the same job. Companies hire the ''soldiers'' from Peru, Colombia, India etc to do the basic perimeter security jobs. The pers from the usa etc are generally close protection experts or managers of the said colombians etc. The job is not the same at all.
Point 2). Most security people, while in Iraq, work on average 12 to 14 hr days, every day of the month, living 4 to a rm, with the added danger of being and working in Iraq. limited social activities etc. Now yes, they DO choose to work there however, divide your 10,000 dollars by the 360 hrs (12 hrs x 30) and it equals 27.77 usd an hr. Woopeee
Point 3) given that the contractors are usually paid while they work only, then over a year it is even less of an hrly rate. (rotations span from 9 weeks on to 3 off or 6 on 6 off or 8 on 4 off.
Point 3) When you convert the flat rate of the USD to the rate of the country where the person lives, they may well in fact be much better off in terms of what their USD can buy in their own country. For eg we had a Pakistani working with us for 4500 USD a month. i dont care what you say - when he converts that into local currency, with the cost of living, it is an absolute fortune for that guy and he effectively earns a lot more than the guy from eg the USA.
4) The contractors are generally employed in a passive role, not fighting the insurgents. They guard facilities or people.
and finally, if u really want to make money in Iraq you are not going to go and work in security. u r going to be one for the people they are paid to protect examples - Lawyers 1200 GBP a day (+ expenses not to exceed 60,000 GBP per year), reconstruction expert 800 GBP per day, need i go on.
Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!
Bickerss The Inequity of the matter was that originally the Colombians were contracted out to make $4500 monthly. I saw another article where it was $6000 but since the link says $4500 that is the number for the arguement here,,To have the game plan changed that late in the game is disheartening, defeating, I mean come on,being lowballed to $34 a DAY is an Insult~What kind of opinion do you these Colombian Soldiers have of Uncle Sam after some trick like this? Whatever they do, these Colombian Soldiers, doing Perimeter, they are as much at risk of getting picked off as anyone else? Pulling perimeter around the Green Zone(with all the recent bombings problems ect) seems to be worth more then $34 per day,,,Too Bad they didn't a Visa to the USA; they could have earned more then that for an 8 hr shift flipping Bugers! LOL
BTW, add the fringe benefits these private contractors(employees)make such vacation, stock options,SS deductions, health insurance ect and this can up the total pay by 25%! I doubt these Private Contractors could meet the IRS definition of a true private contractor just by what they are doing; they cannot write their own work hours, uniforms are supplied, they get payed vacation and payed flights home,,, In contrast, a private contractor in the true sense of the word pays for all of his/her expenses, buys his/her own uniforms, his/her own tools, implements/accouterments needed for the Job, dictates his/her own work hours, pays into SS at the 15% annual salary rate. These Blackwell employees(key)do none of that,,,Doubt this, check with the IRS or a CPA what conditions(extensive) need to be met to be classified as a private contractor to take full advantage of the deductions allowed ,,,
No hay Peor Ciego que el que no quiere Ver o Sordo que el que no quiera Oir--Sarah Palin, Wasilla Alaska
Bickerss, I belive these Contractors are much more then Passive players in Iraq. In the below link, up until late Feb 207, 800 of these Private contractors have been killed. How many wounded??? Your Guess,,,
"Employees of defense contractors such as Halliburton, Blackwater and Wackenhut cook meals, do laundry, repair infrastruture, translate documents, analyze intelligence, guard prisoners, protect military convoys, deliver water in the heavily fortified Green Zone and stand sentry at buildings — often highly dangerous duties almost identical to those performed by many U.S. troops.
The U.S. has outsourced so many war and reconstruction duties that there are almost as many contractors (120,000) as U.S. troops (135,000) in the war zone.
The insurgents in Iraq make little if any distinction between the contractors and U.S. troops."
Interesting Article on the Colombian Soldiers of Fortune in Iraq and on their treatment in Iraq after standing up for their Rights,,,
"When we linked up with the Romanians they asked us how much we were being paid, and we told them $1,000.” They responded with mockery. “No sane person in the world comes to Baghdad for only $1,000,” they said.
The Romanians told them that for the same work they were being paid $4,000. That fact gave way to uneasiness among the other contractors on the base. The mood turned hostile against the Colombians because if each soldier establishes his own conditions for fighting in a foreign country, there is always a benefit because in the end they are risking their lives. No one spoke to the Colombians and when they did, ****it was to offend them and treat them like cheap labor****.
On June 9th, before they had spent even a week in Baghdad, the 35 drafted and signed a letter addressed to the ID Systems and Blackwater representatives. In the letter, they said that if they didn’t pay the $2,700 that were promised, they wanted an immediate return to Colombia for the entire group.
The letter in which the Colombians demanded their rights was interpreted as rebellion, and the consequences were unexpected. “When we arrived at the base, they took away all our return flight tickets. After the letter they gathered us together and said that if we wanted to return, we should do it through our own means. Ironically, in a show of antipatriotism, one of the people who was most against us was a former captain of the Colombian Army, (Edgar Ernesto) Méndez, who is the link here in Iraq of the contractor in Colombia,” said retired Captain (Estaban) Osorio from Baghdad.
“To force us to comply with the contract, they began to pressure us. They threatened to kick us out of the base facilities to the streets of Baghdad, where you are exposed to being killed or, in the best of cases, kidnapped,” said Osorio.
…What’s more, when they were hired in Bogotá, the retired military men were told they would have eight-hour shifts. After the protest, the shifts became twelve-hour shifts. When the group complained, the response was that they would lose their potable water or that they wouldn’t receive the same food as the others on the base. At the time of recruitment in Bogotá, they were told that they would have medical insurance, dentists, and access to recreation zones within the base and life insurance for $1.5 million dollars. Just like the salary they were offered, nothing turned out to be true. Then came the health deterioration. “Several have gotten sick or have had accidents and it has not been possible for them to receive medical attention. When we asked for an explanation, the only thing we are told is that our contract does not cover that kind of services,” says Forero.
The contractors insist on the influence that the company has on the Army and the government, and that the company could close the doors for them to find jobs back in Colombia. And the threats go even further. “We are afraid for the consequences, not only that we risk being left without a job when we return to Colombia, but that they have also told us to remember that they have all the information about our families and children and that, simply put, is a threat,” said Forero.
Although the Ministry of Defense, the Army and the United States Embassy in Colombia are aware of the recruitment of retired soldiers, it has been a matter dealt with a low profile in which nobody accepts any responsibility."
If any of you has the time and interest to learn more about the subject. There is a film I bumped into yesterday called Iraq For Sale. It shows how passive these people are, and how these corporations are spending the tax payers' money. Here is the link:
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-6621486727392146155
Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill
Miamimike, I have seen the video listed by cereal killer and your link.
I spose I will first define my 'passive'; by that I meant that most are not actively seeking out ''enemy'' or acting in a traditional military role ie offensive.
Most of them (the security people) are passive, in that they are not conducting a traditional military role of trying to find and kill enemy etc. They are hired in protective or defensive roles, however yes, of cse, if attacked they will return fire. Additionally, for a lot of the ''body guarding'' type work the last thing they want is to be invloved in anything and the procedures are to get the hell out of there as soon as possible.
I agree with your comment that if they were offered 4500 usd and then the contract was slipped, then yes that sucks and it is very irresponsible (and morally wrong) of the company. I certainly wouldnt go on a contract there where the rules were changed just before I left.
As to pay; (and this is only a simple observation, not a concurrence with pay rates etc) on 2500 usd a month for a third world country staff member, they are actually paid very well (in relation to others I have seen ie Indian cleaners on 130 USD a month to 300 usd a month).
For the fringe benefits, i dont know exactly with blackwater however to be given stock options you are generally quite senior, not the average Joe; Health insurance is provided however has to be for the environment, and you are usually covered for your time in country only (and to and from place of hire); equipment is provided in some cases, but most buy their own; and for a large majority (talking security here) they do not get paid vacations; they get paid when they are in country.
As to the number killed, yes there have been a large nunmber killed, but that includes drivers, cooks, - all contractors. A lot of them are killed by indirect fire ie mortars etc as an eg at a base in basra there were 196 rockets / mortars received in a month, which has since rapidly gotten much worse.
Investment Strategy - buying when others are crying!! Offloading when others are gloating!!!
1/2 trillian USD down the toilet Hopefully, Colombia's leaders are learning something from America's failure in Iraq. Above all, Colombia should stop using air power against insurgents, and kick the useless US military advisers out of the country. They could easily turn Colombia's 20K member FARC problem into a 120K member FARC problem.
If the US was only going to waste another 1/2 trillian USD on these contractors, and continue bleeding for a few more years before finally handing Iraq over to Iran, I'd say let them bleed.
But unfortunatley they are radicalizing tens of thousands of otherwise normal people that are now settling in other countries, like the Palestinian refugee camps in Lebenon, and further spreading war beyond Iraq's borders.
vladimiro Just want to comment on one specific issue...
"Above all, Colombia should stop using air power against insurgents..."
With all due respect, the situations are completely different.
What little air power Colombia currently has access to (mostly helicopters and a few planes, which is nothing remotely on the scale of the U.S. air supremacy over the Middle East) is not even within the same magnitude range and is absolutely essential in more ways than one, as long as the conflict has a military component.
I don't want the conflict to have an exclusively military solution, and I see your point, but at this moment, I'd say that it's actually the drug fumigation campaign (which isn't exactly "air power" using conventional definitions) that contributes the most to radicalization in Colombia in the manner you describe, more than anything else.
Colombia's conventional bombing capabilities are laughable when compared to those of the U.S., and most of that is applied in isolated and underpopulated areas, not in densely populated locations. The amount of "collateral damage" in both scenarios doesn't even need to be compared.
And even that is certainly not enough to conclude that "air power" as a whole should be kicked out of the equation.
