1 in 3 venezolanos want to leave, thanks to Hugo

panthdave says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:02:

On top of it the a new drug report just came out that Colombia is using Venezuela to export drugs to Dominca and Haiti..

Venezuela is doing amazing...LOLOLjJAJAJAJAJ

panthdave Miami

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Miguel says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:15:

Yeah panthdave, that "drug report" was pretty damning. I also recently read a story about many Venezuelan oil workers leaving the country to work the oil fields in British Columbia to get away from Hugo's iron fist.

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scotty says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:19:

venezuela is gonna be another cuba with free medical and dental and nothing else including no freedom. All the smart people will leave and move elsewhere and there will sit Hugo and his military thugs.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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panthdave says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:28:

and you forgot all the innocent civilians stuck in the country...

panthdave Miami

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Miguel says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:39:

"and there will sit Hugo and his military thugs."

And a shitload of oil.

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scotty says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:53:

maybe a shit load of oil. what a shame that the only thing you have to offer the world is oil and you did nothing to achieve that oil, he didnt discover it, or drill for it or refin it, he just shows up and takes over. he and his buddies will be rich and the poor who supported him will stll be poor, but they will have free dental.
yea you are right panthdave, the ones with the means (money) will get out of there and go to Europe or US and the poor will be stuck there with the dictator.

Get Rhythm, when you got the blues. Johnny Cash

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podborski says on Jul 15, 2007, 07:54:

true Miguel, but Saudi Arabia has a shitload of oil and it still has not much else, including influence, IMHO.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 15, 2007, 08:00:

Here is an article that discusses the recent poll in English. Looks like more details are available if you click on the .pdf file in the sidebar.

http://www.miamiherald.com/579/story/170406.html

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Miguel says on Jul 15, 2007, 08:02:

Right podborski, about Saudi Arabia. I could not agree more.

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Robert Jorge says on Jul 15, 2007, 08:40:

Pod, you said "but this time they can't blame it on a trade embargo by Uncle Sam.

Wonder what the excuse will be?" You should know by now, everything is the US's fault. No matter what, anything in the world can be spun to be the fault of, or caused by, the US. It's unbelievable.

Venezuela will have a significant "brain drain" over time. It is already happening. There is a huge population of Venezuelans in Miami, Fort Lauderdale, and south Florida in general.

BEWARE of gold diggers.

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 15, 2007, 08:45:

RobertJorge, And Canader! The Wall Street Journal ran a front page story in the last month or so about Venezuelans leaving to work in the Alberta, Canada oil patch. They're in high demand, esp. if they have experience with Venezuela's heavy, sour crude oil.

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podborski says on Jul 15, 2007, 08:45:

I know RJ, it will probably be some really weak version of the 'self fulfilling prophecy' argument, meaning they will say the fact that the USA criticized their policies so much was the cause of their failure.

I will never cease to be amazed at the crap people will believe.

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bueno_pues says on Jul 15, 2007, 09:13:

Es nosotros que estan haciendo Sr. Hugo rico. A el damos su dinero y luego nos quejamos. Creo que Sr. Hugo esta riendo sobre los bobos gringos.

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panthdave says on Jul 15, 2007, 13:58:

Or 2 out of 3 have no choice and have to stay and keep there mouths shut..

panthdave Miami

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 15, 2007, 14:10:

panthdave has it on the money!! Things are beyond what you can imagine at the moment. Families are even being torn apart. The chavistas wont talk to those in the family that are not. Imagine people that are willing to allow the government to interfere in family. The ones in the family that say they are chavistas are worried about been seen with members of the family that are know to be against. Why they are worried they will lose their job if their loyalty to chavez is questioned. There are plenty of so called spies working everywhere especially if you work in any field that gets government money. If you signed against Chavez forget ever getting any job that has government funding...you wont even be able to enter a PDVS compound. They will look up your info see you voted no and tell you you can't enter. The real issue is this does have the possibility of spilling into other regions like Colombia. The oil money available can do a lot of things. If you want to see how scary this is read the proposed constitution for Venezuela that was leaked...I have a copy but not sure how to post it.

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 15, 2007, 14:55:

Cassini.. since this is a blog about Colombia I won't go into a deep discussion of this. Bush..a typical response form anyone that disagrees with a opinion and has no supporting argument. I have no affiliation to any party..wish we really had a third party viable option in th US. Funny how the entire chavez movement started by the dream of improving the conditions of the poor...very noble and good concept. But lets see what the reality is. Based on chavez own speaches....No one should have cell phones, women should not dye their hair or wear makeup or wear tight jeans because this is learned form US culture. Actually I see you are from France...didn't many of the fashion trends that move around the globe originate from your soil...actually the US probably gets most fashion trends form your homeland than we have created.

Lets see what else is the you should anticipate under the new reforms....You should only require 2 shirts to be happy ..one you wear one you wash? all taking from speaches chavez has made publicly. So the real answer is everyone should be happy with less..maybe a loin clothe some day that way no one has a incentive to work or exceed.. But the inner circle of supporters who have never made a honest days living will be drive hummers and travel the globe to show everyone what is good for the majority of venezuela is not good enough for them.

Again this is a Colombian blog so I will comment no further on this...just my opinion

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vladimiro says on Jul 15, 2007, 15:05:

I read that 70% of Mexicans would like to leave Mexico, and I'm sure a large percentage of Colombians would prefer to leave Colombia even with pro-US Uribe and all( imagine that:) Even if true (and you have to doubt any polls on Venezuela) 30% of Venezuelans wanting to leave probably is better than average for a third world country. Oil prices are high, and the Venezuelan economy is growing like crazy, but ofcaorse Venezuela is still a third world country. Btw, Chavez approval rating is 71%, what's Bush's approval rating running these days:)

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panthdave says on Jul 15, 2007, 15:38:

Or there sneaking across with few kilos of cocaine because Chavez allows cocaine to be shipped or flown from his ports to Dominca and Haiti...
The only thing that was going for Chavez was Copa America was there...or the Colombians sneaking across are Socialist Freaks who want to live under is rule...

Speaking of the Devil they just showed on CNN...the new drug route..

You know I knew there had to be a reason why Chavez stopped DEA Flights over his country.

panthdave Miami

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critter says on Jul 15, 2007, 15:42:

Cassini is right! Newbie you are misinformed about Venezuela. I was just there in April, lived on Margarita Island in 2006, and am going back next month to El Tigre for a teaching assignment I have down there. Yes, families do have "discusiones" over the rogue politics that are going on in their "patria amada", but are still very close. Yes, there still exists a great deal of poverty, crime, inflation, devalued bolo (the black market exchange right now is 4.500 al dolar) and "propina"-corruption going around...but they are very happy living in their own stomping-grounds...those who leave do so involuntarily for one reason or another...yes, they are vain like most latinos, but not materialistas so they would rather stay where they are...and yes, there is a great deal propaganda coming from our government to keep us afraid of going down there and spending our dollars... No Joda...

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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panthdave says on Jul 15, 2007, 15:53:

Funny though the educated ones are leaving..actually there all gone...I know of many here in Miami now and they transferred all there funds to the United States..Proof we hired a girl for the Marketing position with a Masters Degree from University of Miami in which the whole family left Venezuela and the mother went to Boston a lawyer and her father is in shipping.. They all left and they were loaded her father paid straight cash for her Masters at University of Miami.. She told me two years ago they decided to leave because Chavez is to unstable and they could lose everything and told me the wealthy ones are already making there exit plans..or even middle class families were trying to exit..

Venezuela is not dangerous and I have no problems going I actually want to go but Tourism has nothing to do with living conditions and living under socialist rule for the civilians..

I just don't agree to Socialism or Communism...Will be a downfall for Venezuela they already have Brazil a superpower in S.America on there bad side..

panthdave Miami

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critter says on Jul 15, 2007, 16:02:

Para que sepan, Chavez has lost popularity since opting not to renew RCTV. His approval rating was at 59% in November of '06, but has since plundered to a paltry 39%..and his unlimited terms as president over there has about as much a chance of being passed as the immigration "amnesty" bill over here in gringolandia


http://www.miamiherald.com/579/story/170406.html

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 15, 2007, 16:20:

Critter I have no fear to go to Venezuela. I go frequently. actually I have spent way more time there than in Colombia but I love both. Although I am very careful in Caracas. The entire situation really has never affected me personally as you said the black market rate has made it very cheap place to go. I have been to more places than I can list here in Venezuela and still love it. Where else can you drive 180 KPH on the autopista and pay the cop $5 and drive away? Yes Venezuelans are extremely proud of being Venezuelan thats why so many actually feel devastated about the situation. Many would have never thought previously of leaving. What I can tell you all of my non chavista friends have in common. Concern for the future of their children. Having the ability to decide what, where and when their children learn. My best friend said even though his kid is in a private school there is a push for control of what is taught by the government and that concerns him greatly. He wants his kids to be able to have a good job someday based on their own drive to succeed.

Try to rent a apartment at the moment in Caracas in a good area. A small one and I do mean small will run 3 million b's IF you can find someone that will rent to you. And at the official excahnge rate that $2000 per month. Why? The risk of having it rented and then the government deciding you should not own more than one apartment or house. Many people are only renting to close friends or want a rally high amount to cover the potential risk. I am probably going to be working in CCS for a month or more soon. El tigre is really a nice place..I am jealous have a great time!!

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critter says on Jul 15, 2007, 17:10:

Newbie, you are correct! Most families are worried about their children. That's why they are careful not to become too vocal as so-called "golpistas" (aka coup plotters). And believe it or not, there are as many blind Chavistas (bleeding rojo all over the place) as we are all led to think...some do it to get a job (40% of all income comes from government employment) or keep their job...they all are very cognizant of the fact (especially the 20 thousand oil workers who decided to strike 5 years ago) that once your name is put on the black list, "ESTAS JODIDO!!!" That, and confiscated unused farmland and property, are what has provoked venezolanos to involuntary head for the swamps lands in the "flowered state" It is also common knowledge that there is a great deal of internal back-biting going on right now in the revolutionary party...You can definitely count on a better showing of middle and upper class citizens at the next election. Chavez won by a landslide last time with votes from the extremely poor population, which is the majority...it didn't hurt either that he gave out generous x-mas bonuses in october last year to government employees...and had truckloads of free beer being passed out to the masses near the polls...So, unless Chavez sticks to his word, and eliminates poverty completely in the next four years, it is not likely he'll make it passed the next election, if done fairly (I know that many have reservations about the legitimacy of the last election...but the opposition party certainly didn't help matters by withdrawing from the election...kinda like the Sunnis in Iraq (lucky for them..they still had a handful of government positions still reserved for them). And thanks...I'm certainly looking forward to getting down there...my housing (3-h,2-b) is free by the way...you're right, though very expensive en la capital

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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bueno_pues says on Jul 15, 2007, 17:46:

Mas gente del mundo odio los gringos y su presidente Bush que Chavez y los venezuelanos.

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critter says on Jul 15, 2007, 18:07:

bueno_pues, segun tus comentarios feisimos se nota que a ti todos los gringos te producimos asco ...pero eso no quiere decir que el resto del mundo guarda rencores contra nosotros.... Yo he viajado por todos lados del mundo y siempre me cogen carino donde sea...solo no les cae la politica de nuestro gobierno...y estoy con ellos....pero tu, que tienes??? por que tan odiosa??? en la foto te ves lindisima y me imagino que tienes muchos pretendientes...no seas tan pesimista...o prefieres quedar mal con todos?? Que ladilla!!!

otro bobo gringo pededor que siempre esta dando papaya...QUE VA!!!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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durito says on Jul 15, 2007, 18:14:

1/3 is 33%. Pretty low, although certainly similar to George Bush´s appoval rating in the US.

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Conchale Vale!! says on Jul 15, 2007, 18:30:

critter..excellent situation you have there. What do you teach? how long will you be there? I am sure if you have lived there before you know all the great places to go..but if not drop me a note and I can give you some ideas. The drive to Merida and the scenery is incredible. If you scuba dive Mochima is not bad...not the greatest but there are a lot of dolphins and you see a lot of morays ..from a distance of course. If you go to pto la cruz I would recommend a pizza place in front of maremare hotel across from the carribe mall. Bar none it is the best in the world....the first one upstairs. There used to be 2 in the same building I have not been to pto la cruz in the last year. A great place to watch all the harleys go by on a friday or saturday night setting off the car alarms.

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bueno_pues says on Jul 15, 2007, 18:41:

Yo digo siempre "Muerte para los gringos!"

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critter says on Jul 15, 2007, 18:49:

newbie, I'll be teaching English Composition/Literature, Computer Technology, and Russian down there...I have been teaching Spanish and Computers here in Detroit, MI the past several months... I have a 2-year contract with a salary comparable to US standards (and paid in dollars in my account here in the states)...yes, I do consider myself blessed and highly-favored. Actually, I would appreciate any insight from you because I do want to become familiar with the entire country ( I plan on writing a High School Spanish Textbook, filled with Christian principles, while down there...crazy how 95% of all latinos are Christians of some sort, yet all Spanish textbooks available in the US are are secular-based and God or Jesus are never mentioned...thanks to political agendas driven by the ACLU).

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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critter says on Jul 15, 2007, 18:59:

Oye sardinita blanquita,

Por que quieres matarnos a los gringos??? Ya con la violencia pues! JAJAJAJA que te pasa??? te enamoraste de un gringo y te dejaste por una india negra o que? tranquila pues...tu no tienes por que decirnos cosas asi...te pasas!!!

"Spending eternity in a bad place is a long time!"

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vladimiro says on Jul 15, 2007, 20:06:

"Para que sepan, Chavez has lost popularity since opting not to renew RCTV. "

Actually, RCTV is still on the air in Venezuela on Direct TV and had never been shut down to begin with. See for yourself on You tube below. The "closing" of RCTV which according to US dominated media was the end of democracy simply refered to its little segment of the radio-electric spectrum that it got absolutely free for decades, courtesy the Venezuelan government.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i93KxzVb4g&eurl=http://www.oilwars.blo...

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Jul 15, 2007, 20:25:

Free electro-magnetic spectrum for private TV and radio broadcasters is hardly unique to Venezuela. Many governments gave it away decades ago (and sometimes still do) because they couldn't/can't foresee the commercial possibilities

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miamimike says on Jul 15, 2007, 22:39:

Some facts on Chavez: http://www.guardian.co.uk/venezuela/story/0,,2087738,00.html

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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miamimike says on Jul 15, 2007, 22:41:

"Washington's outriders characterise the decision as an affront to freedom of speech, yet the facts speak in louder tones. Over 80% of Venezuelan television and radio outlets are privately owned; this excludes a number of cable and satellite television networks that are widely available. Of this 80%, significant sections are owned by corporate groups. According to a recent New York Times editorial, this has led to a situation in which "even the best news outlets tend to be openly ideological...so the owners' views can permeate reporting".


Article continues

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Almost all Venezuelan newspapers remain in private hands. The press is free to report, and express opinions, without government interference. Most do so with considerable brio on a daily basis. No media outlet has encountered licensing problems for the expression of political views. No journalist has been imprisoned or punished for report or comment.
In RCTV's case, the broadcaster failed to meet basic public-interest standards. The criterion for this assessment is similar to that used by the US Federal Communications Commission. RCTV will be free to broadcast via cable and satellite, which are available across the country.

In the UK, if Channel 4 aided an attempted coup against the government that resulted in civil unrest and even death, would anyone be supporting the renewal of its licence? RCTV has lost its licence because its wealthy owners slanted news coverage to provide support to the April 2002 coup against Chávez and the elected government. This will not be news to those who gathered in parliament last week to view John Pilger's excellent documentary The War on Democracy, which shows footage of RCTV involvement.

As the coup failed and Venezuelans questioned Chávez's "resignation", RCTV prohibited correspondents from airing these developments."

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." -- Feb. 28, 2008 --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C.

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