3 Million pesos no longer enough to live well in Bogota?

Gator says on Oct 2, 2006, 18:55:

Brian First define "live well." 3mil pesos (about $1.240 USD.) $3.000.000 pesos is about three times the minimum wage in Colombia. Should be doable in an estrato 4 neighborhood but probably no car and using public transportation. To be realistic I would double that amount.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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miamimike says on Oct 2, 2006, 22:13:

She's pulling your Leg Brian,,, I live for much, much less then that here in Miami and Miami isn't exactly your cheapest city in the USA,,,LOL and that includes my Car BTW

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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. says on Oct 3, 2006, 01:01:

I am going to give you a help I will talk in your lenguage lenguage (US dollars): the minimun wage is about 260 us dollars:
1) A house hold with with an income of 350 dollars per month may live in estrato 1.
2) A house hold with with an income of 500 dollars per month may live in estrato 2.
3) A house hold with with an income of 700 dollars per month may live in estrato 3.
4) A house hold with with an income of 1500 dollars per month may live in estrato 4.
5) A house hold with with an income of 2600 dollars per month may live in estrato 5.
6) A house hold with with an income of 4000 dollars per month may live in estrato 6.
7) A house hold with with an income of 7000 dollars per month may live in estrato 7.

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. says on Oct 3, 2006, 01:02:

I am sorry I am sory for the "with with", I was just coping and paste.

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panthdave says on Oct 3, 2006, 02:15:

MiamiMike Que Miami for 1240.00 per month..or Less How do you live for 1240.00 per month in Miami.. I need to know your secrets Miami Mike...

Maybe thats what I spent 10 years ago in Miami-Dade..Yes your correct this city is not cheap anymore its actually 54% overpriced per the indexes...

Also everybody has different spending styles..Clothes and Entertainment is a big factor..For Me I need to eat out and have entertainment or I will go crazy..

panthdave Miami

panthdave Miami

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miamimike says on Oct 3, 2006, 02:44:

Panthdave Not Too Difficult,,, My Condo and Car is payed for--payed Cash. I have NO consumer debt-NO credit card debt of any type. I am Single, NO Ninos and I don't live beyond my means which means I don't hit 5 star Restaurants, $50 music concerts ect..I watch where&when I buy and how I buy, important. I use coupons for Food purchases also use 'em in the Restaurants. I don't Smoke and rarely drink. I enjoy myself here, I like to Fish off our piers, bridges ect. I go swimming in the evening at North SHore Park by Surfside.This is the same Beach Bob Dole(ex senator) uses by the Sheraton Bal Harbor. HAHA His condo taxes are a lot more then mine-he doesn't have the Homestead Exemption and I do since my condo is my primary residence. Since I purchased my Condo 10 years for $17K, my real estate taxes are "Zero" since the 1st $25K of miami dade real estate taxes are forgiven(homestead exemption) and my taxes have been frozen at this level. At times I feel guilty! LOL I go to the Cultural Events here many of which are free or $10 to get in for the whole day. Same for the Film Fairs I attend hosted by Miami dade Community college. Sometimes I will attend a lecture depending on the speaker. I go to Bayside and listen to the Music, free of charge, and grab a meal in the food court. From time to I go Camping in Everglades National park. Its really not that hard, actually a game for me to beat the cost of living here in Miami. Expensive Clothes and Big name costly Entertainment are not priorities in my life so thats a lot of $$$ saved there. Many times I pick up my Clothes(all brand name , pendleton, london fog) by barter or on eBay for a huge savings. ....No South Beach for me, I like calle Ocho much better.It can be done,,,,,I agree with Rubiazo 100% on this one. A Ladyfriend who lives in Bogota related her cost of living for her and her daughter and its much much less then some of the figures I see posted and she sends her daughter to a private Bilingual School in North Bogota on top of it! I think most people want to live in a Central or South American Country to stretch their retirement Checks so I question some of these prices, especially after many trips there since 1995. Some must like to live high on the Hog is all I can say,,,,Each to his own,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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expatriate says on Oct 3, 2006, 06:50:

Brian858 Instead of renting out your house in California, sell it and buy it back in a few years for half price.

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Gator says on Oct 3, 2006, 09:13:

Rubio Math is one reason I changed majors from engineering. Should have been 7 and a half time the minimum wage.

These type of questions are almost impossible to answer with any degree of certainty-too many variables and individual preferences. In my experience most expats want to retain almost the same level of standards as their past home country. Most are unwilling to go "native"and live like an average Colombian.

"Brevior Sltare Cum Deformibus Mulieribus Est Vita!" .

"Credidi pretio parvo emere et magno vendere tibi in animo fuisse!" .

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miamimike says on Oct 3, 2006, 11:46:

Don Gringo, My Aunt WHo Raised Me After My Mom Died when I was five imparted some valueable economic lessons that have served me well in this life. One being, its not about how MUCH MONEY you make, its how much you SAVE and how you Invest it. I see many people here in Miami who are Maxxed out on Consumer Credit and close to filing Bankruptcy yet they are/were earning 6 figure+ salaries. I was out on the street as a 9 yr old pedaling papers earning my spending money, lugging those heavy papers on a Sled in the cold dark pennsylvania winters for .02 per paper you soon learn the value of hard work and a Buck(and how to hang onto them). This hopefully should also drive you to the attainment of an Education and finding a way to earn money in an easier way(legally)! LOL Most Teenagers today do NOT have a clue, their parents spoil their Kids rotten and they have NOT a clue about money, how to save and invest ect. When the parents buy them $200 designer sneakers, Designer Jordache Jeans, New Cell Phones ect you do them no favor as they don't appreciate it not having to earn the $$ to pay for these items. What a rude awakening they will soon have when turn of working age! Our younger generation is in Deep Doo Doo. I guess thats why I'm not keen on flipping these Women wads of cash, gifts, cell phones ect and doing nothing to earn it-they for the most part do not appreciate you any more for it, they only expect more and play you for it. Each to their own with their money,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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nine inch nails says on Oct 3, 2006, 14:41:

DON'T THINK IT CAN BE DONE IN MIA TODAY DUE TO REAL ESTATE COSTS Living in South Florida (SOFLA) and constantly following the real estate market you just can't buy a sound $17K condo. today near where Bob Dole vacations (Bal Harbour/Aventura ...) or any other place that I am aware of. In 1995 yes but today???? No way. That is prime real estate. North Bay Village too has really picked up value and it is a nice up and coming area. Even starter homes in Hialeah are going for $200K, small condos. maybe half.

Looking at the Florida Association of Realtor web-site for Aug. 2006 the average price of a Condo. in Miami-Dade Co. (MDC) is $250K. Even if you halve it for say a small 1 bedroom that still is $125K which is probably very conservative knowing how much RE costs down here. I'm not trying to bust on anyone, I'm just trying to better explain how expensive it is down here if purchasing today so people don't think they can live down here for so little money these days. Now maybe with a strong condo. bust prices will do down in 1-2 yrs. but I don't think it will ever go back to pre-boom prices.

OK, with $125K base value (very realistic in MDC) your Property taxes with $25K homestead exemp. included are still at least $2000/yr., $3000 before taxes and that's cheap compared to larger condos and single family homes. Now add in the mortgage (safe 6.5% fixed for 30 years) on the difference ($125K-$17K) and looking at around $682 after tax, $1000/mo. before tax. The other significant piece is property insurance which I estimate would be another $3K before taxes. Luckiliy if you don't have a mortgage you do not have to pay insurance which has tripled in the coastal areas here in the last 6 months. Condo. HOAs may still require though. Oh yeah add in property maint./condo. fees: $300/mo. extra net ($500 gross) income needed if you figure prop. insur. is already included in the condo. maint. fee. Condo. maint. fees can get incredibly high. New $.4/SF, used easily double.

So you add it all up:

Property taxes: $3,000/yr. in income needed
Insurance: $3,000/yr. " "
Mortgage: $12,000/yr. " "
Maintenance: $6,000/yr. " "

Total: $24,000

That's $24K in gross income needed just for a roof over your head in SOFLA! This is why all the recent condo. flippers are going mad. They can't rent to cover all their expenses.

All the other pointers for living affordably down here are excellent excellent and very much needed with increased fuel and insurance costs.

Now how long can you live off $24K in beautiful Colombia?

Cheers!

Ragman Dave

"They know nothing, they know nothing." J. Cramer

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nine inch nails says on Oct 3, 2006, 14:53:

FLORIDA HOMESTEAD Wanted to explain that the Homestead exemption is awesome for residents who purchased here before the RE run up. Not only do you get a $25K discount on taxes but most importantly it caps your property tax increase at not more than 3% per year even if valuations are much higher. This only works on your primary residence.

So that $17K condo. purchased in 1995 even if it values at $125K in todays market cannot be taxed at higher than $23K doing the math (assumes a 3% increase every year since 1995). (1.03)^10.

However if you are buying today your tax rate is set more or less on the purchase price so you get shafted. Big big problme in FL and the politicians say they will try and make relief but do I really believe they will?

Wish I could move to CO today.

Ragman Dave
West Palm Beach

"They know nothing, they know nothing." J. Cramer

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DanielPaisa says on Oct 3, 2006, 14:54:

isn't this about bogota???

more than half the population in bogota lives with about 500k pesos/month on average, so i don't think you need that much

Minimun wage in colombia is about 420k pesos, those guys really make it with nothing

My point is: you can live in bogota wit almost any income... you can live with 500k month or with 10 mill month and you can spend them all


inflation rate in colombia and in bogota is low, less than 6% a year, so, if you have been increasing the money you send in something more than this rate, she's just using you

3 million pesos is more than what 90% colombian make... maybe she wants to live a strato 6 life payed by you

I live wit my mom in medellin, she makes about 5 mill and we save a lot, pay private univ, she travels a lot and we have a great living standard. 3 million pesos in bogota buy less than 3 here in medellin, but still i think it's enough to live strato 4 or 5 in bogota

Daniel, el Paisa

Daniel, el Paisa

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 3, 2006, 15:09:

Brian As you can tell, people are all over the map on what it costs to live in BOG. You COULD easily live on 3 million pesos a month in Bogota. Whether that meets your family's expectations of lifestyle remains to be seen. Obviously, lots of Colombians live very happy lives on less.

Don't get any illusions that you'll be living a life of extreme luxury on $1,200 a month, though, especially if you have kids who will be in school or wish to travel by air a lot.

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miamimike says on Oct 3, 2006, 15:49:

AMTICO Your figures are off a little Hialeah starter homes are minimally $325,000. The Cheapest Condo you will find there is $150K. The Cheapest condo in my area is probably the same.My taxes are Zero, nada as the the value for tax purposes is listed as 23K for 2006(3% annual cap), so with the Florida Homestead Exemption which exempts the first $25K of valuation, I actually have a Negative tax balance of $2. All Floridians are entitled to this Homestead exemption after living in the home for one year and applying for the exemption, its not automatic. Thats why I pay no property tax. The next buyer won't be so lucky, automatically his/her tax liability starts from the latest selling price, as mine did in 1995 at $17K. My Condo is insured thru the master bldg policy as all florida condos are requiered by law to carry. I pay my part for my Insurance thru my maintenence at $155 monthly(includes my cable(basic) and unlimited hot water is included in this $155 also. My seperate contents and Liability insurance is $250 yearly. Again, I have NO mortage, these figures you list may be OK for some condo owners but are not accurate for me. We have some Retirees in our Building living soley on their SS Checks but they really cut the spending,more then I am willing to do.. It would be more difficult to duplicate what I do today but not impossible. BTW, Florida Retirees who are Veterans(income under $20K yearly) are entitled to an extra $25K in Homestead Exemption bumping the total up $50K. I sure feel I could live on the same(or less) In Bogota as I do in Miami. BTW, I know North Shore Village real estate is super pricey but my point is, for a 3.5 mile Bicycle (15 minutes) I enjoy the same Nice White Sandy beach without the high costs of actually living exactly right there. Better for them to pay the costs! LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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Mr. Hollywood says on Oct 3, 2006, 16:00:

But MiamiMike, I think you'd have trouble finding an acceptable place to live in Bogota for the same price as your $155 monthly nut on the Florida place.

You're very fortunate to have made the smart decisions you did and to be living so simply.

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miamimike says on Oct 3, 2006, 16:09:

Hollywood, I am sure I could find a Rental for $300 Monthly 1 BR, 1 bath condo. I am not looking for a large Strata 6 --3 BR, 3 bath Condo. I am single and plan on staying that way for the foreseeable future. I never said BTW that I expected to rent a similiar condo for $155 monthly. The OP post was that I stated I live for less the $1240 monthly in Miami and would live for less then that in Bogota. I sure don't plan on subsidizing some Woman 100% without any Monetary contributions from her. I never did that here and for sure won't in Colombia, Mexico wherever. No Way Jose LOL

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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NATYPAISA says on Oct 3, 2006, 20:41:

WHY ALWAYS HAPPEN THE SAME ??? I can not understand,let me tell you something....in Colombia with 3.000.000 you can live like a REY o REINA....QUEEN or KING, live there is not so expensive, ...PLEASE JUST LOOK FOR THE US DOLLAR TRM , it will give you an idea...in Colombia with this ammount you will have a good life...a really good life....

PS: SORRY ABOUT MY ENGLISH

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NATYPAISA says on Oct 3, 2006, 20:49:

BRIAN Hi

I agree with you, but I think you need to look for more information about ESTRATOS....we do not have all those ESTRATOS in Colombia...do you know the MAS ALTO ESTRATO in Colombia...???

Bye

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utopiacowboy says on Oct 3, 2006, 21:45:

Your English is good, Natypaisa. Better than the Spanish of most of us gringos. Rock on, dude!

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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. says on Oct 4, 2006, 01:08:

I guess In accord to DonGringo analysis, please every one multiply my figures by 0.655, then I think they will be fine.

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miamimike says on Oct 4, 2006, 01:58:

Rubiazo I think what happens to Many And Colombians of Professional level tell me this also,(so its not some American's musing or assussuming about this issue) when say an American gets into a Strata 6 House or Condo,they are expected to act a certain way also; project a certain GQ Image. That means entertaining frequently, lots of money spent on large quantities of pricey Meats, Wines, ect. When Birthdays, Christmas rolls around it means pricey gifts, clothing, jewelry from Name Brand stores. Got to have the "Label" LOL . When they go out to eat as a group, it has to be strata 6 type restaurant--like 4-5 star and probably many times the American is stuck with the tab. When you insert yourself into Strata 6, be prepared to pay the Bill. You have an "Image" (LOL) to maintain whether you care to or not, especially if you have a Colombian wife who fancies this Strata 6 Lifestyle. Contrast that many Americans who are Millionaires yet attempt to project a Strata Two type lifestyle so people won't know they have money. They like to maintain their secret they have money so family and friends don't swarm around asking for a handout.LOL If you are single and live in Strata 6 you have more manuveuring room on how you use your money but if you have someone(esposa/novia) looking over your shoulder, no way Jose,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Oct 4, 2006, 02:11:

Don Gringo,Who is sending This amount of Money Monthly from the US to Colombia??? What amount exactly is it? I've missed something on this thread,,,

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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. says on Oct 4, 2006, 05:36:

Well... there is always a first time to say that I agree with dongringo.

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miamimike says on Oct 4, 2006, 05:49:

DG, you handily prove my point As far as what it would cost me to live in Bogota. $408 monthly and you have a larger Apt then what I would be looking for. I'm looking for 1br/1bath, 2Br/1ba maximum, 50-60 M2 maximum. How much for an apt this size in your barrio? One thing I disagree with you on is the Size of the Hammer I would use on that guy's head for all that Money he remits monthly to the Novia; I would use a Stake Maul(big sledge hammer)heh heh

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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. says on Oct 4, 2006, 06:03:

The thing is.. I do not want to be an annoying person, and I want to say that I do not know your wonderful wife and what I am going to say is with all my respects. It is not the first case I have heard about a gringo who wants to come to Colombia with his Colombian wife for good. In every single case, the lady expects to live as a rich person, the humbleness does not exist, even if you are middle class in the usa, they expect to show off something that they have never been in their life..being rich. One of the social problems in Colombia is that Colombian people like squeezing their budgets to show off something that they are not, they prefer to have the cash flow down while living in estrato 5 than having a nice quite life while living in estarto 3 with the same monthly wage. I prefer the second option, because I do not give a s…t about what people say ot think about me.

Some time I sit down to have a cup of coffee, then I think..if Colombian people do not have money, how is it possible for them to expend so much money in rumbas and parties every weekend, buying expensive clothes (in the case of women) and having a girlfriend (in the case of men). I know a couple of friends with a monthly wage of $340 dollars aprox per capita, they live in Cedro Golf in a rented flat, they do a couple of parties per month, have girlfriends in Cedro golf, and they go out some times. They are always complaining about the situation of the country and are thinking to emigrate to somewhere else. Now, it would be better off for them to move down to estrato 3 or 2 and live a great life with that monthly wage put together! But socially in Colombia they would be taken as a losers, and they really care about it!. I am quite sure that if they got £500 dollars more per month, they would squize so much more the budget to jump to estrato 5.

In Colombia people may live very nice with so few money, I can have a nice life in estrato 3 plus my own car with $1,000,000 pesos per month, and so much better life living with that money in estrato 2.


Sorry about my english! Please appreciate my effort.

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miamimike says on Oct 4, 2006, 06:17:

You Hit the Nail On the Head Juan ; I agree with you 100% In many visits I have seen that type of Financial misbehavior--Living way way beyond their means, what their salary permits and later, searching for money to pay the Basics(food, luz ect) All to make the Impression for the neighbors or the Wife.Sad

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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elmodefoque says on Oct 4, 2006, 06:19:

dongringo, thanks for breaking that down, i'm dying to move down there but need to get some idea of how much money is actually needed and you broke it down quite nice. one thing, in my monthy budget i need to add 200 mil for hookers.
one question, why do you rent and not just buy an apt? what are the pros and cons.

ASK NOT WHAT THE PUSSY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR THAT PUSSY!!!!!!!!!! CAT LOVER

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. says on Oct 4, 2006, 06:29:

elmodefoque all is about saving, you can have 10 hokers at Calle 20 with Cra 15 in Bogota per moth with 200.000 colombian pesos, or have one at Clle 98 with Cra 15 at bogota with the same money. That is called "good use of money"

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adrimm says on Oct 4, 2006, 11:31:

JuanP " One of the social problems in Colombia is that Colombian people like squeezing their budgets to show off something that they are not"

I agree with you, it is unfortunate but largely quite true. That said, I think it is changing (albeit *very* slowly) from the top down.

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adrimm says on Oct 4, 2006, 11:43:

DG Your comments on the real estate market are interesting...

One of the things I've been considering down the road is purchasing a studio or one-bedroom in Bogota. With my mother advancing in age she may eventually become a Colombia-bound snowbird and getting our own place would be easier for everyone.

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adrimm says on Oct 4, 2006, 23:16:

Chapinero is more what I had in mind - lots of the fam lives in the general area...and i like it better than Niza - where other family members live. I saw some smaller units in Chapinero for 120K (on metrocuadrado earlier today), even a few below that. It's all a dream tho, I just bought property at home and I'm tapped out. But in 5 years...

Studio or 1 bedroom would be a roomate prevention. If it was larger there would constantly be "visitors" from out of town (nothing like mooching off tia gringa).

One thing I noticed is that simple contemporary decor is starting to show up a bit more. Makes me happy, all that froo-froo spindle furniture is crap.

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adrimm says on Oct 4, 2006, 23:26:

I can't say about costs - I've only just started browsing, but she'd definitely want to be east of Caracas. Of course since she'd be the legal owner - I don't have a cedula - she will get final word.

Ahhh well won't be happening anytime soon, I'm not really going to bother much thinking about it.. (well unless I'm in Bogota).

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gabo4ever says on Oct 5, 2006, 02:24:

Miamimike... you mentioned "searching for money to pay the Basics(food, luz ect) All to make the Impression for the neighbors or the Wife.Sad"

I agree with you, but what I cant understand is how someone would need to Impress their WIFE in terms of buying or living a lifestyle that they CANNOT afford. Doesnt that make them wonder if their with the wrong person.

Your supposedly married 'in sickness and in health, for richer or POORER'.

Surely she should be able to understand the husbands Financial limits and support him apropiately. I.e. cutting down in spenditure as necesary??

Y por si se atreven: Watsamatamaracuya?

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miamimike says on Oct 5, 2006, 03:13:

gabo4ever, Its a Mystery to me also I agree with you, but what I cant understand is how someone would need to Impress their WIFE in terms of buying or living a lifestyle that they CANNOT afford. Doesnt that make them wonder if their with the wrong person"
=====================================================================Gabo it seems to me a person would suffer from an Insecurty Complex of sorts to feel he needs to buy his wife a lifestyle like this, WHETHER he can afford it or not,,,,,Again. I ask would they do that here in the USA, UK or Canada? If not, why would they do it Colombia?

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Oct 5, 2006, 03:37:

DG ,Rubiazo IF you live with 1 million to two a month!! that is a lot for a single person in Bogota, but what happened when you got kids? 2 or 3 kids 2 million a month is the cutting line and not even living in strato 4, school uniforms and books are not cheap, school payments, a good school can cost you to 500.000 cop a term. everyday transport , money for snacks, and so on.


DG next time you pay the nachos ;)

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pedro says on Oct 5, 2006, 04:21:

A lot of you guys failed to even read his post carefully and understand the situation.

He is not talking about sending money down to some girl in Bogota. They are both living in California and they are both discussing a plan to move down to Colombia.

For chrissakes, this is a common situation and almost every couple who makes the move would have the same doubts.

I am not sure that 3 million is enough if you want first class healthcare, trips back to the USA, want to have children and give them a good lifestyle etc.

It all depends if you have a well stocked fund that you can dip into for "one off" things. If not, you are REALLY gonna have to tighten your belts if the rental house back home is vacant for a couple of months. So is it 3 million for just the day to day, or 3 million full stop?

que nota!

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Brian858 says on Oct 5, 2006, 21:35:

3 Million would be the cusion. Ofcourse we could work if needed in Bogota. The problem is we earn about 20 Million pesos per month combined here. But after you pay all your taxes, housing, food, transportation etc....Not much left. It seems like we would both have to always work here just to stay above water.

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