4 advantages of having surgery in Colombia

platano says on Mar 7, 2006, 20:41:

I would dispute numbers 2 and 3 From my personal experience and from an examination of USMLE (United States Medical License Exam) scores... I would maintain that Colombian doctors are not only highly qualified, Colombian doctors are MORE highly qualified than doctors in other countries, and Colombia has BETTER medical education, especially in the areas of opthamology, emergency medicine, and obstetrics. The proof is in the objective testing. Colombians routinely outscore students from other countries on the USMLE. And my subjective experience in Colombian hospitals (where I once spent several days after being released from my kidnapping, and another time had surgery) has been that Colombian hospitals are SUPERIOR... and I'm not even going to mention the nurses! They allowed my wife to sleep in the room near me... do they allow that in hospital rooms in other countries?

:)

plátano

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miamimike says on Mar 7, 2006, 20:45:

YEp-You hit the Nail on the Head ! That greed you speak of within the US Healthcare is what is destroying our Healthcare as we know it ; eventually, it will collapse. Here in Miami(dade county), we have 500,000 uninsured and in the state of Florida, 2,000,000 now are without Health Insurance of any kind. Nice work Jeb Bush.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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arthur brode says on Mar 7, 2006, 20:48:

for more info. on doctors or hospitals in colombia contact arthurbrode at aol.com

http://www.calirentals.net/

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 7, 2006, 21:30:

Incredible.....just incredible!!! Observe the following:

"And my subjective experience in Colombian hospitals (where I once spent several days after being released from my kidnapping, and another time had surgery)"

Above Quote: Arthur Brode

OK, "after being released from my kidnapping". Hmmm, I can't think of anyone that would write about high quality medical care that is prefaced with the fact that they were kidnapped first..........................unless of course, they were in Colombia

Just incredible.....

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platano says on Mar 7, 2006, 21:37:

Gomezman5, So, would it be better to say: "After being shot in a K-12 classroom by a student..." etc. etc. blah blah blah.... people going postal... those things only happen in USA.

Why can't you focus on the positive hospital experience instead of the negative one that got me there? Car accidents, shootings, can happen anywhere. Freak accidents happen... my kidnapping was a very, very unusual event.

Guess I'm just used to seeing the glass half full. I could go on writing good news about Colombia all night... but I have to get some sleep.

:)

plátano

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miamimike says on Mar 7, 2006, 21:51:

Platano, Yes, Depending on the Hospital They do allow a Spouse or S/O to sleep over in American Hosapitals. I observed this personally in Oncology, even where I staffed at in the VA medical Centers. I know one "Particular" Staff Medical Person who turned his head when a Family member snuck in the Family Pet(bird, dog ect)or even closed the Patient's Door on Occassion for a terminally Ill Patient and turned off the Call intercom system when his spouse or Girlfriend or S/O was there for extended visits.....

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Gomezman5 says on Mar 7, 2006, 22:02:

Platano......you may not believe this But, as far as I'm concerned:

"Anyone's kidnapping is an unusual event" ...except for in Colombia

And by the way, Platano, you metntioned that car accidents and shootings happen to. Well, I have great responses (always do) to that assertion too.

Car accidents are just that.....accidents, they're not crimes.

Shootings.....Colombia has their fair shair too. Common street crime (both serious and petty) is very high there but,,,,,,uh I don't think you want to go there.

And GringoD. He was released....so what. The fact is that he was kidnapped. Getting released does not make the situation less serious. The incident happened. Hence from a danger perspective, it does not make a difference if he was released or not. The danger is in the act, not the probability of a favorable outcome.

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tomtom33 says on Mar 8, 2006, 04:56:

Platano If the state of ophthalmology is so superior in Colombia, why was I advised by a Colombian ophthalmologist to go to the States for my detached retina surgery last spring? I have experienced both systems. There is no comparison.

I don't doubt that some doctors in the US are money hungry. However if greed was the sole motivator, why would anyone go to 4 years of medical school after 4 years of college? Then take another year or two or more of residency. And then maybe another year or two or more of specialty training while racking up debts to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars? That dog won't hunt.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 8, 2006, 05:19:

Hell Platano I REALLY admire you, for somebody that was kidnapped in Colombia and yet you still have this positive look of Colombia that many people lost. there are Some people that Colombia have giving them everything, they've never been kidnapped or robbed and still complaint.huh!!

BTW: Congratulation in your Spanish too, it's really really good.

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. says on Mar 8, 2006, 05:58:

Hey guys "for somebody that was kidnapped in Colombia and yet you still have this positive look of Colombia". Well I lived in Bogota for about 18 years, just when i was 12, a couple of guys stole my tennis shoes from me. When I went to san francisco, I had a very serious inconvenient with a couple of guy just because I told one of them to say "sorry" for his rude behaviour, well those guys started punching me and kiking me, I was lucky to knock one of them down, I was very lucky, the another one kept fighting me until the police arrived, well, my english was no very good a that time (it is still no good)so a could not explaine what happened, I had to pass 8 hours in the police station until my parents took me out from there, the two yobs were set free!. The abuse did not come from kipnapers but from "normal" E.U. residents and the E.U. Police!, despite this fact, I like the majority of Gringos and their cities. there is not point to speak badly about a country because 1 is not 100000000000000.

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platano says on Mar 8, 2006, 06:06:

Thank you, Kat1 It took me four years of immersion on the streets of Medellin to learn Spanish. I have never taken a formal Spanish course so it's harder to write than to speak (I have to keep the dictionary handy!)

Now what makes me laugh is that when I think I'm just speaking ordinary Spanish, Colombians will tell me I speak with a paisa accent. LOL!

plátano

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Mar 8, 2006, 06:18:

Well I am astonished!!!! it's better than mine lol, well done I though you were Colombian the first time I started to read your post, when you said you were American I could not believed it. Felicitaciones.

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miamimike says on Mar 8, 2006, 07:22:

Tomtom, that Col Doctor may have better then you think.. What we don't know, as we weren't present for the consultation(s), he very possibly may have been concerned for your well-being. How soon after this Ocular surgery had you planned on Traveling(flying)?" It could have been the Doctor, knowing this, may have referred you to have the Surgery performed in the US due the post surgical complications that may arise proceeding surgery of this type. As far as a Col Opthamologist shying away from Detached Retinal Surgery only because they are not sufficiently schooled and experienced in Colombia is a stretch. Retinal surgery is not Rocket Science(as compared to Neonatal open heart surgery for example)) in this present time.I would think he knew and surmised you may be traveling and simply refrred you to have your surgery in the USA to avoid any complications. Many Docs in other countries would do the same for you and its no reflection on their ability to safely & competently perform surgery. Here in North Miami,Fl. where I live, a few years back I went to an American Opthamologist across the street from my Condo for a consult on Laser Eye Surgery and in his office I observed a Certificate stating he performed a Residency of several months at the Barraquer Eye Clinic in Bogota for Laser Eye Surgery . Imagine that, a Gringo who trained in Bogota to perform Eye Surgery in the US and this American Doctor related that many other US Doctors performing this surgery thought so highly of this Clinic they trained there also. This speaks Volumes about the Level of Competent Surgery(available) in Colombia. Here in the US you experience some great surgery but the trouble is that many here in the USA cannot experience this high level of Surgery due to Costs. Most simply can not afford it. In the last 5-6 years, another 7 million US Citizens will never experience it either as they have joined the Ranks of the Un-Insured here in the US swelling the Ranks to like 45,000,000 US Citizens who have NO health Insurance. Amazing in the Year 2000 and 6, the US, along with South Africa, are the only two western countries without a Modern healthcare system(access)for the General population.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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platano says on Mar 8, 2006, 07:43:

I have already explained this before... I was incredibly lucky for two reasons: mine was a political, not an economic kidnapping; and, I told such bad jokes they couldn't put up with me any longer.

Back to the OP: I also previously posted a link to iatragenic death in the USA, which if I remember correctly, was 300,000 doctor or hospital malpractice-caused deaths...

I would much prefer to be in a Colombian hospital. Fortunately I've only had two major surgeries. The one in an upper-class suburb in New Jersey they almost killed me. When I woke up they said: "we thought we were going to lose you, had to give you several transfusions, the surgeon nicked an artery on the way out." No apology. And before you start surgery they make you sign forms releasing them of any kind of damage suit.

I prefer Colombia.

plátano

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Mar 8, 2006, 07:53:

I think so, I remember him mentioning working with the son of a reknowned doctor who invented or perfected some kind of eye procedure.

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tomtom33 says on Mar 8, 2006, 13:41:

Mike My travel plans had nothing to do with the recommendation. I live in Cartagena. This same doctor had performed laser surgery on me twice in about 4 weeks in an attempt to correct a retinal tear. He just said that, in his opinion, I would be much better off having the surgery in the US.

I also had to have laser surgery on the other eye in the US to repair a tear that they missed in Colombia. The equipment in the US was significantly better.

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poco says on Mar 8, 2006, 13:45:

GIB confirms much about what I’ve seen.
1)much cheaper than in the states.
Yes, but only if you have NO insurance can spend $1,000 plus for travel. India has much better trained doctors and more of the newer equipment. It might be cheaper to fly and stay in India. Some U.S. insurance companies will pay for procedures in India.

2)the doctors here are highly qualified.
Yes, I’d say generally if you exclude learning access to some of the newer equipment and procedures. They can certainly learn if access is available.

3)colombia has some top notch hospitals and medical schools.
Yes, doctors appear to be well trained.

4)the doctors here have integrity.they sincerely care about their patients.they are not cold and only out for the dollar like many doctors in the states.

Listing debatable facts to support a claim that is an opinion listed as an item.

Wonderful,, saying medical delivery is applied cheaper by highly qualified doctors trained in top notch medical facilities by friendlier practitioners does not relate to obtaining the desired results.

Claims taken in their entirety are an opinion, badly and unreasonably applied to support your contention.

My personal experience is that plastic or reconstructive surgeons can be recommended for the first 3 items on the list. Most parts of the world do NOT have insurance to support “beauty treatment”. Breast reconstruction and Lipo suction being an area of high expertise in Colombia. There is a big difference between a Doctor and a Surgeon.

Plastic surgeons live like a king in Colombia, doctors make a good living.

I’m with GIB on his statements, which exactly match my observations.

There is a problem in the U.S. and I HOPE that somehow I can quit paying high insurance premiums and receive cost effective quality treatment in a timely manner for FREE.

Well,, it ain’t gonna happen in my life time. So I’ll continue with my supposition that taking care of myself is better than waiting for someone else to assure my well being.

You younger guys need to get to work,, someone needs to pay.

Oh,, S.S. insurance at age 65 is almost free now. That is if you “worked” a little (very little) and paid into the system.

2005 medical statistics U.S. Gosh,, they forgot to include the "warm and fuzzy" data. Maybe next year.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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miamimike says on Mar 8, 2006, 17:53:

Gib-They sell Fake Medicine here also in the USA !! This is not only limited to Col. The latest and most widely publicized was here in Miami(motherland of all US scams)where 3 Guys from Hialeah and the fourth one was from Weston(30 miles or so from Miami). They were caught Selling "Procrit"(this drug used in many Cancer and Aids patients to boost red blood cell production) which, if its the real deal, cost about $750 for a small 10cc Vial. These guys were manufacturing the Labels and re-constituting the Medicine with Tap Water(contaminated at that)and cuttint the real Medicine by 10:1 so 1 part was the real drug and the other 9 parts were contaminated tap water. They were selling this at $400 a pop so that original 10cc Vial was now earning around $3250 profit.Not bad-800% profit more or less. They caught these crooks and are doing time plus the One Doc(a us doc by the way)has lost his Medical License. This is but one of a weekly example of what you see if you work in the Medical Profession. Anyone who thinks just because its here in the USA its better or because it costs more(medical care) you are receiving better care, then please come here to Miami,: I have some High Dry Florida Swamp Land Lots I will offer you for sale!! The amount of Medical Scams, incompetent Docs, Fake Medicine found here in the USA is simply astounding. I would much rather prefer to take my chances in Col, Brazil, Cuba in a Heartbeat over an operation performed here in the USA. And this from someone who has worked in the US Medical System since 1988.

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Mar 8, 2006, 18:03:

GIB-A Competent US Doctor..... This is another of the many Medical Scams going on here in SOuth Florida and while it was one of the more publicized, others like this occur weekly in the tri-county area.Sure keepks the FDLE(florida dept. of law enforcement)Busy exposing these scoundrels!
Many US Citizens are under the false sense of security that one does not have to perform their Due Diligence when procuring the services of a Surgeon(or General MD) and that is the fartest thing from the truth. Just because they are a Licensed Doc here in the USA does not necessarily mean they are the most competent! They now have a website in every state where you check your Doc's credentials out and if any Board Actions have been lodged against his/her License. Caveat Emptor here in the USA also!
"Fake Botox Doctor Gets Maximum Sentence
Setence: 3 Years In Prison, 1 Year Probation
McComb Injected Himself With The Toxic Substance



(CBS4/AP) FT. LAUDERDALE A federal judge sentence Back McComb to three years in prison for injecting three people and himself with a near-lethal dose of fake Botox that left all four of them in a coma for months.

McComb used the fact that he injected himself with the toxic cosmetic injection knock-off in his plea for a lenient sentence in front of US District Judge James Cohn earlier Thursday. Despite this, the judge sentenced him to the maximum allowed under a plea bargain made earlier this year, along with one year probation.

Bailiffs transported McComb immediately to the Miami-Dade County Federal Detention Center, as he limped because of damage caused by the botulin poison he injected himself with. This is where he will serve his sentence.

You can hear his attorney’s comments in CBS4’s Art Barron’s, report on CBS4 News Tonight.

After a nearly 10-hour sentencing hearing, Judge Cohn said he found the testimony of Dr. Bach McComb's victims "compelling" and that McComb had recklessly caused harm to others.

"The physical and mental harm caused by the defendant's actions are immeasurable," Cohn said.

McComb, 48, pleaded guilty Nov. 10 to charges of providing botulinum toxin type A that was not approved for human use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. Prosecutors say McComb was part of a conspiracy of doctors and companies seeking a cheaper alternative to Botox, which is manufactured by Allergan Inc.

McComb and his lawyers sought a lighter sentence, arguing that the poisons were the result of a mistake and not intentional. Speaking in his own defense, McComb apologized for his actions.

One factor in Cohn's decision to impose the maximum sentence was the fact that McComb's license as an osteopathic physician was suspended when the injections were made.


McComb and his lawyers sought a lighter sentence, arguing that the poisons were the result of a mistake and not intentional. Speaking in his own defense, McComb apologized for his actions.


While working with a suspended medical license as a doctor at Oakland Park's Advanced Integrated Medical Centers McComb injected himself, girlfriend Alma Hall, and Eric and Bonnie Kaplan of Palm Beach County botulism toxin not authorized for use in humans. All were poisoned and almost died, and were unable to speak, swallow or breathe on their own.They all were intubated and placed on a Ventilator as they were unable to breathe without the assist of mechanically induced ventilation.

All were hospitalized for months and now have seen varying degrees of recovery".

Daniel Lastra, CBS4.COM

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Mar 9, 2006, 03:36:

Leave Miami! The place is not normal.



I once read in a financial publication that most of the small time "bucket shop" scams in the commodities and securities industry are masterminded in Southern Florida, even though the industry is based in New York and Chicago. Warm weather, beaches, no state income tax, and when the Feds eventually catch up with you and you file for bankruptcy, at least your wife and kids can keep the McMansion due to generous bankruptcy laws. It worked for O.J.!



;-)

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miamimike says on Mar 9, 2006, 05:36:

I will be leaving Miami Tinto Hopefully later this Spring. I am throwing in the Towel. I had a lot of Fun here in Miami..... Undeniable, the Fun--- but the Overbearing Traffic Congestion, Super inflated Home Prices , Super High Home insurance Prices and Real Esate Taxes(poised to go even higher as more home insurance companies announce their exit), Scams in all facets in Daily Life, have rendered the lifestyle simply not worth the headache. It was a great experience though and have no complaints. I bought my Condo at the Bottom feeding price and will get out at the Top. No complaints there. Great Beaches and a lot of great people I have met not to mention the beautiful ladies. You are right, this is a Natural Fecal Colander for many scam-artists and crooks-don't know if its due to the Natural location(bottom state), the Loose Bankruptcy laws, Profoundly Crooked Miami Area Politicians(all levels), the fact many con-artists(trampistas) from the Northern US and South America, Carribbean and Europe see this(miami) as a lucrative area to ply their "Craft" on the Unsuspecting populace its hard to say-probably a combination of all of these. At any rate its hasta la vista soon, 11 years has been enough for me and my Sanity. Great Place to Vacation or winter in but not to live in anymore. LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Lostgringo says on Mar 10, 2006, 10:36:

Doctors in Colombia I have to comment on topic as I experienced the medical system in Colombia first hand. On the 3rd day of my visit to Bogotá my girlfriend fell and broke her wrist. She was trying to look pretty and was not wearing her glasses. As many of you know the sidewalks in Colombia can be treacherous. She now wears her glasses lol. Anyway, we hailed a taxi and she was rushed off to the hospital. Unfortunately, she was dazed and they took her to a ”public” hospital. She was in a great deal of pain and was crying. At the check in desk they told her to “pick a number.” Her wrist was “broken” and was gruesome to look at. After waiting what seemed like an hour she was fast tracked to see a doctor. At this point they realized she had the best hospital insurance and she had to take a taxi to another hospital. At the other hospital she had to pay ( I think), $15 COP for a “ticket.” Fifteen minutes later she saw a doctor who in my opinion was highly skilled. The following day the doctor drilled a hole in her arm and put in a steel pin. Part of the pin remained exposed and was terrible to look at. The final result was very good. Today her arm is perfect. So if you cannot afford the good medical insurance be prepared to sit and wait for many hours before you get any help…..”pick a number.” There is an obvious two tiered system in Colombia.

So, if you are visiting Colombia you should make sure you have the best insurance possible.

On the downside, my girlfriend has rosacea. Basically, this is the redning of the face. She went to a doctor who specializes in this and he gave her antibiotics. He would never know my girlfriend if he met her on the street as he was more interested in putting data into his computer than speaking in empathic way to her having any eye contact at all. Further research into her disease on the internet revealed that antibiotics are toxic to many Rosacia patients. My girlfriend was very sick from all of this and stopped the medication.

An important factor in slowing this disease down is diet. The doctor never mentioned diet or foods that were toxic to Rosasea patients!

Ok, so now she is going to a naturopath who has a degree from some university in Bogotá. At one point this “doctor” drew blood from her and put in some “vitamins” into the syringe and injected this concoction back into her body. Her condition has not changed! But she continues to see this quack doctor hoping her condition will change in the future. He now has her on a special diet. Alot of bottles filled with who knows what supliments her diet. She pays for this out of her own pocket and it is expensive.

They have special laser surgery here in Canada that can help her, but foreigners are not allowed to use it! That's right, even if they want to pay cash they cannot use it. Something to do with insurance. They do not have nor do they know about this advanced laser treatment in Colombia (from my limited research). What is more disturbing is that if my girlfriend’s condition gets worse, she has no way of taking these so called doctors to task. In Colombia, once you are treated you are on your own.

Last example. I had dental work done in Bogotá. It had many visits to my dentist and I almost had to accept inferior bridgework. That is until I hired a lawyer to intervene. Through hiring my lawyer I found that this dentist was NOT qualified to do specialized bridgework. So what could I do? Nothing! My time was running out in Bogotá and I had to accept the bridgework made for me or go back to Canada with very little teeth. I am still not sure that all of the dental gold I paid for is in my bridge!

You can romanticize, glamorize, hypothesize the quality of doctors all you want in Colombia. As for me, I would rather get any operations etc ., done here in Canada or the US. At least these doctors are accountable.

What and where would I go to report this dentist? What good would it do? Would I be able to sue the dentist? When I was a child I had rheumatic fever. That is the first question dentists ask me in Canada…have you ever had rheumatic fever? I have to take antibiotics “before” I go to the dentist. No dentist in Colombia ever asked me if I had had rheumatic fever.

So why did I get plastic surgery, lasic surgery and extensive bridgework done in Bogotá? Money! Pure and simple. Don’t kid yourself that you are going to get better surgery in Colombia. Most of their technology is inferior to that of Canada and the US. And, they are NOT accountable! There is guarantee! Would I recommed any of the doctors I went to in Bogota? No! No and No! Would I do it again? Well, I a sucker for punishment, but hopefully next time I will be able to afford all of this work in Canada. Would I pay 2 or 3 times more in Canada if I had the money? Absolutely!

In addition, if I am in a hospital I would not like people bringing in birds. What is that all about?

In terms of bogas drugs (meds), as GIB mentions regarding meds is absolutely true. Give the bogas money you are given back to the taxi driver etc and get the real thing back etc. No problem. Common ordinary occurance in Bogogta. Likely similar with the meds lol. And don't forget all the phoney cigars, replica watches, designer perfumes, bogus designer jeans. The list goes on and on. No police involved required. They are not interested. In Canada the police would be all over this stuff. Sure this stuff happens here, but not on the grand scale that it happens in Bogota.

In Colombia the only rule is that there is no rule! What can you expect from organized chaos lol.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Lostgringo says on Mar 11, 2006, 08:05:

Tinto There is no cure for Rosacea. No medications that are full proof. It is even difficult to get rid of the symptoms let alone the disease. There a numerous instances where people have had success. Much of has to do with diet. For example, strawberries trigger most Rosacea patients' redness. The first doctor my girlfriend had about 2 years ago did not even tell my girlfriend to stay out of the sun! This is critical for her. She has to wear sun block all the time and a hat to shield her from the sun. She is desperate to get rid of this redness and it effects her psychologically too. I am hoping that Canadian laws change so that she can have access to this new laser surgery which may get rid of her Rosacea, or at least the redness in her face.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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Lostgringo says on Mar 12, 2006, 19:25:

GringoD Without ruining this thread completely, suffice it to say, my girlfriend like many of us wants results yesterday. This diet she is on with her psuedo doctor takes a long time and is eating up her money.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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protocol13 says on Mar 12, 2006, 23:18:

The coworker that is in charge of the Personnel department at the company I work for, had a Lasik Eye operation done by a US doctor in the Los Angeles area and had a terrible experience. She's had two additional operations to try to correct the prior ones ane now she needs three pair of glasses - for reading for driving and for working on the computer.

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protocol13 says on Mar 12, 2006, 23:26:

Gringoinbogota: My coworker's son was diagnosed for cancer. His parents took him to what is the best doctors and best hospital in LA - LA Children's Hospital. After 1.5 years of mistreatment, misdiagnosis and almost 1 million dollars in insuarnce charges and copayments by the parents, the child died. Due the the low monetary limitations placed on medical malpractice, my friend has been unable to get an attorney. Even here in the USA, there are nightmare incidents involving doctors negligence and malpractice.

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Lostgringo says on Mar 12, 2006, 23:55:

GringoD No I am at franko_44 at hotmail.com. In terms of malpractice it can happen anywhere. Yet you have some recourse. You have very little in a foreign country. If you do go ahead with the surgery in a foreign country you need to do more research than you normally would. And, I would guess it is more difficult to do research in a foreign country. Especially, if you cannot speak the language.

For example, when I learned that my one eye was off about 10% ( I think), I was devastated. I kept thinking "what can I do?" Really, I was at the mercy of the doctor. I was also leaving for Canada and time was of the essance. Fortunately my one eye was corrected with another surgery. It seems ok now but I have not had it checked yet here in Canada. So it is a buyer beware situation. If you think it is worth a try because you are saving alot of money then go for it. In retrospect, I am happy I had all the work done. However, I would not rate any of it more than an 8 out 10.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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tomtom33 says on Mar 13, 2006, 12:42:

Protocol Did you ever stop to think that maybe there is no case? Not even the best doctors and the best treatments have a 100% success rate.

Life is full of nightmares, medical and otherwise.

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Lostgringo says on Mar 13, 2006, 15:27:

you are right tomtom Of course nothing is 100% accept for death and taxes.

Your Home Away from Home www.welovebogota.com and www.apartmentinbogota.com "Luxury apartments and rooms Cheap" Only 2 blocks from the American Embassy! 24/7 hour security.

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plastic surgery in colombia says on Jun 2, 2006, 11:06:

Insurance Colombian doctors also pay a lot for malpractice insurance out of their own pockets. There are good and bad doctors everywhere in the world, including Colombia. One more thing, quality doesn't always depend on the price (the cheaper the worse).
Prices in Colombia are lower just because if they were as high as in the US, no one here would get surgery. It's actually expensive for colombian people, like someone who is poor wouldn't think of getting plastic surgery, as the minimum wage here is USD 160/month.
Prices look cheap to you because of the devaluation of our currency (pesos). It's the same for jeans, clothes, public transportation and so on. I'll give you an example: how much is a pair of DIESEL jeans in the States? i think it's about 200 dollars. Guess how much is the same pair of jeans in here? around 100 dollars. ANd it's not because the quality is worse, it's the same quality and sometimes better, same design, everything. How much is a cab here? between 1 and 2 dollars for like 7 km. Go find out how much a cab in the states charges for the same distance. So there you go... i hope i helped you understand.
P.S: our med schools are actually VERY good. i had one orthopedic surgery done here that doctors in Brasil couldn't believe the results, and i know many many cases of people that couldn't get things done abroad and came here to the best doctors and they saved their lives. I tell you this because my mom's a doctor and she knows well about these cases. Bye bye

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aztec says on Jun 3, 2006, 02:44:

miamimike, where are you moving? Are you staying in the states?

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aztec says on Jun 3, 2006, 03:06:

platano, have to agree about the doctors in Colombia. However, it is extremely important that you are careful in your selection.

We are lucky because my wife was a director in one of the best hospitals in Colombia.( La Asociación Médica de los Andes http://www.ama.com.co/ )She knew many of the doctors and was able to make wise selections.

I believe too many people are unable to make good selections because information is not generally available for the masses. Or they are not sophisticated enough to make educated choices. Of course one could say the same about medicine in the States.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 3, 2006, 05:13:

4 advantages of having surgery in the US 1. If you have any decent medical insurance, it's still cheaper here
2. The Doctors here are more qualified (trust me)
3. Colombia has better hospitals and Medical Schools (trust me again)
4. Doctors here have integrity and probably more so than anywhere in the world and that is in spite of the fact that their incomes have gone down due to HMO and other socialistic creations like managed care. At the same time, their malpractice insurance has gone so forcing many doctors out of various locales becuase they could not afford the premiums. $128,000 a year is a lot to pay don't you think. Yes, so you don't think this is my typing again, my friend who is an orthopodic surgeon must pay $128,000 in medical malpractice premiums for just one year because we have a sue happy public that are being ruining the medical industry with the trial lawyers at the head of the pack.

By the way, you can't sue a doctor and recover money in Colombia nearly as quickly as you can here. Most of these law suits were/are frviolous to begin with.

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Sonny says on Jun 4, 2006, 19:02:

It just does not It just never changes does it G-man? I have not written to much lately, but when I read the statement from Platano again it seems that being kidnapped was the highlight of his life. I guess that the high quality of medical care and kidnapping go hand in hand.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 4, 2006, 19:22:

Sonny....my son I wondered where you have been???

No, I just never changes. Hey, I'm not saying medical care is bad in Colombia. On the contrary, by Latin American standards, it's quite good. In fact, I'll go a step further. I would feel more comfortable paying for medical care in Colombia, then having to deal with the government run medical care systems of Canada, and worse yet, Europe. In Colombia, if the doctor thinks you need an MRI, if you have the $$, you get one, as quick as the next day. In Canada, you get wait listed.

On the other hand, I have great health insurance in the US. I have access to a few of the top medical instituions/hospital in the world. There is nothing in Colombia that rivals the likes of Loyola University Medical Center, Northwestern Univ Medical, Rush Medical center, and of course need I say, University of Illinois and University of Chicago.

By the way, did you ever notice something about these plastic surgery posts? I did. All these so called best plastic surgeons love throwing on their resume that they studied at some prestigious medical institution in the US....come on now.....take a good look at them again. I noticed that. Now I have one question. When is the last time you read about some some American doctor listing on his resume that he interned or studied some place in Latin America that studied under able eyes of Dr. Gomez? Get the point? Good to hear from you Sonny.

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Sonny says on Jun 10, 2006, 05:48:

Hello G-man It is true and I agree with you completely. I also have great doctors here in the US and my cost is only $20.00 or $40.00 if it is an emergency.
I think there are great doctors everywhere but as you stated, they don't always throw their resume(s) out as read here. I try to keep an open mind on certain things surgery minded but I trust the doctors here and it is much easier to track their records. It the doctors there are so great then studing in the USA tell you what you need to know. Betteer here then there.
It is kinda like the boat people. You don't see them leaving here to go there but you see them there coming here. Interesting.
Good to hear from you. It's been a long time.

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miamimike says on Jun 11, 2006, 02:23:

Gomezman, Beleive it or not... the Opthomologist by my condo-123st(about 6 blocks away from that Chinese restaurant you like) has a Certificate that he apprenticed at the Barraquer Eye Clinic under the founder's Son.He's not the only I hear, that Bogota Clinic is ver well known and respected in Miami.

Aztec-sorry I didn't answer sooner-I'm not sure where outside the US I am retiring only that it will be out of the usa. I have a friend in Guadalajara Mexico who wants to sell me one of her Condos for $18K or $22K. I like the City, my ex is from there(hope I don't see her again in this lifetime) LOL. Argentina has even interested me-I'm still in the research phase. My Ladyfriend lives in Bog and has several properties there but security is a concern. Guess I'll have to flip a coin one of these days! LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Gomezman5 says on Jun 11, 2006, 07:40:

Mike.... I am sure that you will be able to find a doctor here and there that might haves studied at some prestigious instituttion in Bogota, but pardon me,these are by far and away the exceptions.

I'll go a step further. Did you even notice that well educated English speaking people from foreign countries, often come to the US to advance their education and careers by attending prestigious univsersities? This happens in all areas especially in business.

I still don't quite get your point Mike. My point is a simple one and a straightforward one. If you have insurance in the US, thank your lucky stars, that you have access to the very best medical care in the world. No exception. If you don't have insurance, then it might be better off for you to go abroad for medical procedures that can be planned in advance. However, if you get chronically sick while here in the states, and your support apparatus is here, what good is traveling abroad going to do you? Part of being sick requires that you have family or loved ones to assist you in your care and recovery. Traveling abroad, to Colombia or whereever is not going to be of much assistance.

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Sonny says on Jun 11, 2006, 07:56:

G-man TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SHAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

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s_bla says on Jun 13, 2006, 17:40:

plastic surgery what is the pourcentage of Colombiana who had surgery ?

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miamimike says on Jun 13, 2006, 19:02:

Gomezman-Not saying everyone is like the Opthamologist who studied at Barrequer, he happened to be the one I saw in my Neighborhood. There may be more. On the Health Insurance, most people I know here in Miami, say in my Condo bldg, have NO health insurance in the US. Close to 550,000 persons in Miami Dade have none; over 2,000,000 Florida overall have no Health insurance.That's the reason so many from Col as well as other south american contries return home for healthcare and surgery, if its for the Elective non emergency variety. Big Problem and only growing worse-folks without Healthcare insurance!

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Jun 14, 2006, 10:18:

One man's perspective FWIW, I've been hospitalized in both the US and Colombia. My overall experience was better in Colombia, in terms of the level of compassion and care given to me by both doctors and staffers. If I needed a proceedure done that was dependent on the highest levels of technical knowledge and equipment, I might consider doing it in a top US hospital, but for regular medical care I'll take my Colombian docs over my US ones any day.

The caveat I'll attach is that both my Colombian and US experience have been at what were some of the best hospitals in their respective countries. I have no idea whether the bottom end of the spectrum is worse in the US or Colombia and I don't wish to find out.

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mcraig says on Jul 27, 2006, 18:31:

Your right the greed of health insurance companies is the problem in the US its not the doctors. I am going to colombia to have some dental work done an a small plastic surgery procedure. I am going to give the colombians doctors every chance to be as good as the doctors in the US an hope it turns out well. But , in all honesty if they would have not dropped the dental insurance at my company , I would stay here an have the work done in a heart beat. I have had 16 surgies done in my short life of 35 years an have had some of the best physicians there could be anywhere in the world.

Now your jab at Jeb Bush or any politician , the USA is a capitolistic country. That means everyone has an opportunity to make there way an pay there way. So dont ask otheres to pay for your healthcare an dont ask otheres to pay for anything you do in your life. This is the same cop out with illegals imigration right now. Everyone wants to call it a race issue which is just a scheme to call it what it is . The middle class in this country are black, hispanic, white , asian , an where tired of paying the bills for everyone else to come in here an have free benefits we have to pay for our own families esaclating medical care. It should be work harder in life to give your family a little better opportunity than you had ,not work twice as hard an spend twice as much time working your butt off to give it to someone else instead of your family. There is no free rides in life .

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miamimike says on Jul 28, 2006, 02:37:

Mcraig, I took a Jab at Jeb Bush as well as other Politicians on healthcare because they have the responsability to ensure that all have the oppurtunity to get a medical procedure at least at a fair cost. That does NOT happen here in Florida where I live(nor in other states either)Un-Insured citizens, in 99% of the cases, Pay More then someone who has Health Insurance. Why should there be a difference in price? Many who self insure have NO health insurance and then end up in many cases paying 50%, even 100% more for the same procedure, in some cases, then someone who has health insurance. These Un-Insured have NO one to negotiate lower rates on their behalf. Many middle age persons who have lost their Jobs for whatever reasons, many through offshore outsourcing, find themselves Un-Insureable due to pre-existing conditions. They may want to buy health insurance but they cannot. For someone who is, say 45 + years old and who has to buy blue cross- blue shield health insurance on their own dime(not in a group plan where you get a big discount)they will get quotes of $800-$1000 Monthly; I ask you, how many here in Florida working a Minimum wage job(or even a job that pays $40K) can afford a monthly price like that? Hardly anyone! Whats the solution? Throw them out on the street? This the mark of a "compassionate nation"? I don't think so! I don't advocate Free health insurance but at least the playing field needs to be leveled and thats not the case here in the US, especially in Florida. And Yes, Jeb's the Governor and he could do more to resolve the insurance crisis in our state. He appoints the Insurance Commissioner who presides over Rate Increase requests so he directly bears a good share of responsability with these unaffordable insurance rates. Small Business and homeowner's insurance rates are at a Crisis stage here in florida but thas another Topic! Recent Case in point, Katherine Harris(a millionaire many times over-her dad left her a citrus fortune), ex secretary of state in florida in the botched 2000 Elections, who is now a Congressperson from Sarasota, Florida. She has very cheap health insurance from the Federal govt which is subsidized by the rest of US Taxpayers. She recently had a cancer scare and underwent tests and the Ovarian Tumor was benign. I'm happy for her but why should some Millionaire Congressperson like her(who could well afford her own insurance payments)recieve Health Insurance subsidized by many working minimum wage jobs here in Florida, when they themselves do not the same oppurtunity to buy Insurance at the same rate or why don't they have the chance to get this life saving diagnostic tests at the same price that Millionaire Katherine Harris has payed. Why is her state of health or life worth any more then a Minimum wage 7-11 convenience store worker? I'm sure the kids of that 7/11 store worker will tell thier Mom's life is just as important as Millionaire's Katherine Harris's life. Unfortuneately here in Florida, it isn't......

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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mcraig says on Jul 28, 2006, 22:43:

i am going to check into into lasik when I am in bogota I thought there was really great eye surgeons there. I mean hell thats where lasik started. Now I am concerned because my correction will be kinda tricky.

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 06:33:

jab a jeb bush , how about look at the constitution Here is your statement !

on healthcare because they have the responsability to ensure that all have the oppurtunity to get a medical procedure at least at a fair cost

Where did you get this , the constitution does not state this anywhere.

The reason there is a health care crisis in Florida is because supplying illegal immigrants with free health care has bankrupted the emergency clinics an taken all your medicaid safety net for the people with out insurance. Same thing in Southern California 17 emergency hospitals have closed down because they dont get paid back for the free services given to illegals an have to shutdown.Same thing is aboout to happen here in Texas in fact hospitals are suing mexico to get there money back an stay open You can always go to a community hospital an show an inabilty to pay an get healthcare on middle class americans back. But again the constitution does not say every american gets free healthcare.

This is a capitolistic country again , when I see people that are rich I dont get jealous they are living the american dream. Somewhere you have gotten off thinking people owe you something you owe yourself to provide for yourself we are not a socialistic country an the middle class should not have to pay for you.

Level the playing field , what does that mean you level the playing field for yourself its not someone else responsibilty to level the playing field for you.

An the governor of the state receives federal money to pay for his states medicaid an medicare that covers people without medical insurance once its gone its gone. This is what happens when people are taking form the system an not payfing full tax returns.

I am going to go to colombia to have my dental work done because my company did away with our dental plan an my wife's job dental insurance covers her an the kids but to add s fifth person me is too expensive. So do I like the fact that health cost are so expensive NO. Do I like the fact that I have to ensure my family has good health care benefits at a high price of coursen not, but dont ask the middle class that is already paying escalating medical care cost to pay for someone else medical bills.

Katherine Harris father made alot of money in agriculture like you said an he gave his wealth to his daughter when he died so what is your beef. Do you think all succesful people in the US should not be able to leave there wealth they earned to there love one's dont give me that argument.

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 06:44:

all americans can go to the county hospital an show an inabilty to pay for meidical care an get healthcare for free. There is a safety net there paid by the middle classes tax dollars.

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miamimike says on Jul 29, 2006, 13:22:

You are 95% wrong on that Health Insurance Issue McCraig No one is jealous of anyone getting rich as is your main statement(why did you off on that tangent?); the problem is Millionaires like Republican Katherine Harris receives Federal medical insurance through her Job subsidized by poor working and middle class Americans. Why should someone like her who can afford to pay receive low cost medical insurance when others have to foot the bill for her??? We are NOT talking about Illegal Aliens receiving care as that is a moot point. Illegal Aliens are NOT entitled to US Healthcare to start with, as far as them having any any rights here in the USA to receive healthcare. We are talking about US citizens/residents having the oppurtunity to purchase healthcare coverage at a reasonable price as Millionaire Katherine Harris is provided. These same folks can't receive this same oppurtunity, Why Not? Thought the USA was about equality,,,,

Your other statement about Americans going to some country hospital for care is a a misnomer also. While they can go there for Emergency treatment, in most cases they are sent packing in 3 days with a handful of Pills and most of the time their Illness is never diagnosed correctly in the first place.

Another Misnomer you wrote is about what is causing the rapid rise in the Price of Health Insurance in Florida is that's its because of all the Undocumented Aliens non-reimbursed healthcare costs. Do you have a link you could post as to where you read that bit of information? Please share it with is?

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jul 29, 2006, 13:33:

Macraig you may want to review this detailed Link as to what really is causing the spike in Florida health Insurance costs. No where does it substantiate your claims, let alone even mention them as a factor....

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/btp/pdfs/miami_2005.pdf

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 13:57:

still blaming people for being rich you can be rich too earn it an its yours but dont blame otheres people for earning it . An
never make a point saying Republican anybody is rich because you would be a fool to think there are not just as many rich democrats as there are republicans. You still think the democratic party stands for the common good of the people the democratic party today is nothing like the democratic party my grandfather reeeled about his whole life so stop bringing politics into a general debate on wealth an healtcare .Democrats stop being democrats when they voted for bankruptcy reform that is the day I knew the gig was up that what you say are democrats an nothing more far left fruit loops that knowone can take serious. Katherine Harris got elected meaning she gets the same healthcare as every republican an democrat voted into office , I dont like katherine harris but she is just getting the same as all elected officials. An the offices she is runnning for now in senate she will probaly lose bue everyone she runs against is a millionaire as well so give up the bias nonsenes if you want to be taken seriously/

An again you are running down the safety net that is there for people without insurance this is a capitolistic country othere should not have to pay for your healthcare. If you want pristine healthcare find a job that provides dont expect otheres to work harder to pay for you.

An you can do a simple search about illegal immigration costs on state's healcare. I will post a few one is just the county of harris in texas doled out 330 million dollars of free healthcare which goes directly to individiuals property taxes in Texas. So texans get the double an triple whammy an there middle class is hit the hardes. We have to pay for the healthcare of illegals, the welfare aid for illegals , the ESL programs an special education needs of illegals an on an on. Its taxiation without representation the very reason why this country was formed it is not an individuals responsibilty to pay for othere services just because.
http://www.warriorsfortruth.com/illegal-aliens-free-medical-care.html
ttp://www.vdare.com/misc/levin_illegals_in_er.htm

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_researchba61?&printer_friendly=1

this one is from the florida hospital association
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2003/feb03/psrfeb03.shtml

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miamimike says on Jul 29, 2006, 14:07:

Hard to discuss this Subject with you macraig Beleive what you may on Florida healthcare...Try reading that Link I left you sometime. You are trying to turn this into a dem/rep arguement and I could care LESS what Party you are and in reality, you are not aware of mine. You keep alluding to the fact that Poor and Middle class AMericans want/expect free healthcare and that's simmply not so but you certainly are free to think that, incorrect as it may be,,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 15:02:

its nto that hard to understand the articles The Sinking Lifeboat: Uncontrolled Immigration and the U.S. Healthcare System - Executive Summary

http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2003/feb03/psrfeb03.shtml
Why Health Care Is So Costly While Americans without health insurance struggle
... The Florida Hospital Association reported that illegal aliens amassed

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_flcoststudy_html
Florida Costs Study Table 1. Size of the Illegal Immigrant Population ...
of justice expenses related to crime costs, insurance, law enforcement, ...

http://talk.ocregister.com/archive/index.php/t-14821.html
The high cost of liability insurance for doctors, to protect them from ...incidence of illegal immigration - California, Texas, New York, Florida

http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back1302.html
Even illegal aliens can receive the EITC.9 With an annual cost of over $30 billion,
... it’sa third and in Florida, Texas, New Jersey, and Arizona immigrant

Dont be cop out an dont expect people to do a simple search for you an dont avoid the problem with spin ,.

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 15:05:

thats a cop out when you can do the reserach yourself with a a search,

http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2003/feb03/psrfeb03.shtml
Why Health Care Is So Costly While Americans without health insurance struggle
... The Florida Hospital Association reported that illegal aliens amassed

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=research_flcoststudy_html
Florida Costs Study Table 1. Size of the Illegal Immigrant Population ...
of justice expenses related to crime costs, insurance, law enforcement, ...

http://talk.ocregister.com/archive/index.php/t-14821.html
The high cost of liability insurance for doctors, to protect them from ...incidence of illegal immigration - California, Texas, New York, Florida

http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back1302.html
Even illegal aliens can receive the EITC.9 With an annual cost of over $30 billion,
... it’sa third and in Florida, Texas, New Jersey, and Arizona immigrant

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 15:13:

I didnt use one example of party politics as an example so how could i be making the topic partisan. The person keeps saying republican katherine harris who is a millionaire like there is not the same amount of rich democrats as republicans an averyone running against harris as a democrat is not a millionaire. I dont get into party BS to me after getting a degree in international economics which 50% studies of countries economic patterns an situations an effects an 50% the study of other countries politcal science its a cop out to me for anyone to discuss party with any political topic. People have forgotten that politics is about doing the peoples business an solving the people's needs its not about a party at all. An it makes laugh you are taught your whole life to think for yourself an make good decisions but once you start talking about political issues people want to run the safey of a party so they dont have to think for themselves what is right an wrong .

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 17:54:

I am gonna shake the hand of the next illegal immigrant i see, maybe even give him a ride to the nearest public hospital, then give him some of my taxpayer-paid government pension and tell him to move to Texas where they will allow him a chance for citizenship!! jajajajajajaj.....WAH WAH WAH......

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 18:17:

On several threads, you have diverted the topic away from the OP to your whining about how illegal immigrants are ruining your life. What the F*%K does your whining about paying taxes which benefit illegal immigrants in the US have to do with Colombia??? Your postings belong on www.redneckamericans.com, not www.poorbuthappy.com....your racist BS should have been deleted by the Moderators long agooooooooooooo.........=)

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 21:56:

save your weak personal attacks for some DA you loser racist. An again if you dont know the premise of the word redneck dont use it . Because you are running down all the people that work farms in your own country you bigot. Nobody cares about your inferiority complex about the US so haul A loser.

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 21:59:

No bigot your too dumb to get a drivers liscense in the US so you would be walking. An if you did all the name calling in texas somebody would just walk over an knock you the F%$k out for being a bigot.

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:01:

No sensible intelligent unbias person would resort to using PBS as a reference.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:20:

WAH WAH WAH......!!!!!!!!!!!! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:22:

Yup, i am a mexican-hating mexican.....IF! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:24:

Texans?? you so Baaaaaddddddddd....scared of you!!! hahaha! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:24:

exactly what I said another intelligent response from the bigot wha wha wha

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mcraig says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:26:

The bigot post threats for days like a tough guy ! Anyone that threaten people on the internet is a weak dork but in your case a weak dork bigot.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:26:

BabyHuey.......crybaby....whine, whine, whine..... Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:28:

go cry to your mamaaaaaaaaa...whoozzz your dadddy? Every illegal alien is your daddiieeeeee...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:29:

threats??? you just confirmed that you are delusional...you went to Colombia for dental work and returned with a lobotomy.....


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 29, 2006, 22:35:

Now here is the really funny part......i am probably more anti-illegal immigrant than you, but i dont blame other countries, or a nationality, because it is the USA who let it get the way it is!! and i dont whine about it!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 00:35:

Anyway, i have wasted enough time with you.....see ya, wouldnt want to be ya! =P

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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mcraig says on Jul 30, 2006, 09:01:

The eventual non partisan answer is insurance companies For an example: GWB while the governor of Texas made all health insurance companies doing business in the state cover uninsured children with HMO's at a lower cost premium. This is the answer to uninsured in this country. In texas the uninsured children are put in a pool of uninsured an the health insurance companies have to split them up an carry them at a lower premium. Kinda like with automobile insurance insurance in texas there are tonse of high risk drivers that have to be covered because you cant drive in texas without insurance. So the insurance companies put all there names in a pool an split them up an cover them without breaking any kind of charging practices.

The cost of this insurance for uninsured children in texas is around 20-25 dollars a month per child an then you have a 15 dollar copay or 20 dollar copay for dr appts , you have a prescription drug care policy where you pay a co pay for part of your prescriptions.

Do this for all 50 millino without any medical insruance an this will make the insurance companies force the drug companies to lower there charge for drugs , it will make doctors an hospital double an tripling charges stop. An eventually will lead to lower health care insurance cost because every start up insurance company will want the chance to get this business.

See this is how you cure the problem , you do not force otherrs to pay for you an or anyone else that way the goverment is not involved. I mean really we cant keep the money in SS acccount what the hell makes you think that turning over healthcare to the goverment would make the service better it would make it worse.

Bi partisan ! not available to non citizens , doesnt cost tax payers its the only way.

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mcraig says on Jul 30, 2006, 09:09:

Another non factual post by the bigot You run down americans all over this web page for just being Americans coming to Colombia. Then you post, I am going to sit here on my Colombian goverment pension an laugh at americans. Really , are you so dumb that you dont know that your colombian goverment pension is fully invested in the US stock market ??????? Just like China , French , british an on an on . I mean you dont think there is some mysterious latin american stock market that gurantees long term stabilty an proven profits an growth do you. Another reason why you bigotry an inferiority complex towards america an americans is a joke because you better hope our country keeps doing well or you will be sitting on you butt old an without anything to eat.

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tomtom33 says on Jul 30, 2006, 10:01:

The US stock market is far from stable. Just ask NASDAQ investors.

Your plan for health insurance has one huge hole. When doctors, hospitals, and drug companies are cut far enough, they will refuse to provide service. And I can hardly blame them. There is no free lunch.

I guess I don't understand this PBH bias against the rich. Harris' wealth has no place in a discussion of her coverage. And the people who are really rich don't need to impress anyone. It's the wannabes that are to be avoided.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 10:15:

Ummm..you really dont know how to read, do you? must be the public school system where you live, Baby Huey, or maybe poor genetics???

Clues for the Clueless:(umm...that is you, BTW)

1. I am American, born and raised in California, which, BTW is one of the other states in the US. I am not Colombian, but Mexican-American, and German-American.

2. My taxpayer supported government pension, which began this month, is from being in law enforcement for over 27 years in California. No Colombian tax monies involved. Only good old US taxpayer monies here....with a 3% cost of living adjustment each year.....And, excellent investments on my part have paid off. I am laughing all the way to the bank with taxpayer money.....maybe i will give some of it to the local illegals so they can move to your state....now, there is an ideaaaaaaaaaaa.....=)

3.Your tirades just keep rambling on incoherently. Do your parents know you are playing with their computer? i run down ignorant people who post stupid things on a public forum. After a little b-slapping, your posts about illegal immigrants now do not use "Mexican" and "illegal immigrants" interchangeably. Congratulations! You are capable of being educated. Moral of the Story: Not all illegal immigrants are Mexican, and Not all Mexicans are illegal immigrants. See how easy that was to learn, and to apply when posting your tirades on how some people are ruining your life financially??

4.You make alot of assumptions, which doesnt really suprise me considering your posts here on PBH, all of which make you look rather silly, unintelligent, and lame. Yes, i just hate Americans...you just have this inherent fear of Mexicans.....and i am the bigot? ...use a dictionary, if you have one, to find out what that word means...i know its easy for you to use since it only has 2 syllables, but please try......hahaha....moron.

But other than that, thanks for sharing! Come back again, ya'll!!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 10:33:

Who is the dumb one now........? "Really , are you so dumb that you dont know that your colombian goverment pension is fully invested in the US stock market ???????" mcraig

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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mcraig says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:32:

chavo inferiority complex leading to more statements of bigotry now towards mexicans by his own
choice. Funny how you keep saying mexican for illegal immigration you bigot they are only 65% of the ilegal immigration to america. So why do you keep using Mexicans for your one an only group. Because you are a simple minded bigot.

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mcraig says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:36:

Well when the american economy slows an your govt pension in colombia doesnt get its returns neccessary to pay your pension
then what will your bigoted self say! duuuhhhhhhhhhh or whhhhhhhhhhhha one of thes unintelligent comments you have posted lately.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:38:

no. because your intital post on the other thread showed your true inner self....prejudiced against Mexican...stating that mexicans are causing you to pay so much money (i think you quoted $1,200 per year??) to support them in Texas.....short term memory loss??? a mexican bigot towards other mexicans...doesnt that mean i hate myself??? your thought process is rather scrambled..... Now you are defending Mexicans?? what a joke..must have gotten too hot in the kitchen for ya, McFly.....you simpleton....hahahah...your posts are like the rantings of a lunatic.....with you, its like trying to talk sense to an intoxicated friend, just aint gonna happennnnnnnnn...


Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:46:

for the mentally challenged: its a benefit-defined pension.... but you probably dont know what that means anyway....besides, i dont even need my pension to live off of, my real estate investments in Silicon Valley do that for me by themselves.....not to mention my deferred comp funds.....and if the US gets tanked by Al-qaeda, Iran, or by divine interventions, i will just have to live off the profits of my two Colombian corporations......so, keep whining about supporting those illegals, and please work a little harder, ok??

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:48:

Time to run some errands! Chao, baby! Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:50:

Besides, if all else fails like you mention,i will move to your county in Texas and have you support me with your tax dollars!!..hahaha...

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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mcraig says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:50:

The US stock market is guranteed I just read some numbers the other day in a trade magazine showing that the US stock market over the past 150 years has had three great corrections ever. Saying that for the past 65 years if you would of invested a dollar in US treasuries or bonds your returns would be over 185%. There is a reason why goverments that provide pensions like , china, france, Britain, Colombia, an on an invest the majority of there money in our US backed securities because you are guranteed your return. The only way you would not get your return is if the USA cease to exist. China has bought up so much of americas debt an treasuries that they are the true reason our interest rates have not risen higher. Sorry, I can get alot more technical with you because international economics is what my degrees are in but I am hoping your are not an economist or accounted, So I can be as basic as possible.

Smaller countries like latin american countries or southeast Asia countries put nearly every dime they collect for pension tax into American securities because of the outcome it would cause if they didnt have the money when needed. An these countries cannot raise taxes on poverty.

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:54:

Degrees are cheap in Texas from what i read...any college grad qualifies to be a teacher....and my pension is a US pension...but i thought i had mentioned that about 3-4 times...must have missed that one, huh? A person could have a degree in physics and still not be the brightest bulb in the lot. That has been proven again and again...so dont hang your 10 gallon hat on that post.

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:58:

So i guess that means that as long as the US exists, my pension is secure....thats very enlightening from a person who has a degree in international ecomomics..will your Masters thesis be on this topic?..thanks for sharing!

Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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Miguel_Clavo says on Jul 30, 2006, 11:59:

Reallly, gotta run and organize the illegals here....=) Just my opinion...

Miguel_Clavo...Listo!! Libertad!!!...Colombia es pasión!

"F.A.R.C..S.U.C.K.S"

"I would rather die living life, than to live a dying life."........ Oh, and my PM is always ON. Great Bumper Sticker: "Home of the Free, Because of the Brave"

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mcraig says on Jul 30, 2006, 12:05:

look bigot 1. I dont care or never asked about your race or ethnic background thats only a question that a bigot asks. So save it bigot

2. An your pension is secured totally by the US stock market an the taxes of the middle class of americans in California. Now lets look at California bigot. California pays the third most taxes in the country , it is presently carries 16 billion in state debt because the democrats have rais