A 4/5 week all-bus trip through Colombia too crazy?

Gator says on Apr 15, 2005, 21:04:

Take the buses... just restrict travel to daylight. Not so much to be safe but so you can catch the beautiful Colombian countryside. I live here and as others on this site know I am a big backer of bus travel. Just take one of the express buses which have airline type seating, TV, rest rooms, etc. San Agustin and Ciuadad Perdida are not the safest bet. Plus it is a rough hike to the Ciuadad Perdida on foot.

I would plan my route so I did not go from like Popoyán to Bogotá which is 18 hours + or -. You will likely grab the bus in Ipiales to Popoyán than make shorter trips. To get to Cartagena or Santa Marta from Bogotá you would need say 20+ hours. Even a 300 km trip will take about 6 hours.

You are RIGHT. It is NOT as bad as it seems, Have a great trip

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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platano says on Apr 15, 2005, 21:31:

It would be great if you could travel more than five weeks... to see more of Colombia's beauty. I have travelled by bus all over Colombia. One of my favorite "departamentos" (states) is Risaralda. (Don't just take buses, go to places only visited by "colectivos" or "chivas" or by foot.) Places like Guática, Belén de Humbría, Mistrató, and San Antonio del Chamí are some of the places I enjoyed... a beautiful part of the country. Places to get off the bus and walk around and visit with people. Have a cup of tea, relax and enjoy.

The bus driver was very friendly. He even warned me to get off the bus in San Antonio del Chamí because "los muchachos se encuentran más abajo" and if I went any further down (beyond Rio San Juan into Chocó) I would be in guerrilla territory. Of course, from the chicken wire over the windows of the police station to prevent grenades from being thrown in, and the pock marks from bullet holes in the adobe, it looked like I was already in a corner of guerrilla territory... and lovin' every minute of it!

The Colombian Constitution guarantees the legal right to travel to every corner of Colombia, and I exercised my rights! I also flew to Leticia and walked to Tabatinga, Brazil. Got a bad case of the no-see-ums, (under my clothing), but I'm hyper allergic to insect bites.

This was all years ago... when the "public safety" situation in Colombia was worse. I think the situation has changed completely for the better. People there tell me things are getting better and better in Colombia every day with Uribe.

Have a great trip!

Plátano, still dreaming of those days in San Antonio del Chamí. ¡Qué belleza! ¡Qué gente tan linda! ¡Qué silencio! ¡Qué paz! ¡Mejor que Disney World!

plátano

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Scalestick says on Apr 15, 2005, 22:03:

5 to 6 weeks....me too I'm sorry but I have no information for you as I have yet to go there but I have a six week trip planned for the the end of June, but after reading about all the great places and seeing so many wonderful pictures, I'm trying to figure out a way to stretch it out a couple extra weeks. A year and a half? You two must have seen a lot of wonderful things along your journey. Have fun, I plan to.
Buena suerte

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carter says on Apr 16, 2005, 12:53:

Similar to my first trip I think my first trip was a month and I started in the Amazon you can fit it all in in 5 weeks but your really rushing things.

I started in the Amazon on the boat from Iquitos to Leticia a trip that I really recommend. I also recommend doing a guided tour down tributries there as you will see a lot more wild life. Also get a local to take you around the floating part of town in Iquitos by boat.

The boat rides great just need a hammock and everything else you need is on board, it can get very crowded.

I went Leticia, Bogota, Cali, medillion, Cartagena, Santa Marta, Taganga, Parque Tyrona and back to Bogota. and this took me a month.
I then cancelled my ticket and stayed in Colombia for 8 months, then left and came back to live and open a hostal.

Looking back on that trip I wouldn't recommend it as I found a lot nicer places to visit since living here, but it depends on your interests. You might want to reconsider Cali, Medillion, Santa Marta and Bogota as they are all big cities and you'll get the general drift by visiting one or two of them. For me the small towns are the highlight of Colombia.


Bus travels fine in most cases be bit more careful of buses running east-west but the two main roads running North South are fine. The bus route Sta Marta to Bogota can be travelled over night and as its a 20 trip you have no choice unless you want to stop and visit me.

If you need anymore info send me a PM.

After being in Lima you will find Colombian cities feel alot safer. You still have to stay alert though but Im sure your prepared for Colombia if you've travelled through Sth America

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Gringillo says on Apr 16, 2005, 13:28:

Too Crazy While many here have traveled by bus all over Colombia without incident, doesn't mean its safe. In fact, Colombia still can be very dangerous, even away from the mountains and even during the day. I especially wouldn't this with your girlfriend, as her safety should be more important than your desire for adventour. I too wanted to do this but my friends in Bogota, Medallin and Cali all stated it should not be done. Especially by a foreigner. Its still to risky. While people in this post have good intention, just living or traveling in Colombia does not make them experts on security issues. Why not think this through again. Limit your travel and fly to more destinations.

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juanalejo says on Apr 16, 2005, 14:14:

Gringillo I totally disagree with your appreciation, I another post of yours you are taking about sound advice and then you are scaring people away from travelling around. The route proposed by these people is a highly transited route which I personally have done quite frequently throughout many years up to now. Just like you are saying that people might not be experts, definitelly somebody like you that relies on second hand information should definitelly not be giving advice on the situation. Sound advice is personally knowing the area and then giving advice.

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adrimm says on Apr 16, 2005, 14:54:

Considerations. If you had someone local (and in the know) travelling with you or advising you on each leg then sure, otherwise probably not (A few legs here and there sure, but the whole thing - you've got a few very long routes). I don't doubt that the above posters have had enriching and uneventfull bus trips. I've had them too. But I have also sat on a bus with my mother and an aunt praying that it won't be stopped in a certain area, and have had relatives plucked from vehicles between cities.

Muggings, theft, and petty crime aside (for which the risks in Colombia are fewer or the same as the rest of Latin America) there are other elements outside of Colombian cities to consider and situations can change quickly. If you do not have someone local advising or travelling with you then it can be difficult to know what may be happening "on the road".

What you also must understand is that to most Colombians any foreigner = wealthy person. If they catch a wiff that you can afford to travel around for 1 1/2 yrs (no matter how ultra low budget), the assumption then is that you must be loaded, or come from a loaded family. Colombian scenery is truly spectacular and diverse, as are the small towns (which are the true gem and cultural indicators of most nations), but to be perfectly honest similar scenery is also available scattered throughout neighbouring countries.

Although Colombia is well-off the foreigner tourist-trail, there is an internal tourist trail travelled by Colombians. It includes charming and historical small towns, often within a few hours of the larger cities, and these are the sorts of places that I would advise you to see. As you will notice what is considered "beaten trail" in Colombia often feels far "off the beaten path" for those who have travelled.

I know that this is probably not what you want to hear, but internal flights within Colombia are plentiful, and can cut out long hours on roads with crazy drivers and other issues, so consider them for at least a few portions of your travels. Safety needs to come before trophy-experiences.

There is an interesting discussion of safety in rural colombia here if you want to talk about small towns. http://www.poorbuthappy.com/colombia/node/8432

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Gringillo says on Apr 16, 2005, 15:02:

Juanalejo your right. Juanalejo I agree that my comments in this post were a little overboard. I gave much more thought to the post I created, to which you agreed. Excuse my rush to reply in this one.

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Principe says on Apr 16, 2005, 15:16:

ditto adrimm adrimm hit it right on the head. Your plan slightly too adventurous for the risk. Save the hours and fly the long routes and then bus to the sites you want to see. I.e. I would not bus uop from Equador to Cali. Why not just fly to Cali and then bus down to Popayan and San Agustin. Then why bus from Cali to the Pacific Coast? Why not fly to Santa Marta and have much more time and then you will have more to to see what you re3laly want to see, you won't have to travel at night and you will have a chance to talk to the locals to see if the roads are dangerous. I just spent a few months in Barranquilla and I went to Santa Marta, Taganga, Tayrona and Cartagena numerous times. Granted I was with my Colombian girlfriend who knows Santa Marta and a lot of people in Santa Marta... I.e. When in Santa Marta and the road to Tayrona from Santa Marta a lot more poeple then you think are involved, related to , or novio/novia of a paramilitary. She spots them out left and right. You will not have this luxury with your girlfriend. But quite frankly, I really don't think they will mess with you. But you and your girlfriend will be a much greater target than I was b/c I was traveleing with a group of Colombians and can blend in.. I.e. if there is any chance of a problem.....
I'm from Bogot and I don't say a word... "even though I do speak Spanish very well." I actualy think your most dangerous parts will be the parts South of Cali b/twn Cali and the Equador border but I am no expert nor do I know that area very well.. mainly b/c as risktaker as I am... no one would let me do it... and if the Colombians won't go with me than that tells me something. I suggest you do your trip in 5-6 weeks.. but fly the long routes. THe less bus travel you do, the less chance something significantly real bad can happen. It is Colombia though... shit happens. I.e. the owner of the house I lived at for 2 months in Barranquilla got robbed of a million pesos right in front of our house in mid daylight. He lelft the bank, took a cab home, got out of the cab, stuck his key in the door and 2 different motorcycles from 2 diff directions sped right to him, both hiolding guns to his head and insisted all his money. He emptied his pockets and they wouldn't let him go.. they knew he had more. Sure enough, he did. He had put it in his crotch.. and they got all of it. You know why... because the bank employees tipped them off. Welcome to Colombia. Yes, even the good old tellers at the bank are in on many crime scenes. Man comes in, withdrawals 1 million pesos. Scratches his head or makes a motion to his partner in crime that is in one of the bank lines. THe guy in the bank lie then leaves, goes outside, calls another partener in crime from his cellphone outside and suddenly a team of 5+ criminals has their target... and there is absolutely nothing you can do... and this is on a 55 year old male hardworking Colombian that looks like he's no goldmine. This is Colombia. The criminals are ruthless and they'll take every opportunity they can to make their score. Gringo or not. But since you are a gringo and you are 2 gringos... better watch out. It's not meant to scare you, it's just meant to show.. why put yourself in a bad situation when you can plan better. Planning is what you should do. Think real hard about those numerous 10-15 hr bus rides. You can get from any city to any other city for about $50 on a plane. Well worth it in my opinion.

One last note... while your biggest fear is to be kidnapped by Farc, ELN etc... and you might think the chances of that are slim.. don't forget that all it takes is one idiot that wants to make or thinks he can make a few hundred thousands pesos by kidnapping you or selling you to one fo these organizitions... and then you will really be wishing you just hadn;t run into that one idiot that sold you for less than $100. My advice again... forget the long bus rides. Fly and then take the bus rides to Popayan , Ciudad Perdida etc once you are a few hours away... I.e. from Cali and Santa Marta. You'll be less tired and you significantly limit your risk IMO. These roads are risky as well.. but I know you are probably going to do it anyways just from reading your post. So good luck and limit your risks.

Just my advice and I do agree with everything adrimm said.

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juanalejo says on Apr 16, 2005, 15:28:

Sound Advice Principe you consider sound advice not travelling between Pasto and Cali on the panamericana, but you advice going from Cali to San Agustin through a small dirt road near Toribio where the guerrilla blew the town away two days ago. See this is what upsets me, ignorant advice. Pasto to Cali is fine during the day, at night is very lonely but it is an important high transit road. Cali to San Agustin is high risk area in the middle of jungle, guerrilla influence territory.
Kcrosman my advice is to search for advice in the lonely planet for travelling in Colombia, most people in this site are Americans who are married to Colombians whose only foreign visit in a developing country has been to Colombia and have no idea how crime is something to deal with in most of the world. Colombia is actually safer than most south American countries if you stay away from guerrilla controlled areas. Scenery is not seen in most places and if you miss the land travel you will miss most of what backpackers are looking for, which is a real country experience, which is not a hotel and beers in a nice resort in the Caribbean.

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Principe says on Apr 16, 2005, 15:38:

no.. I don't even advise going anywher south of Cali... but I know he's going to do it. Thus might advise.. fly to the big cities.. talk to the locals and find out if the roads to where you wnat to go are safe and then go there. I.e. if a town was blown up 2 days ago is it safe? proabbly not and he'd get this avvise.. but had he not flown to Cali first he would have traveled that road anyways, right?

I always think that long hauls on a bus are dangerous b/c in my opinion if you make 25 of these 20 hour long hauls... soemthing will eventually happen regardless of how safe it is from guerillas. Guerillas are not your only concern. Sure I'd stay clear of guerilla zones if possible, but if I were to choose from going into a guerilla zone twice or making 25 long bus rides I think the chances of somehting bad happening are pretty close to equal... (for a US citizen)... and yes I do think there is a huge difference from a US citizen and a European citizen.. why I do not know ... but there is. So if you have to go through guerilla zones.. which he does and he will as we all do... might as well try to limit some of the other risks. Why make your trip one huge porrly planned risk?

Oh and I while it is an ok idea to read Lonely Planet.. no way I base my ideas on what the security situaton on a certain area is beacuse that's wha t abook said. LOCALS, LOCALS, and more LOCALS. That's what safety is all about in my opinion.

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Atogob says on Apr 17, 2005, 06:23:

Bus Trips My own experiences:

Been on 2 bus trips, one to cali and another to Melgar where the Exercito stopped us and asked all the men to get off for frisking. On the way back to Bogota our bus broke down when got to the city limits of Bogota. Both were night trips with la Magdalena bus line I believe. If you're super self conscious, I would advise a gtingo against travelling alone. In my opinion, a gringo would stick out like a sore thumb on these bus trips. Even so aside from the high speed driving the trip was uneventfull. The rest stop we hit on the way back from Cali had a complement of 6 exercitos, courteous and polite.

Also, I'm Portuguese so I can pass for a Colombian (until I open my mouth) so at first glance my Colombian amiga and I looked like a dime a dozen couple on weekend getaway and not the sterotypical gringo traveller.

In a perfect world I'd fly but the bust trip cost from Bogota to Melgar was like $8 per person and cali $22 per head for Cali vs $100 usd or more for a flight. I believe in the law of averages though and it would be a matter of time before something happened. Based on my experiences in Portugal bus accidents are pretty brutal. Statistics prove that flying is still the way to go.

Hope this helps.

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carter says on Apr 17, 2005, 11:45:

In my experiences As a hostal owner here and travelling by bus in Colombia for over a year I am yet to have any problems, there are some buses that i have taken and wouldn't advise but these are not on your route. On top of this I have met 1000{s of backpackers here, during 2003 I lived at the Platypus hostal in Bogota and was meeting around 30 backpackers a day and I am still yet to meet one backpacker who has had a problem on the bus in Colombia (other than getting things swiped from bags)

There are 100's of backpackers travelling in Colombia by bus everyday something that is hard for people on this site to understand as they don't pass through the hostals full of backpackers. More than likely you'll hop on a bus and have a gringo next to you. This by all means doesn't make things 100% safe and you need to keep your wits but you have obviously travelled so you know how to look after yourself.

One point is that not one backpacker has been kidnapped off a bus in the past three years that I have heard about. Doesn't mean thats its not gonna happen but you would be the first.

I agree the bus rides Sth of Cali would be your greatest concern but I'd estimate over 5 gringos a week taking this bus ride with little problems.

Its hard for some people on this site understanding people catching 20hr bus rides but Im sure you've had longer ones in your travels and $30 extra you pay for the flights is out of most backpacker budgets. Im sure someone will post that its a small price to pay for security.

People here tell you to get advise form locals my advice is to contact the hostal you are headed to next and ask them about the road your about to take and ask the hostal your leaving. These people will know better than anyone else how many foriegners are travelling safely on this road each day or if there have been new problems in the area.

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 17, 2005, 12:32:

I had to laugh at this comment: "More than likely you'll hop on a bus and have a gringo next to you." Other than myself I've never seen a gringo on a bus. In fact I hardly ever see gringos anywhere down there. Of course I haven't spent much time in Cali or Bogota, the main gringo destinations.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 17, 2005, 12:35:

I think there must be someone on earth who has done something simillar, however I do think it might be a little bit risky...it all depends on the time of the year, if you could do it in July when everyone is on vacation security tightens up a little and that usually is very helpful...If you do it have a great time but to be very very honest with you, Id rather fly.

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 17, 2005, 12:36:

Last time I was in Cali I didn't see a single gringo in a 6-week period I stayed there (that was two years ago), except a couple that have been living in Cali forever. I wasn't looking for them either, I must confess and didn't hang out at ChipiChape at the sunset...
Cheers,
Desi

"I have opinions of my own, strong opinions, but I don't always agree with them."-President George W. Bush

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adrimm says on Apr 17, 2005, 15:47:

Long bus rides From someone who has sat on a Greyhound for 84 hrs straight: the novelty wears off after about 12 hours. I've also been involved in 2 consecutive vehicle accidents in Colombia so this flavours my ideas of road safety there (ie. Crazy drivers).

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juanalejo says on Apr 17, 2005, 18:31:

no comparison You can not compare driving through Colombia and driving through the USA. In the US just Miami to Orlando is boring enough to fall asleep on top of the wheel. In Colombia 9 hrs to Cali and there is a surprise every half an hour. 84 hrs straight must have been like going to hell and back.

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Copete says on Apr 17, 2005, 18:47:

Not so long legs Except for the Santa Marta-Bogota leg, none of the legs kcrosman is considering takes more than 8 hours to travel. And each of then is at least 10x more interesting than what you get in a typical Greyhound journey. And having traveled Santa Marta-Bogota by land many many times, I wouldn't hesitate to say it's absolutely OK to do. If I were you, though, I'd go from Santa Marta to Bucaramanga (about 10 hours), and from there stop a couple of times on the way to Bogota. This a very nice stretch of road.

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juanalejo says on Apr 17, 2005, 18:54:

Agree I absolutely agree, I would go from the Caribbean coast to Bucaramanga instead of directly to Bogota and then go via the Chicamocha Canyon to San Gil and on to Barichara, then on the way back to Bogota go via Villa de Leyva. This part of the country is one of the prettiest. Ask Carter about it, he is the expert in Santander.

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adrimm says on Apr 18, 2005, 11:10:

Not in the USA ;) Well when that 84 hour bus ride includes British Columbia I'd have to argue that the scenery is easily on par with Colombia, but that's the only part that is quite as spectacular. The 84 hours *was* hellish, took my back 2 days to recover.

The Chicamocha Canayan is spectacular scenery if a little dry, I've bussed it several times myself, and aside from a breakdown about 1 hr out of San Gil (Copetran), had a lovely time. BUT last time I was there (on a daytrip to Barichara from Bucaramanga), was when we had one of the aforementioned accidents. At the time there were no guard rails and it was luck only that we got mashed against the cliff; had we been hit travelling the other direction we would have gone off the edge into the canyon.

So you'll understand my discomfort with that road. In terms of scenery my favourite drive in Colombia is the one between Bucaramanga and Cucuta, just stunning, but unfortunatly not always a driving option.

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carter says on Apr 18, 2005, 11:37:

Paragliding in Chicamocha Im going paragliding in the canyon on Friday with some clients. Is there anyway of adding video Clips of Rafting and Paragliding to this site?

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kcrosman says on Apr 18, 2005, 16:42:

a little confused Thanks everyone for the great comments, although I must admit I am a little overwhelmed as there seems to be 2 camps to this bus vs plane debate. I just don't feel we would get that good of a feel for the country if we just took planes everywhere we went. And as someone pointed out the route only involves 2 long bus rides, but I know anything can happen on any length of bus ride. The reason we picked the route as it just looked like the most possible, but as we are not big city fans the info on the smaller towns was of special interest and links to other forums was very helpful and I will be researching that shortly. We have another 3 weeks before we reach Colombia, so still a lot of thinking and planning to do. We all end up doing what we want to do, but this feedback has been very helpful nonetheless. On to more gut-churning research!!!

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Gator says on Apr 19, 2005, 09:58:

kcrosman. Send me a private message

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

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