600 Guerillas in prison don't want to be traded

billyb says on Jan 17, 2008, 07:00:

*

Dan says on Jan 17, 2008, 07:15:

maybe those still out there will get word of this and change their minds too.

God Bless America!

cassini77 says on Jan 17, 2008, 07:20:

And you are sure that nobody applied pressure on them? Jajaja.

tasco66 says on Jan 17, 2008, 07:36:

Yep, being captured is probably the best thing that happened to them…

Cassini they have experienced the Farc and want nothing else to do with it anymore…

We know you can’t face the truth…remember when you did not believe Uribe, when he said Enmanuel was not in Farc hands?

Veni, vidi, vici

podborski says on Jan 17, 2008, 07:37:

yeah but do you have any material proof of this billyb? I mean, just because a respected newspaper says so doesn't mean anything ya know? Did your sources confirm it? have you personally interviewed these 600 guerrillas?

sorry, just procrastinating today so thought I'd do the apologists' work for them : )

cassini77 says on Jan 17, 2008, 07:41:

And you, when you believed Uribe when he said there were not military operations in the area of the release in December ? Clara and Consuelo have said there were operations that impeached them to be freed. Uribe said it was because Emmanuel was in Bogota ...

tasco66 says on Jan 17, 2008, 08:00:

"Clara and Consuelo have said there were operations that impeached them to be freed"

Yep, that’s what the Farc told them for the reason of not being released….the real reason was that they could not find Enmanuel…Uribe was right...

Veni, vidi, vici

tasco66 says on Jan 17, 2008, 08:10:

Cassini, diaries of one of your European comrades was found in a farc camp and this is what it said:

Diary secrets of Dutch woman fighting for FARC

By JEREMY MCDERMOTT
IN MEDELLIN

COLOMBIAN forces have captured the intimate diary of a Dutch woman who joined the country's Marxist rebels, in which she gives a rare view of life with the guerrillas deep in the jungle.

In July, elite troops swept into the camp of a commander of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), known by the alias of Carlos Antonio Lozada.

He was wounded in the firefight and carried off by bodyguards, while women in the unit, who were bathing at the time, had to flee into the jungle in their underwear.

As the troops sifted through the camp, they came across two surprises. The first was Lozada's laptop computer, which held a treasure trove of intelligence, including confidential army plans of counter-guerrilla operations, revealing the extent of FARC infiltration into the military.

The second surprise was two battered notebooks, the journals of a guerrilla, written in Dutch.

Among the entries was: "24 November, 2006. I am tired, tired of the FARC, tired of the people, tired of communal life. Tired of never having anything for myself. And this might be worth it if I knew what we were fighting for."

That woman, known in the FARC as "Eillen", is actually Tanja Nijmeijer, 29 - her identity was confirmed by the Dutch after a photo of her stored on the captured computer was published. Her parents live a middle-class neighbourhood in Denekamp, near the German border.

She is a languages graduate from the University of Groningen, who first went to Colombia in 2000 as part of a university exchange to improve her Spanish. She returned in 2002 and entered guerrilla ranks.

The FARC have long recruited women, who make up about a third of the 12,000-strong army. The group, founded in 1964, is now the most powerful insurgency in the western hemisphere and, as a result of the drugs trade, perhaps the richest in the world. Despite having so much cash, guerrillas receive no salary, yet once in the ranks cannot leave and are subject to fierce discipline that controls every facet of life.

On 23 August last year, "Eillen" wrote: "I called home! Mum cried and Dad too. Now all I have to wait for is my punishment."

She went on: "At times I want to stop following orders. Following the orders of a bunch of sexists that try to kill birds with hunting rifles. I feel like a nobody all day; I am not useful and I have to do what every idiot tells me or I get fined."

Control in the ranks of the FARC extends to relationships. If a woman guerrilla girl wants to be with a man the commander has to give his approval.

The Dutch woman's journal revealed: "June 13. I have got a friend. We have negotiated and he is going to speak to the boss to see if we can be together. Without even a kiss or anything. Pure negotiation. The guy is interesting and handsome."

It is clear from the diaries that there is a great deal of promiscuity in the guerrilla ranks and, it appears, AIDS.

"21 July. There are two comrades with AIDS, perhaps more. Here, nobody uses condoms. As far as I know the girl has no idea what it means. She told me the news smiling and her partner does not appear worried. A third girl who slept with the guy is well depressed."

The FARC pride themselves on equality of life in the movement and an adherence to Communist ideology. Yet it appears there are the privileged and the unprivileged, and "Eillen" sees herself in the latter category. "What will it be like when we take power? The women of the commanders will have Ferraris, breast implants and eat caviare. At least that is how it seems," she wrote.

The Dutch intelligence service is investigating the FARC's reported recruiting activities in the Netherlands, and it is also attempting to ascertain whether "Eillen" is now being held against her will by the group.

Her friends and family told the Dutch authorities she joined of her own free will, against her parents' wishes, because she wanted to help the victims of poverty and oppression in Colombia. Now, however, the diary shows she is tortured with uncertainty and regrets.

"13 June. Sometimes I dream of my mum and Elle and I wake up crying. Always the same question: did I do the right thing? Would I have been happy if I had stayed a civilian in Holland? What would I be doing? Would I be going out with someone, married, with kids?"

With her diaries having been published for the world - and her FARC bosses - to read, there are fears for her future.

Ms Nijmeijer's family told the Dutch broadcaster NOS that they had kept quiet about their daughter's involvement with the FARC out of concern for her safety, and fear that her diary's appearance in the media could endanger her life.

"By joining the FARC, she has gone extremely far in her idealism," they said. "We have the strong im
pression that she has been influenced badly by certain contacts. Because of her idealism, she was naturally also very sensitive to external influences."

According to the family, Ms Nijmeijer's mother travelled to a guerrilla camp in 2005 to try to persuade her daughter to return home, but "Tanja's mind was not to be changed".
HOSTAGES KILLED BY GUNSHOTS

ELEVEN Colombian state legislators killed while being held by the FARC died of multiple gunshot wounds, a team of international forensic experts investigating their causes of death has concluded.

But authorities said it could still take months before they are able to sort out conflicting accounts of the events leading up to the hostages' deaths.

The International Committee of the Red Cross recovered the bodies on Sunday in the southern state of Narino, following a week-long mission in a nearly impenetrable jungle.

Veni, vidi, vici

cassini77 says on Jan 17, 2008, 08:12:

There were already posts about her some time ago.

tasco66 says on Jan 17, 2008, 08:20:

Maybe if you joined the Farc for a few months, you would change your mind about them like this Dutch girl…

Veni, vidi, vici

Rob77 says on Jan 17, 2008, 08:46:

I'm not at all surprised by the petition, when you think about the fact that many were forced to join the FARCe, and the lives of their families were threatened if they did not collaborate. Most of them have seen first-hand how the FARCe is just a bunch of violent, drug criminals, hiding behind old ideologies. Many of them just want to go home and live in peace by legal means.

Best thing that could happen to Colombia is to get some balls, and add the death penalty for leaders of these groups!

BOYCOTT CITGO - CHAVEZ SUCKS!!!

gato-bandido says on Jan 17, 2008, 09:18:

http://www.elheraldo.com.co/ELHERALDO/BancoConocimiento/M/mhorror2/mho...

tasco66 says on Jan 17, 2008, 10:10:

"Farc habrían asesinado a tres menores por negarse a ser reclutados

La denuncia la hizo una mujer ante la Defensoría del Pueblo en el Putumayo, quien asegura que hombres de ese grupo insurgente dieron muerte a su hijo de 14 años porque ella no se lo quiso entregar.

Indicó que otro caso similar ocurrió con una vecina suya con un niño menor que el suyo, y aseguró que fueron obligadas a salir del lugar y que los hombres les quemaron sus casas cuando estas se disponían a salir de las mismas."

Farc’s motto is “fight with us or die"

Veni, vidi, vici

jack_jason says on Jan 18, 2008, 09:28:

Cassini (o lets say Chavez?), please do not think that Colombian people act like Chabiburro and his secuaces las FARC. Chavivestia uses to buy people with petro-dolars to agree with his madness, and if they do not agree, Chaviasshole will make them agree by force.

This is just spanglish, please do not correct me

juancegomez says on Jan 18, 2008, 10:34:

While the statement about "500 guerrillas in prison" who would be subject to the exchange keeps being thrown around in the press, the number of actual jailed guerrillas varies a lot more than that and if you ask me, it's probably usually higher as well, at this time. I don't know what the exact figures are, of course.

Others have expressed that they would indeed like to be exchanged, and still others have already been freed either through normal mechanisms (read: serving their sentences or using their lawyers) or through unilateral gestures made by the government.

Some of these people who say they don't want to be exchanged may be lying, but I imagine that at least some of them expect to be freed through other means and get right back to FARC in any case. It's not like they are imprisoned indefinitely, which is actually what happens to most kidnapped Colombians.

Mr. Hollywood says on Jan 18, 2008, 10:41:

Any idea what the average sentence is for simply being a member of the FARC? A couple years? And what are they actually charged with?

juancegomez says on Jan 18, 2008, 11:48:

"Rebellion" is the generic charge for people who are simply accused of being members of FARC and nothing else at all.

According the following link, which discusses how equivalent crimes have been treated over the years, the 2001 criminal code established a sentence of 6 to 9 years for rebellion.

http://www.derechos.org/nizkor/colombia/libros/dih/cap3.html

This has probably been modified a bit but, in practice, I think it tends to hover around 5 years, give or take. "Rodrigo Granda" was sentenced to 5 years and 10 months, for example (though, of course, he was released earlier than that)

http://www.ultimahora.com/notas/42635-Sale-de-prision-Rodrigo-Granda-e...

In other words, it's not exactly extremely difficult to lower that figure even more with a bit of good behavior, study or work.

Those who are accused of other charges (homicide, terrorism, kidnapping) tend to have higher sentences, depending on the circumstances.

Man Tequila says on Jan 18, 2008, 13:41:

In theory it makes sense for those who sign the petition to not be traded and to get lighter sentencing. Some potential to dissuade other farcos is there.

In practice, people might sign a petition since they were forced to join under duress, and this is probably true for many. Naturally, potential for abuse is there: a minority may be insincere and seeking lighter sentencing given their odds for trade, some may be guilty of other problems, etc. On the other hand, the act of signing the position may potentially make return to farc suicidal. I think the government should err on the side of leniency for those with good behaviour. The potential also exists for the government to be exaggerating numbers or to try to be scoring a PR hit when the facts differ. Who can say?

pues se me antoja que sus cantares son de una tierra desconocida, y yo le dije si a usted le inspira, saber la tierra de donde soy... con mucho gusto y a mucho honor...