Irritated!!!!

Sr Tertius says on Apr 9, 2005, 15:28:

I was going to say "bureaucracy" But things have improved a bit lately. I'd have to say the annoying Uribe fans that keep asking me what do I have against their idol. Oh, wait, wrong forum...

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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adrimm says on Apr 9, 2005, 15:35:

Where to begin... 1) The importance of appearances
2) Being called Gringa
3) The driving habits
4) The look of dissapointment when I have to turn down a second helping of delicious food (becuase I'm already so stuffed)
5) The never-ending assumption that I live in the land of snow and ice

What about you Desi?

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 9, 2005, 15:38:

There are a few things that kind of get to me after a while but they're my own fault and I would never hold them against Colombia and Colombians. After having lived with my monolingual wife for a year, I am much more used to thinking and speaking Spanish than I used to be but having to communicate in Spanish 24x7 used to get to me. I'd start watching crappy American sitcoms on TV just so I could hear some English. Not knowing where you are a lot of the time and having to follow instructions (even helpful ones) can get to you as well. I like to know where I am and what I am doing so being in that kind of "dependent" role is not one I like.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 9, 2005, 15:46:

I have a long list too haha, I really love being there and my list for Sweden is even longer...
1. dealing with DAS, what a pain. This goes under the category of "bureacracy", thank you tertius for inaugurating my thread). Every time I visit the local DAS in Cali I'm met with some jerk with a bare chest leering at me and telling me that I shouldn't have married that "hijo de papi" since there are so many "real men" around. Well, I guess it'll be different this time since I'm getting older too...bah.
2. The assumption that I have a lot of money and an easy life because I live in Europe. Nobody knows the troubles I've seen....
3. Lack of personal sphere and space. I feel a little crowded most of the time. This happens at the beginning of my stay. I get used to it soon and then it doesn't bother me any more.
4. The limitation on personal freedom, to go out and be about at any hour of the day or night without having a "bodyguard" or a local keeping me out of the harm's way.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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adrimm says on Apr 9, 2005, 15:57:

space Oh my god, I had made myself forget that one. The crowding, the density of people, the closeness (like it or not) of sooo many people, the neverending touchy and huginess.

My mother's admonishments: it's family, they just do it becuase they love you, of course they're entitled to know every detail of your life. "They won't care, it's family".

This huge group of aquaintances who happen to be related to me, and therefore feel quite comfortable about wanting to know every detail of my life. ...and I'm sorry but a 30 second hug DOES mean just as much to me as 5 minute hug.

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 9, 2005, 15:59:

Driving? No way! Adrimm: I learned to drive in Bogotá, and probably because I'm such a stickler for complying with rules (I've never bribed a policeman!), I used to be awfully aggravated driving there. Then I moved to the US (ohhhh... the list of driving aggravations here is unending...) Now I miss driving in Bogota SO MUCH! The last time I went there I was in paradise driving my mother's old crappy fiat uno through Cra. 5 and Circunvalar... I even played the local game of predicting when the bus is going to cut into your lane! I had so much fun!

I wonder if others from Bogotá had the same experience? My mother says I'm crazy.

"El que a hierro mata..."

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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Dan says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:00:

let's see here. I would have to say:
1. people thinking I have a lot of money just because I'm from the US.
2. people just asking for money (see number 1)
3. standing in line, next thing I know, the person behind me is standing beside me, and then soon in front of me or people just cut right in front of someone without realizing that there were others waiting before them. (Only happened a couple times).

there's other, but I'm not sure at the moment.

God Bless America!

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adrimm says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:06:

Children This is a little less broad, but I also get extremely irritated by parents who let their children run wild. We know a couple who have a four-year old who can break glass with the high pitch shrillness of his screams (yes scream - I've conculded that the kid cannot yell). And what does he do? Run as fast as he can in circles around the house (from kitchen to dining to living room) screaming so loudly we cannot talk. Each visit I am made to pause at least 10-15 times becuase of said screaming child. I could almost suspect that there is something wrong with him. Mami and Papi just smile... the children have a playroom and backyard why not make them play there or make them behave????

Is this related-to most kids not having a separate play-space at home in Colombia?

It's more a personal nitpick but drives me insane.

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adrimm says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:09:

Sr. Tertius Guess it's all relative to where one comes from. My homecity has very orderly traffic (if a little slow). My frustration with Colombian driving comes from being involved in 2 car accidents in 2 months consecutively onmy last visit (One in Bogota involving a buseta hitting our car and one on the Chicamocha canyon).

Added to this is the # of people who seem to drive without insurance.

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:16:

yes, the children at a birthday party when it's time to break the piñata..and the mothers stand right under the piñata with a plastic bag to catch most of the loot for their kids...

The children in Colombia are a treasure as everywhere else but unfortunately there are so many parents that don't have an idea how to be parents, that it doesn't hurt the kids to say "No" to them. Most kids love to know the limits for their expansiveness, it just creates a sense of security and safety for them.

Another thing that I found irritaing was the "what will people think about you" mentality. I always feel more restricted and under scrutinizing eyes when in Cali...next time I'll stay at a hotel or in my house if I'm staying longer.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:23:

Accidents and hugs Right... I suppose I have a selective and romanticized memory: I was in so many accidents, one of them pretty bad. And, as you may guess, the guy that hit me had no insurance. I guess you have to take the good with the bad.

As for "the neverending touchy and huginess", even though I completely understand it, my guess is that it is actually one of those things that Colombian expats (including me) actually miss the most. A girl that I met here in the US used to push me back all the time because I kept hugging her, so what did I do? I convinced her of becoming my girlfriend, and now I can hug her all the time! We may be going to Bogota early next year, if so, I will take her through a hug fest!! (just kidding, I'll probably have to warn everyone to keep their distance).

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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santiBOG says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:27:

What irritates me This was taken from Soho (by Mauricio Silva). I agree with almost everything:

1. Lo obvio: el abominable, aborrecible, detestable, execrable e hijueputa tráfico que me desquicia y sistemáticamente me lleva a elaborar en mi cabeza la masacre ideal.
2. La ciudad en eterna obra.
3. El ridículo arribismo de propios y extraños que tuercen la trompa para ir a misa, pisar un teatro o "soplarse" una pizza.
4. Todos los jartos que abandonaron su tierrita, llegaron a la capital, estudiaron y trabajaron, para ahora hablar mal de Bogotá, hacer popó en ella y añorar a su Titiribí del alma (digo, solo por dar un ejemplo...).
5. El descaro con el que triunfó, triunfa y triunfará el cartel de los Sanandresitos.
6. La inseguridad tan macabra que tiene paranoica hasta la mafia de la policía.
7. Que le digan a cualquier lobería arquitectónica del barrio Rosales una "exclusiva residencia del norte de la capital".
8. La nueva arquitectura comercial que insiste en que esto es Miami y no una ciudad fría y sabanera.
9. Sí, Atlantis Plaza.
10. Una noche de cine en el Andino, por el sopor elitista que conlleva a una estúpida presión social (según dijo un famoso Samper).
11. El atraco a mano armada que representa comerse un maíz pira (no palomitas) con gaseosa en las salas de Cinemark y Cine Colombia.
12. Los falsos cachacos de programas de humor como Sábados felices, así como la doctora Urrutia, José Gabriel y todos aquellos que, arrastrando y ridiculizando el acento, hacen que a los bogotanos nos detesten con justa razón en el resto del país.
13. Hacer una vuelta en Bogotá, tipo sacar el RUT, sacar el carro de los patios o sacar el listado de cuentas de un predio. Perdón, cualquier vuelta en Bogotá es una mamera.
14. Millonarios y Santa Fe que, si se pudieran sumar los años del deshonor, juntos cumplirían 47 (30 los rojos y 17 los azules) de no hacer un reverendo culo.
15. El retorno de cualquier paseo, por cualquier vía, un domingo cualquiera.
16. Los 70 mil taxis y taxistas que nos someten a horror de "no tengo vueltas, ¿y qué?". Mafia criminal.
17. "Tener" que llevar a un gringo a Andrés Carne de Res, porque "toca", porque es "rechévere", "deli...", "supernuestro", "va gente relinda", cuando es otro atracadero del calibre de los Sanandresitos, Cinemark, Cine Colombia y los taxistas.
18. La desbordada concentración de sapos y lagartos.
19. La ciclovía con su tufillo "tropical" de manga sisa, aeróbico y salpicón.
20. El parqueadero de Unicentro, esa mole viviente crece imparable por alguna extraña radiación.
21. Que el paseo favorito de los fines de semana sea chupar helado en los centros comerciales, con tanto parque que hay.
22. Atlantis Plaza, otra vez (esta vez por sus helados).
23. Que ya no hay barrios.
24. Que ya no hay cines de barrio porque se los tomaron, primero los distribuidores porno (lo cual estaba más o menos) y ahora, los extorsionistas religiosos, que son tan solo comparables con los atracadores de los Sanandresitos, Cinemark, Cine Colombia, los taxistas y Andrés Carne de Res.
25. Todos los corruptos del país que ya se robaron sus municipios y departamentos y decidieron pasear sus gigantes traseros por los centros comerciales los fines de semana. ¡Cerdos!
26. La aberrante "escoltitis" (léase seis escoltas cada tres semáforos) y la desfachatez con la que amenazan, con la que se ufanan y con la que parquean donde se les da la reputa gana (a pesar de las leyes que se inventaron sus jefes).
27. Que tanto dueño de restaurante crea que el parque de la 93 es el Hyde Park de Londres y, por ende, cobre lo que equivale en libras esterlinas.
28. Que digan que un juguito de mandarina vale $9.000 con la excusa de que está "escasa" o que es "exótica", cuando aquí no más en Mesitas del Colegio se pudren en el suelo y por toneladas.
29. La invasión de celadores con rottweiler y otras bestias asesinas (hablo de los celadores).
30. Los transportadores de valores que nos amenazan con sus gigantes escopetas en la salida de los cajeros y supermercados.
31. La estafa cínica de los parqueaderos en general y de Parking, en particular, tan solo comparable con los atracadores de los Sanandresitos, Cinemark, Cine Colombia, los taxistas, Andrés Carne de Res y los extorsionistas religiosos.
32. La indiferencia de la guerra del bogotano que a los desplazados aún los llama "desechables".
33. El subdesarrollo que representa ir de frac a un concierto en el estadio El Campín, a un millón de pesos boleta y en silla Rimax. ¡Qué oso!
34. Mirar hacia los cerros en una tarde lluviosa y recordar que Jota Mario Valencia vive en esta misma ciudad.
35. El ruido sistemático de la ciudad que desquicia a mi novia y que, por la mañana, la pone como un tití.
36. Y sobre todo, lo que más detesto, es que ahora todo el mundo, por cuenta de una falsa "cheveridad", le dio por tutearlo a uno. Hasta mis primas.

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dwmte says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:36:

since i've lived over much of this planet.... the items herein listed--with the exception of the pain in the ass of das--are the same world over.

living in colombia, there's only one thing that really gets to me and i won't labor it or go into it, but it really sucks, big time. and that is the theft.

i swear, GOD must have loved ladrones, cause he made a shit-load of them in colombia...starting with the president and comin all the way down to your best friend or family member.

please don't tell me that there's 'theft' thieves' all over the world...we're not talking about all over the world, we're talking about what we dislike about colombia. and for me, theft is the biggest issue. it's like a national disease.

dw

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:50:

I always thought that you tertius were living in Colombia. Well, I can be wrong too...
Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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adrimm says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:51:

Tertius & dwmte & one more Tertius, yes I think that the touchy/huggy may be one of the things that separates expats from visitors. Colombians probably find some other cultures far too dry.

Dwmte Generally unruly children and a large proportion of un-insured drivers in *every single* part of the world... a rather sweeping statement dw.

Last one:
The tardiness. Ask someone to show at 12 and oops they're 45 minutes late.

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ColombianoX says on Apr 9, 2005, 16:54:

"I am much more used to thinking and speaking Spanish than I used to be but having to communicate in Spanish 24x7 used to get to me."

Utopia,
That's pretty funny because for me it's the opposite, here in the US having to speak english 24x7 every time I step out of my house gets to me sometimes.


Now, about the topic, something that really perturbs me when I go to Colombia is how some people assume I don't speak spanish when they find out I come from the USA, or they just assume that I must speak it poorly.

CX

ColombianoX 'Defensor de la Colombianidad'

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dwmte says on Apr 9, 2005, 17:07:

you lost me on that one, adrimm... i didn't talk about unruly children and/or uninsured drivers.

dw

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poco says on Apr 9, 2005, 17:56:

Hard to find items and Necessities Blueberry Bagels (maybe somewhere but they won’t be sliced)
Jiff Super Crunchy Peanut Butter (impossible)
Twinkies (never found any)
Rum Raisin Ice Cream (doubtful)
Wax toilet bowl rings (looked a lot)
Remote control electric shock dog collars (for the kids)

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 9, 2005, 18:11:

Desi In a way, I am. But every morning, for some strange reason, I keep waking up in Arizona.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 9, 2005, 18:33:

Unruly children and uninsured drivers - you don't have to go to Colombia for that - we've got loads of them right here. As for the language, at first I used to have a headache at the end of the day - I felt like Spanish was being pounded into my head. Maybe it was - I can be pretty thick. I was talking to my sister-in-law on the phone the other day and it was like a miracle - I could understand everything she was saying. I guess the pounding worked.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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hopeful says on Apr 9, 2005, 20:33:

Desi Can I ask you what you mean by "what will people think about you" mentality?

Do you mean because you are not Colombiano?

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 10, 2005, 06:16:

tertius, hopeful that was funny, tertius. Not only funny, but quite poignant and very descriptive, in one sentence.

hopeful,yes, in a way it's for me not being a Colombiana and not willing to be bothered with "what the neighbors will think about me" if I don't behave in a way that my elderly relatives consider appropriate for "a middle-aged lady of a good family." I think they are just too worried about appearances (see adri's item No.1) and think that the fact that I wear jeans and shorts with sandals and sneakers, a backback (a small one)instead of a ladies' purse, like to go out in the evenings with friends and stay up late occasionally will reflect negatively on their own reputation and social standing.
I'm tired and irritated at the raised eyebrows and condescending..."well, after all you're not a Colombiana" .

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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dwmte says on Apr 10, 2005, 07:01:

you're right desi... i get what my family thinks all the way up here in florida. but they've quieted down a lot over the years. they can see that there predilictions are all unfounded. they had their opinions and they've come to know after all these years that their feelings were RIGHT!! i am a bit wild and crazy...but i'm as reliable as they get.

remember, i'm an american...we're that way. maybe outta the ordinary sometimes, but reliable, for the most part. hell, if one tenth of the family in colombia was as reliable as me we'ld all be rich.

i don't change for them and don't expect them to change for me. i just live and let live. and for them, they find after years that maybe, just maybe there are other reliable opinions on this earth. you know, sometimes the colombians can be dyed in the wool in their feelings and attitudes...even when they're wrong.

dw

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 10, 2005, 07:17:

not too find a free public to not too find a public toilet with out having to buy something.

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viewpoint says on Apr 10, 2005, 07:42:

Most Irritating Thing After giving this matter considerable thought only one thing comes to mind and that is my own inability to communicate my thoughts to others because of my limited espanol language capabilities (fluency). It is extremely frustrating not to be completely fluent in the language of my resident country !!!.

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Lowell says on Apr 10, 2005, 08:04:

Irritated and theft I agree with the theft thing. Last Christmas, while I was staying with my wife's family, someone stole one of my mothers rings. The person had to enter our room, search it, as our jewelry was well stashed. The possible guilty person has been narrowed down to her sister or cousin.

I don't have many memories of my mother. The loss of this ring has really hurt me. For a while I had a pain in my gut about it.

My feelings have been damaged as a result. I don't feel that my wife has put up enough stink about it either.

These are people who I've helped very much. As far as I'm concerned, until the quilty person is caught (probably never) I'll never be able to look at these people the same way again. It will forever change the amount and way I help these people. Someone in the family has bitten the hand that is feeding them.

My wife wants us to move to Colombia in order to be near her family. I'm all for it. However, I'm not happy or comfortable with always having to be careful with family heirlooms or other items of value that I've worked very hard to save money for an buy.

Yes, I have a pension and yes I have a little (very little) money. I busted my butt for years and sacrificed my health to have it. It's a bunch of BS when someone thinks that they're intitled to my possessions!

LWA

Alfred E. Newman. "What. Me Worry?"

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 10, 2005, 10:04:

lowell I agree, nobody is entitled to your posessions, no matter how poor they are or where you are. Colombia is not an exception to that rule. I've had a few things stolen from me when I lived in Colombia and I wasn't happy about that either. Even if I knew who the thief was there wouldn't be any way to prove it so I never made an issue of it, but that person stopped working in my home after that.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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carter says on Apr 10, 2005, 11:57:

Trans milenio lines Why don't people wait for the the passengers to get off the transmilenio before squeezing to get on?

Why does the person behind you think that he deserves to get on before you?

On my latest visit to Bogota I noticed they had staff organising lines and bringing the elderly and woman with children to the front, But where Im from we learn this at primary school.

I have seen middle aged men push woman and children out of the way just to get a seat a head of them.

I also don't like how people think Im rich, I hate little rich kids from Bogota who spend a night trying to get drinks out of me by telling me they have no money then drive home in their car. I wish I could afford a car, but I'd probably be to scared to drive it.

I don't like the fact that people in this town think bad of me because I talk to everyone. My poor friends hassle me for spending time with the wealthy and the wealthy warn me constantly of genuinely really nice people just cause they are poor.

Despite all that I love this country

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adrimm says on Apr 10, 2005, 12:09:

Dwmte & "What will they think" & Theft Yes, I see that now, seems I misunderstood your post. Apologies!

UTC About the children and uninsured drivers, I guess it is the proportion. Compared to what I have seen among Colombians, parents I know here at home are generally more firm in what is considered appropriate sound volumes and activities.

On "what will they think", that falls under my category of "appearances". Not just the importance on how one/looks dresses, but the importance on how one acts. I am in wholehearted agreement with you on that one Desi.

My mother had heirloom Spanish coins left to her by her mother stolen by a niece or nephew. Despite being incencsed about it, she refuses to mention it at family gatherings, even casually - ie "The went missing". It hurts me becuase of the appearance of family unity and respect just seems deceptive, plus it has robbed us of the only tangible reminder we had of her.

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miamimike says on Apr 10, 2005, 12:28:

Ok OK Sit Down and I'll tell you a story.... But First, on my pet peeves on Colombia-invasion of my "personal Space" asking questions on if I am Married, have kids(if noy, Why not)How much $$$ I make per Hour. Don't people there in Colombia know we Northamericans all have a Dollar Tree or Two in our Bckyards and simply shake the "Tree" when we are in need of a few Bucks?? Mine only magically appears after I have worked 40-70 hrs a week for samo "Odd" reason(like the burning joshua tree in the dessert). ja ja. Napkins in the Restaurants-Why do they give those postage stamp sized ones and then only one? Give me a Break!!!! Water-always have to ask for a glass of water with my meal.

Best of All-while I personally never had a probelm with theivery in Colombia my Buddy did. Before a visitor arrived to his apartment--he Hid all his Gold Jewelry in a over a vent register in his Bedroom. After his female visitor arrived, he headed out to the store to buy something and left her alone. After he came back and they had the visit-next day he went to get his Jewelry--rings, watch,chains ect. Man-in that short time likew 15 minutes-she went trhough the room and found his Stash of Jewels hidden in the celing vent. She was a Pro! She left the Cheap imatation jewelry and took all the 14k and 18k gold and left the junk jewelry . She was an operator. He never found or saw her again.So Called Professional woman. Caveat Emptor.

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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miamimike says on Apr 10, 2005, 12:36:

On Thieves.. Honestly, I have seen many more of my fellow americans(and worse, even my own family)much more guilty of this shortcoming then I have ever seen any Colombian in MY personal experience. Was I lucky? Or do I have honest friends and good judgement?. I like to beleive the latter.It really hurts when the thievery is perpetrated by a family member, whatever the nationality may be.

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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dwmte says on Apr 10, 2005, 12:52:

heh, mike.... is that ditto?

i know what you mean...when it's someone in the family, it's not just a pain in the ass and in the heart, it's something in the stomach as well. then later, you have to sit, visit, be around these folks forever, in the bargain. sucks.

sure we have plenty of thieves here in the good ole usa, but we're speaking on our druthers in colombia. and theft there goes from the president to the common joe in the street. i guess they feel since tht politicians can loot the country, why shouldn't they loot whatever, whenever they can? at least it's logical. but it sure does suck.

my neighbor in poblado...rich ass hole...stole my sony handy cam. can you believe it...what a dick. my brother in law said i should 'whack' him. for a camera i asked? nah, i aint gonna 'whack' somebody for a damn camera. but the guy was so paranoid after that, cause he didn't know when the payback was coming. so for over two years, he lived on pins and needles wondering what i had planned for him. i guess, like pres. bush says, all options are STILL on the table.

dw

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carter says on Apr 10, 2005, 12:53:

Miamimike What is the problem with people asking about your family and work?When you meet people from a country you know little about aren´t you interested in their culture and day to day life.

When I meet someone from another country Im always interested in what they do, how they spend there time. Some people find the value of the dollar and the cost of living interesting because they would like to visit.

When someone asks me these questions I like it, It shows they have a genuine interest in where Im from and what I do. Maybe it is not part of US cuture to ask questions to people about where they are from and this may be one of the reasons for the US ignorance of other cultures (not all Americans)

They also ask these questions because they are one of the first questions you learn in English class and one of the first q's I learnt in Spanish class. Therefore if there is a language difficulty it may be the only thing you can talk about. Most of the time they are just being friendly and opening up conversation.

Just so I don't get a stupid post saying that everyone doing this is lining you up to kidnap you, this is possible but highly unlikely.

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miamimike says on Apr 10, 2005, 13:11:

On Personal Questions... If someone ask a question on a family/personal matter i have NO problem answering with a simple yes/no--the problem I have is when I am put into the corner defending my choice or answer. Like why I do NOT have children is a very personal consideration and something not lent to explaining in a casual conversation with a person whom I've just been introduced to. Guess its how you were brought up-in my family, we were taught not to ask or discuss personal matters such as religion, politics, wages.So each time I am asked the question, it is a simple yes/no and no farther explanation. I accord the same person this same courtesy and never pry into their what I feel is their personal domain.

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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poco says on Apr 10, 2005, 16:22:

Not my experience about problems I’ll assume a rural farming town is much different than the cities.

The enjoyment of Colombia would be greatly diminished if some of complaints posted had happened to me.

No one has asked me anything about money, personal matters, religion or politics. They must be curious since I’m the only American living in the town and only a handful English speaking people have been in town for more a day. The only way imaginable to have this happen is for me to bring up the subject or ask them a question. Been this way for over 3 years and 18 months in country.

I’ve been invited to “speak” for a private English class. The professor required the class of 12 or so people to ask questions in English and listen to replies in English. I’ve done this twice, one hour each time and no one asked anything I’d consider personal.

The most memorable question was “What do I like about Colombia”.. Thought about it and said “Chusos with an arepa on top”. It was like I’d told a joke they understood.

Peanut Butter is not only double the cost but the only thing I've found for sale is Peter Pan Smooth. The other brands are "nasty" tasting.

"When you men get home and face an anti-war protester, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend, because she knows she's dating a pussy." Quote - General Tommy Franks

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 10, 2005, 16:30:

I agree. I don't find Colombians nosey at all. It's a lot more likely I am going to have some bozo here asking me something he/she shouldn't than in Colombia. As for the unruly children and uninsured drivers, you must not have spent any time in Texas. We got 'em both by the boatload. In fact chances are if you get in an accident the other guy is not going to have insurance.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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stevens says on Apr 10, 2005, 18:27:

Bolero, etc. Puhleeeeze. If you want to see great Latin art, go to Mexico. The city of Oaxaca has dozens of artists with more inspiration.
But more importantly, something that bugs me is the ignorance about Asia. When I say I live in Japan or that I like Thailand, the most common response is to pin their eyes back to make squinty eyes, and they say ooh, los chinos will eat anything. No, they won't. Thai and Japanese cuisine are two of the best in the world, better than Colombia's, although Colombia's isn't bad. And it's the Chinese that will eat anything, not the Japanese or Thais. Mind you, it's the same response as in Central America, but it's just so ignorant. I guess I'm sensitive to that because my nationality is accused of that so often (American).
Also, at first, I was pleased to find so much national and local pride in Colombia, but when they adamantly say that Colombia is 'better' than some country they know nothing about, it gets old fast. (Except Argentina - they seem to have a healthy admiration for that country.)

In my month in Medellin I made friends with an older man who said I could stay at his exwife's apartment. Of course it was understood that I would pay, but I had to back out when I found out they were expecting 50,000 a night. Even in Poblado I think that's too much and I felt used. I found a room in another nice apartment with a couple other foreigners for half that that was closer to Parque Lleras.

I try to treat people individually and not assume, but as a foreigner in Colombia I sometimes got, "Oh, you think that way because you are a gringo." Actually that's probably more true than I care to admit and is a very threatening concept for some people because we all like to think we are the way we are because of the choices we've made in life. It's also something I like about traveling - being confronted with this and being made to think about who the hell I am.

Gringas are sluts - Come on, if a Colombiano has three girlfriends and one of them is married, what does that make

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miamimike says on Apr 11, 2005, 10:19:

Carter--A friend of mine was... Hospitalized last year as she attempted to exit the Transmilenio bus last year. She was litterally trampled by incoming rush of people-lost her balance falling forward on the ground out of the bus. She is in her mid 60s and afterwards it looked like she was worked over by Mike Tyson. She landed on her face; from the nose up her face was all black and blue, her eyes swollen shut, her chin abraded, knee screwed messed up. Give me a break, how about some courtesy?

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Sr Tertius says on Apr 11, 2005, 10:46:

The buseta mentality Miami: I've seen that happening, when I rode TM with my mother and grandmother, I had to turn into a freaking bodyguard. Amazing. I think many bogotanos haven't lost their buseta mentality. I remember those days: it was everyone for him/herself. I hope that, with a bit of civic education, people will start behaving better.

"When the finger points to the moon, the fool looks at the finger" (Chinese proverb)

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william_andrew_channell says on Apr 11, 2005, 10:49:

Poco wrote: "Hard to find items and Necessities - Rum Raisin Ice Cream (doubtful)"

Where do you eat ice cream??? That is one of the most popular flavors in Colombia. I had never even seen it until I came here. You don't find Rum Raisin Ice Cream in the US. Or at least I never saw it.

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william_andrew_channell says on Apr 11, 2005, 11:02:

I would have to agree with everybody that the most irritating thing is the waiting in line/Transmilenio/interrupting when you are ordering thing. I have also noticed that they tend to be women the ones that are most impatient. The best thing that I have found to do in these situations is simply turn, look at the person and tell them exactly what you are thinking. One time, I was at KFC ordering some food and while I was in the middle of ordering, another woman just came up and started asking the cashier questions like I wasn't even there. All I could do was ask her very calmly, ¿Señora, Ud. es ciega, bruta o simplemente no sabe hacer fila?" She gave me a bad look and shut up. I prefer to be direct, and as for getting off the Transmi, I prefer just to run right into anybody that gets in my way when I'm getting off. Just give them a good elbow and if they react, just say, "Dejen salir, que el bus no se va hasta que Uds se suban."

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 11, 2005, 11:28:

hard choices for a person getting from one place to another...no-rear end taxis driven by maniatics, getting stampeded to death if you travel by the transmilenio, crashed into by uninsured drivers if you drive your own car, getting mugged if you're using your dodge patas; in my very humble opinion none of them are typically Colombian phenomena...irritating yes, but not typically Colombian irritating.

Cheers,
Desi
(no need to be unpolite to people... just get their respect by adressing the issue directly)

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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elmodefoque says on Apr 11, 2005, 11:57:

What I find most irritating is when I’m drinking and dancing with a fine señorita dying to get her back to my hotel room to do all kinds of crazy stuff and she decides to go home instead. damnn!!!

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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Tinto (Moderator) says on Apr 11, 2005, 12:09:

Civic education? Haha When I was a little nipper, I learned manners from my parents.



In addition, I attended a short course called "Safety Town." It was great fun. We had little metal push-petal cars and drove around city streets painted on a playground. We had stop signs and functioning traffic lights. We learned about the pedestrian right-of-way, how to cross the street and what to do when we heard and saw a police car or fire truck.



Maybe the Colombian govt could put on a massive "Safety Town" and buy 44 million copies of the book "All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten." ;-)

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 11, 2005, 12:32:

tinto, I know it was meant as a joke ( All I Really Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten." ;-) but you weren't really that far off the target on that one. One of the things kids learn every day at the kindergarten is how to stand in line, how to leave your place and later return to it with the permission of the kid standing right behind you. Good manners are learned early in life.

Mario, any tips about how to drive in Florence? I'll be heading that way very soon and will rent a car but have never been in Italy before.

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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carter says on Apr 11, 2005, 13:47:

Mmike Im suprised no one has been seriously injured getting on the Trans milenio

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Cerealkiller says on Apr 12, 2005, 06:13:

It is a pain indeed Transmilenio is just horrible, but ordinary buses can be the worst thing ever, an absolute nightmare if you ask me. However, driving behind, in front or by a bus can actually drive you mad...I dont think they know people are constantly getting in and out of it, so they just drive on the fast lanes and leave people there to cross the freaking street, I've been close to running over a couple already.
Now customs when you get to Bogota after a 10 hour flight...there must be something like 12 windows, but only 3 or 4 people working and they often stop to ask the other something stupid about Rosita or whatever. (Same applies to Banks, Cade and supermarkets...go figure.)
And the "appearances" thing is quite accurate, for some reason people here (and it happens everywhere but its quite obvious here) think that the more they have the better they are...as if posessions could ever make someone a lot more interesting. Just KEEP IT SIMPLE!!! I like it here, dont get me wrong, but if I could change those things I'd be happier :)

Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives -John Stuart Mill

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elmodefoque says on Apr 12, 2005, 06:21:

this really pisses me off and i'm always a happy jolly fellow.
they never have any change.

PROUD ENEMY OF THE RIGHT WING!!!!!! THANK YOU!

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miamimike says on Apr 12, 2005, 07:27:

Line Hogging... really burns me also. I see this a LOT here in Miami as well as in Colombia --people attempting to cut in front of eveyone like they are the center of the Universe.When it happens now I also speak up asking the perpetrator if they think I am standing here for my health and aren't they aware the Que starts like back there behind the last person. These folks do NOT understand courtesy only a steely stare and hard words.

My Avatar-- Sarah Palin Says " "You know the difference between a pit bull and a hockey mom?? Lipstick!" Now on a Short Verbal Tether by the Honorable John McCain

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Desideria (Moderator) says on Apr 12, 2005, 08:20:

Mario, thank you for your excellent driving/wine tips in Florence. Now, it looks like we're flying to Milano instead and driving to Verona from there, then try to get to Venice from the hotel in Verona.

For me, asking nicely has always worked when people have been cutting in lines in Colombia. It also works when there are more than 10 people yelling "cola"...

Cheers,
Desi

"When shall we three meet again? In thunder, lightning, or in rain?"(First Witch in Macbeth)

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kat1 (Moderator) says on Apr 12, 2005, 08:32:

Talk about people ignoring queues well look at the French and Swiss they do not know what is a line, I just came back from skiing and the French don't do queues they just jump in front of you ignoring everything in their path, The only good thing is when they jump in front of you. just to undo one of their skis so they ended up going up the lift with one ski, which is no good. ;-)
they said that the only ones to do queues are the British.

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brunito says on Apr 12, 2005, 08:37:

What drives me crazy 1-)Getting conned into taking a bus between Santa Marta and Cartagena that is supposedly fast and direct and ends up doing the milk run and stopping at villages that I've never seen before (not that I minded that but I did want to get back early at Portofino that time).

2-)Getting in a taxi which door hangs by chicken wire to the body of the car. And in front of the De Cameron on top of that!

3-) Getting in a taxi in Pie de la Popa at 10PM, have a blown tire in a barrio in bewteen Pie de la Popa and Bocagrande with wich I'm not familliar...

4-) Getting in a taxi with my groceries for the stay (having arrived previous night) at the exit of the Olimpica on San Martin in front of the Naval Base and the driver having car problems within 2 blocks and having to change taxis and mode the grocerie bags.

5-) Taking a 3 days 2 nights package for me and my novia in San Andres, leaving Cartagena Airport at 10AM on Sunday Morning, arriving at San Luis deCameron at 1PM and having access to room at 4PM in order to change and enjoy the pool that closes at 4:30PM...

6-)On same trip, the third day fo the 3 days 2 nights package involves getting out of the room by 8AM and to be at the airport by 10AM...

I must be maso or something

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brunito says on Apr 12, 2005, 08:38:

double post sorry

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utopiacowboy says on Apr 12, 2005, 12:02:

Brunito, dude, those things are normal life.

Disclaimer: any comment I make is inane and is not to be taken seriously, and is so patently ridiculous that no one should take it seriously, even as an insult.

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Veronica22 says on Apr 14, 2005, 04:27:

time no concept of time. you wanna meet someone at 3:00 and they arrive at 4:00....the next day.

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Veronica22 says on Apr 14, 2005, 04:29:

bus from hell i also hate trans milenio. its a nightmare. i got on one and some army guy got his rucksack stuck in the door...the whole bus was laughing. also boys whistling at you down the street, and perverted men.yuck.

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